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Tigerstang

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Where do experienced physicians and new docs go these days to look for jobs? When I graduated over a decade ago, it was all the ASTRO jobs board. Our group is located in a very favorable geographical location and is a private group, but we post on the ASTRO job board and get a handful of graduates at best. I understand the job market is competitive now, but I'm surprised by the few number of applicants especially compared to years past. Are most grads desiring academic positions? Are we posting in the wrong area? Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

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I tweet out openings, hit or miss

LinkedIn posts a lot of jobs not on Astro. Same with the other sites.

Email program directors

Message my friends and have them ask friends
 
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Astro jobs board is currently a disaster, but most of our ASTRO interviewees came through there.

Job offers went to people we got through word of mouth.
 
Where do experienced physicians and new docs go these days to look for jobs? When I graduated over a decade ago, it was all the ASTRO jobs board. Our group is located in a very favorable geographical location and is a private group, but we post on the ASTRO job board and get a handful of graduates at best. I understand the job market is competitive now, but I'm surprised by the few number of applicants especially compared to years past. Are most grads desiring academic positions? Are we posting in the wrong area? Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.
Haven't had any word of mouth hires through your practice over the years?
 
Are you a PP offering partnership?
 
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I still think ASTRO job board is king.

I'm surprised you're not getting many hits. Maybe it's your ad?

So happy to hear it's better from the days say five years ago when any post on the ASTRO site would get 80 applications, and the majority of the graduating residents I knew personally were taking jobs they didn't want out of desperation or not finding jobs at all.
 
All of our previous hires have been word of mouth. But it's a small pool
No bites from your partner/training network? If i needed to hire tomorrow i wouldn't have to go to Astro.

I know Texas oncology has hired people within the last few years and I've never seen a TOPA job posted at Astro in the last 5 years
 
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Are you a PP offering partnership?

To follow up on this, im aware of at least one PP trying to take advantage of perception of the job market and not offering partnership. In the case I’m aware of, that has proven to be a miscalculation and has not gone well.

If this is the case with your group, you will have to wait for someone desperate.
 
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A couple chairs I know have talked about having trouble filling satellite sites recently and I know offhand of a couple decent mid tier places having difficulty filling main sites. Not trying to say the job market is fine, but it looks like new grads can still be a little choosier than I thought at this point.
 
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Not sure how this anecdotal experience correlates but in general I’m seeing more people either working part-time or not working at all in multiple fields and career settings for an extended amount of time. I’m not sure how these people can afford to not have to work but I feel like I’m definitely missing out on something… are influencers/online gamers really making that much? Do most people today have large amounts of generational wealth?? Is my lifestyle creep too unsustainable???
 
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Not sure how this anecdotal experience correlates but in general I’m seeing more people either working part-time or not working at all in multiple fields and career settings for an extended amount of time. I’m not sure how these people can afford to not have to work but I feel like I’m definitely missing out on something… are influencers/online gamers really making that much? Do most people today have large amounts of generational wealth??
Dual income households with high earners?
 
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Dual income households with high earners?
Majority are or have worked in a professional setting but I have come across a variety of different types of people, many young (30’s-40) who appear to be in no hurry to work.

Again, this is extremely anecdotal but interesting. Maybe people don’t plan for retirement anymore or the people I’m meeting are all millionaires (bitcoin?) who knows!?
 
I don't know - I agree.

OTOH when I see young people hustle, really impresses me. Two doors down, there is the 10 year old kid that comes to my house looking for errands. Rake leaves, shovel snow, etc. Give em $20 or something and they do a better work than people we pay to do this kind of stuff. Their parents did something right.
 
A couple chairs I know have talked about having trouble filling satellite sites recently and I know offhand of a couple decent mid tier places having difficulty filling main sites. Not trying to say the job market is fine, but it looks like new grads can still be a little choosier than I thought at this point.

This year I watched at least 3 people walk away from amazing offers to take presumably amazinger offers (only 1 was with us). My jaw wouldve hit the floor if any of these offers had been made to me just 5 years ago in my first job. All very accomplished people and all the walks were well thought out, they will have great careers.

My "best" offer was from Rad Onc's most well known robber baron and I thought it was not so bad!

LOL times have changed. I have to admit, I enjoy the schadenfreude for the leaders of those toxic, abusive departments. It wont last.
 
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To follow up on this, im aware of at least one PP trying to take adv of perception of the job market and not offering partnership. In the case I’m aware of, that has proven to be a miscalculation and has not gone well.

If this is the case with your group, you will have to wait for someone desperate.

We are pro fees only, so "partnership" in this model is a bit deceiving. Our docs eat what they kill and we do not eat into their pro fees or make them pay 5-6 figures to "buy" into what is their own work product. That model never made sense to me.
 
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No bites from your partner/training network? If i needed to hire tomorrow i wouldn't have to go to Astro.

I know Texas oncology has hired people within the last few years and I've never seen a TOPA job posted at Astro in the last 5 years

My training program was small so not a big network.
 
LOL times have changed. I have to admit, I enjoy the schadenfreude for the leaders of those toxic, abusive departments. It wont last.

What I like about Millennials and Gen Z is that they have their values.

When you can live just fine on mid-5 figures expenses per year, why work for a system that you detest for 30 years, let’s say academic megaplex slave camp or PP with multiple tiers that exploits new hires?

FIRE movement is a beautiful thing.

My SO does like nice things but comp similar to physicians so it balances out.
 
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This year I watched at least 3 people walk away from amazing offers to take presumably amazinger offers (only 1 was with us). My jaw wouldve hit the floor if any of these offers had been made to me just 5 years ago in my first job. All very accomplished people and all the walks were well thought out, they will have great careers.

My "best" offer was from Rad Onc's most well known robber baron and I thought it was not so bad!

LOL times have changed. I have to admit, I enjoy the schadenfreude for the leaders of those toxic, abusive departments. It wont last.
It seems to me academia is a bit of a mixed bag. Mid level folks with funding seem to have no trouble moving around. The purely clinical folks…different story. Honestly don’t know how the new grads are making out. We had a run of them go for academics a few years back but the last couple years have all gone private. How are things for new grads from your perspective?
 
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It seems to me academia is a bit of a mixed bag. Mid level folks with funding seem to have no trouble moving around. The purely clinical folks…different story. Honestly don’t know how the new grads are making out. We had a run of them go for academics a few years back but the last couple years have all gone private. How are things for new grads from your perspective?

Interesting, I've had the opposite experience.

Clinical people have a lot more places where they can plug and play.

Research people have a lot of needs that select few places can accommodate and the stars then have to align for them to make a switch.

We've had the opposite here for new grads as well. There were several classes who were gung ho for private practice, now they're all thinking academics. In our area there are very few open jobs though, so they may be saying academics to get a job with us main center or satellite.
 
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It seems to me academia is a bit of a mixed bag. Mid level folks with funding seem to have no trouble moving around. The purely clinical folks…different story. Honestly don’t know how the new grads are making out. We had a run of them go for academics a few years back but the last couple years have all gone private. How are things for new grads from your perspective?
I think the majority of jobs now are employed academic or non-academic. I want to say vast majority.

Just some pure anecdote and opinion:

It really is a mixed bag and I try to remember that my first academic job experience seems uniquely bad, some places seem uniquely good (Mayo, UTSW pop out).

There seems to be this sentiment among the clinical folks that academics carries a risk of being essentially a less well paid non-academic clinical job. I have friends where this is definitely true; they are doing no research, carrying a non-academic load (15-20+ patients) and making academic money. I know 0 people that have stayed in jobs like this more than a couple years.

I don't hear a lot from people that are more experienced than me (5 years out), so not sure the experience for mid-career. The couple people I know had some mobility and seemed to do fine without funding. I dont really know anyone that is unhappy and couldn't move for occupational reasons. I know one person that left academics after 10 years as a specialist and struggled a little with becoming a generalist. I became a generalist about 4 years speciality practice and had no issues.

I dont think funding matters if you are mainly clinical. I had a lot of funding and no one cared, even among early talks with other academic centers (because I was seeking clinical jobs). It all stays with the institution so it doesnt add value for them. I think when people say research really matters for a primarily clinical person, even in academics, they are kind of telling a white lie to themselves. This cant be universally true YMMV.

It's kind of like a large anecdote, but I know a lot of folks that left academics for non-academic employed positions. This is just the most common available job I think versus private practice. The reasons always seemed to be some version of "I feel under appreciated". All these folks seem very happy now. I am in this bucket and do not miss academics at all.

I know several new grads that were treated pretty terribly in "private" practice so I am not sure that is a safe haven.

I also know a few people that seemed pretty unhappy, searched, decided to stay and/or their current place remedied their concerns. Love to see that.

For clinical people, the key really is clinical leadership way more than the label of the job. If you report to someone that treats new grads like a commodity, you're gonna have a bad time independent of the type of practice IMO.

I wish it became culturally unacceptable in our field to treat people this way, but clearly few care.
 
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