Reapplicant advice/school list assistance

[johnsonthehopeful]

Hello all. I've used SDN for years, but after an unsuccessful app cycle this year, I've decided to finally ask for some assistance. I only applied to a few schools last cycle, but I thought I would just give it a shot since I had AAMC Fee Assistance. In hindsight, I shouldn't have applied last year.

About me: I'm a female URM from Texas with a Liberal Arts degree from a T20 undergrad, and I'm now pushing 30. I have thousands of hours of clinical experience and research experience, hundreds of hours of volunteering with the same few organizations, plenty of leadership/strong ECs, and great rec letters (at least the ones I have read) from professors and physicians I have worked with. I come from a low SES background.

Last cycle:

• 3.39 GPA, 2.7 sGPA
• 50x MCAT retake, rescheduled 10000000x due to COVID

This cycle:

• 3.39 GPA --> 3.47 GPA, 2.7 sGPA --> 3.2 sGPA
• I will have finished 30 hours of postbac science classes at the end of this semester and am anticipating that I'll uphold my 4.0 postbac GPA. I retook some classes I previously got a C- in and also took some new classes. All of my classes count towards AACOMAS' science GPA. A few of those hours may not count towards TMDSAS' BCPM GPA- I know my stats are still too low for most TMDSAS schools, so my plan has been to focus on AACOMAS
• 50x MCAT retake. I physically couldn't find the time to study for another retake while working full time and also being a full time student
• Hopefully will have a publication by the time the cycle opens, under review currently. Either way, I have a bunch more research hours
• I have some DO shadowing hours now but no DO rec letter, just MD letters

I'm rewriting my essays and secondaries, of course, but are there even any schools that would consider me with my stats? I guess I'm looking for guidance on if I should even apply this cycle, even though I really don't want to wait another year. Starting next cycle I would be eligible for Academic Fresh Start, which is my plan if this cycle is unsuccessful or doesn't seem feasible to go through with. And if it's not unreasonable to apply this cycle, how do I go about making a school list as a reapplicant with a do-it-yourself postbac and no new formal degree? I'm happy to be guided to links on this kind of info if that's already been answered, as I'm sure it has, I just can't seem to find information that specific.

Thank you!

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[chilly_md]

You have shown you are a better student and really raised your science GPA. I would recommend the following DO schools:

TCOM
UIWSOM
Sam Houston
NYIT-AR
ACOM
WCU-COM
WVSOM
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia
TUNCOM
MU-COM
VCOM (I believe you meet the cut-offs but double check)

You can try TMDAS MD schools as well. Some other schools may also be receptive as they reward students who remake themselves through post-bacc classes and are non-trads:

TCU-UNT
VCU
EVMS
NOVA MD
Miami
Creighton
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
Drexel
Temple
Seton Hall
New York Medical College
Vermont
Quinnipiac

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

You have shown you are a better student and really raised your science GPA. I would recommend the following DO schools:

TCOM
UIWSOM
Sam Houston
NYIT-AR
ACOM
WCU-COM
WVSOM
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia
TUNCOM
MU-COM
VCOM (I believe you meet the cut-offs but double check)

You can try TMDAS MD schools as well. Some other schools may also be receptive as they reward students who remake themselves through post-bacc classes and are non-trads:

TCU-UNT
VCU
EVMS
NOVA MD
Miami
Creighton
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
Drexel
Temple
Seton Hall
New York Medical College
Vermont
Quinnipiac

I didn't expect anyone to give me a suggested school list, but this is so helpful! I also appreciate the positivity. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[wysdoc]

I didn't expect anyone to give me a suggested school list, but this is so helpful! I also appreciate the positivity. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I don’t think I can be quite as optimistic about your chances at most of the TX schools, due to your MCAT of 501.
For the TMDSAS MD schools, University of Houston and UTRGV are the only ones somewhat likely to give you a chance. Also apply to SHSU, a DO school that uses the TMDSAS.
You could try TCU on AMCAS if your profile fits their “empathetic scholar” and great communicator mold, but be aware that they have pre-requisites of Physiology and Genetics, which no other TX school requires.
If you are from the African American community, apply to all the HBCUs on AMCAS.
Last of all, I think your best chances are at DO schools.

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

I don’t think I can be quite as optimistic about your chances at most of the TX schools, due to your MCAT of 501.
For the TMDSAS MD schools, University of Houston and UTRGV are the only ones somewhat likely to give you a chance. Also apply to SHSU, a DO school that uses the TMDSAS.
You could try TCU on AMCAS if your profile fits their “empathetic scholar” and great communicator mold, but be aware that they have pre-requisites of Physiology and Genetics, which no other TX school requires.
If you are from the African American community, apply to all the HBCUs on AMCAS.
Last of all, I think your best chances are at DO schools.

I appreciate your candor, and don't worry, I'm not naive to think my MCAT is anywhere near those of the Texas MD schools' averages 😬. I planned to apply to all of them because it's all under one umbrella, and I don't mind putting in the extra time for secondaries, even though I know many of them will go unread for many of the schools.

I definitely think my best chance is at DO schools at this point. I think I'll go through with this cycle and see if I have any luck, and if I don't, I'll plan for another cycle and focus primarily on the MCAT since my GPA is no longer the weakest point of my application.

Re: TCU, after reading more about their applicant profile, I think it would be fair to say I could fit that mold. I have a lot of experience volunteering at a school for undocumented students. One of my parents fled a dictatorship and arrived in the US without knowing any English and eventually became an ESL Teaching Assistant, so that school was kind of my second home growing up. I also have a story of an immediate family member who suffers from mental illness and heart disease who was treated at one of TCU's affiliated hospitals by a doctor that I would call an Empathetic Scholar, but I'm unsure if I would want to mention that for fear of it coming across as some kind of sob story. Re: the prerequisites, the only class I don't have is Physio, which I would happily take this summer. I suppose there would be a benefit to showing that that course is in process when I send in my application?

Thanks for your input!

 

[wysdoc]

I appreciate your candor, and don't worry, I'm not naive to think my MCAT is anywhere near those of the Texas MD schools' averages 😬. I planned to apply to all of them because it's all under one umbrella, and I don't mind putting in the extra time for secondaries, even though I know many of them will go unread for many of the schools.

I definitely think my best chance is at DO schools at this point. I think I'll go through with this cycle and see if I have any luck, and if I don't, I'll plan for another cycle and focus primarily on the MCAT since my GPA is no longer the weakest point of my application.

Re: TCU, after reading more about their applicant profile, I think it would be fair to say I could fit that mold. I have a lot of experience volunteering at a school for undocumented students. One of my parents fled a dictatorship and arrived in the US without knowing any English and eventually became an ESL Teaching Assistant, so that school was kind of my second home growing up. I also have a story of an immediate family member who suffers from mental illness and heart disease who was treated at one of TCU's affiliated hospitals by a doctor that I would call an Empathetic Scholar, but I'm unsure if I would want to mention that for fear of it coming across as some kind of sob story. Re: the prerequisites, the only class I don't have is Physio, which I would happily take this summer. I suppose there would be a benefit to showing that that course is in process when I send in my application?

Thanks for your input!

TCU will sometimes ask applicants they choose for a secondary application about their pre-reqs. As long as you have plans to take it before matriculating that would be fine. They do screen by reading your primary app and only send out a limited number of invitations to do their secondary.

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

TCU will sometimes ask applicants they choose for a secondary application about their pre-reqs. As long as you have plans to take it before matriculating that would be fine. They do screen by reading your primary app and only send out a limited number of invitations to do their secondary.

I should mention that I received and completed their secondary last July. I knew it was a huge stretch, but both TCOM and TCU are high on the list of schools I would love to attend. Fingers crossed I'll receive an invite again and can give more targeted responses about why I think I'd be a good fit. Thanks again, I really appreciate your help.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I can't speak to AACOMAS, but respectfully I don't think you'll get into any of the TMDSAS schools this upcoming cycle. Even if you focus on AACOMAS, depending on what you want to do in medicine, you may not want to attend many of the schools the take applications through AACOMAS, and the ones that would be commendable may not be the ones where you get accepted. There are several MD schools that'll scrap your entire transcript and just accept your most recent 30 hours for consideration, but even then, your MCAT is detrimental to your chances.

I think your best bet is applying to and starting a SMP this upcoming summer. Read the post in my signature for some more context as someone that did a DIY post-bacc.

I can recommend UNT's SMP as a strong program to consider.

 

[wysdoc]

I can't speak to AACOMAS, but respectfully I don't think you'll get into any of the TMDSAS schools this upcoming cycle. Even if you focus on AACOMAS, depending on what you want to do in medicine, you may not want to attend many of the schools the take applications through AACOMAS, and the ones that would be commendable may not be the ones where you get accepted. There are several MD schools that'll scrap your entire transcript and just accept your most recent 30 hours for consideration, but even then, your MCAT is detrimental to your chances.

I think your best bet is applying to and starting a SMP this upcoming summer. Read the post in my signature for some more context as someone that did a DIY post-bacc.

I can recommend UNT's SMP as a strong program to consider.

Good advice @Darrow O'Lykos - it seems the OP has already done 30 postbac hours with a 4.0 which will help their reinventor story.

 

[Faha]

Which URM community are you from ? If Hispanic, are you fluent in Spanish ?

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

Good advice @Darrow O'Lykos - it seems the OP has already done 30 postbac hours with a 4.0 which will help their reinventor story.

Would you agree that I need a program like UNT's SMP to be seriously considered?

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

Which URM community are you from ? If Hispanic, are you fluent in Spanish ?

I am Hispanic and Native American, but I don't have documentation for the latter so I don't plan to claim it. I am fluent in Spanish and 2 other languages. I'm trying to learn medical Spanish on my own as well because I do want to work with international communities in the US (and eventually outside of the US).

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Good advice @Darrow O'Lykos - it seems the OP has already done 30 postbac hours with a 4.0 which will help their reinventor story.

N=1, but I aced ~30hours post-bacc with a better starting GPA and MCAT and only got 2 Texas interviews and 1 acceptance post-match (which actually ended up being a deferred admission offer).

It only takes 1 A, but OP is in a deeper hole than I was. Current post-bacc work is commendable, but I’d advise strongly considering a SMP this upcoming academic year to avoid this dragging out into a 4 year process like mine was. Especially with the low MCAT.

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

I can't speak to AACOMAS, but respectfully I don't think you'll get into any of the TMDSAS schools this upcoming cycle. Even if you focus on AACOMAS, depending on what you want to do in medicine, you may not want to attend many of the schools the take applications through AACOMAS, and the ones that would be commendable may not be the ones where you get accepted. There are several MD schools that'll scrap your entire transcript and just accept your most recent 30 hours for consideration, but even then, your MCAT is detrimental to your chances.

I think your best bet is applying to and starting a SMP this upcoming summer. Read the post in my signature for some more context as someone that did a DIY post-bacc.

I can recommend UNT's SMP as a strong program to consider.

I just read your post and am now feeling the need to reconsider. Were you only interested in MD schools, and did you apply very broadly?

I have definitely considered a SMP and wish it was feasible for me, but I really don't think I can do it. I live at home and help my parent with rent/utilities/groceries every month as they cannot afford to live there without my assistance. Ultimately, I'll do anything necessary to get a fair shot, but it would be very hard for me to do so as I am working full time on top of classes to make ends meet and think it would be even harder to work at all while completing a SMP.

I have plenty more classes I could take throughout the year, probably something around another 20-30 hours worth, and it would cost around 5k rather than 46k.

I guess the other option would be to take out additional loans on top of the SMP loans and help with rent that way, just adding to the debt I will have incurred. I never really thought of that as an option since I thought my postbac work would be sufficient.

Thanks for the input. It's hard to read but it's definitely valuable.

 

[Faha]

I am Hispanic and Native American, but I don't have documentation for the latter so I don't plan to claim it. I am fluent in Spanish and 2 other languages. I'm trying to learn medical Spanish on my own as well because I do want to work with international communities in the US (and eventually outside of the US).

Your best chances are at DO schools and I suggest these:
TCOM
SAM HOUSTON STATE
UIWSOM
OSU-COM
BCOM
TUNCOM
WCU-COM
NYIT-AR
ACOM
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia
WVSOM
UP-KYCOM
MU-COM
LECOM (all schools)
LMU-DCOM
ARCOM
Noorda-COM
Kansas (new school)
Many of these schools have MCAT medians in the 498 to 502 range so you could receive interviews.
You could receive interviews at some MD schools and I suggest these:
Your TMDSAS schools
TCU-UNT
Creighton
Loyola
Rush
Medical College Wisconsin
Wayne State
NOVA MD
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Hackensack
New York Medical College
Vermont
Quinnipiac

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I just read your post and am now feeling the need to reconsider. Were you only interested in MD schools, and did you apply very broadly?

I applied to a ton of AMCAS schools, all the TMDSAS schools, and no AACOMAS schools.

I have definitely considered a SMP and wish it was feasible for me, but I really don't think I can do it. I live at home and help my parent with rent/utilities/groceries every month as they cannot afford to live there without my assistance.

As someone that helped a single parent with their mortgage, I can totally empathize with you on this front. But quite frankly, if you had an acceptance to med school right now to start this upcoming summer, would you turn it down for the sake of helping your parent with their finances? It's not a pretty picture, but ultimately you and your parent need to prepare for the reality that the day will come you won't be in that position. You can help 10x over if needed after your medical training is complete.

Also consider that each year you delay medical school (voluntarily or not), you are losing an entire year’s salary at the level of an attending physician.

UNT does have an online cohort option for their SMP that could be really good for your situation that wouldn't require you to move. However, you won't be able to work and still excel in a SMP.

I have plenty more classes I could take throughout the year, probably something around another 20-30 hours worth, and it would cost around 5k rather than 46k.

A difference of 40k may seem like a lot now, but that small of a delta in cost will be negligible once you're an attending physician. And you can certainly try that route, but that also doesn't address your low MCAT, which will still hold you back from the vast majority of medical schools.

Also of note: SMPs like the one at UNT include built-in, rigorous MCAT tutoring and prep, which quite frankly you could probably benefit from, as it is not just your GPA holding you back.

I guess the other option would be to take out additional loans on top of the SMP loans and help with rent that way, just adding to the debt I will have incurred. I never really thought of that as an option since I thought my postbac work would be sufficient.

The assumption for SMPs is that you would take out loans and consider it as part of your debt accumulated for med school. However, if you're able to get into a Texas school, your debt from the SMP + all 4 years of med school will still be significantly less than the debt you'd take on for any AACOMAS school.

Thanks for the input. It's hard to read but it's definitely valuable.

No problem. The heart of SDN is to help people accomplish their dreams. I hope you're able to reflect on what you need to do and get to accomplish yours.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

To the OP, have you taken time to connect with students who are leaders of SNMA? Have you gotten connected with any mentors who help minority applicants? I just want to be sure you have broadened your networking though I can understand the challenges you have had. I do think the aggregate advice you have gotten is good here and showed how sometimes the process can be very frustrating. But I am hopeful you are a great fit somewhere.

Do your homework with all the help TxHES gives TMDSAS applicants.

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

I applied to a ton of AMCAS schools, all the TMDSAS schools, and no AACOMAS schools.

As someone that helped a single parent with their mortgage, I can totally empathize with you on this front. But quite frankly, if you had an acceptance to med school right now to start this upcoming summer, would you turn it down for the sake of helping your parent with their finances? It's not a pretty picture, but ultimately you and your parent need to prepare for the reality that the day will come you won't be in that position. You can help 10x over if needed after your medical training is complete.

Also consider that each year you delay medical school (voluntarily or not), you are losing an entire year’s salary at the level of an attending physician.

UNT does have an online cohort option for their SMP that could be really good for your situation that wouldn't require you to move. However, you won't be able to work and still excel in a SMP.

A difference of 40k may seem like a lot now, but that small of a delta in cost will be negligible once you're an attending physician. And you can certainly try that route, but that also doesn't address your low MCAT, which will still hold you back from the vast majority of medical schools.

Also of note: SMPs like the one at UNT include built-in, rigorous MCAT tutoring and prep, which quite frankly you could probably benefit from, as it is not just your GPA holding you back.

The assumption for SMPs is that you would take out loans and consider it as part of your debt accumulated for med school. However, if you're able to get into a Texas school, your debt from the SMP + all 4 years of med school will still be significantly less than the debt you'd take on for any AACOMAS school.


No problem. The heart of SDN is to help people accomplish their dreams. I hope you're able to reflect on what you need to do and get to accomplish yours.

I'll definitely need to consider that option now. The time is flying by.

I know my MCAT score was low, and I'm sure people have tons of excuses for it, but what separated my previous undergraduate performance versus how I'm doing now is that I finally got an official diagnosis for ADHD, (my school counselor suggested it when I was in junior high but we couldn't afford the evaluation at the time) and getting time accomodations for it has been life-changing. I never finished my exams during undergrad; I didn't realize that could be related to ADHD, I just thought I was a poor test-taker. If I end up skipping this cycle or if I apply and don't have any luck, I'll definitely plan to retake the MCAT and am already in the process of applying for extended time for the MCAT because I read it can take several months. I actually felt that my mastery of the material was pretty good when I previously tested, but I ran out of time on every section except P/S. That said, it would definitely be nice to have an organized MCAT tutoring/prep option, because I think the threshold for how well I could perform would increase even further.

Thanks again! There's a lot of food for thought here.

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

To the OP, have you taken time to connect with students who are leaders of SNMA? Have you gotten connected with any mentors who help minority applicants? I just want to be sure you have broadened your networking though I can understand the challenges you have had. I do think the aggregate advice you have gotten is good here and showed how sometimes the process can be very frustrating. But I am hopeful you are a great fit somewhere.

Do your homework with all the help TxHES gives TMDSAS applicants.

Honestly, I don't know how, but I had never heard of SNMA until you mentioned it. I just looked into it and am going to get connected with someone ASAP! I'll also be looking further into TxHES. Thank you so much.

 

[LongRoad2potential]

I am Hispanic and Native American, but I don't have documentation for the latter so I don't plan to claim it. I am fluent in Spanish and 2 other languages. I'm trying to learn medical Spanish on my own as well because I do want to work with international communities in the US (and eventually outside of the US).

My $0.02...

-Being fluent Spanish you 100% need to include the 4 schools in Puerto Rico. Most people forget that those are in fact American schools. They would all be in my top 10 of I was bilingual.

-Taking a semester off after you finish your post bacc to focus on MCAT would do way more to boost your chances than taking a course that makes you eligible at one extra school.

-SMP are great for and you should definitely have a plan to take one as a backup for not getting in this next cycle. Best of it's at a school you already have a reasonable chance of getting into and they take that affiliation into account.

+1 to applying to HBCUs

- Finally, with a grain of salt (and a wedge of lime), my top recommendation outside what is previously mentioned is UNECOM. Solid program that honestly could use more diversity.

 

[Z2911BME]

Hello all. I've used SDN for years, but after an unsuccessful app cycle this year, I've decided to finally ask for some assistance. I only applied to a few schools last cycle, but I thought I would just give it a shot since I had AAMC Fee Assistance. In hindsight, I shouldn't have applied last year.

About me: I'm a female URM from Texas with a Liberal Arts degree from a T20 undergrad, and I'm now pushing 30. I have thousands of hours of clinical experience and research experience, hundreds of hours of volunteering with the same few organizations, plenty of leadership/strong ECs, and great rec letters (at least the ones I have read) from professors and physicians I have worked with. I come from a low SES background.

Last cycle:

• 3.39 GPA, 2.7 sGPA
• 501 MCAT retake from 498, rescheduled 10000000x due to COVID

This cycle:

• 3.39 GPA --> 3.47 GPA, 2.7 sGPA --> 3.2 sGPA
• I will have finished 30 hours of postbac science classes at the end of this semester and am anticipating that I'll uphold my 4.0 postbac GPA. I retook some classes I previously got a C- in and also took some new classes. All of my classes count towards AACOMAS' science GPA. A few of those hours may not count towards TMDSAS' BCPM GPA- I know my stats are still too low for most TMDSAS schools, so my plan has been to focus on AACOMAS
• 501 MCAT retake from 498. I physically couldn't find the time to study for another retake while working full time and also being a full time student
• Hopefully will have a publication by the time the cycle opens, under review currently. Either way, I have a bunch more research hours
• I have some DO shadowing hours now but no DO rec letter, just MD letters

I'm rewriting my essays and secondaries, of course, but are there even any schools that would consider me with my stats? I guess I'm looking for guidance on if I should even apply this cycle, even though I really don't want to wait another year. Starting next cycle I would be eligible for Academic Fresh Start, which is my plan if this cycle is unsuccessful or doesn't seem feasible to go through with. And if it's not unreasonable to apply this cycle, how do I go about making a school list as a reapplicant with a do-it-yourself postbac and no new formal degree? I'm happy to be guided to links on this kind of info if that's already been answered, as I'm sure it has, I just can't seem to find information that specific.

Thank you!

The reinvention of your GPA between undergrad and post-bacc will bode well for you. The unfortunate reality with applying to medical school is that there are 1,000’s and 1,000’s of applicants with really great GPAs and MCAT scores who do not get into medical school - obviously for a number of reasons but I’m guessing a large part of that is the sheer volume of applicants who all look the same on paper. The other reason is probably not applying broadly.

I began medical school at the age of 34 and have no problem understanding that I will not complete residency until at minimum 41-42 but probably more like 45 based on specialty interests I have - the point is that when I look back on my life hopefully many years from now I want to say I did what I loved and was called to do.

Why am I saying this?

1. Postponing a year and trying to improve your MCAT score can be valuable. You’re obviously capable, motivated, and could do it with a little extra time - I worked full-time during undergrad and it’s exhausting to have to study for that thing of an exam - so without the school courses over the year I’m sure you’ll do well.

2. If you’re applying DO…I would urge you to acquire a LOR from a DO. I can’t stress this enough. Residency directors of less competitive programs (based on stats not difficulty of work - people take that the wrong way all the time lol) don’t want to look at an application that says, “I tried for one thing but you’re my backup.” That’s straight from the residency directors mouth of a very well established IM program. Same principle with medical schools can be applied I’m sure but I’m not an ADCOM so I can’t speak definitively on that topic.

These two things can overcome the low sGPA albeit you’ve done a DIY post-bacc.

Take some time to think about your application as a whole. Does it stand out with something unique? Will you get overlooked because of something like a LOR not from a DO? Will you be able to afford another cycle if this one doesn’t work out?

Good luck and praying for your success!

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

My $0.02...

-Being fluent Spanish you 100% need to include the 4 schools in Puerto Rico. Most people forget that those are in fact American schools. They would all be in my top 10 of I was bilingual.

-Taking a semester off after you finish your post bacc to focus on MCAT would do way more to boost your chances than taking a course that makes you eligible at one extra school.

-SMP are great for and you should definitely have a plan to take one as a backup for not getting in this next cycle. Best of it's at a school you already have a reasonable chance of getting into and they take that affiliation into account.

+1 to applying to HBCUs

- Finally, with a grain of salt (and a wedge of lime), my top recommendation outside what is previously mentioned is UNECOM. Solid program that honestly could use more diversity.

More information I wasn't really privy to! I thought the schools in PR were kind of off-limits to anyone not from there. I'm definitely going to add them to my list, or at least some of them, after doing my research!

I appreciate all of this input. I will also consider the HBCUs; I'm afraid of encroaching on a space that isn't mine, but I will look into that further as well.

And I have to ask, why the tequila shot for UNECOM? I guess I'm not familiar if they've been name-and-shamed or if there's some glaring negative thing about the program.

Thanks a bunch!

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

The reinvention of your GPA between undergrad and post-bacc will bode well for you. The unfortunate reality with applying to medical school is that there are 1,000’s and 1,000’s of applicants with really great GPAs and MCAT scores who do not get into medical school - obviously for a number of reasons but I’m guessing a large part of that is the sheer volume of applicants who all look the same on paper. The other reason is probably not applying broadly.

I began medical school at the age of 34 and have no problem understanding that I will not complete residency until at minimum 41-42 but probably more like 45 based on specialty interests I have - the point is that when I look back on my life hopefully many years from now I want to say I did what I loved and was called to do.

Why am I saying this?

1. Postponing a year and trying to improve your MCAT score can be valuable. You’re obviously capable, motivated, and could do it with a little extra time - I worked full-time during undergrad and it’s exhausting to have to study for that thing of an exam - so without the school courses over the year I’m sure you’ll do well.

2. If you’re applying DO…I would urge you to acquire a LOR from a DO. I can’t stress this enough. Residency directors of less competitive programs (based on stats not difficulty of work - people take that the wrong way all the time lol) don’t want to look at an application that says, “I tried for one thing but you’re my backup.” That’s straight from the residency directors mouth of a very well established IM program. Same principle with medical schools can be applied I’m sure but I’m not an ADCOM so I can’t speak definitively on that topic.

These two things can overcome the low sGPA albeit you’ve done a DIY post-bacc.

Take some time to think about your application as a whole. Does it stand out with something unique? Will you get overlooked because of something like a LOR not from a DO? Will you be able to afford another cycle if this one doesn’t work out?

Good luck and praying for your success!

Maaaaaan, I don't know if I'll heed your advice re: postponing another year, but after gaining insight from your (and everyone else's) comments, I am really going to consider it. I do think I could very likely perform significantly better with another year and have a chance at some schools that will likely not even consider my app this cycle.

Re: a DO rec letter, I did shadow a DO in radonc but only for a brief period of time due to COVID. I actually had met him a few times prior at a monthly hospital cancer conference I attended with the doc I previously worked for, and I asked him for a letter, knowing full well he may not be willing given how briefly I shadowed him. He did seem to like/respect me and actually let me do some dose mapping (I don't know the term) after a few days (and yes, I know that's resident grunt work - he even told me - but I was happy to do it! Anyway, I wasn't able to ask him in person for a letter and had to send him an email, to which he never replied. Again, I didn't expect one from him because it was such a short period of time.

Right now I physically don't have the time to shadow a DO unless I could find a DO working ER nights, and I imagine it wouldn't look good asking to shadow a DO with less than a month before this cycle opens? I will say that if it comes time for a third cycle/if I hold off this year, I should be able to find someone to shadow in a more sustained manner.

I appreciate the input and the luck! I'll need it!

 

[DO_or_Die]

Hello all. I've used SDN for years, but after an unsuccessful app cycle this year, I've decided to finally ask for some assistance. I only applied to a few schools last cycle, but I thought I would just give it a shot since I had AAMC Fee Assistance. In hindsight, I shouldn't have applied last year.

About me: I'm a female URM from Texas with a Liberal Arts degree from a T20 undergrad, and I'm now pushing 30. I have thousands of hours of clinical experience and research experience, hundreds of hours of volunteering with the same few organizations, plenty of leadership/strong ECs, and great rec letters (at least the ones I have read) from professors and physicians I have worked with. I come from a low SES background.

Last cycle:

• 3.39 GPA, 2.7 sGPA
• 501 MCAT retake from 498, rescheduled 10000000x due to COVID

This cycle:

• 3.39 GPA --> 3.47 GPA, 2.7 sGPA --> 3.2 sGPA
• I will have finished 30 hours of postbac science classes at the end of this semester and am anticipating that I'll uphold my 4.0 postbac GPA. I retook some classes I previously got a C- in and also took some new classes. All of my classes count towards AACOMAS' science GPA. A few of those hours may not count towards TMDSAS' BCPM GPA- I know my stats are still too low for most TMDSAS schools, so my plan has been to focus on AACOMAS
• 501 MCAT retake from 498. I physically couldn't find the time to study for another retake while working full time and also being a full time student
• Hopefully will have a publication by the time the cycle opens, under review currently. Either way, I have a bunch more research hours
• I have some DO shadowing hours now but no DO rec letter, just MD letters

I'm rewriting my essays and secondaries, of course, but are there even any schools that would consider me with my stats? I guess I'm looking for guidance on if I should even apply this cycle, even though I really don't want to wait another year. Starting next cycle I would be eligible for Academic Fresh Start, which is my plan if this cycle is unsuccessful or doesn't seem feasible to go through with. And if it's not unreasonable to apply this cycle, how do I go about making a school list as a reapplicant with a do-it-yourself postbac and no new formal degree? I'm happy to be guided to links on this kind of info if that's already been answered, as I'm sure it has, I just can't seem to find information that specific.

Thank you!

I can only recommend DO schools. I'm non-trad also but your MCAT/GPA are lethal for MD schools. I think your MCAT is enough to get into a DO school though! I would NOT postpone a year because you haven't shadowed a DO. You can always shadow a DO this summer and then update that on your application. What you have on your side is you can apply early in the cycle and you've shown an upward trend as a student. Good luck!

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

I can only recommend DO schools. I'm non-trad also but your MCAT/GPA are lethal for MD schools. I think your MCAT is enough to get into a DO school though! I would NOT postpone a year because you haven't shadowed a DO. You can always shadow a DO this summer and then update that on your application. What you have on your side is you can apply early in the cycle and you've shown an upward trend as a student. Good luck!

I actually did shadow a DO, I just didn't procure a DO letter. I definitely will be applying to DO schools this cycle if I do apply. I really like the DO philosophy. It's still currently my plan to apply this cycle, but that may change. I appreciate your input!

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

Your best chances are at DO schools and I suggest these:
TCOM
SAM HOUSTON STATE
UIWSOM
OSU-COM
BCOM
TUNCOM
WCU-COM
NYIT-AR
ACOM
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia
WVSOM
UP-KYCOM
MU-COM
LECOM (all schools)
LMU-DCOM
ARCOM
Noorda-COM
Kansas (new school)
Many of these schools have MCAT medians in the 498 to 502 range so you could receive interviews.
You could receive interviews at some MD schools and I suggest these:
Your TMDSAS schools
TCU-UNT
Creighton
Loyola
Rush
Medical College Wisconsin
Wayne State
NOVA MD
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Hackensack
New York Medical College
Vermont
Quinnipiac

Got an A from a school on this list!! Thanks for the guidance, all, but especially you!

 

[Faha]

Got an A from a school on this list!! Thanks for the guidance, all, but especially you!

Congratulations !!! MD or DO acceptance ?

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

Congratulations !!! MD or DO acceptance ?

Thanks, Faha!! It was DO. I also just had an interview last week from another DO school on this list and I think it went well. This time last year, I had 7 MD rejections. So far I'm at 2 rejections (Indiana and Tulane) and 1 interview hold. We shall see what this cycle holds!

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

Congratulations !!! MD or DO acceptance ?

Hey, Faha! I'm back again with an update. I've been accepted to Noorda and LMU-DCOM and have now interviewed at one of the MD schools you suggested as well (decision pending)!

Any advice on Noorda vs LMU-DCOM? Lots of people have told me that it's a no-brainer to choose DCOM since Noorda is new and still in pre-accreditation, (aka no federal loans until M4) but I'm not so sure. Noorda is research-focused and also has an awareness that many of the students might be interested in specialties, two aspects that are important to me. I've talked to a lot of students at DCOM who have some pretty harsh things to say about the lack of support for students, having to travel for rotations, high attrition and turnover rate, not to mention that they're still under heightened monitoring. Noorda's rotations are all within 40 min of campus and the students seem genuinely happy and supported.

Or, even more generally: what's your take on the concerns of being part of the third class of a medical school when it comes to auditions/residency apps? I think I'd be happier at Noorda, but I don't want to set myself up for a steeper uphill battle in the future either.

 

[Faha]

Hey, Faha! I'm back again with an update. I've been accepted to Noorda and LMU-DCOM and have now interviewed at one of the MD schools you suggested as well (decision pending)!

Any advice on Noorda vs LMU-DCOM? Lots of people have told me that it's a no-brainer to choose DCOM since Noorda is new and still in pre-accreditation, (aka no federal loans until M4) but I'm not so sure. Noorda is research-focused and also has an awareness that many of the students might be interested in specialties, two aspects that are important to me. I've talked to a lot of students at DCOM who have some pretty harsh things to say about the lack of support for students, having to travel for rotations, high attrition and turnover rate, not to mention that they're still under heightened monitoring. Noorda's rotations are all within 40 min of campus and the students seem genuinely happy and supported.

Or, even more generally: what's your take on the concerns of being part of the third class of a medical school when it comes to auditions/residency apps? I think I'd be happier at Noorda, but I don't want to set myself up for a steeper uphill battle in the future either.

If the students are that unhappy at LMU-DCOM, then Noorda is a better choice. You will probably receive more DO interview so update here in the Spring.

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

If the students are that unhappy at LMU-DCOM, then Noorda is a better choice. You will probably receive more DO interview so update here in the Spring.

Thanks for the response, Faha. I hope I'll get some more DO love as well. Will update y'all in the new year!

I think I needed a last little push to finalize my decision. I had a moment of clarity on my way home from clinic yesterday and have decided (barring some final details on loans) to go with Noorda.

To the others who saw my comments about my concerns about LMU-DCOM and sent me DMs with your concerns, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to freak anyone out! This has not been an effortless decision-making process for me, and I'm sure there's been personal bias involved in my choice, so I'd like to clarify some things.

First, the DCOM students I spoke with said they made it work for them/think things are improving/etc. and said they would have chosen DCOM over a new school. DCOM has been under heightened monitoring, and someone I spoke with said they felt that has been a good thing for DCOM, as it's made the faculty/admin make sure they are addressing the issues and making improvements.

Everyone has their reasons for what program is right for them. I was pulled toward Noorda for its research focus, curriculum organization, flipped classroom model, focus on wellness (and not in the performative sense of having mandatory modules) and third-year rotations within 40 minutes of campus. I'm highly interested in research and think I want to go into a specialty, and Noorda seems to be actively supportive of that. On the other hand, I was nervous about the lack of federal financial aid until M4, the significant LDS population as a non-LDS member, and the lack of history to know what the match might look like.

LMU-DCOM is more primary-care focused (though if you look at their match list, they do still match well into some specialties), doesn't have an active research focus (though you can definitely do research there), and the students have voiced concerns about attrition/turnover, etc. On the other hand, DCOM is more established and is working on its issues. My potential classmates there seem truly lovely, and I get the feeling that the students are really a family. So if there's not as much support from faculty/admin, you can find that support in your classmates. There are lots of student life/student org opportunities at DCOM that I'm really sad to miss out on as well! The faculty I have interacted with have been great, so I get the impression that they're on the up and up. And ultimately, the DCOM students said they felt their education prepared them well, which is of course the most important factor of all.

I'm sure that there will be issues with Noorda as they become more established - there are only so many students so far who are going through the med school process there, so they don't have the experiences with third or fourth year to even voice their concerns/complaints. Noorda is definitely a bigger (balanced) risk, but ultimately I feel it's the right choice for me. However, that's not the same for everyone!

At the end of the day, no school is perfect, but they all give you the opportunity to become a physician. I think so much of the rest of it is what you make of it.

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

Congratulations !!! MD or DO acceptance ?

Another update here - got absolutely no love from Texas schools, but I got an OOS MD acceptance from your list (and 3 DO acceptances)!

 

[MCAThiccy]

YAY!!!!! I'm so happy! Congrats doctor!!!!!! <3 <3 <3

 

[Faha]

Another update here - got absolutely no love from Texas schools, but I got an OOS MD acceptance from your list (and 3 DO acceptances)!

Congratulations !!!

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

YAY!!!!! I'm so happy! Congrats doctor!!!!!!

Thanks Thiccy! I think you might have also been accepted to the school I’m attending, but I believe you’re going elsewhere. Best of luck to you moving forward!!!

 

[johnsonthehopeful]

Congratulations !!!

Thanks, Faha!! I really appreciated your (and everyone else’s) input!