saba vs. australia

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From what I've gathered by reading the various forums is the the Caribbean is a good bet if your pirmary goal is returning to the US. Since you get multiple USMLE practice (integrated into the curriculum) as well as US based clinical rotations you have a good chance at making contacts and getting excellent reference letters.

Can't comment on Polish schools.

Australian schools however will not give you USMLE practice, and though the curriculum will definitely be adequate preparation for the USMLE, you will still have to study for it on your own. The only reason why I would suggest an Australian school to anyone would be the safety net of not being stranded if you don't get a US match, because you can work here until you do, or choose to stay here permenantly. With the Caribbean, I don't think it would be easy to work anywhere but the US.

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Saba has a pretty low attrition rate for a Caribbean school according to the California medical board, many of these schools are for profit and pretty much take anyone who can pay their fees, which are extremely expensive. If I had the choice between the two, and I did, I would pick Australia, but not everyone here has the maturity to move to the other side of the planet.

Australian schools take students who are qualified academically to handle the program, and attrition in Australia is low, meaning few students are kicked out. There was a misconception on another board that Australian schools are out to make money, not quite, they get enough applicants. I do think British medical schools tend to be far more selective in my experience.

While it has gotten easier to stay in Australia over the past few years, I recall they used to make international students sign a declaration that they would leave Australia once finished, it still requires some flexibility. The system allows you to stay if you are willing to go to an area of need. I think students in other health care fields have fewer obstacles to staying compared to those in Medicine. Nursing students in my experience have an easy time getting PR through the regular route. Dental students also do not have any real issues with getting PR through the skilled migrant program. To be considered a qualified physician in Australia, you need to complete an internship year, so that you can apply for PR but the double edge sword is that you need PR or be sponsored to get that internship spot. Its hard for students at USyd and Melbourne to stay after graduation but a new school in Wollongong which is an hour outside of Sydney claims that students can stay for an internship year. Still the best chances would be in places like Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, and WA.
 
Which is why I've been counselling people to go to schools where getting an internship position is a lot easier - ie WA, Tas, or (currently) Adelaide.

The problem is that people aren't willing to give up the comforts of big city living, and are willing to risk their future professional careers, and students loans for it.
 
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Queensland has a lot of spots as well, but with Griffith, Bond, and JCU, things might change. UOW says that internationals could complete an internship year in NSW.
 
Not actually in Brisbane though - even locals couldn't get those positions. However Logan is only 15 minutes from the CBD but isn't considered part of the Brisbane network - some people got spots like that. Redcliffe is also part of the train network and only about 30 mins out of the city, even though it's only a town of 50 000. So if you know where to apply Queensland is definitely not out of the question either. Townsville was open to anyone with a pulse (this year).
 
how feasible it is to get your PR while studying, if you have a professional degree as an undergrad?
 
heya everyone .
well i am confused which school i want to choose i am doing my BS in Biology in USA and later on want to do my MD i have the options for Poland and Carib but i was wondering is Australia is a better option. I am a american citizen , and well would return to USA so is it better for me to go to a Oz school rather than a Carib or Polish ?

thanks


if you want to come back to the states, you're better off exhausting all your options here first. USA MD, USA DO. before carib
 
Try US MD and DO schools before applying to programs in foreign countries, especially if you plan to stay in the US. Residency matches for IMGs is starting to get extremely difficult.
 
Hey guys...wow this is a really interesting conversation going on, however im assuming that ur talking about doing med school after ur undergrad rite...actualli im currently in high school and i wanted to do the 6 or 7 yr medicine program, either in Australia, Caribbean or Ireland .... but i dunno if it is the right step to do medicine right after high school...any suggestions are appreciated
 
Hey guys...wow this is a really interesting conversation going on, however im assuming that ur talking about doing med school after ur undergrad rite...actualli im currently in high school and i wanted to do the 6 or 7 yr medicine program, either in Australia, Caribbean or Ireland .... but i dunno if it is the right step to do medicine right after high school...any suggestions are appreciated

Depends on whether or not you're really sure that is what you want to do. Remember Ireland and Australia are used to having undergraduate medical courses, and it's only been a fairly recent thing for them to open up post graduate medical schools.

Most of these people will be around the same age as you, and so you won't feel out of place.
 
Another thing to note is that Caribbean schools have high rates of attrition, most Australian schools generally have lower attrition rates, I think this is due to the fact that Australian schools are more selective in taking applicants. You need a decent MCAT to have a chance of getting into a Grad Entry program in Australia, whereas Caribbean schools take people who will never become doctors.
 
Australia: Practice in US, UK, EU, OZ, NZ, Singapore, Dubai, Malaysia, etc, etc. Access to great GME in Australia, and a leg up in America c/w carib grads.

SABA: Not one of the "big three" of carib. Additionally, not recognized by OZ or UK. Limited GME opportunities within the US, with a drop-behind OZ grads.

It's a NO BRAINER, folks.
 
Schools like Saba admit people knowing that many of them will never become physicians because they will get kicked out. I would have to agree with the last poster, Australian trained doctors can work in a lot more countries, and I do feel Caribbean graduates will experience a stigma that would affect them in searching for a US residency, even though, you still have to show you are better than a US graduate to match into same residency.
 
I am making this post because I'm SICK of the comparison between Australian and Caribbean Medical Schools.

It's a no brainer as a poster mentioned before. I'm going to do a comparison between Ross and University of Queensland because my friend goes to Ross and I got offered a position in UQ in Brisbane, Australia. Thus, I'm more familiar with the situation.

Ross just has a medical school and vet school. No supporting faculties. Ross is not internationally recognized at all. UQ has a law school, undergrad, excellent research facilities, is in a beautiful city (often ranked as one of the best places to live in the world), excellent hospitals (such as Royal Brisbane Hospital and Royal Brisbane Children's Hospital), many distinguished professors.

UQ is ranked as by Newsweek Magazine as one of the top 100 universities in the world. Australia is a developed country which, unlike say Ireland or the UK, is very welcoming of immigrants.

People mention the 10 year moratorium (which I hear can be lessened to 1 year). That includes working in a remote area. So what. What makes you think that if you got into medical school in the USA or Canada you won't be working in a remote area? Nice cities are extremely competitive to find work no matter which country you're in. Several of the people I know now who graduated from medical schools in Canada cannot find work except in remote areas. Salaries in Alberta are very high for doctors now. My dad is a doctor in Calgary, and last year, 2 Harvard Medical School graduates applied for positions in his department and the Canadian medical school residents were told: "there's no chance in hell you'll stay. Look for work in Red Deer and Lethbridge." The department chair only interviewed the 2 Harvard graduates.

You are responsible for your own happiness so make decisions wisely. Honestly, there's something about the Caribbean Medical Schools that are so shaddy. I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. I'd do pharmacy school or something.

Australian cities of Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, & Perth beats all the cities in North America in terms of living conditions except for maybe San Francisco, Vancouver, and Toronto, and maybe Montreal (if you don't mind the cold weather in Canada). Honestly, if you take the weather into consideration, only San Francisco is the peer.
 
People mention the 10 year moratorium (which I hear can be lessened to 1 year). That includes working in a remote area. So what. What makes you think that if you got into medical school in the USA or Canada you won't be working in a remote area? Nice cities are extremely competitive to find work no matter which country you're in. Several of the people I know now who graduated from medical schools in Canada cannot find work except in remote areas. Salaries in Alberta are very high for doctors now. My dad is a doctor in Calgary, and last year, 2 Harvard Medical School graduates applied for positions in his department and the Canadian medical school residents were told: "there's no chance in hell you'll stay. Look for work in Red Deer and Lethbridge." The department chair only interviewed the 2 Harvard graduates.

You are responsible for your own happiness so make decisions wisely. Honestly, there's something about the Caribbean Medical Schools that are so shaddy. I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. I'd do pharmacy school or something.

Australian cities of Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, & Perth beats all the cities in North America in terms of living conditions except for maybe San Francisco, Vancouver, and Toronto, and maybe Montreal (if you don't mind the cold weather in Canada). Honestly, if you take the weather into consideration, only San Francisco is the peer.

In regards to the 10 year moratorium - I've done extensive research on this, and even if you are unable to reduce this to less then 10 years there are a few points to keep in mind.

0) If your aim is to work in Canada, then keep in mind many provinces now have rural contracts (RoS), especially if you get a 2nd round match in CaRMs with most being 1:1. So for every 1 year of training you must commit to 1 year of RoS. This can be as "little" as 2 years for FM, but >5 years for speciality training. Even returning to a province may require a "rural" contract, there are some provinces that do not require this currently, but I'll leave that for you to find out.

1) This is from the time you first get your PR or are first registered (even conditionally)

2) Hospitals are exempt from the 10 year moratorium. Hospital based salaries are actually as good if not better then private practise salaries in Canada, especially at the consultant level. All insurance is covered, and you get perks such as cars, laptops, travel expenses and conferences paid. Private practise is typically used to supplement salaries, but it can also be done 100% and often pays more but has it's own drawbacks

3) All of your training is counted in the 10 year moratorium, and for most speciality training this is at least 5 years.

4) I spoke to the Department of Health & Aging and was told that they are in negotiations with the current govt to reduce this for graduates of Australian medical schools. They were in the same process with the previous govt, but because of the change they now have to renegotiate the deal. I have contact details but for obvious reasons will not post them here.

5) If you would like to undergo private practise within the scope of your moratorium you can practise in Districts of Workforce Shortages, and not just rural areas. Again there is a website you can use to search for these areas (and some are quite large cities) but I'll leave that up to you to find.

6) Doing training in rural areas attracts significant govt incentives as well as tax breaks, currently these incentives are only offered in Canada for people willing to practise in these areas, and not for people undergoing residencies in these areas.

Finally in regards to North America vs. Australia lifestyle is also an important factor. Training programs in NA are generally more poorly paid and have worse working conditions. That generally holds true for consultancy jobs as well, though of course there are exceptions. In Australia in general, for many doctors lifestyle options are better.

This however does not mean one choice is better then the other, and of course there are disadvantages in both systems. However if you choose to come to Australia for medical school, there is a possibility that you may not match in Canada or the US (more specifically Canada). You should thus understand the possible implications of this and make your decision knowing all the facts/possibilities.
 
Finally in regards to North America vs. Australia lifestyle is also an important factor. Training programs in NA are generally more poorly paid and have worse working conditions. That generally holds true for consultancy jobs as well, though of course there are exceptions. In Australia in general, for many doctors lifestyle options are better.

This however does not mean one choice is better then the other, and of course there are disadvantages in both systems. However if you choose to come to Australia for medical school, there is a possibility that you may not match in Canada or the US (more specifically Canada). You should thus understand the possible implications of this and make your decision knowing all the facts/possibilities.

I chose Australia knowing full well I may never practice in North America. However, I can still be a doctor in Australia for certain. Australia is a great country to live in as well. My parents immigrated to Canada and Canada isn't really my home country either. Any country that offers good opportunities & that is a developed country is my home (Australia is also great b/c it's an English speaking one). Some of the desperation for returning to North America is baffling to me.

However, I'm sure there are many Caribbean medical school students who can never match into Canada or the USA. These statistics probably aren't been shown by the Caribbean medical schools. So they'll never become doctors.
 
Australia is very open and welcoming place, something that does not exist in most places in the world. Australian programs are often compared to those in the Caribbean because there are many North Americans on this board and many pick both as alternatives to North American schools.

Australian cities pretty much beat all US cities in terms quality of life, Brisbane, Sydney, and Melbourne always rank in the top 25 in the world. San Francisco never makes it up that high, I used to live there, its nice...if you have a lot of money.

If the USA is really so great, why is there such a melancholy mood over there??? I have been looking at the election news, and there is a very dark mood regarding things with most Americans very worried about the direction of life in the US.
 
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