[redacted] Reapplicant (possibly 2x) advice needed

[Lucky Day]

[Redacted, but saved. PM me if you find this by search and are interested in the details.]

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[ciestar]

What was your actual school list?

 

[Lucky Day]

[Redacted, but saved. PM me if you find this by search and are interested in the details.]

 

[Cath Up]

(None of those are DO, right?) Why did you not apply DO? I recommend applying DO if you want to attend medical school.

My guess is that your GPA is quite low for many allopathic institutions to bite, when there are many other applicants with higher GPAs and similar MCAT scores. Sounds like your ECs are great, though.

 

[Lucky Day]

(None of those are DO, right?) Why did you not apply DO? I recommend applying DO if you want to attend medical school.

My guess is that your GPA is quite low for many allopathic institutions to bite, when there are many other applicants with higher GPAs and similar MCAT scores. Sounds like your ECs are great, though.

The quick answer is that lab work is very important to me and I wanted a school which could provide a robust science environment. The longer answer lies somewhere in a conclusion that I never believed I needed to extend myself beyond MD applications. I'm not opposed to DO, however, and I expect to add DO schools to the next list.

EDIT: Also, I have had conversations with advisors and brief conversations with adcoms about my GPA. I was led to believe that the time gap between GPAs would make it less of an issue. Maybe an adcom here can comment specifically on that.

 

[Faha]

Most of the schools you applied to accept very few applicants with your GPA. Why did you not apply to all your Florida state schools (Florida State. U Florida, USF) ? I suggest these schools for your next application cycle:
ALL of your Florida MD schools (including Nova MD if it opens for 2018)
Loyola
St. Louis
Creighton
Georgetown
GW
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Albany
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Oakland Beaumont
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
Rush
Tulane
any new schools that open for 2018 (Seton Hall, Roseman, etc.)
Also apply to at least 10 DO schools including LECOM-Bradenton and Nova Southeastern in Florida. You may need a DO LOR for some schools.

 

[Lucky Day]

Most of the schools you applied to accept very few applicants with your GPA. Why did you not apply to all your Florida state schools (Florida State. U Florida, USF) ? I suggest these schools for your next application cycle:
ALL of your Florida MD schools (including Nova MD if it opens for 2018)
Loyola
St. Louis
Creighton
Georgetown
GW
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Albany
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Oakland Beaumont
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
Rush
Tulane
any new schools that open for 2018 (Seton Hall, Roseman, etc.)
Also apply to at least 10 DO schools including LECOM-Bradenton and Nova Southeastern in Florida. You may need a DO LOR for some schools.

I appreciate the school list, thank you.

Can you also comment more generally about my application and application history?

 

[Cath Up]

That seems to be a pretty reasonable explanation for not applying DO in the past. Like Faha said, makes sense to apply DO and MD this cycle. You're allowed to value research up until the point that it prevents you from achieving this presumed more important goal. If I were you I would apply to more than 10 DO schools because after 3 cycles I would want to achieve my goal no matter what. Best of luck to you!

 

[gyngyn]

Language skills?
Commitment to service?

 

[Lucky Day]

Language skills?
Commitment to service?

Language Skills: I'm typically a good interviewer (minus my first cycle interview, which was really wonky). I have great patient interaction skills. I was also on the the editorial board of my alma mater's newspaper.

Commitment to service: Since returning to school, I've never not been involved with a community project. I believe my experience lends well to mentoring and tutoring so most of my experiences are in that arena. That includes building a retreat for new first generation college students, mentoring Harlem adults wanting to go back to college, tutoring elementary school kids in math for their state exams and leading group tutoring for intro science courses.

EDIT: That being said, I do question the overall presentation of my essays. Since I have such a long history, I found it very difficult to give a comprehensive picture of myself in the space allotted. However, I always passed them over many eyes, my pre-med advisor always being the final gate.

 

[gyngyn]

Language Skills: I'm typically a good interviewer (minus my first cycle interview, which was really wonky). I have great patient interaction skills. I was also on the the editorial board of my alma mater's newspaper.

Commitment to service: Since returning to school, I've never not been involved with a community project. I believe my experience lends well to mentoring and tutoring so most of my experiences are in that arena. That includes building a retreat for new first generation college students, mentoring Harlem adults wanting to go back to college, tutoring elementary school kids in math for their state exams and leading group tutoring for intro science courses.

The added value that you might represent is an enhanced ability to communicate with and understand a marginalized community. Do you have evidence of that ability?

 

[Lucky Day]

The added value that you might represent is in an enhanced ability to communicate with and understand a marginalized community. Do you have evidence of that ability?

The fact that I need to think about that gives me pause before I can say so. I feel very strong affinity towards marginalized communities, but I haven't assemble my self-projection in a way to say that. I did, however, use my first personal statement to try to express how I envision one of my strengths to be my ability to shift identity roles. I didn't necessarily gear it towards populations, but more so towards environments.

 

[gyngyn]

The fact that I need to think about that gives me pause before I can say so. I feel very strong affinity towards marginalized communities, but I haven't assemble my self-projection in a way to say that. I did, however, use my first personal statement to try to express how I envision one of my strengths to be my ability to shift identity roles. I didn't necessarily gear it towards populations, but more so towards environments.

Which community?

 

[Faha]

Most of the schools you applied to were far reach schools with your GPA. You should do better in the next application cycle especially with DO schools. Apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July.

 

[Lucky Day]

Which community?

The hispanic community (my hometown is largely mexican but south florida is largely south and central american), black community, LGBTQ community and especially in the bent of underrepresentation in STEM.

However, living in South Florida in the current political environment, I've shifted my focus towards the undocumented immigrant community and I'm in the process of interviewing with a couple local organizations in that field. That's too early to really register though; I've moved back here just recently and I've recently identified that as the important local issue.

 

[gyngyn]

The hispanic community (my hometown is largely mexican but south florida is largely south and central american), black community, LGBTQ community and especially in the bent of underrepresentation in STEM.

However, living in South Florida in the current political environment, I've shifted my focus towards the undocumented immigrant community and I'm in the process of interviewing with a couple local organizations in that field. That's too early to really register though; I've moved back here just recently and I've recently identified that as the important local issue.

Do you speak Spanish?

 

[Lucky Day]

Most of the schools you applied to were far reach schools with your GPA. You should do better in the next application cycle especially with DO schools. Apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July.

Was I foolish to believe that the disparity/time between my pre-drop-out GPA and post-drop out GPA would be able to pull me through?

 

[efle]

What were the schools that interviewed you in the 1st and 2nd cycles?

 

[Lucky Day]

Do you speak Spanish?

At an intermediate level. My father is fluent, but my mother wasn't.

 

[Lucky Day]

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[efle]

Was I foolish to believe that the disparity/time between my pre-drop-out GPA and post-drop out GPA would be able to pull me through?

You had a 3.5 in the final semesters before applying, right? Even if they look past the initial 3.2x cGPA that 3.5 is on the lower end for a lot of these places.

I am surprised however that as URM with a 34 you had only one interview in each cycle

 

[efle]

FIU and Columbia (respectively).

Well, if you're getting a Columbia interview you must not have any giant red flags, they're very selective. Other than further grade repair the best bet is probably a list that aims a lot less top-heavy

 

[gyngyn]

At an intermediate level. My father is fluent, but my mother wasn't.

A person who represents an under-served community (as you indicated) and who uses their language skills to improve lives would be accepted to many fine schools with stats far weaker than yours.

I can only presume that something is not coming through in your narrative.
The UiM "boost" is not for reparation, it is for a validated commitment to service to an under-served community.

 

[Lucky Day]

You had a 3.5 in the final semesters before applying, right? Even if they look past the initial 3.2x cGPA that 3.5 is on the lower end for a lot of these places.

Yes.

I am surprised however that as URM with a 34 you had only one interview in each cycle

I am as well. I'm sure that sort of self-hubris is what has cause me such a delay now, though. That's why I'm asking for help. I just want to get back to the hospital.

 

[efle]

You mentioned applying on the late side - how late are we talking? Like complete in November, super late?

 

[Lucky Day]

A person who represents an under-served community (as you indicated) and who uses their language skills to improve lives would be accepted to many fine schools with stats far weaker than yours.

I can only presume that something is not coming through in your narrative.
The UiM "boost" is not for reparation, it is for a validated commitment to service to an under-served community.

While I am hispanic and have an affinity for said communities, I wouldn’t advertise myself as a representative of them in any internal sense. I’m definitely more of an accomplice/ally/advocate. In that regard, I try not to mislead others about that because I feel it would be ingenuine in a way that would hinder those who are.

 

[Lucky Day]

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[efle]

The above approach (while it's good to be honest) might explain why the URM status wasn't getting the usual response? Like did your AMCAS mention speaking Spanish, was your volunteering with that community?

 

[efle]

The first year, SUPER late. Probably half in the last week

OK yeah the first year having only your state school makes some sense.

Getting only interest from a single top 10 is a weird second cycle, don't know what to make of that.

My only advice for round three would be to aim a little lower, like half of your list above is extremely competitive schools

 

[Lucky Day]

The above approach (while it's good to be honest) might explain why the URM status wasn't getting the usual response? Like did your AMCAS mention speaking Spanish, was your volunteering with that community?

I have not used my spanish as a primary language in any community service.

EDIT: Misread, but yes, I did mark my intermediate level Spanish in my apps.

 

[Lucky Day]

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[Lucky Day]

@Faha @gyngyn @efle (or any others)

If I could ask that you all help me hone this in a little bit.

1. Is there any major step I can take towards improvement?

2. Is this simply a matter of ill conceived application lists and timing?

3. Does anything seem funky that would give pause for application invitation?

4. A popular statement here is "Medical schools are allergic to bad judgement." Am I an allergen? Does my reapps, MCAT retake, misdemeanor, dropping out or combination fit this mold?

Any other comments before I sign this convo out?

 

[Faha]

You just need to apply to a large number of appropriate MD and DO schools in June and submit all your secondaries by July.

 

[efle]

@Faha @gyngyn @efle (or any others)

If I could ask that you all help me hone this in a little bit.

1. Is there any major step I can take towards improvement?

2. Is this simply a matter of ill conceived application lists and timing?

3. Does anything seem funky that would give pause for application invitation?

4. A popular statement here is "Medical schools are allergic to bad judgement." Am I an allergen? Does my reapps, MCAT retake, misdemeanor, dropping out or combination fit this mold?

Any other comments before I sign this convo out?

Well lets see - you did great on the most recent MCAT, have tons and tons of clinical time, research box checked, some volunteering. If you were going to be taking a year off before trying again I'd say the GPA is the obvious target, but a 3.3 + URM isn't terrible considering the MCAT score. I think it's a matter of school list - on that last list above I think U Chicago, Yale, Columbia, Michigan, Duke, Mayo, Harvard, Emory, Case, Pitt, Northwestern were all deep into reach school territory and that's almost half the list. If you applied to a set of ~25 middle and lower it would help your odds a lot. Being complete in July instead of September would be helpful too

That said...it's very weird to me that 3.3/33 URM with your ECs complete in Sept got a single interview at a top 10 and nothing at all elsewhere. You are an odd case. Maybe others will see something I'm not that makes more sense of it

 

[gyngyn]

That said...it's very weird to me that 3.3/33 URM with your ECs complete in Sept got a single interview at a top 10 and nothing at all elsewhere. You are an odd case. Maybe others will see something I'm not that makes more sense of it

I see this pretty frequently. He has a list vs credentials mismatch. It's more of a "street cred" mismatch than stats, though.
The screener was looking for UiM and the committee didn't buy it.
He can still go to medical school. An application that reads the way OP writes in this thread would be well-received at plenty of schools.

 

[efle]

That...makes a lot of sense. If you take away the URM, then yeah OP you applied with a 66 LizzyM to a top-heavy list, it makes sense to have little success.

 

[Lucky Day]

Hey, thanks a lot folks. I really appreciate the advice and I'm ready to tackle the new cycle if need be (although I have high hopes for Columbia).

Just as a response to some of those things:
1. I think I may have been a little up sold by my advisor, who thought my list was maybe a little top heavy, but not fatally so. I suppose my applicant hubris costed me a couple years on this.
2. Yesterday, I rewrote my my experiences sections to help play up my "street cred." I stayed within bounds of what I'm comfortable with, but I gussied it up some and explicitly stated my goals to help those under represented in STEM many times over. I'm also removing a couple Awards type entries in favor of service/work entries.
3. I'll be following Faha's list, more or less. I'll still be keeping Duke, Columbia and Yale, even though they are far reaches. The "street cred" I definitely feel I have are as a biochem graduate of Columbia and a recipient of underrepresented minority fellowships through the HHMI and Yale (nomination only fellowship).

 

[Goro]

Add some DO schools to the list. Beggars can't be choosy.

Hey, thanks a lot folks. I really appreciate the advice and I'm ready to tackle the new cycle if need be (although I have high hopes for Columbia).

Just as a response to some of those things:
1. I think I may have been a little up sold by my advisor, who thought my list was maybe a little top heavy, but not fatally so. I suppose my applicant hubris costed me a couple years on this.
2. Yesterday, I rewrote my my experiences sections to help play up my "street cred." I stayed within bounds of what I'm comfortable with, but I gussied it up some and explicitly stated my goals to help those under represented in STEM many times over. I'm also removing a couple Awards type entries in favor of service/work entries.
3. I'll be following Faha's list, more or less. I'll still be keeping Duke, Columbia and Yale, even though they are far reaches. The "street cred" I definitely feel I have are as a biochem graduate of Columbia and a recipient of underrepresented minority fellowships through the HHMI and Yale (nomination only fellowship).

 

[Lucky Day]

Add some DO schools to the list. Beggars can't be choosy.

Absolutely. I've pirated some of Faha's recommendations for DO schools from other threads for applicant stats similar to myself. As follows:

1. NYITCOM
2. PCOM
3. Touro (NY and CA)
4. CCOM
5. LECOM (PA and FL)
6. Western
7. RVU
8. Edward Via (VA)
9. WVSOM
10. UP-KYCOM
11. Nova Southeastern Osteopathic

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Gollum1985]

I would add KCOM to the DO list. It was the founding DO school and has many alumni plus connections. Also with you being a 3 time applicant I would not even bother applying to Top 20 MD schools. Apply to all Florida schools, then look at private schools that emphasis caring for undeserved populations

 

[Lucky Day]

UPDATE:

I was accepted into USF just recently and have an upcoming interview at Nova MD!!!

I changed a lot of what I could, but I hit some major financial snags again this year. Ultimately, I chose to plod on and I really appreciate your advice, @Faha @gyngyn @efle @Goro .

Soon, I'm gonna scrub this thread for anonymity, turn this account permanent, change my user name and become a contributor so that I can try to help this forum from the other side of the application line, but I wanted to make sure I gave you folks your due appreciation. THANK YOU!

 

[gyngyn]

UPDATE:

I was accepted into USF just recently and have an upcoming interview at Nova MD!!!

I changed a lot of what I could, but I hit some major financial snags again this year. Ultimately, I chose to plod on and I really appreciate your advice, @Faha @gyngyn @efle @Goro .

Soon, I'm gonna scrub this thread for anonymity, turn this account permanent, change my user name and become a contributor so that I can try to help this forum from the other side of the application line, but I wanted to make sure I gave you folks your due appreciation. THANK YOU!

Yippee!

 

[Goro]

UPDATE:

I was accepted into USF just recently and have an upcoming interview at Nova MD!!!

I changed a lot of what I could, but I hit some major financial snags again this year. Ultimately, I chose to plod on and I really appreciate your advice, @Faha @gyngyn @efle @Goro .

Soon, I'm gonna scrub this thread for anonymity, turn this account permanent, change my user name and become a contributor so that I can try to help this forum from the other side of the application line, but I wanted to make sure I gave you folks your due appreciation. THANK YOU!

 

[Faha]

Congratulations!