Real talk : Salary for a d.p.t !!

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DezGetsMoney

DezGetsMoney

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OK!! LETS STOP THE GAMES. LETS GET SOME REAL SALARY FIGURES FOR A NEW GRAD WITH A ( D.P.T.).

FROM WHAT I BEEN HEARING YOU START AT 80K:oops::oops:

ANY INPUT????

Code:
LezBeHonest
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What a classy post...
 
According to SDN, 45-100k lol. That's the minimum and max according to everyone out there hahaha. Sorry I couldn't really contribute, I start my first semester this fall.
 
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DezGetsMoney said:
OK!! LETS STOP THE GAMES. LETS GET SOME REAL SALARY FIGURES FOR A NEW GRAD WITH A ( D.P.T.).

FROM WHAT I BEEN HEARING YOU START AT 80K:oops::oops:

ANY INPUT????

LezBeHonest
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I'm currently earning $215,000/year
 
goyo1010 said:
I'm currently earning $215,000/year
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The sad thing is I knew a massage therapist who claimed he made over 200k. Was it the truth? I do not know. He worked with a couple of chiropractors.
 
Jarrodmac10 said:
The sad thing is I knew a massage therapist who claimed he made over 200k. Was it the truth? I do not know. He worked with a couple of chiropractors.
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200,000/52 weeks = $3846/wk

$3846/6 days = $641/day (6 day work week)

So, could a massage therapist make $64/hr for 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 52 weeks a year? Perhaps, but that seems like an awful lot. A lot of massage (60 hours/week), and a lot of dollars.

Now, if he had other massage therapists working under him, maybe. But still doubt it.
 
facetguy said:
200,000/52 weeks = $3846/wk

$3846/6 days = $641/day (6 day work week)

So, could a massage therapist make $64/hr for 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 52 weeks a year? Perhaps, but that seems like an awful lot. A lot of massage (60 hours/week), and a lot of dollars.

Now, if he had other massage therapists working under him, maybe. But still doubt it.
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I would put in the hours for a salary like that. Doing what I love for that much cash flow, c'mon man!!
 
I met a massage therapist who made that kind of money. Very entrepreneurial and had made a name for himself within high-end fitness clubs in NYC. One regular client got a massage in their home 5 mornings a week at $250 bucks a pop. 5 days per week X 52 weeks per year X $250 dollars a session = $65,000 from one client.

Not bad, but there aren't a whole lot of people who will pay that rate (and the more you're running around to people's upscale homes, the less time you have to get in more clients). He still ended up giving an insane number of massages over the years, favoring deep tissue work which he viewed as more worthwhile. He'd been doing this a couple of decades by the time I met him. I saw what that volume of work had done to his hands. Not pretty. He made a very good living, but he had to earn every penny.
 
I think you should double check that math because I'm getting $36,000
 
Shyster said:
I think you should double check that math because I'm getting $36,000
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I see $65k, but I would not want to work 52 weeks a year [though I'm sure it was just a broad estimation]. I could be wrong without a calc., however.

Is the initial post by someone's 2nd account or something? Haha...
 
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Azimuthal said:
I see $65k, but I would not want to work 52 weeks a year [though I'm sure it was just a broad estimation]. I could be wrong without a calc., however.

Is this post by someone's 2nd account or something? Haha...
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Yep. He probably wasn't doing it every week. M-F he was up in Connecticut to start the day with the client. It was just an interesting experience to meet the guy. Someone who's earning far, far beyond what people with similar credentials and training earn. But he had to work harder than most people would ever want to, and even then he could trace his success back to one fortuitous referral in the mid-90's that put him in a circle of movers and shakers.

I think the numbers are right. But I could wrong. I enjoy math that involves arcane symbols, but I've never been great at arithmetic.
 
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Azimuthal said:
I see $65k, but I would not want to work 52 weeks a year [though I'm sure it was just a broad estimation]. I could be wrong without a calc., however.

Is the initial post by someone's 2nd account or something? Haha...
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My mistake actually....but it still comes out to be 60K and not 65K since it's not being done 7 days a week.
 
Yeah from what I am seeing looking at a good 80K to 90K is what it is


Thankx

#DPTclassof2017
 
Shyster, I think you need a new calculator LOL

I have heard starting salaries from recent grads that range from 48K at outpatient clinics near the university where there is a flood of PT grads to 90K if you are willing to move to an area where it is less desirable to live for many, eg. McAllen, TX (will need to know spanish).

The best average I have seen for my area is 60K - 65K as a new grad.
 
johncronejr said:
Shyster, I think you need a new calculator LOL

I have heard starting salaries from recent grads that range from 48K at outpatient clinics near the university where there is a flood of PT grads to 90K if you are willing to move to an area where it is less desirable to live for many, eg. McAllen, TX (will need to know spanish).

The best average I have seen for my area is 60K - 65K as a new grad.
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Really?? That doesn't agree with the link I posted above, at all.
 
Jarrodmac10 said:
Really?? That doesn't agree with the link I posted above, at all.
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Maybe I am missing something on that BLS link you posted but I don't see any stats for starting salaries, mostly it's the mean (average), which I wouldn't think would apply to new grads. I did download one of the spreadsheets of by-state stats and looked at the 10th percentile numbers (which is probably more representative of where new grads would fall) and averaged it across all the states and it came out to $54700/year. Like I said, maybe there's something on that BLS site I'm overlooking? :confused:
 
The BLS does not publish the differentiation between years of experience or specialty. I don't know of anyone who does, not even onet (where many HR managers go to compare salary and wages). If someone knows, please share.

Where I volunteered in the SF Bay Area, new PT's are offered ~$25/hr after graduation and capped at less than ~$34/hr after licensure and hiring review.
 
ptootles said:
Maybe I am missing something on that BLS link you posted but I don't see any stats for starting salaries, mostly it's the mean (average), which I wouldn't think would apply to new grads. I did download one of the spreadsheets of by-state stats and looked at the 10th percentile numbers (which is probably more representative of where new grads would fall) and averaged it across all the states and it came out to $54700/year. Like I said, maybe there's something on that BLS site I'm overlooking? :confused:
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Maybe... I'm from Seattle, and fortunately our 10%ile is hovering around $62,000. But I feel that a new DPT shouldn't accept anything under 75k. In Washington state I see that the avg (50%ile) is around 77k. If I'm getting paid under 70k I better be getting tuition reimbursed and a large sign on bonus is a must, we are way to marketable to be receiving pay under 60k. But from what I hear the sky is the limit, and that you'll get what you put in.
 
Jarrodmac10 said:
But I feel that a new DPT shouldn't accept anything under 75k. If I'm getting paid under 70k I better be getting tuition reimbursed and a large sign on bonus is a must, we are way to marketable to be receiving pay under 60k. But from what I hear the sky is the limit, and that you'll get what you put in.
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We had a practice owner come and speak with our students. He gave a scenario (and some of this may be wrong....it was last year) of M-F 8 hour days with 12 patients I think all medicare, but I could be mistaken. Once the rent was paid and lights, etc paid, and the billing person paid, and like 6% profit for the owner, the salary was like 56k. My numbers may be low, but I thought it was a shockingly low salary for this owner just to keep his doors open. Of course, most do not see only patients with Medicare, but I know of one insurance company in our state that reimburses 50% Medicare rate, so if you contract with that insurance company, you are even lower!
I would guess the 10th percentile is more appropriate for new grads....not median.
 
Jarrodmac10 said:
Maybe... I'm from Seattle, and fortunately our 10%ile is hovering around $62,000. But I feel that a new DPT shouldn't accept anything under 75k.
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I've seen this mentality a lot- so I'm not singling you out. I don't understand though why new grads come out with such expectations. New grads have less experience than every single currently employed PT, why would your earnings be significantly higher than them, let alone $13k over the 10%? That said, while I think shooting high for your goals is great, I think this is the sort of approach that leaves people disappointed with the salary/student loan ratio later. Reality is in the stats.
 
callmecrazy said:
I've seen this mentality a lot- so I'm not singling you out. I don't understand though why new grads come out with such expectations. New grads have less experience than every single currently employed PT, why would your earnings be significantly higher than them, let alone $13k over the 10%? That said, while I think shooting high for your goals is great, I think this is the sort of approach that leaves people disappointed with the salary/student loan ratio later. Reality is in the stats.
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I understand what you're saying. What I've heard from practicing PTs is that the money is out there, it just depends on what the new PT grad is willing to accept.
 
At our clinic we have an average reimbursement rate close to $120 a session. With a 10% cancel/no show rate. At full schedule if a PT that works 8 hours a day with 45min equates to about 9 patients a day (14 if you have 30min sessions).

A PT that works 11 months out the year after vacation and sick time can bring in about $237,600 a year if they are at full schedule with a 10% cancel rate.

A PT that sees patients for 30min brings in a revenue of $369,600 in a year.

These are obviously best case scenarios but I find it hard to belive that an owner can only make 6% profit of numbers even half of these. But I dunno I'm just a guy with a few figures and a calculator.
 
Data from Salary.com shows that the median is $75.2K and the 10%-tile at $64.4K:
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Physical-Therapist-Salary-Details.aspx

From the "Similar Jobs" tab, the higher-paying areas are "Home Care", "Nursing Home" and "Associate Prof."

You can play with the data on the left side of the page (location, years of exp., company size, etc). I put in my data, and it spit out a projected range of $69K - $72K. I'm not sure how accurate those numbers are... I found numerous misspellings on other pages of the site. If they're not careful enough to proofread or spellcheck their own copy, it doesn't reflect well on their professionalism.
 
@Seatown87. I'm a little confused about the 6% comment. What was it in reference to?

I did a high-low analysis a while back in regards to reimbursement of services rendered for a PT clinic. My high-numbers were not as high, but was in the 200k range (w/10 patients p/d). However, it was a gross figure that did not yet take into account fixed/variable overhead, operational costs, taxes, etc. after I did that, I included a receptionist/biller @ $10/hr (eh, why not?). Also, most high-lows are used to identify market volatility, so the mean is usually used for actual projections. If I can remember correctly (this was years ago), the figures came out to be around $120k/annual for a small, 1 PT clinic in my local area.
 
@Azimuthal: in your analysis, did you take into account the investment in the equipment required for a PT private practice? (am asking, not questioning). I think the initial investment could be significant, esp. if one wants to have more than just a set of parallel bars.

It would be interesting to develop a general model on Excel and let people customize it according to their own personal situations.
 
Unfortunately and fortunately, physical therapist are paid just like many other professions. In saying that, I mean that your salary is often times a reflection of how much value you bring to a company. If you make a company $250,000/year, you stand to see a fraction of that revenue(i..e $75,000). The same is true across the board for thousands of other professions. Your value to the market will ultimately bare your worth in salary.

As a new grad DPT, I would honestly have a hard time taking under 75k. Unfortunately in places like the midwest and even on the coasts, some DPTs are starting at 55-65k:bang: Why? The cost of living is lower and many of those states/hospitals/clinics may not be able to afford the 10-20k salary bump for the new grads, or ppl are not negotiating their worth. As a new grad, I would say to be mindful that you will probably not be valued as highly as your senior peers(less experience, unseasoned, clinics have to wait for you to develop). That said, a large contingency of these senior therapist also didn't come out of school with a mortgage worth of student loans. Is that the hospital/companies fault? NO! Is it a valid reason to negotiate a higher? YES!!!

I would say the starting salary for new DPTs is somewhere in the range of 65-85k, depending on what part of the country one lives, hours worked, and how much/well you can negotiate your value to that hospital/clinic. With health care reform now on the books, who really knows what the future will look like.
 
TheOx777 said:
Unfortunately and fortunately, physical therapist are paid just like many other professions. In saying that, I mean that your salary is often times a reflection of how much value you bring to a company. If you make a company $250,000/year, you stand to see a fraction of that revenue(i..e $75,000). The same is true across the board for thousands of other professions. Your value to the market will ultimately bare your worth in salary.

As a new grad DPT, I would honestly have a hard time taking under 75k. Unfortunately in places like the midwest and even on the coasts, some DPTs are starting at 55-65k:bang: Why? The cost of living is lower and many of those states/hospitals/clinics may not be able to afford the 10-20k salary bump for the new grads, or ppl are not negotiating their worth. As a new grad, I would say to be mindful that you will probably not be valued as highly as your senior peers(less experience, unseasoned, clinics have to wait for you to develop). That said, a large contingency of these senior therapist also didn't come out of school with a mortgage worth of student loans. Is that the hospital/companies fault? NO! Is it a valid reason to negotiate a higher? YES!!!

I would say the starting salary for new DPTs is somewhere in the range of 65-85k, depending on what part of the country one lives, hours worked, and how much/well you can negotiate your value to that hospital/clinic. With health care reform now on the books, who really knows what the future will look like.
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Thank you for your input, you seem to be the most credible regarding this topic.
 
jblil said:
@Azimuthal: in your analysis, did you take into account the investment in the equipment required for a PT private practice? (am asking, not questioning). I think the initial investment could be significant, esp. if one wants to have more than just a set of parallel bars.

It would be interesting to develop a general model on Excel and let people customize it according to their own personal situations.
Click to expand...

Hi jblil,
Yes, the start-up cost or initial capital was part of the overall projection with a 5-year pay back schedule in the expenses (principle and APR of 8%). I believe that at that time, I was confused about the depreciation rate so I just used 10 years for all equipment. 10-percent also went into a reinvestment account, similar to how free cash flow is reinvested in a corporation. I was going to do a projection with leased equipment but never got around to it before the end of the quarter. Running a business is pretty tough in itself. I'm still contemplating it after some years of experience. My summer course ends July, 29. Want to see if we can develop a simple model for this?
 
Not even close to being the most credible source! I try to do my HW by comparing salary websites(which are grossly misleading on a number of fronts), but most importantly I ask ppl in the industry! It's always a sensitive topic, which makes me laugh in my head. You should approach it with a certain level delicateness, because as soon as you start to ask about paychecks many people want to get high and mighty. Are you entering this profession b/c you are passionate about it or are there to collect a check? Um....well both! I can maybe count on one hand a person I know who does any job(and would do that job at a salary below their value) because they couldn't live life doing something else.

That said, I will say that one should try to find avenues in PT that bring out the best in you; which will ultimately increase your value to that clinic. I am at the back end of my first full time rotation, and it takes little observation skills at all to see that at least half of the clinicians wished it was 430pm instead of 730am as soon as they hit the door in the morning!
 
Azimuthal said:
My summer course ends July, 29. Want to see if we can develop a simple model for this?
Click to expand...

@Azimuthal: Deal! Thar should be a fun project.

I'll also be busy through 7/31, but we'd still have about 2-3 weeks before Fall classes start. That should be enough time to crank out an usable model. I'll PM you by the end of the month.

Another idea I had, related to starting salaries: it'd be simple enough to design a very short and anonymous online survey geared to newly-minted DPT grads. I can think of 3 or 4 questions such as:
- starting salary
- location: rural, urban, NE, SW, etc
- type of facility: hospital, private practice, traveling PT...
- did you negotiate? if yes, were you successful?
The whole thing would take no more than 10 secs to respond to; it'd be accessible online, and be completely anonymous.

Do you guys think it'd be useful? If yes, I can have it up very quickly. And then we'd have to encourage the class of 2012 to respond to it, may be by putting a "Sticky" in this section of SDN.
 
TheOx777 said:
Not even close to being the most credible source! I try to do my HW by comparing salary websites(which are grossly misleading on a number of fronts), but most importantly I ask ppl in the industry! It's always a sensitive topic, which makes me laugh in my head. You should approach it with a certain level delicateness, because as soon as you start to ask about paychecks many people want to get high and mighty. Are you entering this profession b/c you are passionate about it or are there to collect a check? Um....well both! I can maybe count on one hand a person I know who does any job(and would do that job at a salary below their value) because they couldn't live life doing something else.

That said, I will say that one should try to find avenues in PT that bring out the best in you; which will ultimately increase your value to that clinic. I am at the back end of my first full time rotation, and it takes little observation skills at all to see that at least half of the clinicians wished it was 430pm instead of 730am as soon as they hit the door in the morning!
Click to expand...

Whoops, I thought you had mentioned that you were a new DPT grad. That's why I assumed you had the knowledge and experience with starting salaries.
 
jblil said:
@Azimuthal: Deal! Thar should be a fun project.

I'll also be busy through 7/31, but we'd still have about 2-3 weeks before Fall classes start. That should be enough time to crank out an usable model. I'll PM you by the end of the month.

Another idea I had, related to starting salaries: it'd be simple enough to design a very short and anonymous online survey geared to newly-minted DPT grads. I can think of 3 or 4 questions such as:
- starting salary
- location: rural, urban, NE, SW, etc
- type of facility: hospital, private practice, traveling PT...
- did you negotiate? if yes, were you successful?
The whole thing would take no more than 10 secs to respond to; it'd be accessible online, and be completely anonymous.

Do you guys think it'd be useful? If yes, I can have it up very quickly. And then we'd have to encourage the class of 2012 to respond to it, may be by putting a "Sticky" in this section of SDN.
Click to expand...

Very useful!!
 
I drafted up a very short survey, at this link:
http://kwiksurveys.com?u=dptsurvey

Please let me know what you think or what should be added/deleted/modified. After I get all the feedback and finalize the survey, I'll ask the mods if we can make it a Sticky on top of the page.
 
So far, 3 folks (all of them from the class of 2012) have taken the above survey. I'll find a way to post the results online, but in the meantime here they are:

============================
- Respondent 1: starting salary: >$100K, rural area, Southeast, SNF, successfully negotiated salary

- Respondent 2: starting salary: $60 to $65K, medium-sized city, Mid-Atlantic, outpatient clinic, did not negotiate salary

- Respondent 3: $55K to $60K, large city, Midwest, hospital, unsuccessfully tried to negotiate salary
============================

I'll ask the mods to put the survey in a Sticky on top of the page. Hopefully more folks will take the survey and we can build a better picture of what to expect upon graduation.
 
I am a recent grad about to start work on Monday! I filled out your survey now that I know what my salary will be.
 
jblil said:
So far, 3 folks (all of them from the class of 2012) have taken the above survey. I'll find a way to post the results online, but in the meantime here they are:

============================
- Respondent 1: starting salary: >$100K, rural area, Southeast, SNF, successfully negotiated salary

- Respondent 2: starting salary: $60 to $65K, medium-sized city, Mid-Atlantic, outpatient clinic, did not negotiate salary

- Respondent 3: $55K to $60K, large city, Midwest, hospital, unsuccessfully tried to negotiate salary
============================

I'll ask the mods to put the survey in a Sticky on top of the page. Hopefully more folks will take the survey and we can build a better picture of what to expect upon graduation.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing this! It's really helpful to see this data.
 
Five responses so far, in attached Excel file.

Thanks to all who have responded. Please tell your classmates about the survey: the more data points we have, the more useful it'll be.
 

Attachments

  • DPT Survey Results - July 6 2012.xls
    19.5 KB · Views: 251
I had to move the survey to a different link. Here is the new URL:So far, only 5 responses. If you're a new grad, please fill it out and encourage your classmates to do the same. It's completely anonymous.

I'll post updated results as soon as more people take the survey.
 
One more response came in, so here is the updated spreadsheet (from now on, I'll update at the end of each day, if new info is posted). Thanks to all who participated.
 

Attachments

  • DPT Starting Salary Survey Results - July 9 2012.xls
    19.5 KB · Views: 174
TheOx777 said:
Not even close to being the most credible source!
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I have doubts about that site's credibility when I look at the "Years of Experience" pie chart - maybe my eyes aren't that great but the 16-20 years slice is 11.35% but the chart shows a piece larger than any of the others yet it's the smallest percentage? OK, I know this is a relative nit but c'mon, they couldn't get their chart to match the numbers? :confused:
 
My wife just got hired at $40/hour in a PRN position here in Georgia. BTW if you took the board exam last week scores are up today.
 
fahimaz7 said:
My wife just got hired at $40/hour in a PRN position here in Georgia. BTW if you took the board exam last week scores are up today.
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Thanks, I'll add that data point to the survey. I assume she's a 2012 grad? Is she working PRN in a hospital. outpatient clinic, etc? Also, are you located in a big/medium/small city?

I have noticed that PRN pay is higher, but usually it comes without benefits.

Here is the latest results, with 9 respondents.
 

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  • DPT Starting Salary Survey Results - July 10 2012.xls
    19.5 KB · Views: 139
PRN does typically pay higher hourly than a full time position in the same setting.

I didnt want to throw the survey off with low numbers, so... As a new grad I just started a school based job with good hourly pay, but I only work 4 days/week and only during the weeks school is open. I'm salaried there but it's relatively low as an annual salary as a reflection of my days worked. I have Fridays, weekends, school breaks, and all summer though to work per diem elsewhere for additional money. I know there's potential, but even I am curious how much the flexible per diem is worth through the year.
 
@callmecrazy - you can take the survey, and just put your salary down as $xx/hr. It sounds like you have a very desirable job, and I wouldn't mind doing something like that after I graduate.

Update: I put the salary survey at the link below, and will add responses as they roll in. So far we have 10 respondents.
http://dptfinances.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/hello-world/
 
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I know one of our prof's said if you were willing to go to certain areas in Louisiana or Mississippi and work SNF, the pay would likely be 90K+. In most areas in the south, I have been hearing 65K as the average starting salary. Apparently McAllen, TX area (at the tippy tip of south TX) PT pay is very high as well...better brush up on your espanol though
 
Of the 10 responses so far, 4 report a starting salary between $55K and $60K, and another 4 between $60K and $65K. Although the sample size is very small, in light of this info I wouldn't get into too much debt for the degree. And of course nobody knows how the Affordable Care Act will impact reimbursement rates.

I hope we get more responses so we can have a better idea of what to expect. Also, I'd be curious to see the numbers for the class of 2013, next year.
 
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