Reapplicant-strongly in need of good advice moving forward/improving

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

I am a re-applicant, IS, applied to every school in Texas (except Baylor). I did not apply out of state because I am desperate to stay here where my 10mo son is, as he could not come with me.

Long story short, I suck. Elaboration: I never cared about school, basically made straight B's (though never a C, 2 accidental F's) without even showing up for most the classes except for tests. Took one free practice MCAT test and made a 30 (untimed) which I considered good enough, and took the MCAT in January 2014 without studying. I was totally unprepared for the time constraint, had to guess on multiple questions as time ran out on 2 of the sections, got my score back in february of a 25 (7p,8bio,10vr), sh** myself, immediately registered to take it again beginning of May though I was in 5 classes, studied when I could on the weekends over the 2months with a TPR book I got from barnes n nobles. I got a 31 and was happy I was able to get by (like I had been doing my entire academic life). I applied thinking I would have a 3.56GPA, did not realize they would count everything, including non-related classes, including two F's I received my first year in random classes because I thought I dropped them and never went back to class again. TMDSAS calculated my cGPA to actually be 3.1. Catalyzing the shame, I found out I was having a child and I had a life changing epiphany: I was a piece of sh** that was wasting my life; I took nothing seriously, I thought I could scrape by with minimal effort and things would work out anyway; I was ashamed by the terrible role model for my son. I didn't even bother to update my TDMSAS with Fall grades and instead devoted myself fully to improving and trying next (this) year.

I made straight A's my last two semesters (32hrs), took the new MCAT in June after studying for a month straight and scored a 516 (128pc, 129cars, 131bio, 128psych). I applied early- primary done in May, but the new MCAT-scores released on 7/21. All secondaries completed by mid-june as well. I still haven't heard anything from any school, and while I know there is still time, I anticipate I will have to reapply next cycle (3rd ). What can I do to improve my application the most with only half a year or so? I work in a pathology lab right now M-F, so I only really have the weekends.

Current Application Summary:
cGPA: 3.32
sGPA: 3.37
MCAT: 25, 31, 516
EC: I was a TA my last semester for college, I worked for 4 years as a nurses aide in nearly every possible clinical setting (ER, ICU, medsurge, neuro, surgery, telemetry, etc.) while I was in college, shadowed for a few months, observed a CABG surgery, volunteered with meals on wheals, salvation army, American heart association, cystic fibrosis foundation, tutored (still do) physics/math and biology for 2 years.

My premed advisor thinks taking undergrad classes would be a waste of time and instead advises I should go get a masters and reapply in 2 years. I tend to agree with the former, because I calculated that even taking 2 classes in the winter and 5 in the spring all A's, my cGPA would still only be 3.42 or something. I don't want to get a masters Ill never use. I have looked into Post-Bacc programs and there really is only one in Texas that would fit the time line, but I don't know how I could do it while working, or pay for it/living expenses/reapplication costs. What should I do to make the most meaningful improvement by May?

Also: please spare me the harsh criticism and judgement that I already recognize. I cannot change the past; I am sincerely trying to figure out how to most efficiently use what time I have.

Thanks in advance!

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[texan2414]

@anotherneuroticpremed92

Its 3:00 AM yet I feel compelled to post back to you.

First off, congratulations on making it this far. You’ve handled both personal and academic challenges wonderfully and have demonstrated persistence in your reapplication. It takes a lot of tenacity to take the MCAT not twice but 3x!!!

I am a similar applicant as you. I applied in 2013 during a bad personal crisis. Needless to say, when I got my MCAT score of 25 back, I was taken aback and knew I had zero chance even with a near perfect 3.97 GPA. The 2013 application ended in failure and I knew I had to reapply and retake the MCAT. My personal crises heightened in 2014 but I still managed to plow through and finish my degree and graduated in May 2014. Since I had decided to reapply, I had contacted admissions officers at Texas A&M, UTMB, Tech Lubbock, and even went to Reapplicant Seminar at UTH. One of the admissions deans told me straight up that if it wasn’t for my MCAT, I would be an entering student that year. This gave me so much confidence and optimism that I was finally able to put aside my setbacks and I retook MCAT last Nov and scored a 31 (superscore 32). I was really proud of my improvement and was enthusiastically looking forward to reapplication in 2015.

Throughout the time period, I continued to gain more exposure by shadowing specialties I hadn’t observed before and really enjoyed Neurology. I wasn’t volunteering heavily but sporadically. One of the first set backs came with my HPAC which delayed my application to mid-June, and I wasn’t able to submit TMDSAS until late June. I was transmitted to all schools by mid-July (having received Under Review emails, etc.) and completed the secondaries as well.

Like you, I have not heard back from ANY school so far. I have contacted some of the schools multiple times to ask any status updates but everyone is reluctant to offer any further knowledge of my application. They tell me to keep waiting… By now, my application has been Under Review for nearly 3 months. It’s preposterous to think that it’s still “Under Review” status this long but what do I know…

I’m writing to you because I want to tell you that you cannot lose hope. Last year, I was facing the same dread of not improving and God-forbid dropping my MCAT score. But I had the inner confidence and persevered through. I know I have to do the same now.

Many of the TX schools (UTRGV, UTH, UTSA, Tech Lubbock, El-Paso, and perhaps UTSW) will be interviewing through January. That’s actually a lot of time to be hopeful for!!!

Do not give up on this cycle. I myself am considering writing pre-interview letters and sending them out to schools later this month. I think you should do the same.

Some possible backups definitely include doing a post-bacc/SMP. But really make sure you are able to give your 100% to these programs.


Wishing you all the best.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Do pre-interview letters actually work?

 

[texan2414]

Do pre-interview letters actually work?

It may help it may not. But u won't know either way if u don't write one.

 

[gyngyn]

Do pre-interview letters actually work?

Not that I know of.

 

[studentdocftw]

GPA is too low for MD. Post bacc, or apply broadly to DO schools if you want to be a doctor.

 

[Goro]

No. Medical schools get 5000-10000+ apps every year. Why should a love letter impress any Admissions dean?

OP, your best chances will be with the TX schools, especially TCOM. IF you get shut out this cycle, retake all F/D/C sciences coursework and aim for DO schools.

Do pre-interview letters actually work?

 

[GrapesofRath]

There's no point applying to any MD school outside of Texas. Did you apply to all of the TX ones?

If you get shut out this cycle there are two options a) go for DO's. You'll do fine there. b) If you want to go all in for an MD do an SMP. A generic typical masters will do absolutely nothing; you need an SMP where you are taking med school classes. Hopefully that's what your adviser was talking about. I agree a post-bacc really serves no purpose at this point; you already have an upward trend. The difference between a 3.42 and 3.34 isn't going to get you in vs keep you out of med school.

Btw it is still early in the cycle. And given your MCAT didn't come out until the end of July your app wasn't reviewed super early. If you really want to start med school next year add DO applications now. IT's not too late. If you don't hear anything from MD's by January/February and are still boning for the MD I would start giving consideration to an SMP perhaps.

 

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

@anotherneuroticpremed92

Its 3:00 AM yet I feel compelled to post back to you.

First off, congratulations on making it this far. You’ve handled both personal and academic challenges wonderfully and have demonstrated persistence in your reapplication. It takes a lot of tenacity to take the MCAT not twice but 3x!!!

I am a similar applicant as you. I applied in 2013 during a bad personal crisis. Needless to say, when I got my MCAT score of 25 back, I was taken aback and knew I had zero chance even with a near perfect 3.97 GPA. The 2013 application ended in failure and I knew I had to reapply and retake the MCAT. My personal crises heightened in 2014 but I still managed to plow through and finish my degree and graduated in May 2014. Since I had decided to reapply, I had contacted admissions officers at Texas A&M, UTMB, Tech Lubbock, and even went to Reapplicant Seminar at UTH. One of the admissions deans told me straight up that if it wasn’t for my MCAT, I would be an entering student that year. This gave me so much confidence and optimism that I was finally able to put aside my setbacks and I retook MCAT last Nov and scored a 31 (superscore 32). I was really proud of my improvement and was enthusiastically looking forward to reapplication in 2015.

Throughout the time period, I continued to gain more exposure by shadowing specialties I hadn’t observed before and really enjoyed Neurology. I wasn’t volunteering heavily but sporadically. One of the first set backs came with my HPAC which delayed my application to mid-June, and I wasn’t able to submit TMDSAS until late June. I was transmitted to all schools by mid-July (having received Under Review emails, etc.) and completed the secondaries as well.

Like you, I have not heard back from ANY school so far. I have contacted some of the schools multiple times to ask any status updates but everyone is reluctant to offer any further knowledge of my application. They tell me to keep waiting… By now, my application has been Under Review for nearly 3 months. It’s preposterous to think that it’s still “Under Review” status this long but what do I know…

I’m writing to you because I want to tell you that you cannot lose hope. Last year, I was facing the same dread of not improving and God-forbid dropping my MCAT score. But I had the inner confidence and persevered through. I know I have to do the same now.

Many of the TX schools (UTRGV, UTH, UTSA, Tech Lubbock, El-Paso, and perhaps UTSW) will be interviewing through January. That’s actually a lot of time to be hopeful for!!!

Do not give up on this cycle. I myself am considering writing pre-interview letters and sending them out to schools later this month. I think you should do the same.

Some possible backups definitely include doing a post-bacc/SMP. But really make sure you are able to give your 100% to these programs.


Wishing you all the best.

I really appreciate you taking the time to tell me your story and for the encouragement. With your GPA and your improved MCAT/EC's you are VERY competitive; it does provide some hope to know that if you haven't heard anything with your application, maybe I still have a chance. Best of luck to you!

 

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

There's no point applying to any MD school outside of Texas. Did you apply to all of the TX ones?

If you get shut out this cycle there are two options a) go for DO's. You'll do fine there. b) If you want to go all in for an MD do an SMP. A generic typical masters will do absolutely nothing; you need an SMP where you are taking med school classes. Hopefully that's what your adviser was talking about. I agree a post-bacc really serves no purpose at this point; you already have an upward trend. The difference between a 3.42 and 3.34 isn't going to get you in vs keep you out of med school.

Btw it is still early in the cycle. And given your MCAT didn't come out until the end of July your app wasn't reviewed super early. If you really want to start med school next year add DO applications now. IT's not too late. If you don't hear anything from MD's by January/February and are still boning for the MD I would start giving consideration to an SMP perhaps.

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into it!

 

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

GPA is too low for MD. Post bacc, or apply broadly to DO schools if you want to be a doctor.

That is a very narrowminded and untrue view point. Firstly, scoring in the 95th percentile overall/99th bio on the new mcat and my upward trend in GPA should reassure my intellectual capacity is not adequately demonstrated by the low cGPA.

Secondly, according to MSAR there are plenty of people who get in with even Lower GPA's than I do at MD's, including most of the schools that I applied to. While I appreciate your input, I disagree with it.

 

[GrapesofRath]

That is a very narrowminded and untrue view point. Firstly, scoring in the 95th percentile overall/99th bio on the new mcat and my upward trend in GPA should reassure my intellectual capacity is not adequately demonstrated by the low cGPA.

Secondly, according to MSAR there are plenty of people who get in with even Lower GPA's than I do at MD's, including most of the schools that I applied to. While I appreciate your input, I disagree with it.

As always there's a middle ground. Your GPA is below the 10th percentile at many of these schools. There's no debating that. Your 3 MCAT attempts complicates things and a number of schools will simply average those scores and itll come out as something equivalent to a 30-31. For schools that average, a 3.3/30 applicant just is not all that appealing regardless of any upward trend. Your upward trend works in your favor. All in all, you have a chance. How much, I guess you'll find out in a couple months, but your app has its strengths and its weaknesses. Those weaknesses aren't nearly as significant for DO admission.

 

[arc5005]

Why can't your son come with you? I think limiting yourself to MD Texas programs is a problem. You could apply broadly to DO programs, if your main goal is to become a physician.

 

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

As always there's a middle ground. Your GPA is below the 10th percentile at many of these schools. There's no debating that. Your 3 MCAT attempts complicates things and a number of schools will simply average those scores and itll come out as something equivalent to a 30-31. For schools that average, a 3.3/30 applicant just is not all that appealing regardless of any upward trend. Your upward trend works in your favor. All in all, you have a chance. How much, I guess you'll find out in a couple months, but your app has its strengths and its weaknesses. Those weaknesses aren't nearly as significant for DO admission.

Naturally, there is a middle ground. Such is the reason I made this post to begin with. I recognize both that I am a subpar applicant, and yet that there is a chance. My objection was to the black and white attitude toward GPA.

I can't speak for others, and I do not intend to sound arrogant or dismissive of the varying degrees of difficulty between universities, but for me undergrad was pathetically easy, which is also why it is pathetic that my GPA is so low. There were times where I put myself in a situation due to skipping Lab/assignments where to make a B I would have to make a 98 on the final; I would study for a night or two and pull it off. I know GPA is one of the most important, if not the most important aspect of your application, as it shows your ability to commit to school and succeed at it. However, I would also like to think they do not put so much stock in a number that represents cumulative effort. My last two years GPA is around 3.8. Even the MCAT was only as difficult as I made it. I am fully confident that if I opted to take 2 months of straight studying, I could retake again the MCAT and make 520+. Surely, committees can recognize there is a gray area that numbers cannot express.

 

[texan2414]

As always there's a middle ground. Your GPA is below the 10th percentile at many of these schools. There's no debating that. Your 3 MCAT attempts complicates things and a number of schools will simply average those scores and itll come out as something equivalent to a 30-31. For schools that average, a 3.3/30 applicant just is not all that appealing regardless of any upward trend. Your upward trend works in your favor. All in all, you have a chance. How much, I guess you'll find out in a couple months, but your app has its strengths and its weaknesses. Those weaknesses aren't nearly as significant for DO admission.

I love how as a pre-medical student, you are so qualified to comment on not only the MD admissions, but also DO.

 

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

I love how as a pre-medical student, you are so qualified to comment on not only the MD admissions, but also DO.

I don't get what you take issue with. What he said about DO schools is objectively true. Most calculate GPA differently (grade replacement), and the stats for matriculates are objectively lower. This is not to say DO's are inferior or anything else, its just a fact.

 

[texan2414]

I don't get what you take issue with. What he said about DO schools is objectively true. Most calculate GPA differently (grade replacement), and the stats for matriculates are objectively lower. This is not to say DO's are inferior or anything else, its just a fact.

What I can't stand are the types of pre-med students who think they are qualified to comment on whatever weaknesses they perceive to be related to admissions.
I personally know multiple ORM candidates who had 3.0-3.3 GPA with a decent MCAT score who are now MS1, MS2 at good TX MD schools. I know if they had posted similarly on SDN, they would be met with the same unwarranted criticism and face judgment by people who are not admission committee members.

By the way, your retort when you asserted that your MCAT gives you a good chance to argue why you should not be misjudged intellectually was liked by LizzyM - take of that what you may!!

 

[winterwind_23]

I graduated with a 3.3 GPA, did a DYI postbacc, and raised my GPA to 3.4. I have a similar MCAT to OP, though it only took me one sitting to get the score. I have three MD acceptances already this cycle, and have 9 interviews completed/scheduled so far. N=1, but a 3.3 GPA does not prevent you from getting into medical school.

 

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

What I can't stand are the types of pre-med students who think they are qualified to comment on whatever weaknesses they perceive to be related to admissions.
I personally know multiple ORM candidates who had 3.0-3.3 GPA with a decent MCAT score who are now MS1, MS2 at good TX MD schools. I know if they had posted similarly on SDN, they would be met with the same unwarranted criticism and face judgment by people who are not admission committee members.

By the way, your retort when you asserted that your MCAT gives you a good chance to argue why you should not be misjudged intellectually was liked by LizzyM - take of that what you may!!

Ah I see. I completely agree that many premeds think they know more than they do, and are quick to judge harshly. There ares too many variations between schools and what they look for to speak matter of factually about chances. But his critique that my GPA is a weak point of my application is warranted and I accept that consequence of my actions.

 

[SSJimmer7]

Ah I see. I completely agree that many premeds think they know more than they do, and are quick to judge harshly. There ares too many variations between schools and what they look for to speak matter of factually about chances. But his critique that my GPA is a weak point of my application is warranted and I accept that consequence of my actions.

@studentdocftw seems pretty misinformed

to piggyback on @winterwind_23 's story I'll share my own:

I graduated with a 3.36 cumulative gpa/ 3.40 science gpa, scored in the 91st percentile on the MCAT and am a second time applicant. Since graduating in 2013, I have volunteered, done a bit of research, and completed a 1-year MS program at Columbia University (feel free to PM me if you want more details on the program). So far this cycle, I have had 8 interviews and have been accepted at 3 schools (again feel free to PM me if you want details on the schools/help building a list of schools to apply to if you have to reapply...although I'm sincerely hoping you won't have to). I think someone with life experience and maturity, like yourself, is exactly what medicine needs. Please don't be discouraged by people on this site! Sending you my best and please don't hesitate to reach out!

 

[DokterMom]

Looking at your application, what I would see is a highly intelligent but ?? immature/entitled/lazy/impulsive ?? applicant who is capable of doing quite well, but who has not demonstrated a track record of sustained effort and consistent high achievement -- in short, one who may give up or flake out when the going gets tough (as it will in medical school). And unfortunately, the only remedy for that is time and demonstrated consistent effort.

What I would want to see is that the student who skipped lectures, crammed for exams and didn't bother to drop classes has been replaced by someone mature and responsible who does not rely on short cuts. How can you show that?

A personal statement that shows this kind of personal growth and maturation would also be important. "Young and stupid" is cliche for a reason; and it's forgivable, so long as you own it, admit it, and demonstrate that it no longer applies.

 

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

Looking at your application, what I would see is a highly intelligent but ?? immature/entitled/lazy/impulsive ?? applicant who is capable of doing quite well, but who has not demonstrated a track record of sustained effort and consistent high achievement -- in short, one who may give up or flake out when the going gets tough (as it will in medical school). And unfortunately, the only remedy for that is time and demonstrated consistent effort.

What I would want to see is that the student who skipped lectures, crammed for exams and didn't bother to drop classes has been replaced by someone mature and responsible who does not rely on short cuts. How can you show that?

A personal statement that shows this kind of personal growth and maturation would also be important. "Young and stupid" is cliche for a reason; and it's forgivable, so long as you own it, admit it, and demonstrate that it no longer applies.

I completely agree. While there is no denying my immaturity, I would say that my past is more reflective of my attitude towards school. It might sound odd to say (or crazy) but I utterly hated school as an institution. I never partied; I'm not even remotely a socialite, I didn't get "caught up in the college life." Most of the time that I skipped classes, I sat at home and read philosophy, watched debates, or played video games with my brother. I loved to learn, but I felt that high school and undergrad college was nothing more than a trivial hoop to jump through in order to get your name written on a piece of paper that says you did it. I resented that. I also despised the seemingly inherent elitism. I went to 5 different high schools (moved several times, and expelled from one for decrying the schools doctrine), only to graduate from an unaccredited school, then had to get a GED. What I gained from a "privileged" private christian school education was the realization that symbols were more important than nearly anything else. The students who wore Wal-Mart brand uniforms were ridiculed. The females laughed at knock-off purses that could not have cost even a third of their genuine artifacts. The students regularly engaged in immodest conversation about their grades; discussions of what top ranked colleges they would attend, the money and status they would enjoy, their patronizing gestures about the inevitable careers of others revolted me. I was introduced to an ideology that I would find everywhere as I grew up. I experienced it in the condescension of having a GED, of attending community college, or a no name university, of certain majors, and of working certain jobs (dishwasher). I realized that to apparently most people, your worth is equated to what symbols you hide behind. I watched as people obsessively clung to expensive tangibles, compulsively comparing themselves and what they have to others. What I saw were individuals who were desperate to feel important in a universe that hardly notices their existence. To climb into a sixty thousand dollar car made them special; it garnered due attention; to attend an ivy league would make them extraordinary. But I did not think so. I wanted nothing to do with it. I felt I had nothing to prove, and all I wanted was to get the degree so I could move on to something I would enjoy. I am not denying at all that I am a fool for not recognizing that hoops must be jumped through, period; that I should have cared enough about my life and future to apply myself. But genuinely, it was not because I was lazy- I have had a job nearly non-stop since I was 15- it was because I did not care at all.


Anyway, I really do appreciate your input. I actually received my first interview invite this week, so I am extremely excited and I hope that I will not have to reapply. That said, I also have already developed a detailed plan of what I will do. It does include taking more classes to convey a sustained effort and demonstration of academic success.

Farewell

 

[anotherneuroticpremed92]

@studentdocftw seems pretty misinformed

to piggyback on @winterwind_23 's story I'll share my own:

I graduated with a 3.36 cumulative gpa/ 3.40 science gpa, scored in the 91st percentile on the MCAT and am a second time applicant. Since graduating in 2013, I have volunteered, done a bit of research, and completed a 1-year MS program at Columbia University (feel free to PM me if you want more details on the program). So far this cycle, I have had 8 interviews and have been accepted at 3 schools (again feel free to PM me if you want details on the schools/help building a list of schools to apply to if you have to reapply...although I'm sincerely hoping you won't have to). I think someone with life experience and maturity, like yourself, is exactly what medicine needs. Please don't be discouraged by people on this site! Sending you my best and please don't hesitate to reach out!

I read your response earlier this week and it really brightened my mood and outlook. There is so much negativity for some reason among premeds, and I had been feeling increasingly down on myself for not having a better history to tell. Thank you, truly, for taking the time along with winterwind_23 to share your story(ies). Two days after your post I received my first interview invite. Even if it does not result in an acceptance this year, it reignited a sense of excitement for the future. Your encouraging words did the same. I am confident that wherever you decide to go to school, you will be an exceptional physician, because you are already trying to touch peoples lives.

Best of luck to you and your experience of life

 

[DokterMom]

Anyway, I really do appreciate your input. I actually received my first interview invite this week, so I am extremely excited and I hope that I will not have to reapply. That said, I also have already developed a detailed plan of what I will do. It does include taking more classes to convey a sustained effort and demonstration of academic success.

Congratulations on the interview invite! I'm delighted to hear it.

There is much truth in your earlier rant -- symbols and the desperate clawing for status, as if meaning can be found in a Mercedes... Very 'Catcher in the Rye'. But as you've come to realize, certain hoops must be jumped through to reach your goals. Once you reach them, you're free to disregard the hoops and craft the life you want for yourself. But until then, you must acknowledge the game, and to some extent, play it.

It sounds like you will prefer the relatively unstructured format of medical school (if this school does NOT have mandatory attendance) to traditional -- but I'd temper your disdain for the entire educational institution during your interviews. OK - disdain for high school is acceptable. And for certain aspects of undergrad.

But please be sure to clarify and illustrate why this disdain will not apply in medical school --