Retirement/savings goal

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No worries about where you are it’s a work in progress. That you are debt adverse and I suspect also fairly frugal as they tend to go together will serve you well. If you hope to FIRE however you will need to be smart and maximize your savings power. I’d reconsider paying off the mortgage if the fixed rate is <5%. Depending on your state’s laws you may have homestead protection. Paying off mortgage can be a costly psychological security blanket and the money is likely better invested elsewhere for growth. You would probably benefit from checking out White Coat Investor or Physical on FIRE.
I definitely will. I agree focusing only on loans not very financially sophisticated, and sadly I’m just starting my investment journey. I was raised by people whose idea of investing was stashing cash in an underwear drawer (literally), and breaking free of that mindset is harder than one may think, lol.

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Others are referring to it above, I think, but 4 percent is the often accepted "safe withdrawal rate" in the early retirement community. So each million gives you $40k to live on with very little chance your money would ever run out. I thus consider financial independence to be in the $2-3 million range if you are willing to live very frugally (low cost of living area with modest spending habits, or higher COL but with the home paid for which should really then count toward your net worth).
The 4% rule is based on return calculations from over 70 years of portfolio data. The chart that gets referenced frequently is below:

1656455298492.png


You can see as long as you've got >50% in stocks for most of the time 4% is very safe. Even 5% can be fairly safe, especially if you're continuing to work part time or can supplement if things start going south (like now).


The question that really matters is what will that 2-3 million look like in 10-15 years as people approach their numbers in 2032-2037 for example. 2-3 million in todays dollars 10-15 years from now is easily maybe 50% more (3-4m) with inflation. I hope i am wrong or my math is totally off.

Also, subjectively speaking 6 years ago 2-3 million seemed like a lot to me and now its maybe barely enough for FIRE. Does anyone else feel this way?

P..S. Also accumulating 3m is fricking hard. If i had 0 dollars now and was a great saver even at 150k yearly in savings thats 13 yrs at 7 percent returns. Even if i had 500k and still saving 150k its 10 years to hit 3m. Plus with a possible recession and less than 7 percent return expected who really knows.
What it looks like in 10-15 years isn't really relevant. I mean, it is, but the long term trends over the course of decades has been stable. When calculating use current dollars. The current inflation rate is not sustainable, and regardless of whether it gets under control in an economically healthy way or if there's a crash, physicians are in a great position to get through those periods (high job security/demand, high income).

Also, saving $3 mil for a physician today should not be that difficult. If you can put 5K per month (60k/yr) into retirement, then you'll have $3 mil (in today dollars) in ~25 years with a 5% return rate. That's not including money from work benefits or other investments and a starting investment of $0. Put more money in earlier and that return will only increase.
 
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I do have a question. Forgive me if it's naive, as my family tended to invest in the underwear drawer, and occasionally the sock drawer. Everyone keeps talking about how it's better to invest than pay off debt depending on the returns, but right now aren't the returns kind of bad because the market is not good? More "guaranteed" investments such as bonds I know exist, but what you get in security you trade off on growth, and some of them you can't access for a certain amount of time, which is scary.
 
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I do have a question. Forgive me if it's naive, as my family tended to invest in the underwear drawer, and occasionally the sock drawer. Everyone keeps talking about how it's better to invest than pay off debt depending on the returns, but right now aren't the returns kind of bad because the market is not good? More "guaranteed" investments such as bonds I know exist, but what you get in security you trade off on growth, and some of them you can't access for a certain amount of time, which is scary.

Either paying off debt or investing is a solid option. Investing in any of your various drawers is obviously not. From a purely financial perspective, if you can get a higher rate of return on an investment than the interest rate on your debt, then investing makes sense. If you can't, paying off the debt makes sense. I'm going to assume you're talking about student loan debt which has a relatively low interest rate (compared to credit cards for example, which need to be paid off ASAP). Historical returns on the US stock market have been roughly 10%, and over the LONG TERM most believe this will continue. So if you have student loans with a rate of 5%, investing in a fund targeting the US stock market is likely to be a good move. There are other things to consider though. Just because 10% is the long term average return on the market doesn't mean this will happen every year. It could drop 20% in a given year and if you're the type of person who will be awake at night worrying about this then paying off the debt is likely a better move for you personally.
 
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I do have a question. Forgive me if it's naive, as my family tended to invest in the underwear drawer, and occasionally the sock drawer. Everyone keeps talking about how it's better to invest than pay off debt depending on the returns, but right now aren't the returns kind of bad because the market is not good? More "guaranteed" investments such as bonds I know exist, but what you get in security you trade off on growth, and some of them you can't access for a certain amount of time, which is scary.
"Buy low, sell high." Stocks are on sale and getting cheaper right now, so it is actually a good time to invest in retirement accounts unless you are retiring within 5 years. When the market recovers, as it always has, you'll get a nice return down the road. The sooner you start investing the better, regardless. " "Time in the market beats trying to time the market" is another truism.

Generally, if debt is lower interest than about 9-10%, it is better to invest first and just pay debt down normally, not aggressively, because historically market returns beat 9-10% over 20 years or so.

I concur that The White Coat Investor book and website are very helpful, check it out.
 
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Yeah you don't want to be getting medical care in Central America or Southeast Asia...

Europe tends to be just as expensive, if not more expensive, than living in the US. I definitely get other reasons to want to retire to Europe (I'd love to retire to Germany for instance), but your dollar isn't gonna go any further there generally.
Meh Bangkok, KL, Singapore are all fine destinations. They've all got western hospitals staffed by European and north American doctors. I had to go to a hospital in Burma once for outpatient care and was attended to by a UCSF residency grad.
 
I do have a question. Forgive me if it's naive, as my family tended to invest in the underwear drawer, and occasionally the sock drawer. Everyone keeps talking about how it's better to invest than pay off debt depending on the returns, but right now aren't the returns kind of bad because the market is not good? More "guaranteed" investments such as bonds I know exist, but what you get in security you trade off on growth, and some of them you can't access for a certain amount of time, which is scary.

With refinancing, the interest rate in my home is <3%. The math would say to never pay it off. The market is on sale. In the long run, money in today will beat 3%. I also purchase real estate where rent returns >5% ignoring appreciation and tax benefits. Buying or starting businesses also often provides a good return, but there is more risk.

I’ve invested 20k with a company that is likely going bankrupt. Little chance I see a penny of that. I’ve invested 6 figures with a company that has resulted in profit of 6 figures as well. What risk are you willing to take?
 
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With refinancing, the interest rate in my home is <3%. The math would say to never pay it off. The market is on sale. In the long run, money in today will beat 3%. I also purchase real estate where rent returns >5% ignoring appreciation and tax benefits. Buying or starting businesses also often provides a good return, but there is more risk.

I’ve invested 20k with a company that is likely going bankrupt. Little chance I see a penny of that. I’ve invested 6 figures with a company that has resulted in profit of 6 figures as well. What risk are you willing to take?
Lol, I could never be a landlord. I’m too much of a bleeding heart for the homeless so I’d not be able to kick people out.

I guess I have another question… how do people who lack salaries in the 200-300’s do it? So they just… not retire? Live on the paltry SSA pensions?
 
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Lol, I could never be a landlord. I’m too much of a bleeding heart for the homeless so I’d not be able to kick people out.

I guess I have another question… how do people who lack salaries in the 200-300’s do it? So they just… not retire? Live on the paltry SSA pensions?

By taking risks or being frugal.

A duplex a friend bought a few years ago cost $220k. He lived in one side and rented the other for $1400. That covered most of his monthly payments. Instead of renting, he was saving an extra $1k/month and building equity. A few years later, he is selling for $310k. With the large down payment, he will buy a 4 plex. That will cover his mortgage and provide some cash every month. He plans to save and buy more real estate little by little.

My uncle is a retired engineer. He did something similar. He worked in whatever country the oil company would send him. He never made a ton, but housing was covered out of the country. Wife enjoyed the perks. If he had switched companies or negotiated better, his willingness to travel could have earned him much more. He never earned >$150k. Instead he stuck with the company and appreciated being sent anywhere for the tax breaks and free flights to “fun destinations”. Upon every return, he bought a house to live in. When he went back overseas, a property management company would rent it out. Retired by choice in his late 60’s and had 8 single family homes. He enjoyed traveling. He wasn’t very efficient at turning real estate at all. He just kept whatever he had bought. Now he has social security plus $4k+/month. Tons of untapped equity. He doesn’t care to improve the situation. They travel to LCOL countries and can’t spend what they earn monthly.

I’m pretty sure I accidentally insulted my wife’s grandparents. They lived in an older home. They fixed things with duct tape. He never made 6 figures. Invested with a large generic firm that anyone can use today. Modest vacations. Everyone thought they were poor. The home was literally falling apart in retirement. It sat on 20 acres (not in a desired area). With wife’s permission, I offered to put a new 2 bedroom home on the land that they could use for life in exchange for the land upon passing. This was not a good financial decision for us, but it wouldn’t be a terrible loss while providing new wheelchair accessible housing for them. They declined. No one understood why. Other in laws approved of the offer. Now with health issues and unable to do their own taxes, I’ve seen their finances. Perfectly happy in a home literally falling apart, they are multi-millionaires. When the home finally fell apart, they moved in to a tiny family cottage and pay rent to family. The place is a small upgrade and they pay over market rent at $600/month.
 
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the housing market where im moving to is insane. hopefully prices go down next year. I am not sure how the average american could even afford to buy a house right now.
 
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Next year or so will likely be a good time to buy. We'll likely get into one of our normal cyclical recessions, spurred by global events. So, you'll likely see home prices level out, or possibly correct somewhat. Probably swing over to more of a buyer's market, though inventory may still be low. Also somewhat depends on your long-term plans. We got lucky with interest rates and prices, as homes in the high 6 low 7 figure range don't have as much competition here as ~500k homes, but we were still going to buy as we wanted to be in a certain school district and needed more space. The home buying calculus for a home you plan in being in for ~20 years is much different than the one you only plan on 5-10 years.
 
As seen historically I also suspect the housing market will correct in the next year or two. At the very least the supply v demand will shift so there will be more selection and less competition especially in consideration of the masses who bought due to FOMO and have buyers remorse. In typical American fashion it is unlikely a majority stay put until it makes financial sense to sell. I’ve invested in RE for 25 years and believe with discipline, excluding the outliers like CA, NYC etc most will be able to make a financially reasonable purchase in the near future regardless of interest rates.
 
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I do have a question. Forgive me if it's naive, as my family tended to invest in the underwear drawer, and occasionally the sock drawer. Everyone keeps talking about how it's better to invest than pay off debt depending on the returns, but right now aren't the returns kind of bad because the market is not good? More "guaranteed" investments such as bonds I know exist, but what you get in security you trade off on growth, and some of them you can't access for a certain amount of time, which is scary.
You can always take the guaranteed ~9% return from I-bonds. It's limited to 10k and you get it back in a year, but given the way the market is going, it's a probably one of the best investments out there for the risk-averse since you'd at least about break-even with inflation. Also you CAN take out I-bonds earlier but you would lose out on the prior 3 months of interest I believe.
 
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You can always take the guaranteed ~9% return from I-bonds. It's limited to 10k and you get it back in a year, but given the way the market is going, it's a probably one of the best investments out there for the risk-averse since you'd at least about break-even with inflation. Also you CAN take out I-bonds earlier but you would lose out on the prior 3 months of interest I believe.

True. And there are ways to effectively buy more than the 10k limit
 
My number needed to retire is 7-10 million minimum plus at least 350k per year in passive income.
 
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You can always take the guaranteed ~9% return from I-bonds. It's limited to 10k and you get it back in a year, but given the way the market is going, it's a probably one of the best investments out there for the risk-averse since you'd at least about break-even with inflation. Also you CAN take out I-bonds earlier but you would lose out on the prior 3 months of interest I believe.

If you have business entities, they can also buy I-bonds.
 
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it's hard to turn down job offers for >$400k/year that don't require a ramp up period with lower income.

What are the details on these >400k offers? Location, practice setting?
 
I see why you're not making the big bucks...Just kidding.

It's the US based company that owes the majority of free standing psych hospitals.

You probably know a few in your area but don't know they belong to UHS.

I see. Good to know. So these hospitals typically pay better?
 
If you invest 200k a year, you’ll have 9 mil 20 years into practice so around age 50 assuming 9 percent stock returns

If your salary in psych stays 400k yes it's possible to save 200k after 401k deductions, hsa, etc. Now doing that for 20 years is something else especially if you plan to pay for kids schooling either private schools pre college or even during college and or professional education.

Also, a more realistic return is 5 percent inflation adjusted to maintain the buying power of today. That brings you to 6.6 m roughly after 20 years of contributing 200k. If you have a dual income and your making 400k in addition to your spouse 50-100k it may be more likely to be done but its a stretch for a single income 400k unless you dont have kids. I am also of the belief that you won't see 400k salaries in psych unless you are self employed especially with this type of time line with NP encroachment of midlevels not to mention this newer mental health assistant on the rise.
 
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If your salary in psych stays 400k yes it's possible to save 200k after 401k deductions, hsa, etc. Now doing that for 20 years is something else especially if you plan to pay for kids schooling either private schools pre college or even during college and or professional education.

Also, a more realistic return is 5 percent inflation adjusted to maintain the buying power of today. That brings you to 6.6 m roughly after 20 years of contributing 200k. If you have a dual income and your making 400k in addition to your spouse 50-100k it may be more likely to be done but its a stretch for a single income 400k unless you dont have kids. I am also of the belief that you won't see 400k salaries in psych unless you are self employed especially with this type of time line with NP encroachment of midlevels not to mention this newer mental health assistant on the rise.
You're only adjusting inflation in line with returns not yearly savings contributions in the that calculation.

I think a more accurate and still conservative way would be to assume 7% return across the board.
 
Around this time last year had saved close to 2m AUD, of which about 10% was inaccessible in Super (similar to US 401k) and a little under 10% in shares which I’d only just recently dipped my toes into – the rest was in cash, as for years I had been focused more on getting through psych training and then building up a private practice as opposed to thinking/reading/contemplating investing.

Due to circumstances outside my control, I ended up purchasing a property which by all objective accounts was a bad investment as it was essentially at the peak of our seemingly never ending property boom and during covid when there was not a lot of stock on offer. It was also uncharacteristically impulsive, as before the bank had approved the loan I’d already inspected, made an offer and had it accepted. Having a lot saved makes it easy to make unconditional offers and take a no BS approach to negotiations. Fortunately the vendors and I both valued our privacy, so an auction situation was never on the cards. The process was all over in about a week which shocked quite a few people, but then again, when you only have 60 days to find somewhere to live…

So while I wasn’t happy with the timing, it was still affordable relative to my income. The location was ideal and I wasn’t planning to move again so long term changes in supposed “value” were less of a concern – the paper valuation has jumped up 25% in the last year, but it doesn’t really mean much. More importantly, by using an offset loan facility I was able to keep the bulk of my previous savings as an emergency fund which also served to keep me relatively immune from interest rate fluctuations. Here, the most common type of home loan has a variable interest rate, so the repayment rates can potentially fluctuate wildly, although up until recently they have remained at historic lows. Fixed term loans are usually only for 5 years, and there’s starting to be plenty of hysteria as our Reserve Bank raise rates, fixed terms end and people have to refinance. Some of my colleagues are now getting a bit antsy as their fixed term loans starting with a 1 or 2 are due to expire, and with one of our major banks lifting fixed rates by 1.4% the choice is to go with something starting in the high 4s, or try and ride out the variable rate rollercoaster.

Over the last 12 months I have saved enough to offset 100% of the home loan (so avoid the above rate related drama) whilst also building up my savings again outside of that. So far the loan interest “saved” is about 5 months of extra repayments. I had calculated that if I can resist touching that offset money and don’t decide to discharge the loan, there will be no further interest payable ever. It gets paid off in just under 20 years with the total outgoings (annual service fees, insurance etc) working out to be about 1% of the total amount borrowed.

With debt under control, the process to save a new nest egg continues. This is coming along nicely and more evenly distributed, with about a third in cash, shares and Super. It’s not quite where I’d like it to be yet, but should get to 7 figures again before I turn 40 so there isn’t really any impetus to work more than my current part time hours. On current projections I should have about 3m by my 50s (a conservative estimate), but how much I need to retire on is harder to calculate and in all likelihood this is probably overkill. If anything, I could get away with doing it much earlier as I have been fortunate to not develop a taste for expensive hobbies or succumb to lifestyle creep (so far).

I do feel like an outlier though. I can remember some years ago before sitting my final exams, I was at a dinner and was speaking to a psychiatrist who complained about busting his gut working 6.5 days a week to pay off a bunch of investment properties, some of which had turned sour as well as leasing fancy cars, paying private school fees etc. As a proxy to enquire about debt, I asked him how long he’d think he could last if he stopped work, and the answer he gave me was that his savings would last a month! At the time I wasn’t even close to my maximum potential earnings, but had estimated that on my current lifestyle my savings I had would last at least 10 years.

At other times I wonder if I’m just not ambitious enough and simply too risk adverse. One friend who graduated at the same time took on a huge mortgage, as well as borrowing to purchase a medical specialist clinic. To afford this debt, he was working 4 different jobs and travelling during his lunchbreak and on the brink of burnout. To add to the stress, the occupants of the clinic were on a very cheap rental arrangement, so he had worried what would happen if he tried to raise the rates and they left. I think he’s doing ok now and has come to accept the level of debt he has, and once it’s paid off it should deliver a dividend well into retirement.

Another friend started his own telemedicine business catering to rural areas, this was based on government subsidies and taking a cut from the work of other doctors. The way it worked was that the patients wouldn’t be charged, the doctors would earn the medicare rebate and the company would take the 50% bonus loading as a service fee for all the administrative tasks. At the start he was travelling and marketing to regional areas, and had enough psychiatrists from his graduating cohort who were happy to work with him and initial demand was ridiculous. However, with more competition in this space (I swear every year I get an email from a new graduate psychiatrist wanting to recruit to a new telehealth provider) and the bonus subsidies ending it’s not really going to be viable moving forward.
 
Around this time last year had saved close to 2m AUD, of which about 10% was inaccessible in Super (similar to US 401k) and a little under 10% in shares which I’d only just recently dipped my toes into – the rest was in cash, as for years I had been focused more on getting through psych training and then building up a private practice as opposed to thinking/reading/contemplating investing.

Due to circumstances outside my control, I ended up purchasing a property which by all objective accounts was a bad investment as it was essentially at the peak of our seemingly never ending property boom and during covid when there was not a lot of stock on offer. It was also uncharacteristically impulsive, as before the bank had approved the loan I’d already inspected, made an offer and had it accepted. Having a lot saved makes it easy to make unconditional offers and take a no BS approach to negotiations. Fortunately the vendors and I both valued our privacy, so an auction situation was never on the cards. The process was all over in about a week which shocked quite a few people, but then again, when you only have 60 days to find somewhere to live…

So while I wasn’t happy with the timing, it was still affordable relative to my income. The location was ideal and I wasn’t planning to move again so long term changes in supposed “value” were less of a concern – the paper valuation has jumped up 25% in the last year, but it doesn’t really mean much. More importantly, by using an offset loan facility I was able to keep the bulk of my previous savings as an emergency fund which also served to keep me relatively immune from interest rate fluctuations. Here, the most common type of home loan has a variable interest rate, so the repayment rates can potentially fluctuate wildly, although up until recently they have remained at historic lows. Fixed term loans are usually only for 5 years, and there’s starting to be plenty of hysteria as our Reserve Bank raise rates, fixed terms end and people have to refinance. Some of my colleagues are now getting a bit antsy as their fixed term loans starting with a 1 or 2 are due to expire, and with one of our major banks lifting fixed rates by 1.4% the choice is to go with something starting in the high 4s, or try and ride out the variable rate rollercoaster.

Over the last 12 months I have saved enough to offset 100% of the home loan (so avoid the above rate related drama) whilst also building up my savings again outside of that. So far the loan interest “saved” is about 5 months of extra repayments. I had calculated that if I can resist touching that offset money and don’t decide to discharge the loan, there will be no further interest payable ever. It gets paid off in just under 20 years with the total outgoings (annual service fees, insurance etc) working out to be about 1% of the total amount borrowed.

With debt under control, the process to save a new nest egg continues. This is coming along nicely and more evenly distributed, with about a third in cash, shares and Super. It’s not quite where I’d like it to be yet, but should get to 7 figures again before I turn 40 so there isn’t really any impetus to work more than my current part time hours. On current projections I should have about 3m by my 50s (a conservative estimate), but how much I need to retire on is harder to calculate and in all likelihood this is probably overkill. If anything, I could get away with doing it much earlier as I have been fortunate to not develop a taste for expensive hobbies or succumb to lifestyle creep (so far).

I do feel like an outlier though. I can remember some years ago before sitting my final exams, I was at a dinner and was speaking to a psychiatrist who complained about busting his gut working 6.5 days a week to pay off a bunch of investment properties, some of which had turned sour as well as leasing fancy cars, paying private school fees etc. As a proxy to enquire about debt, I asked him how long he’d think he could last if he stopped work, and the answer he gave me was that his savings would last a month! At the time I wasn’t even close to my maximum potential earnings, but had estimated that on my current lifestyle my savings I had would last at least 10 years.

At other times I wonder if I’m just not ambitious enough and simply too risk adverse. One friend who graduated at the same time took on a huge mortgage, as well as borrowing to purchase a medical specialist clinic. To afford this debt, he was working 4 different jobs and travelling during his lunchbreak and on the brink of burnout. To add to the stress, the occupants of the clinic were on a very cheap rental arrangement, so he had worried what would happen if he tried to raise the rates and they left. I think he’s doing ok now and has come to accept the level of debt he has, and once it’s paid off it should deliver a dividend well into retirement.

Another friend started his own telemedicine business catering to rural areas, this was based on government subsidies and taking a cut from the work of other doctors. The way it worked was that the patients wouldn’t be charged, the doctors would earn the medicare rebate and the company would take the 50% bonus loading as a service fee for all the administrative tasks. At the start he was travelling and marketing to regional areas, and had enough psychiatrists from his graduating cohort who were happy to work with him and initial demand was ridiculous. However, with more competition in this space (I swear every year I get an email from a new graduate psychiatrist wanting to recruit to a new telehealth provider) and the bonus subsidies ending it’s not really going to be viable moving forward.
Sounds like you are doing well though! Sometimes the best investments are the most boring, "safer" ones. Honestly you are well on your way to financial independence even without having to take major risks.

I'm probably even more risk averse than you. I would much rather work chill academic gigs w/ no weekends or night calls and gradually "coast" my way to retirement in a few years than work myself to the bone and get out in 2-3.
 
Around this time last year had saved close to 2m AUD
Obviously you don't have to answer any of these questions but:

If you have a home loan then what happened to the 2M in savings? Did you buy a mega mansion or is housing just insane? I am aware at least some Australian cities are quite expensive but I wouldn't have expected a "reasonable" home to be in the multiple millions.

When you say offset, you mean your investments, assuming average historical return, are approximately the same earnings as the interest on your loan?

I had recently learned what you mentioned--that in most other countries mortgages are adjustable rate. Definitely a conceptually different place in terms of population effects of monetary policy.
 
You'll be seeing 40-80 inpatients per day and will be compensated accordingly

Thats a heavy patient load but if it compensates accordingly for that amount of work then it sounds like it could be a pretty good deal
 
Thats a heavy patient load but if it compensates accordingly for that amount of work then it sounds like it could be a pretty good deal
It's more like 20 to 30 at most.

Paper charting which is ridiculously quick because templated checklist.

Some weekends you might have to cover other attending patients but you get compensated extra (anything above 25 patients but that might be location dependent)
 
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It's more like 20 to 30 at most.

Paper charting which is ridiculously quick because templated checklist.

Some weekends you might have to cover other attending patients but you get compensated extra (anything above 25 patients but that might be location dependent)

Gotcha, I figured 40-80 was hyperbole. But that sounds manageable. I looked it up and there's actually a few of these UHS facilities around me. Are there any other similar large private psych hospital companies you're aware of?
 
Gotcha, I figured 40-80 was hyperbole. But that sounds manageable. I looked it up and there's actually a few of these UHS facilities around me. Are there any other similar large private psych hospital companies you're aware of?
40-80 is what the UHS docs in Washington DC end up seeing. They're salaried for the first 30, everyone after that just counts towards the productivity incentive, which at that hospital is uncapped. I think one or two of them only see ~45. They're severely understaffed, but it's been that way for 10 years.
 
40-80 is what the UHS docs in Washington DC end up seeing. They're salaried for the first 30, everyone after that just counts towards the productivity incentive, which at that hospital is uncapped. I think one or two of them only see ~45. They're severely understaffed, but it's been that way for 10 years.

Are they working 12+ hour days?
 
I-bonds are suppose to match inflation. Ideally, your investments should exceed inflation.

Stock market is on sale. . . . .
 
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Are they working 12+ hour days?

If you really wanted to you could see each patient for about 2 minutes, write your note in 1 minute and breeze through 80 patients in 4 hours. Do this at two different hospitals and you'd knock out 160 patients in 8 hours. Give yourself an hour to drive between hospitals and lunch, so call it a 9 hour day. SW will deal with all the dispo, collateral, other useless things that shouldn't bother a busy psychiatrist. If you wanted you could find a desperate college student to be your scribe, but don't offer them more than $12 or so an hour as not to cut into profits too significantly. You'll be pulling in somewhere around 60-70k a week and will live out your dream of being the best paid inpatient psychiatrist in America.
 
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I-bonds are suppose to match inflation. Ideally, your investments should exceed inflation.

Stock market is on sale. . . . .

Tied to inflation, not necessarily a match, as it is composed of different elements. Either way, given it's very low may investment per entity rate, it's likely a very small part of most high earners portfolios. Easy to max that out and still pour money into stocks and/or funds.

Edit: I also like it as a fairly liquidable stash. After a year, it's nice to have that interest rate sitting there for an emergency fund, cash on hand, than most other liquid investments.
 
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If you really wanted to you could see each patient for about 2 minutes, write your note in 1 minute and breeze through 80 patients in 4 hours. Do this at two different hospitals and you'd knock out 160 patients in 8 hours. Give yourself an hour to drive between hospitals and lunch, so call it a 9 hour day. SW will deal with all the dispo, collateral, other useless things that shouldn't bother a busy psychiatrist. If you wanted you could find a desperate college student to be your scribe, but don't offer them more than $12 or so an hour as not to cut into profits too significantly. You'll be pulling in somewhere around 60-70k a week and will live out your dream of being the best paid inpatient psychiatrist in America.

Interesting. That sounds like too little time spent on each patient to provide good care though. But do inpatient psychiatrists generally have social worker support to handle collateral gathering and such? It could turn into a rather arduous job if not
 
Interesting. That sounds like too little time spent on each patient to provide good care though. But do inpatient psychiatrists generally have social worker support to handle collateral gathering and such? It could turn into a rather arduous job if not
One could argue that is a little quick, but in reality when the patient is yelling about being the second coming of Jesus, how much time do you really need to spend? Let's call it 2.5-3 minutes per patient to account for the ones who are sad and just want to cry during their time with you. Maybe your day will be closer to 10 hours. You could alternatively make high-protein whey smoothies with almond milk and all the vital nutrients to cut down on lunch to save time there though, so maybe it's a wash in the end.

Yes SW are typically all highly trained and efficient in getting the full story from collateral and dealing with dispo. They are vital to your success in raking in millions doing inpatient psych. Some may push for something called "treatment team meetings". Resist these most unholy of requests. These meetings will just slow you down. With a little direction during the day via text SW should be able to sort all issues.
 
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One could argue that is a little quick, but in reality when the patient is yelling about being the second coming of Jesus, how much time do you really need to spend? Let's call it 2.5-3 minutes per patient to account for the ones who are sad and just want to cry during their time with you. Maybe your day will be closer to 10 hours. You could alternatively make high-protein whey smoothies with almond milk and all the vital nutrients to cut down on lunch to save time there though, so maybe it's a wash in the end.

Yes SW are typically all highly trained and efficient in getting the full story from collateral and dealing with dispo. They are vital to your success in raking in millions doing inpatient psych. Some may push for something called "treatment team meetings". Resist these most unholy of requests. These meetings will just slow you down. With a little direction during the day via text SW should be able to sort all issues.

Cool. I'm a fan of the protein shake idea. Gotta hit the macros in the most efficient way possible
 
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Tied to inflation, not necessarily a match, as it is composed of different elements. Either way, given it's very low may investment per entity rate, it's likely a very small part of most high earners portfolios. Easy to max that out and still pour money into stocks and/or funds.

Edit: I also like it as a fairly liquidable stash. After a year, it's nice to have that interest rate sitting there for an emergency fund, cash on hand, than most other liquid investments.
And tax deferred is nice also. I can’t remember if this was mentioned before but if you have a 1099 gig or private practice you can do an additional $10,000 a year using your EIN.
 
40-80 is what the UHS docs in Washington DC end up seeing. They're salaried for the first 30, everyone after that just counts towards the productivity incentive, which at that hospital is uncapped. I think one or two of them only see ~45. They're severely understaffed, but it's been that way for 10
Totally agree with the ability to crank out volume in the DC area because everyone is psychotic or full on manic. I can generally round and chart on 20-24 patients including 2-3 intakes in under 6h.
 
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Sounds like you are doing well though! Sometimes the best investments are the most boring, "safer" ones. Honestly you are well on your way to financial independence even without having to take major risks.

I'm probably even more risk averse than you. I would much rather work chill academic gigs w/ no weekends or night calls and gradually "coast" my way to retirement in a few years than work myself to the bone and get out in 2-3.

Have always felt that because I didn’t decide to buy a house and get stuck with debt earlier, I was able to make the jump to private practice almost immediately, working less hours for a better hourly rate and nicer lifestyle. Then again, it’s probably just a post-hoc justification and rationalisation to protect the ego.

Obviously you don't have to answer any of these questions but:

If you have a home loan then what happened to the 2M in savings? Did you buy a mega mansion or is housing just insane? I am aware at least some Australian cities are quite expensive but I wouldn't have expected a "reasonable" home to be in the multiple millions.
The place I have is certainly above average, but it’s not a mega mansion in an A-list suburb – those start out around the 3m mark, which was well outside my budget. A friend had suggested throwing everything I had at something like that, but I tend to take the view that “when you go to sleep all houses are the same.”

Regarding inanity, yes - Australian housing is completely insane, hence my frustration and irritability at purchasing when I did. Price increased have outpaced incomes, there was no post GFC correction, and for the longest time it has been politically unpalatable to even think about removing the range of tax subsidies given to property investors (some have even compared the fervour around this issue to your Second Amendment rights).

During all this time our Reserve Bank has also kept cutting interest rates to zero, ignoring calls that increased credit availably only pumps up asset prices and claiming that homeowners enjoy a “wealth effect” from being able to spend the equity in their property (basically more debt). Interest rates on savings accounts have also been paltry, so saving the initial deposit is hard and this is compounded by incomes being taxed more than capital gains on assets. Low returns on cash investments means retirees were also turning to riskier asset classes including investment property, fuelling even more speculation.

During the last election campaign both major parties had hare-brained policies eg. allowing early superannuation withdrawals (only for property), so forcing people to pick between their retirement or owning a home; or shared equity schemes where a potential owner would only need to deposit 2% and the government would make up the rest of the deposit - absolute madness!

When you say offset, you mean your investments, assuming average historical return, are approximately the same earnings as the interest on your loan?
With this type of loan structure normally what happens is that they nominate an existing bank account to be the offset. The loan interest calculation is determined by the outstanding loan minus the offset amount, but there is also no interest paid on any of my savings in said account. Over time, this difference decreases as one’s salary goes into the offset account and part of the loan gets repaid each month.

The offset account is often an everyday transactional account, so one has to be careful to not overspend as doing so will reduce the interest saved. It’s a good option for those who can save, as under more normal circumstances, the interest repayments alone often end up being as much as the original loan. In my case, due to having more savings it just means that the amount in my offset was higher from the start.

If one borrows say 1m, and has an amount in the offset of 1m – then they are not charged any interest. So you might think, why not just pay it off completely if you can? The answer is flexibility, as the funds in the offset can be used for any unexpected repairs, emergencies etc.
 
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Asking here since were all in the same field essentially with similiar income for the most part.

How much are you guys saving a year? Is there a target number you're trying to hit by retirement for network/amount tucked away? Any certain age you guys are planning on reducing hours/retiring?

Now that im an attending psychiatrist, the pressure to save is a little more, since we start later than everyone else. Despite having a lot of expenses this year that were unavoidable, im saving around 90k-100k a year, not counting IRA contributions, and this is with paying around 36k-40k this year towards student loans so im happy with that. The market is so volatile right now, im just maxing out I bonds each year and have my cash in a 1.2% high yield savings account, though I think i think ill buy in more to S&P index funds once it dips further. Currently have about 12k in them so far, though regretting buying them a little early since the market dipped shortly after. oh well.
Figure out how much you want to live on and your goal should be 25x that if you go by the 4% rule. Personally, I pile my money into the market when things look bad. Most hear recession, I hear discount stocks.
 
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