RO Orals posptoned due to coronavirus

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Another review course (UMMS) also postponed indefinitely following the ABR date change. Lost $200 on the hotel reservation.

Thanks, ABR!

It’s not the ABR fault tho.

I think some of you are still ignoring how many other things have been and will be cancelled.

I would hope that hotels would waive penalty fees. I had to cancel an international vacation and I didn’t have to pay penalty fees. The airline companies are being okay about it because it’s a global crisis

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It’s not the ABR fault tho.

I think some of you are still ignoring how many other things have been and will be cancelled.

I would hope that hotels would waive penalty fees. I had to cancel an international vacation and I didn’t have to pay penalty fees. The airline companies are being okay about it because it’s a global crisis

Anesthesiology finished boards today. Why didnt they postpone? They know more about the flu than us.

Is Step 2CS being postponed? People take CS in different cities.

Any other oral boards being postponed?

Why do you want to hump the ABR so badly? What is it with you? Do they have you on some love potion?
 
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They have a particular worldview based on their decades, I mean minutes spent in this field. Everyone who disagrees with them hates the field and doesn’t wNt it to get better. Oh, and The ABR is Awesome and jobs abound!!

Anesthesiology finished boards today. Why didnt they postpone? They know more about the flu than us.

Is Step 2CS being postponed? People take CS in different cities.

Any other oral boards being postponed?

Why do you want to hump the ABR so badly? What is it with you? Do they have you on some love potion?
 
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Anesthesiology finished boards today. Why didnt they postpone? They know more about the flu than us.

Is Step 2CS being postponed? People take CS in different cities.

Any other oral boards being postponed?

Why do you want to hump the ABR so badly? What is it with you? Do they have you on some love potion?


This is like the first time you’ll ever catch me ‘defending’ the ABR. I’m just a realist. I don’t know where you guys work but if you don’t know yet you willl know this coming week. Travel Bans are real.
 
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ESTRO 2020: 3.-7. April in Vienna, Austria has not been cancelled yet.

Maybe if it doesn't get cancelled, we will end up being short on radiation oncologists in Europe afterwards due to many participants getting infected.

Perhaps that will take off some pressure from the US job market? :nod: :nod: :nod:
 
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I think it will surely get cancelled. But yeah have been watching that as well. A couple of Physics conferences were cancelled this week. I think ESTRO is the big one to fall, but let’s see.

Also closely watching ASCO, but that’s still two Months away
 
Precisely. When something rare walks into my clinic, I will consult a reference rather than rely on my memory and limited experience and make sure I'm doing it right and do a literature search to make sure I'm up-to-date. For run-of-the-mill prostate, breast, lung, most GI stuff, etc, I can do a chart review in 5 minutes and know what my plan's going to be, and can contour and review the plan without referencing anything.

But because I might not be able to whip out a pediatric DIPG re-irradiation plan off the top of my head, am I incompetent? Or even gray areas in breast, such as do I treat nodes with a couple of risk factors or not. I'm doing a literature search on that sometimes and looking for new data.

If this exam did what it's supposed to do, all of us competent physicians should just walk in, be presented with a case, given the tools and resources we normally have to generate a plan, such as reference books and the internet, and then present our plan (you know, what we do in our actual jobs). Instead, we play this game where we spend months cramming to memorize scripts and spit out specific case scenarios in a matter of seconds. Why not test us to see how we actually practice? Isn't that the point of the exam?
Agree 100%, man.
Could not have said it better.
 
Stinks on boards for sure, and then some. My support to all those who are effected.
The travel bans and the hysteria though is getting ridiculous. This is a new virus and new is scary, but realistically the window to contain is already done and the vast, vast, vast majority of infections are mild. There’s community spread in NYC, which is still allowing international flights btw, and the utility of a travel ban to any destination, with those facts in mind, is almost absurd. It has been circulating in the US for weeks probably.
 
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I'm scheduled to go to the ASTRO refresher but apparently it's still happening as planned which is very surprising. Anybody have any scoop on when we should know to hear from them regarding either rescheduling or cancelling the conference? I would assume this would also be cancelled.
 
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Stinks on boards for sure, and then some. My support to all those who are effected.
The travel bans and the hysteria though is getting ridiculous. This is a new virus and new is scary, but realistically the window to contain is already done and the vast, vast, vast majority of infections are mild. There’s community spread in NYC, which is still allowing international flights btw, and the utility of a travel ban to any destination, with those facts in mind, is almost absurd. It has been circulating in the US for weeks probably.

I'll start by saying I'm no great fan of the ABR. I was caught up in the great rad bio debacle of 2018. To say I'm frustrated with the postponement of oral boards this year would be quite the understatement. I've been counting the days until certification is behind me. My family has been through a lot (which is to say while this whole process has been a real struggle for me, it has also been a heavy burden for my family). I've (we've) sacrificed so much time we can never get back, and now it looks like we'll continue to have this hanging over us all for the foreseeable future. It sucks. I don't have any more eloquent way to express that. But this time, I really don't think it's fair to blame the ABR. How can you give a face to face exam when your examiners have been banned from traveling to the exam location? Same goes for examinees who happen to work at some of those same institutions with travel bans implemented.

I agree this seems like a great opportunity for the ABR to re-assess its process for board certification, including consolidation of the exams to some extent, alternatives to an oral boards portion (whether that's web-based one on one exams, transition to a computer based certification, or more testing sites and dates similar to Step 2 CS). I don't think those major changes are likely to happen for this class of examinees, however.

In response to travel bans, while I agree the window of opportunity for containment has almost certainly passed, travel bans, social distancing, etc. are not ridiculous. In order to decrease the risk of collapse of our critical care units (and hospitals in general) and thereby minimize deaths, "flattening out the curve" is indeed a critical component of the public health response. Major healthcare systems have an eye on not only participating in recommendations by public health authorities, but protecting their employees and protecting their ability to respond to the healthcare needs of the people who will need their hospitals and clinics as this virus continues to spread.

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I don’t buy all the excuses for the ABR. Do it over Skype or Teams or any other number of technologies. It’s not like this is 1992. The logistics would not be so hard to put together. These residents have been through enough. Delaying this is terrible.
 
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Does anybody know for sure if ASTRO refresher is still on...
 
Gonna go out on a limb and say the elder scrolls of the abr (boomers) are pretty limited in their risk allowance, being that they have been cruisin for so long. The slightest bit of real life risk seems to push them over the edge.
 
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I emailed them Friday and they said it was on. But we’ll see what happens...


Guess they want to hold out on losing any money until the very last minute. Needless to say, I cancelled my trip and will hopefully be getting a refund if they decide to cancel. Maybe if they see more people pulling out (no pun intended), they’ll let people know sooner. I’m a solo doc so I need as much time to plan as I can get. I like New Orleans but a virtual meeting would suffice for me.
 
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Interesting

 
Not sure if you have the refresher Agenda - but If any of the Refresher speakers are from one of the major institutions that have already restricted travel, that will tell you your answer
 
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I'll start by saying I'm no great fan of the ABR..... truncated for length not content revision

I agree and disagree and will try and keep this to the exam at hand. The WHO stated travel bans don't work. The CDC has not made any statement on travel restrictions. The numbers in one Chinese area are going down at the cost of what? Massive social disruption, real deaths from a hotel collapse, and it is not even clear if the numbers are going down due to lack of testing in other cities (as reported by media, I cannot verify this obviously). This is out of the bag in terms of community spread in multiple large North American cities with highly connected public transport networks and population density.

Social distancing, restricting travel for at risk individuals, of course to slow is a good idea. Limiting travel to hotspots - good idea. But all hallmarks thus far are that this transmits like the flu or a cold - quickly and easily. Previous CDC comments stated a vaccine will take about 8 months to fully develop, trial, and vet. Do we shut down things for 8 months?

Taking large outdoor recreational public gatherings and canceling them makes sense. Temporarily cancelling an important and population limited oral board examination, to allow physicians which ABR and ASTRO and ACGME and Medicare payments etc state are so needed for our health system we have to keep pumping them out, to me is not a wise use of targeting restricted population movement. It's the Chinese approach versus the Hong Kong approach. And if the reality is that institutional travel protocols will keep examiners from being present - then reach out to Pearson or one of the many other testing facilities ubiquitous across the country and arrange for remote mock orals in a certified testing environment. These facilities have oral testing rooms. It's not to hate on the ABR, they have a difficult situation, but this exam is the biggest event in the training of people who put 9 years in, and all of the powers that be insist we need all these new graduates to service the market need, so how can a remote solution to keep this on track in this day and age not be implemented? And if the can is kicked to the Fall, when CDC projections suggest no vaccine will be ready and it is again cold and flu season, did this accomplish anything?

Putting patient's at harm through exposure to the virus must be avoided. But so should allowing practicing physicians who are not competent to keep practicing. And out of all the exams, acknowledging the terrible experience oral board studying can be with a clinical load, this is really the only meaningful exam to assess competence in practice.
 
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But so should allowing practicing physicians who are not competent to keep practicing.

if one fails or conditions the boards, even, after several attempts, they can keep practicIng. I believe after maybe 6 attempts one would have to practice under supervision but could keep practicing. If the ABR can’t get examiners to get there the exam simply can’t happen. It’s easy to suggest here, or on twitter, to make the exam a virtual exam but does anybody really know what it takes to get that done in a couple of months ? An exam is not like a conference where you just need a camera and secure web feed. Pearson or one of their competitors isn’t going to find a solution in 2 months. The ABR sucks, is mismanaged, represents a monopoly (outside of ABRO), and pays their leadership exorbitantly with our dues. But a bigger failure than delaying the boards would be exposing a bunch of physicians, who primarily care for elderly and often immunocompromised patients, with a pandemic virus.
 
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For what it’s worth, the ophthalmology oral boards were also just cancelled. It’s not just the ABR.
 
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For what it’s worth, the ophthalmology oral boards were also just cancelled. It’s not just the ABR.
It's worth a lot!

Sucks for us, but damn theirs was like next week and just got notification. I would be super pissed off. But I hope this is also an impetus for them to get rid of orals that require you flying out to another city.
 
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ABR should still provide some sort of financial incentive to us - either waive board fees year after certification or something. Airline cancellation policies be damned, people are still going to lose hundreds of dollars having to reschedule and rebook this mess. Not sure what they're doing now but most airline change policies went into effect after we booked our review course flights or even Tucson flights.

I'm personally going to lose out on many airline credits that will likely expire prior to the rescheduled exam and now it's too late to schedule different trips and arrange time off between now and then expiration dates. Doubt I'm alone here.
 
Actually just received an official pictorial message from Paul "Build The" Wallner and his henchwoman Dr. K:


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("I really don't care, do u?)
 
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Any news on the Osler course?
 
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I think it will surely get cancelled. But yeah have been watching that as well. A couple of Physics conferences were cancelled this week. I think ESTRO is the big one to fall, but let’s see.

Also closely watching ASCO, but that’s still two Months away

ESTRO postponed

 
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Any news on the Osler course?

I just called and was told it's been canceled and will be rescheduled when oral boards are rescheduled. She said more info would be coming soon by email for anyone who has already registered.
 
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Radiosurgical Society (RSS) Annual Meeting from April 1 - April 4, 2020 in Washington DC has also been cancelled and is being switched to a virtual meeting. Expect an email in the next day or so.
 
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ESTRO postponed until end of July? Is even that premature?
 
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Maybe people will wake up and do these meetings virtually... reduce carbon footprint ;) ?
For sure the orals can be done over a video.
 
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Switching medical meetings to virtual will severely affect attendance. Most physicians use them as additional vacation. Also, a lot of profit for a meeting organizer is in face-to-face interactions between attendees and sponsors.

Maybe people will wake up and do these meetings virtually... reduce carbon footprint ;) ?
For sure the orals can be done over a video.
 
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isnt it funny how obvious board cancellation seems now?
 
I know it's all up in the air...but anybody heard of any updated potential solutions being tossed around? I guess without knowing a firm timeline for when things will clear up, it's hard to know
 
I heard they’re gonna dick around indefinitely and then fail half the class. So totally in line with their prior actions.
 
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The Canadians just canceled ALL specialty exams. ****’s going down everywhere. Buckle up.

Also a side note: Day 2 of self quarantine. Now a wheezy, dry cough. Mildly increased resp rate while walking/standing/long sentences, ok at rest. Overall still mild, and still no test without a known contact.

Hard to manage proton referrals and getting patients enrolled on trial from at home. Lot of phone calls coordinating care from afar. Secretary got approval to work from home now from the university. Life is getting interesting.
 
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Although we all now what percentage of our effort if clinically meaningful, lot's of my colleagues are still having difficulty with coming to terms with it.
 
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