research in Orthopaedics/ Biomechanics

[bixing]

Hi
I just finished my ECFMG certification.(217 and 210 in step-1 &2)
But I am a FMG since I did my med school outside US.
Also I worked in UK for one year in Orthopaedics and partly completed MRCS. But then I had to come back to US for family reasons.
Wats the best way to get into Ortho?
I mean I am gonna apply anyways..but how to get into some research related activities in Orthopaedics?
Also, Which would be the best place to start if I need to get into Upper Limb finally.
Many have told me not to think of Orthopaedics coz its almost impossible n stuff. But I am gonna get in and reach the top.
I have dreamt of Ortho all my med life. Thats wat I did in my elective postings and thats wat i have done till now after med school.
I need some real guidance.
Please help

Thanx

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[Wahoos]

Hey bixing, that is great you want to do Orthopedics. But I think you are on an uphill battle to get into a residency.. sorry, just wanted to be honest with you. Being an FMG is tough, I think less than 2% of all positions in the US are comprised of FMGs. Your Board scores are on the low side for applying to Ortho, even for an American grad. Most programs will have an cut of at 225 or so. I think the ONLY way you can get into an Orthopedics residency is to work at a place with a Ortho program, do research for them for a couple of years, and show them you can be productive in the lab, get in with the program director and also the chairman of that particular program, hopefully then, they will give you a spot, but still an uphill battle. You may even have to do a prelimary surgery year to show them that you can excell at the clinical part of the residency. I am sorry to be so critical, but this is my honest opinon. I know most the FMGs who get into Ortho here have board scores in the 240-260s and with significant research, like PhD, 1st author pubs, or fully trained orthopods from their countries, etc, and these guys still need connections to get a spot here. Having been through the Match last year, I can tell you that getting a spot for a very qualified american medical student can be very tough. I had a friend last yr in my class (Top 20 US med school), with 240s Step I, couple of publications, top 30% of our class, great letters, and went to 15 interviews, was in the end..... unmatched. Decided to scramble for an radiology spot.

I would research out some programs that have accepted FMGs in their residency, I would stay away from high powered academic programs, as they will probably not give you a spot even if you have done research with them. When you have decided which program is the right fit for you, I would email the P.D. or the Chair, get together an C.V. and send it to them asking if their is any opportunity to do research, your interests, and your desire to eventually do ortho here. If they have reserach spots, then do a couple of years in the lab, work hard, get to know the residents, chair and PD, take call when you can, also be productive in the lab. Usually, it takes at least 2 years to get things published. Then when the time comes to apply, meet with the PD and Chair, see if you can get a spot with them. You best bet is the program which you are known.

I wish you luck, getting a spot here is tough, but NOT impossible, and if this is your dream, then go for it.

 

[sscooterguy]

I agree with wahoos 100%. Its hard, but we're just trying to tell you the truth, its gonna be hard, dang near impossible...with those scores, its pretty hard as an american grad.

You mentioned that you want to do upper limb. If you're talking about hand surgery there is one other way, and that's through Gen Surg. This is by no means a back door, as it is VERY difficult to find a fellowship spot - there are very few. Check out freida, and look for hand fellowships specifically for Gen Surgeons. If you go that route, it will give you time to go into a gen surg residency (however, it will be hard to get a competative academic residency with your posted scores). During your gen surg residency, you could focus on hand stuff in any research that you do, and hopefully get to network with programs that have the hand fellowships.

Its gonna be hard, but you're gonna have to be honest with yourself. Don't listen to everyone that says "just go for it!" without asking for real constructive advice. Ask for honest opinions and real facts. Good luck.

sscooterguy

 

[Wahoos]

Agree with Scooter Dude, you can go the Gen Surg route for a Hand fellowship, but the down side is that you have to do gen surg for 5 yrs , I would rather be taking food orders than to do a gen surg residency. A lot of the Hand fellowships will accept apps from both Gen Surg and Orthopedics. However, if you want to do Upper Limb, I think ortho is the route, since a lot of the competitive hand fellowships that will allow you do upper limb things are orthopedics only fellowships, places like Wash U. have hand/upper limb with yamaguchi, or at columbia with the father of shoulder surgery Dr. B. Most the Gen surg hand fellowships stick with elbow down, mostly wrist/hand, you won't see many elbow replacements unless you are at a high powered academic place. Also another thing is that getting into a general surgery categorical spot these days is not easy, used to be about 4-5 yrs ago when there was almost 25% unmatched spots, but last yr's match only had a handful(<10) of gen surg spots open out of about 1000 spots. Being a FMG, getting into a "good" gen surg categorical spot is not a walk in the park.

 

[moquito_17]

Hi
I just finished my ECFMG certification.(217 and 210 in step-1 &2)
But I am a FMG since I did my med school outside US.
Also I worked in UK for one year in Orthopaedics and partly completed MRCS. But then I had to come back to US for family reasons.
Wats the best way to get into Ortho?
I mean I am gonna apply anyways..but how to get into some research related activities in Orthopaedics?
Also, Which would be the best place to start if I need to get into Upper Limb finally.
Many have told me not to think of Orthopaedics coz its almost impossible n stuff. But I am gonna get in and reach the top.
I have dreamt of Ortho all my med life. Thats wat I did in my elective postings and thats wat i have done till now after med school.
I need some real guidance.
Please help

Thanx

If you are interested in providing musculoskeletal care, you may consider doing Family Medicine or PM&R and then doing a Sports Medicine fellowship. You would be able to provide non-operative care for most musculoskeletal conditions and be able to do injections, cover sporting events, etc.

This is something to consider given that with your numbers and FMG status, you are unlikely to secure an orthopaedic surgery training position, even with research and 'connections'.

 

[bixing]

Thank you guys...
Thank you very much for the honest opinion..
I would take your advice....
I think I would still like to try because this is wat I wanna do. I knw my scores are low but lets see. Musculoskeletal thing is such a beauty in itself that there is nothing comparable to it.
I would rather not go to non-operative field but I would now search for some programs which are not on the top but somewhere in the middle or lower side and see how it goes.
But if you guys knw any such program where such things are likely, you could let me knw any time.

 

[moquito_17]

Thank you guys...
Thank you very much for the honest opinion..
I would take your advice....
I think I would still like to try because this is wat I wanna do. I knw my scores are low but lets see. Musculoskeletal thing is such a beauty in itself that there is nothing comparable to it.
I would rather not go to non-operative field but I would now search for some programs which are not on the top but somewhere in the middle or lower side and see how it goes.
But if you guys knw any such program where such things are likely, you could let me knw any time.

There is no such thing as a 'low or middle side' orthopaedic surgery program. All US MD programs are top notch and attract the best of the best medical students from US schools. Even at the community programs or the so-called ‘less desirable’ programs, applicants are top of their class, AOA, 230-240s and are bright, interesting people.

From what you have posted, the chances of you matching are slim to none and you need to have a realistic idea of what is attainable. Others have been very charitable to you, but to be frank, with your numbers and FMG status the chances of you matching are 0%.

You are best pursuing orthopaedics outside of the US or pursuing a non-operative musculoskeletal program.

I hate to be the bearer of this information, but you deserve to hear the truth.

I wish you the best with your pursuits.

 

[sscooterguy]

There is no such thing as a 'low or middle side' orthopaedic surgery program. All US MD programs are top notch and attract the best of the best medical students from US schools. Even at the community programs or the so-called ‘less desirable’ programs, applicants are top of their class, AOA, 230-240s and are bright, interesting people.

From what you have posted, the chances of you matching are slim to none and you need to have a realistic idea of what is attainable. Others have been very charitable to you, but to be frank, with your numbers and FMG status the chances of you matching are 0%.

You are best pursuing orthopaedics outside of the US or pursuing a non-operative musculoskeletal program.

I hate to be the bearer of this information, but you deserve to hear the truth.

I wish you the best with your pursuits.

I agree. We're just trying to save you time and lots of money. I go to a middle of top tier school, I did mediocre on step 1, and my chairman is telling me IF I get 240 on step 2, I have a chance at academic programs, but if I get 230's he'll help me get into the so called "lower tier" schools, and still, there's no guarantee. Mind you, I've done very well during my third year, and have a year of research with a decent publication, and he's telling me this. Moquito's right, it's damn near impossible. Start broadening your options, and consider non traditional routes. Good luck.

sscooterguy

 

[bixing]

Thanx again
I am getting Orthopaedics in New Zealand with these scores....
But I am not sure how successful would I be if I intend to return to USA after doing residency there?? Are there chances of getting a fellowship here after a residency from there?
Is there any place that I can find out about all this?

Thanx