Reasonable approach to Rad Onc for someone who loves field but is aware of job market?

[medgator]

which were to simply to state that the effect of losing the SALT deduction isn't quite as dramatic as it was being made out to be.

You know what they say about opinions... Bottom line is tax reform under the current party has screwed high earners in blue states meaningfully to the point where they are looking at a realistic five figure hike annually in their tax bill going forward.

Five figures compounded annually is a lot of cheddar after a few decades. We get that you like the new tax bill. It doesn't change the facts we've discussed above based on a $625k job posted in upstate NY.

I'll ignore the rest of your ad hominem post

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[KHE88]

You know what they say about opinions... Bottom line is tax reform under the current party has screwed high earners in blue states meaningfully to the point where they are looking at a realistic five figure hike annually in their tax bill going forward.

Five figures compounded annually is a lot of cheddar after a few decades. We get that you like the new tax bill. It doesn't change the facts we've discussed above based on a $625k job posted in upstate NY.

I'll ignore the rest of your ad hominem post

Ad hominem post? How was my post an ad hominem? That's what you guys were doing to me! So calling out ad hominem attacks against yourself is an ad hominem itself? What in the world?

I never said that I liked the new tax bill. Never said that. Go back and read my post. Pointing out the fact that most people did get a tax cut when the media tried to spin it as "only the rich got a tax cut" does not mean that I liked the tax plan. Period.

Your repeated use of "5 figures" is a little dishonest. As I previously noted that ranges from $10,000 - $99,999
On a $450k income, that ranges from 2.2% to 22.2%. A factor of ten difference is large enough that it's worth making the distinction.

As I already demonstrated, the SALT cap results in about $8500 extra in tax burden for a $450k income.
Average property tax in New York on a $700,000 home (which I would consider reasonable for the purposes of this discussion) is $11,046/year. The national average is $8477/year. Yes, taxes are higher in New York, but is this as dramatic as you're making it out to be in the context of a $450k income?
Yes, "5 figures" in extra taxes but not by much.

The entire point of all of this was to simply demonstrate that it's not such as huge impact as some are implying, with other posters also mentioned. Yeah, I made a snarky comment about Bernie Sanders. So what? That wasn't directed at anybody in particular. Not sure why somebody decided to take a swipe at my intelligence, make a thinly veiled claim that I'm a racist by bringing something about Obama into this, and then try to pigeon-hole me as a Trumpian idiot. And then tell me I'm making an ad hominem post? Not cool.

If you want to post some numbers/scenarios about why the SALT reform is so dramatic as you state such that you wouldn't even consider a $450k/year job in upstate NY and reason that out, then I'll be glad to listen and consider it. But based on the numbers I ran myself, I'm just not seeing it.

 

[medgator]

I'm still at a loss as to how a $625k job turns into $450k job to KHE88, but it certainly makes the tax hit look a little less bad in that scenario, which maybe why he chose that figure in the first place.

'radiation OR oncology OR opening OR in OR nthern OR new OR yk OR STATECODE:"NY"' Jobs | ASTRO Radiation Oncology Career Center

3,430 'radiation OR oncology OR opening OR in OR nthern OR new OR yk OR STATECODE:

careers.astro.org

It seems like certain folks like to play loose with the facts. Seems to be a common problem these days given behavior of the leader of the free world.

 

[KHE88]

I'm still at a loss as to how a $625k job turns into $450k job to KHE88, but it certainly makes the tax hit look a little less bad in that scenario, which maybe why he chose that figure in the first place.

'radiation OR oncology OR opening OR in OR nthern OR new OR yk OR STATECODE:"NY"' Jobs | ASTRO Radiation Oncology Career Center

3,430 'radiation OR oncology OR opening OR in OR nthern OR new OR yk OR STATECODE:

careers.astro.org

It seems like certain folks like to play loose with the facts. Seems to be a common problem these days given behavior of the leader of the free world.

I apologize. I thought we were talking about a hypothetical $450k job in New York. It appears the 450k job you posted was actually in Iowa.
I entered the conversation after alligator made the comment "If i am going to go to upstate NY a 450k salary imo is not really that attractive"

So that's why I was talking about a 450k job.
I was not trying to play "loose with the facts."

But fine, let's look at a $625k job if you want to use that. I'd argue that even though the taxes are obviously more with that, it's kind of all gravy at that point and you are not going to notice any impact on your lifestyle at all. It's still a very small increase in the context of such a large salary. I can run the numbers again for you if you'd like (although it's easy enough to do yourself), but still we're talking about barely being in your "5 figures" category. If you want to explain what the numbers are and how that would hit your lifestyle so hard that you'd literally have to move, I'd love to see that rationale drawn out.

P.S. You guys are letting your TDS show with this constant theme of bringing Trump into everything. The question here is: Is the impact of SALT reform so severe on high earners that you wouldn't even consider a very high paying job in a state like NY? The question is not: Does Trump sometimes do bad things or say things that aren't true? I'll agree with you on this as I think almost virtually any sane person would but it has literally nothing to do with the former.

I also find it pretty hilarious that I, clearly a more conservative voice here, am arguing that these higher taxes really aren't that big of a deal, while the leftists and progressives are throwing a fit and saying there's absolutely no way they would live in such a highly taxed state, complaining about how much the tax changes hurt high earners, and are more fixated on lowering their tax burden while simultaneously stating that the tax changes benefited high earners the most. What, you don't want to pay for all those programs you support? But I digress...

 

[deleted18755]

Can you guys take the discussion private or agree to disagree? I forgot what this thread was about . . . I somehow learned more about geography (and taxes?) from the latter part of this thread then anything related to radiation oncology.

 

[radiaterMike]

Wow. This thread turned into ... something. Anyways - my added 2 cents. People have been fleeing or avoiding high taxed states for decades. You either you choose to live in a high taxed state or you don’t. Yes the SALT meddling by Trump adversely affected those states he doesn’t care about. But I don’t think that this is the tipping point for someone choosing this job over one in Delaware or Florida. Perhaps the overall tax burden of living in NY will impact one’s decision - but that is not a new issue.

 

[PleaseRemainCalm]

Wow. This thread turned into ... something. Anyways - my added 2 cents. People have been fleeing or avoiding high taxed states for decades. You either you choose to live in a high taxed state or you don’t. Yes the SALT meddling by Trump adversely affected those states he doesn’t care about. But I don’t think that this is the tipping point for someone choosing this job over one in Delaware or Florida. Perhaps the overall tax burden of living in NY will impact one’s decision - but that is not a new issue.

My biased opinion is that young people with disposable income who decide where to live primarily based on tax burden are not the norm. If we were all that financially motivated we'd be knocking down the doors to get those rural southern and midwestern jobs with high salaries and low income taxes and home prices.

 

[Hurthle7]

Actually, a lot of this discussion about SALT isn't completely accurate. The new Trump tax bill for the most part didn't drastically increase overall taxes on moderately high-income earners like physicians in states with high taxes (New York, New Jersey, California, etc.) despite the changes in SALT-deductions. The reason for this is that in the previous tax system, almost everyone in these states making between about $150,000-$600,000 actually was taxed according to the alternative minimum tax system (AMT), which doesn't allow any SALT deductions (including state tax, property tax, etc.). The only deductions allowed in the alternative minimum tax system are mortgage interest and a few other random things. The Trump tax bill, while limiting the SALT deduction to $10,000, also completely changed the alternative minimum tax thresholds such that very few people are now subject to it. Together, the changes in SALT and AMT combined to be about a wash for most moderately high-income earners in these states in terms of total tax burden. It is true that marginal tax rates are higher, since the upper income marginal tax rate in the AMT was 28%, where in the standard system it is now 37%, but in the AMT you get $0 in SALT deduction, and now you get $10,000. The changes in SALT really only have a big impact people making enough money that they were out of the AMT system in the previous system (approximately >$550,000-$700,000 depending on the amount of deductions someone has). In summary, anyone who thinks that changes in the new tax bill has had a big effect on the take home pay for a radiation oncologist in these states misunderstands the tax system (past and/or present).

 

[evilbooyaa]

Holy crap guys. Take the political discussions to SPF. Locking the thread as it has veered so incredibly off-topic. Warnings handed out to users who were directly antagonistic to other SDN users.

You are allowed to disagree with other SDN members. You should maintain respect for one another. Again, the whole "act like the opposite person was physically in front of you" bit.