Research Option Concerns

[Righty123]

Hey guys, I'm a bit ambivalent on what research program I should partake in for the summer between my first and second year.

My options so far are:
1. Research with the ENT dept at my home school.
2. Retrospective case review project (multistage cohort study) at a well respected institution.
3. Research with a physician at another well known institution.

I am not sure which option I should pursue since each has their pros and cons. Therefore, I was wondering what you guys would choose as your 1st, 2nd and 3rd option.

Any feedback is much appreciated!

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[resxn]

Based on the info in your post, can't really tell you what to do. In terms of what the ENT community considers quality research these days, EMB is really getting pushed hard. So, in general, the best projects are in order:

Oxford Centre for Evidence-based Medicine Levels of Evidence (May 2001)
Level 1 - Randomized controlled trials or a systematic review (meta-analysis) of randomized controlled trials.
Level 2 - Prospective (cohort or outcomes) study with an internal control group or a systematic review of prospective, controlled trials.
Level 3 - Retrospective (case-control) study with an internal control group or a systematic review of retrospective, controlled trials.
Level 4 - Case series without an internal control group (retrospective reviews; uncontrolled cohort or outcome studies).
Level 5 - Expert opinion without explicit critical appraisal, or recommendation based on physiology/bench research.

There's lots of ways to define EBM, but our Academy uses these definitions so that's why I posted them.

Now the position of your authorship is also a consideration. In general, the higher the position the better. In fact, I would argue that a higher position on the paper knocks up the value of the research. One higher position is, to me, equivalent to 1 level increase. For example, if you have the chance to be 3rd author on Level 1 or first author on Level 2, I'd go with the Level 2 project. Or if you have the chance to be 1st author of a level 3, I think this is as good as being the 2nd author on Level 2. THIS FORMULA OF MINE APPLIES ONLY TO MED STUDENTS for the sake of applying to ENT not to any other situation.

The formula doesn't work when it's more than one position removed. In other words, I wouldn't say being 1st author on Level 3 is the same as being 3rd author on a Level 1. I just think the formula breaks down after the first degree. Whatever. It's just a guideline for you to consider when there are choices among several different good opportunities.

 

[dilated]

Based on the info in your post, can't really tell you what to do. In terms of what the ENT community considers quality research these days, EMB is really getting pushed hard. So, in general, the best projects are in order:

Is there a difference between totally unrelated research (cards) and somewhat-ENT related research (head and neck oncology, plastics) that's not done with ENT faculty? Or is it just viewed as either ENT/not ENT?

 

[Fah-Q]

Hey guys, I'm a bit ambivalent on what research program I should partake in for the summer between my first and second year.

My options so far are:
1. Research with the ENT dept at my home school.
2. Retrospective case review project (multistage cohort study) at a well respected institution.
3. Research with a physician at another well known institution.

I am not sure which option I should pursue since each has their pros and cons. Therefore, I was wondering what you guys would choose as your 1st, 2nd and 3rd option.

Any feedback is much appreciated!

Nothing wrong with trying to get ahead in the research/application game. Just showing interest and having taken part in research combined with top-notch scores is probably enough to match in ENT. Actually publishing a first author paper is overrated in my opinion. Also, you need to realize that this is your last summer off...ever.

So, what am I saying? Choose the project that allows you the most free-time in my opinion. Taking it easy, enjoying the summer and recharging the batteries for the next year shouldn't be underestimated. You'll come in more refreshed and ready to shovel as much info into your brain to ace step 1, which is still the single most important factor in applying to ENT.

 

[resxn]

Is there a difference between totally unrelated research (cards) and somewhat-ENT related research (head and neck oncology, plastics) that's not done with ENT faculty? Or is it just viewed as either ENT/not ENT?

I think it's pretty much ENT vs Non-ENT research. However, I don't think the distinction is all that important unless you have significant ground-breaking research in ENT that could be carried on in the residency.

I disagree with Fah-Q. I think I just swore. I think being anything beyond 2nd author is over-rated (3rd author or lower). Most people feel that a med student this far down is really just leg work and not a main "thinking" contributer whether correct or not. I don't think you can be over-rated as a first author as a med student. That's a great achievement regardless of whether it's ENT or not. But as you can see there are differences of opinion just as there are on admissions committees. Personally, I couldn't care less about a student with research, never seemed to correlate with how good of a resident they were--nor did board scores for that matter. I cared about enthusiasm and personality in the interview, that's about it.

 

[TheThroat]

Hey guys, I'm a bit ambivalent on what research program I should partake in for the summer between my first and second year.

My options so far are:
1. Research with the ENT dept at my home school.
2. Retrospective case review project (multistage cohort study) at a well respected institution.
3. Research with a physician at another well known institution.

I am not sure which option I should pursue since each has their pros and cons. Therefore, I was wondering what you guys would choose as your 1st, 2nd and 3rd option.

Any feedback is much appreciated!

Would do whatever project allows you to develop good relationships with the staff and specifically with one staff that might write a quality LOR. Getting some good research is one thing that helps out an app. Getting an LOR from a well-respected ENT researcher is quite another.

 

[THE armada]

Most people feel that a med student this far down is really just leg work and not a main "thinking" contributer whether correct or not.

I'm hoping to do some research this summer in ENT, but I really can't see myself being anything other than leg work at this point. I just don't know anything about the clinical practice of ENT. How does a first year med student establish the ENT knowledge base to become a "thinking" contributer?

 

[resxn]

I'm hoping to do some research this summer in ENT, but I really can't see myself being anything other than leg work at this point. I just don't know anything about the clinical practice of ENT. How does a first year med student establish the ENT knowledge base to become a "thinking" contributer?

you won't as a first year. Stick around and get on other projects as you go along. That's why being a higher up author is worth so much more.

 

[resxn]

somebody dregged this post up from the bottoms today--I couldn't find it when I looked for it before posting my little algorithm above. This is not as user-friendly of an algorithm and doesn't 100% jive with what I wrote above but it's worth considering I think. I think that because I wrote it and unlike many of my posts, I still agree with it the next day.

In order of the best publications for the med student CV trying to get into ENT:

1 - First Author Prospective, Double-Blind, Placebo Controlled Trial
1.5 - First Author on Original Lab Research Paper
2 - 2-3rd author on any of the above
3 - Meta-Analysis
4 - Review Article
5 - Chart Review/Retrospective study
6 - Case Report
7 - Case Report last author
8 - Any paper where you're an acknowledgement at the end

The general order is there but is in tiers: the first 2 are essentially interchangeable and clearly better than the rest, 2-5 are swappable among themselves as the 2nd tier, and 6-8 are the trash ones.

 

[discontinuebed]

What about finishing with 0 publications? Is the time spent in research considered "wasted" time then?

 

[Leforte]

While a publication is always the desired goal, more often than not, it doesn't happen. Looking at our applicants over the past few years, few actually had a publication, several had stuff submitted, most had just spent some time in a project. As long as you've demonstrated a willingness and an effort towards a project, and you can talk about it intelligently at your interviews, I think you'd be fine.

 

[discontinuebed]

While a publication is always the desired goal, more often than not, it doesn't happen. Looking at our applicants over the past few years, few actually had a publication, several had stuff submitted, most had just spent some time in a project. As long as you've demonstrated a willingness and an effort towards a project, and you can talk about it intelligently at your interviews, I think you'd be fine.

Awesome, thanks.