**Rate your SMP & Postbac**

[thisismyacct]

Hello all, old thread, I know, but I thought I would add my $0.02 anyway.

I attended a 32-credit Master's of Toxicology program at Colorado State University. I loved it!

1) The Pros and Cons of their program (structure of the program, learning environment, cost, location, faculty, classes, difficulty, competitiveness, other students, buildings/classrooms/facilities, etc..)

• The program is organized fairly well. There are core courses that are offered in spring or in fall only, so a little planning is required. The advisors are professors of core courses so they're great at helping to plan for the most efficient career. The courses are almost all multiple choice exam free. One core course has multiple choice and short answer combination exams. All other courses (unless an elective outside of the program is chosen) have short answer, or essay exams. The courses are offered all over campus, so you have some in beautiful new buildings and some in the older outdated buildings. Most of the courses are taught lecture-style with powerpoints, and require attendance to do well. These professors are teaching the courses they love and have made a career in, so it's a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately, CSU is well-known for it's expensive tuition, and this program is no exception of an out-of-state student. Fort Collins is an awesome city, within no time you could be up the mountains or drive the other direction and be in Denver in an hour. This city is focused on being beautiful, friendly and it has almost everything for everyone. CSU's campus is in line with the city, it is well kept, artistic, up to date, constantly improving, and beautiful with a great view of the Rockies. As far as competition, this program is fairly new and being developed so they are desiring more and more students to fill their classes. Currently, the class size is small and you get to know everone in the whole program.

2) The kinds of classes you've taken and a description.
Core Courses:

• Fundamentals of Toxicology - A course that builds on organic chemistry, biology, molecular bio, and physiology to build the basic knowledge of toxin interactions within the body.
• Mechanisms of Toxicology - a "flipped classroom" style course where the students read current primary research on a wide variety of toxicology topics (novel drugs, scientific practices, recent findings, etc.) to then present to the rest of the class
• Toxicological Pathology - lecture based course discussing the phenotypic findings in humans and animals regarding different well-known toxins, drugs, and chemicals.
• Metabolism and Disposition - exactly what it sounds like; a class devoted the organic chemistry behind metabolism of a variety of chemicals including drugs, parasites, and toxins.

MANY Electives to choose from

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program

• That it wasn't as "impossible" as people would like to tell you, and that office hours are priceless.

4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program

• You'll find yourself saying "I always wondered how that worked/why that was bad/etc"

5) Tips for students applying to your program

• Get your application in on time and have time to speak with the advisors.

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?

• I sure hope it does. But I know that the material will be incredibly beneficial for med school and any pharmacology.

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)

• 5

thank you for the detailed write up

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[shunshine16]

Hello all, old thread, I know, but I thought I would add my $0.02 anyway.

I attended a 32-credit Master's of Toxicology program at Colorado State University. I loved it!

1) The Pros and Cons of their program (structure of the program, learning environment, cost, location, faculty, classes, difficulty, competitiveness, other students, buildings/classrooms/facilities, etc..)

• The program is organized fairly well. There are core courses that are offered in spring or in fall only, so a little planning is required. The advisors are professors of core courses so they're great at helping to plan for the most efficient career. The courses are almost all multiple choice exam free. One core course has multiple choice and short answer combination exams. All other courses (unless an elective outside of the program is chosen) have short answer, or essay exams. The courses are offered all over campus, so you have some in beautiful new buildings and some in the older outdated buildings. Most of the courses are taught lecture-style with powerpoints, and require attendance to do well. These professors are teaching the courses they love and have made a career in, so it's a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately, CSU is well-known for it's expensive tuition, and this program is no exception of an out-of-state student. Fort Collins is an awesome city, within no time you could be up the mountains or drive the other direction and be in Denver in an hour. This city is focused on being beautiful, friendly and it has almost everything for everyone. CSU's campus is in line with the city, it is well kept, artistic, up to date, constantly improving, and beautiful with a great view of the Rockies. As far as competition, this program is fairly new and being developed so they are desiring more and more students to fill their classes. Currently, the class size is small and you get to know everone in the whole program.

2) The kinds of classes you've taken and a description.
Core Courses:

• Fundamentals of Toxicology - A course that builds on organic chemistry, biology, molecular bio, and physiology to build the basic knowledge of toxin interactions within the body.
• Mechanisms of Toxicology - a "flipped classroom" style course where the students read current primary research on a wide variety of toxicology topics (novel drugs, scientific practices, recent findings, etc.) to then present to the rest of the class
• Toxicological Pathology - lecture based course discussing the phenotypic findings in humans and animals regarding different well-known toxins, drugs, and chemicals.
• Metabolism and Disposition - exactly what it sounds like; a class devoted the organic chemistry behind metabolism of a variety of chemicals including drugs, parasites, and toxins.

MANY Electives to choose from

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program

• That it wasn't as "impossible" as people would like to tell you, and that office hours are priceless.

4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program

• You'll find yourself saying "I always wondered how that worked/why that was bad/etc"

5) Tips for students applying to your program

• Get your application in on time and have time to speak with the advisors.

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?

• I sure hope it does. But I know that the material will be incredibly beneficial for med school and any pharmacology.

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)

• 5

Hi there! I've just been accepted into this program and was wondering if you would be willing to answer a quick question? Did you do this in 2 semesters (16 credits each) or spread into summer too?

Thanks and good luck with your future programs!

 

[Fried Plantaris]

MUSC Masters in Medical Sciences
This program was designed for premeds and predents. We took 3 classes with the 1st year dental students (see * below). In addition to courses below, we had outside projects, shadowing, and Grand Round reports.


1) The Pros and Cons of their program (structure of the program, learning environment, cost, location, faculty, classes, difficulty, competitiveness, other students, buildings/classrooms/facilities, etc..)

Pros-
Educational quality-goes without saying all the teachers are on their ****. You don't just learn the material, but also learn how to think. I feel so much smarter just from going through the program
Charleston-beach, historic areas, bars, school sponsored functions/parties, what more could you ask for?

Cons-
Advising-difficult to sit down with advisers outside of a few scheduled meetings throughout the year. Email was only means of correspondence
unreliable linkage to medical school-some years good, other years bad (see below)
sausage fest-14/17 students in the program were males

2) The kinds of classes you've taken and a description.

Summer:
Histology-This class is unique because it is entirely prerecorded lectures taught by a professor who you will never see. It is also set up through USC and technically undergrads there also take the class at the same time as you. Because of that everyone in the class will end up 4.0. The professor provides about 7.5 points on your final grade worth of extra credit. Also quizzes and tests are open note and open book.

Fall:
Anatomy-Toughest class of the year. So many details to know, and so much to cover. Focus on drawing out concepts and active learning rather than just rereading or passive learning. Dr. Bacro will ask questions in the weekly class, some you will see again.
*Biochemistry-This class was probably the second hardest class of the entire year. Mostly because all tests were 40 questions, and missing 4 of them meant you would receive a 90. While most students studied for this class only a few days before, I think beginning at least a week before each test, and re-reviewing the lectures time after time helps learn the content.
Biostatistics-Your grade in this class is largely determined by your weekly HW assignments. Make sure to put effort into them and check over your answers for accuracy. This class should be a 4.0 for everyone, but a few of my classmates were lazy and ended up with a lower grade because they didn't think the teacher would grade as thoroughly as they did

Spring:
*Immunology-The teacher to this class is amazing once you understand her methods. She was detailed and took the time to explain many points, sometimes on multiple occasoions. I think she provided 5 points of extra credit towards a single test. The best way to study for her class is by watching her lectures on repeat over and over.
*Microbiology-This class was considered by many to be the hardest of the semester, and it may require the most of your time. Sketchy Micro was the best thing to use for all tests. The lectures are worth watching once or twice to pick up on other random facts/details not covered by sketchy. Because the professor uses a T-score to determine grades, you will do better in the class than you think. Since this course is taken with dental students who are taking 3x as many course as MSMS students, they historically do worse. And that means you will be the beneficiary of a nice curve after every test! Good job, you deserve it.
Epidemiology-Show up, participate in the discussion, do the work, and you will get a 4.0. The teacher was helpful and wanted everyone to succeed.

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program
To get a 4.0, you must achieve 95 or above in a class. 3.9 in 94, etc.


4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program
Focus on ALL classes in the fall semester, not just Anatomy. Submit primary application as soon as you can-and not after summer semester like they tell you, Get plenty of interview practice from the CAE during late fall/early spring

5) Tips for students applying to your program
Be engaging and ask several good questions each week in Dr. Bacro's class. He is friends with the Dean of Admissions, and if you make a good impression, his recommendation will go a long way. Also, make MCAT studying a priority in the summer. At least 40-50% of your time during the summer semester should be spent on MCAT.

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?
Ultimately yes. Without the program, I never would have gotten to know so many of the faculty, who helped my case. I also did really well in the program and on my MCAT retake, which helped also, but still the experience put me through to med school

7) Anything else you'd like to add
Acceptance stats of classmates--This year 4/4 students got into dental school at MUSC. However as of writing this, only 2/8 people who interviewed here got into MUSC COM (and I got in off the WL). One of those rejected here got into another school. But still so far it has been lower than advertised.

Last year 6/8 people who interviewed at MUSC COM got in, 3 outright, and 3 off the WL. The 2 that did not get in were accepted elsewhere. So this year was definitely a bit of a surprise to program advisers.

Edit: 2 additional people were accepted off of the waitlist bringing the total to 4 medical students of 8 interviewed accepted, and of 10 that applied to med

Edit 2: Final update for medicine-4/8 who interviewed at MUSC got in here (3 off WL). 2 people not accepted here got into other MD schools. The other 2 people had to reapply the next year. 1 got into to MUSC and 1 got into a DO school. Not sure what happened to our classmates who didn’t get an interview.

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)
3.5/5-The program by itself will not change anything. It is on you to put yourself out there, make great grades/MCAT, network with faculty, and practice interviewing. But the system around you is in place for everything you want to happen.

 

[SimplySimple112]

Can a recent grad/current student review the George Mason ABS program + Georgetown MS in Physiology? I haven't seen reviews from students who chose to continue studies at GU for the MS in Physiology. Also, I'm concerned about the cost of living and/or commute--->basically, how did you make it work for the extra semester(s) at GU: move closer or commute?

Or if you chose to continue your education at GM for the MS in Biology, do you feel that the program was worth it and would you have chosen the ABS program again? (The possibility of earning an MS from Georgetown is appealing, but I would be disappointed if I didn't get in).

 

[colucho19]

Can anyone comment on the MiBS program at the University of Miami? I have reviewed all the information on the website but insight from a current/former student would be great.

 

[RexDukianae]

Duke University School of Medicine, Master of Biomedical Sciences Program
A review from a graduate of the Class of 2019
I don’t see enough people on SDN talking about this program, and it deserves all the praise it can get.

EDIT as of Jul 2021: I have completed my first year of medical school! The MBS program prepared me so well!

EDIT as of ~May 2020: After completing the application cycle, I ended up receiving 7 interview invitations, but not an interview at Duke. Felt like I should have a disclaimer here to say that even if you do well in the program (4.0 GPA and other awards at graduation), you might not get an interview.

1.) Pros
a.) The best part of this program is that students take medical-school caliber courses under the same faculty who teach the medical students at Duke's School of Medicine. These professors are deeply invested in your success and well-being, and they will know you by name. This close interaction with the professors creates an environment where students truly learn the material, much of which will be vital as they pursue medical school. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH. THE PROFESSORS ARE THE BEST PART OF THIS PROGRAM. When you really think about it, medical schools are just structures—the people in the buildings are what really make the school a special place. I have two other degrees from Duke and have extensive experience throughout the institution for someone my age, and I can genuinely say that the professors from the MBS program are some of the best that Duke University has to offer. You will not find more kindhearted (and knowledgeable, for that matter) people anywhere else. Did I mention that these are the same professors who teach the students in the M.D. Program at Duke?
b.) You will become a certified Emergency Medical Technician as part of the program, and you will have the opportunity to rotate on shifts throughout the Duke community. You will work alongside doctors and nurses in Duke’s Emergency Department and in Duke’s Urgent Care Clinics. You’ll also assist paramedics and firefighters out in the community. There is arguably no better way to learn about medicine than to learn by doing. While other people are shadowing (passive observation) doctors and nurses to get into medical school, you will be working (active participation)alongside healthcare providers, discussing differential diagnoses and next steps in patient care. On these shifts, you’ll be exposed to incredible stories that you’ll be able to discuss in medical school interviews. These experiences will likely set you apart from other applicants.
c.) The medical humanities part of this program is also second-to-none. You’ll get the chance to develop your understanding of the compassionate side of health care in small group seminars throughout the 11-month program. Students get the opportunity to discuss topics ranging from how different people and cultures think about death to how implicit bias plays a role in peoples’ healthcare. In this part of the curriculum, you will also get the chance to participate in standardized patient interviews. This is an awesome chance for you to start working on your bedside manner even before you begin medical school. Not to mention that this kind of impromptu conversation in a timed setting will help you with interviews when you apply to medical school or whatever kind of school or job in the future.
d.) You will have the opportunity to take a “selective” course in the spring semester. This is an incredible opportunity for you to focus on a topic that is of special interest to you. A big part of why I decided to pursue medicine is because of its focus on service, so I took a community engagement selective and worked for an organization in the community studying food insecurity. As part of the curriculum, I also got to present my research in a poster presentation at the end of the year. This was yet another awesome experience in preparing for medical school and for a future in academic medicine.
e.) At the beginning of the program, you will be assigned to an advisor who will help you make decisions about how to improve your candidacy for medical school. My advisor became my closest mentor and helped me with everything from deciding which schools to apply to to giving me recommendations on how to improve my personal statement. You will also be assigned to a team-based learning group at the beginning of the program. This team will serve as a built-in support network for you as you try your best to excel in this program. This is also an excellent experience in working on a team, something that is crucial for any career, especially medicine.
f.) The anatomy class will involve full cadaveric dissection. Your team-based learning team will spend 8 weeks or so in the anatomy lab studying the intricacies of human anatomy. Your team will be the only team to work on this cadaver. This is a significant privilege. In some medical schools, you have to share your cadaver with other groups, and often do not get to participate in dissecting certain parts of the body because other groups have already done them. It is truly a privilege to be able to study anatomy through cadaveric dissection.
g.) When you’re not in the classroom, you will be at one of the best universities in the country with a vibrant campus atmosphere. Tired of studying? Go to a basketball game and see one of the greatest college coaches (Coach K) of all time and future NBA All-Stars in action. Want a different option? Head downtown (a 10-minute car ride) for a dinner at any one of the many fantastic restaurants that Durham has to offer. Want to get outside? Go for a run or walk in the Duke Forest or in the Eno River State Park. Heck, take a day trip out to the beach in Wilmington, NC, just a 2.5-hour car ride away. There is literally something for everyone. All you have to do is ask around.
h.) Classes are taken in Duke’s School of Medicine. While some other SMP programs are located in a “School of Health Professions,” this program is located right in the school of medicine. You cannot beat this location.
i.) The program welcomes people who are interested in applying to dental school, applying to PA school, or pursuing a PhD (and others). Although most of the students in the program are interested in going the MD route, the MBS program faculty loves people who are interested in different career paths, and will provide you with the resources to pursue this path if that is what you want to do.
j.) I thought the other students were really nice and friendly. Everyone was highly motivated to do well, but everyone was really nice and never made me feel like I was in an environment that was too competitive or anything like that.

Cons
a.) I have to be honest… it is a real challenge for me to think of cons for this program. I guess one con is that this program does not have any linkage agreements with other medical schools. This means that doing well in this program does not necessarily mean you will get admitted to medical school. For what it’s worth though, I am currently applying and have had a few interviews (As of Oct. 30, MD only). I know someone who graduated from the program one year before me and she received 9 interview invitations and was accepted to four medical schools (all MD programs).
b.) Another con is that while the advisors are incredibly helpful, some of them are more proactive and engaged than others. You’ll be randomly assigned to an advisor, so you’ll just have to hope you get a highly engaged advisor.
c.) The program is only 11 months, so you likely won’t have the same research opportunities that are provided in a 2-year program (but then again you won’t have to pay for another year of school).
d.) Duke is a private school, so the tuition will be higher, but there is opportunity for financial aid and scholarships.

2.) The kinds of classes you've taken and a description.
I’ll refer you to the Duke MBS website (Degree Requirements & Courses | Duke School of Medicine) if you want more information about the classes. I will say that this program is more oriented toward taking classes like the ones that you will take in medical school rather than giving you a chance to retake physics or chemistry. If you are trying to take physics or chemistry, this program is not for you. If you want to learn about anatomy, physiology, pathology, histology, evidence-based medicine, medical humanities, etc., you are in the right place. Basically, the three main courses that last throughout the year are the anatomy class, cellular science class, and organ systems class. Other classes are built in around these classes. Go to the website. That’s the best place to find the information.

3.) Something they wished they knew coming into the program
The program is short (only 11-months), so don’t be afraid to speak up in class. You are smart! Don’t be afraid to take a shot at something!

4.) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program
Don’t feel like you are “falling behind” by doing an SMP. This program will only benefit you in the long run.

5.) Tips for students applying to your program
Be authentic in your application. Try to really capture what excites you about the health professions and how this program will help you in your future aspirations.

6.)Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.
I’m currently applying to MD programs and have gotten interviews! Keeping my fingers crossed!

7.) Anything else you'd like to add
Not really. If you have read this far, you know how big of a fan I am of this program. Oh and GO DUKE!

8.)A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)
5 out of 5. If I could give it a higher rating, I would.

 

[OncoGenieInaBottle]

Duke University School of Medicine: Duke Master of Biomedical Sciences (MBS) Program
-feedback from a Class of 2018 alumna (now accepted MD student)

1. Pros
-This program was honestly one of the best things that I have ever experienced, and I can truly say that I would not be where I am today without the guidance from the program's topnotch faculty and amazing opportunities that the program offers. Seriously, I personally do not think I would have gotten into medical school without it.

-structure of the program:

• "flipped classroom" (some lectures in person and some online recorded videos from the medical school, but group activities and applications such as clinical case studies are performed in class). I feel like I actually learned the material better this way and then it was really helpful to solidify the information in class in team based learning groups
• program begins with unique opportunities many premeds don't have access to such as cadaveric dissection taught by medical school faculty and EMT training to prepare for 12-hour EMT shifts later in the program which provides great hand-on clinical experience in the emergency setting

-learning environment

• team based learning (tbl) groups: you are assigned a tbl group that you work with the entire year. You also have separate small groups in the essentials of health practice and professional development course. I really enjoyed working in small groups because it allows you to work together on shared goals through bringing in the diverse perspectives of your peers
• nonjudgmental and super supportive!! The awesome thing about your tbl group/small group is it provides an open, welcoming environment to share with your peers. Certain aspects of medicine can be emotional, and it really helped to have an environment where we could all be share personal experiences with each other, support each other, etc.

-location

• cost of living in Durham is super affordable compared to big cities that offer similar programs and you won't have time to work a job and if you're like most people, you will be living off student loans while in the program so it helped to be able to actually afford an apartment (I actually afforded one without a roommate)
• Durham actually has a lot to do! Great food!! You have to try M Kokko or Pizzeria Toro if you're ever in Durham

-faculty: THE FACULTY IS AMAZING!! The faculty members that lead the program and teach in it are genuinely devoted to helping you succeed. They are always open to help you outside of class with the coursework, advising, even just discussing personal problems. Plus, many of the professors that teach in the program are the same ones that teach in the medical school at Duke, so they definitely prepare you for medical school. These individuals are all so caring, and I still keep in touch with many of them.

-classes

• EMT training: how cool is it to actually train to be an EMT and then work on a team to treat patients as a first responder, emergency department, urgent care, etc.
• Human Structure: great opportunity for cadaveric dissection
• Cellular Sciences: great prep for med school (and the MCAT for that matter....was very helpful for the bio/biochem section)
• Evidence Based Clinical Practice: I loved this class and it helped me learn how to critically evaluate scientific publications and how they are incorporated into clinical practice
• Essentials of Health Practice and Professional Development: I loved this class. Great for discussing aspects of medicine beyond the sciences and learning how to conduct standardized patient interviews
• Medical Statistics: super helpful and still use what I learned when doing stats for my research
• Organ Systems: pretty much physiology but I loved this class and it was very helpful for someone like myself who had never taken A&P in undergrad (plus you learn histology here and in cellular sciences)
• Health Systems: excellent health policy class and introduction to understanding healthcare delivery and how it's changing
• ELECTIVES: opportunities for clinical research, community engagement, basic lab research, planning and preparing for medical school, study habits and self care, ultrasound class, healthy policy, etc.

-difficulty: definitely challenging because it's pretty much some of the first year of medical school (wouldn't you want to be challenged and prepared though??) but the faculty is great! They go above and beyond to help you with anything you're struggling with and it's helpful to learn in team based learning groups

-competitiveness/other students : why is this a pro? because the learning environment is not competitive! everyone is really supportive (peers and faculty). Everyone in our class of 43 ended up becoming great friends, and we all still hang out and get together.

-buildings: very nice and you have 24/7 access to the Duke MBS and Duke Med facilities, including the med student lounge

CONS:
-the cost: this is a very expensive program, but the way I looked at it was that it was an investment in my future, an investment that paid off because the experiences from the program helped me get into medical school


2. Classes (See above under Pros)

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program
-I wish I would have known to be confident and not be so anxious in the beginning of the program. I think I got a little bit of "imposter syndrome" when I first got to the program because I was so intimidated by how smart and impressive all my peers were, but you need to remember that you got into the program for a reason and are just as qualified to be there as everyone else! Thus, be confident and make the most of the year because it will be extremely busy and go by fast, but it's great. Also, remember that your peers are there to support you and you are there to support them (again I loved how collaborative the environment was in MBS)

4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program
-Although this program can certainly help you reach your goals and get you into whichever health professional school you're pursuing, you have to work for it! This program will be challenging, but you can do it!! Manage your time well, network, make friends and remember to have fun, and take the initiative to take advantage of opportunities when they present themselves

5) Tips for students applying to your program
-Please take the essays seriously. Reviewers can tell when they were rushed and not taken seriously. Since there is no interview as part of the admissions process, your essays are the place to set yourself apart and show why you would be a great fit for the program!

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?
-YES!! I lacked pretty much all clinical experience before the program so gaining hands-on experience as an EMT where I was actually treating patients, shadowing in multiple specialties and primary care at Duke, and treating patients in clinical research helped affirm that medicine was the right career for me and give me the experiences I needed to be competitive for medical school. Plus, all of these experiences provided meaningful patient experiences

7) Anything else you'd like to add
I am so thankful for this program! Please feel free to ask me anything about it!

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)
5 (FULL RECOMMENDATION/ONE OF THE BEST DECISIONS I MADE so take the leap and apply if you think it's right for you!)

 

[deleted289061]

Program: Georgetown SMP

(Document attached because I couldn't figure out SDN's formatting)

 

[AspiringMDabe]

Duke University School of Medicine Master of Biomedical Sciences- Class of 2019

1. Pros:
- The program is structured to prepare you for medical school as well as the application process. One of the unique part of the program was the Human Structure course which involved full cadaveric dissection in the Gross Anatomy lab (same as what the medical students take and taught by the school of medicine faulty)
- Clinical exposure: through this program you also gain a lot of clinical exposure, you become certified as an EMT and have assigned shifts at Fire station, EMS stations, Urgent care and the Emergency Department.
- Deeply reflective and diverse conversation regarding the role of healthcare in our society. Personally, I found this aspect of the program to be very rewarding and useful especially during medical school interviews and when writing secondaries. Consciously or unconsciously, these conversations help you find your "why medicine" and helps you move away from the "because I want to help people" type of answers, because by discussing some of the current issues in medicine with a diverse body of faculty and students you are able to get a more realistic view of medicine.
- Supportive and Passionate faculty that truly want to see you succeed, get into medical school or pursue whatever path you choose. They are readily available to work with you even after graduation to achieve your goals.

Cons:
- Cost: the program is actually really expensive, however I am happy I chose to attend. It truly was an investment, I'm glad I made
- The lack of linkage or even guaranteed interview with Duke Medical School. However it truly does dramatically improve your chances of getting into medical school.
Edit: I actually got accepted into Duke Medical School. So yes it does dramatically increase your chances of getting into medical school!

2. Check out the Duke MBS website (Degree Requirements & Courses | Duke School of Medicine) or previous members post.

3. I wish I had known how intense this program was going to be. I think the intensity of the program is something I partially overlooked, however do not stress they provide plenty of support for you. I completed this program even more successfully than I had expected

4. A lot of the classes and activities take place in a group setting so come prepared for a lot of team work.

5. Since there is no interview process for this program, your essays would say a lot about you. So make sure you tell your story through your essays.

6. Yes it definitely did. So far I have received 7 Medical School Interviews and One Acceptance from my top choice MD school (I applied to only MD schools).

7. I really loved being a part of this program. My experience helped me grow both professionally and academically. It also really built up my confidence in myself and my ability to excel in medicine. If you have researched this program and would like to attend but you are trying to decide if it is worth it, believe me when I say it is TRULY WORTH IT.

8. 4.5. I sincerely recommend this program for any one looking into an SMP to prep for medical school.

 

[deleted923293]

Indiana University School of Medicine's 30-Credit Hour MS Program in Cellular & Integrative Physiology

I want to preface this by explaining something I hadn't seen explained on this thread before that confused myself and several other incoming students in this program. There are actually three SMP-like programs at IUPUI in Indianapolis.

1. IUSM's MS in Cellular & Integrative Physiology - This program is actually affiliated with the school of medicine and is relatively new. My class of 2018-2019 was the third class to go through the program. During the second semester of my program (Spring 2019), the Cellular & Integrative Physiology department announced it would be merging with the Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology. I believe this degree is now referred to as the MS in Anatomy, Cell Biology and Physiology. From what I can gather from the posted curriculum online, the required courses and overall structure of the program have not changed.

2. IUPUI's MS in Biology - This program I believe actually rewards you a degree from Purdue University. I accidentally scheduled a meeting with the head of this program by accident because the two programs both call themselves "IU's PPNTP (Pre-professional non-thesis program)." Their director of this program was actually a bit salty about the fact that IUSM made a program aiming to do the same thing for students and then "took their name." I chose to go with IUSM's program over this one because IUSM has MUCH more freedom in terms of elective courses, and my experience meeting with this director left a bad taste in my mouth. YMMV.

3. IUSM's Master of Science in Medical Science (MSMS). Unlike the other two programs (which are two semesters), this program is a two year program and caters to disadvantaged students. Other that than, I am not very familiar with this program.

1) The Pros and Cons of their program (structure of the program, learning environment, cost, location, faculty, classes, difficulty, competitiveness, other students, buildings/classrooms/facilities, etc..)

Pros

1. Most, if not all, of the faculty teaching the courses also teach the current medical students. I had multiple professors come out and say at the beginning of the semester that they are essentially teaching us as if we were medical students. In some cases, such as the Radiation and Cancer Biology course, the graduate students were in class with incoming Radiation Oncology residents and were held to the same material and grading standards of these residents.
2. All of the faculty were incredibly supportive. In my two semesters there, I asked for and received recommendations from the director of the program and three professors. They all want you to succeed, all you have to do is put in the effort.
3. The program only has three required courses; Biochem (3cr), Physiology (5cr), and Biostats (3cr). You are also required to do a 1 credit hour seminar course where you go listen to PhD thesis defenses and visiting lecturers (I assume to fluff the audience for these people.) That's it. Everything else is free reign. Literally. Our director said if it's a graduate level course and is related in any way to science or some sort of medical humanities or ethics that it would count. You have an insane amount of freedom in designing your graduate program.
4. There exists a research track if you are more interested in that. The research track requires you to find a PI somewhere on campus and allows you to enroll to up to 4 credit hours of research. Many students did this because the research courses are essentially guaranteed A's and it greatly reduces the didactic workload of your semesters. A caveat: I met with the Dean of Admissions for IUSM, and was advised directly NOT to do the research track because the main reason I was there was for grade remediation (my undergrad GPA was 2.89 and my sGPA was 2.56). She said it would be viewed as grade fluffing and the admissions committee knew to look out for that with people who had done this program. Again, YMMV.
5. With the exception of a few courses in my program, all of the courses utilize IUSM's lecture recording system. During my fall semester, I only came to campus for exams. Barely any of this attendance nonsense. It allowed me to learn how I learn best and better prioritize my time given the freedoms many of the medical students enjoy.
6. If you like to be on campus, IUPUI is a fantastic downtown campus with lots of places to study. Lots of new buildings with unique architecture and many quiet floors in multiple libraries across campus. See con below for me complaining about parking.

Cons

1. The advising. There is no advising. You would think a program focused on getting its students into professional school would have at least a professional career development counselor or two. Many of my peers were actually pretty clueless about the application cycle even in the months leading up to primary application submission (ex. not knowing how many LORs you need, not knowing how long MCAT scores are good for, not knowing the cycle timelines, etc.) When I initially asked about advising, I was pointed to the HPPLC (Health Professions and Prelaw Center) in Bloomington, IN. The main pre-MD professional adviser was booked MONTHS in advance for a phone appointment, and the only other option was to drive to Bloomington and try to get lucky with a walk-in appointment which wasn't even guaranteed. I elected not to do this and turned to SDN and reddit.
2. I listed the immense freedom in designing your own curriculum above as a pro. Here I'll explain why it doubles as a con. About 20 of the MS program students took a 700-level, two credit-hour stem cell course in the spring semester. I have never worked so hard for an A in a 2cr. course than I had to for this course. The exams were all take-home, and my shortest bibliography for one question was over 15 primary sources/textbooks. Turns out, the course was intended for PhD candidates with very strong backgrounds in stem cell biology, which none of us grad students happened to have. IUPUI also does not release their graduate grade distributions, so predicting something like this is actually pretty difficult. The course director and our program director opened a dialogue about how far behind the graduate students were, so hopefully this specific incident won't happen again. My point of this as a con is you have to be very careful when choosing courses. It's easy to pick a course because it fits your schedule and credit hour requirements and then actually be in way over your head and have to scramble to catch up material-wise, or find a replacement course.
3. Parking is a nightmare. I think they literally sell more passes than there are spots on campus. If you have to go to campus, go early.

2) The kinds of classes you've taken and a description.

This was my final 30 credits. Some other students in the program I had zero classes with outside the required ones. It just comes down to what interests you, but I can at least talk about what I took.

Fall Semester

1. Biochemistry (3) - Your standard undergrad biochem course on a mild steroid. This course wasn't that bad, although I will say a lot of it was rote memorization. I mean exams would literally ask which enzymes and co-factors are required in step X of beta oxidation. Definitely not the most fun course, but I just used Anki and it was an easy A. Only grades were exams. I watched the entirety of the lectures from the comfort of my home at 1.5x speed.
2. Human Physiology (5) - I can't compare this to an undergrad physio course because I hadn't taken one before. I really enjoyed this course. It was set up with rotating professors in the physiology department that would teach blocks in systems similar to their medical school curriculum. They ended up curving the entire course grade at the end as the average on all the exams floated somewhere around the high-70s to mid-80s. Only grades were exams. I watched the entirety of the lectures from the comfort of my home at 1.5x speed.
3. Biostatistics (3) - Completely online except for the midterm. Homework due weekly. Professor has been teaching it for years and was a bit quirky, but very friendly and always willing to meet with you in person or via a skype-like tutoring session if you're struggling. This course is more about taking the time and starting the assignments early to figure out if you need help. Grades were homeworks, weekly quizzes, and midterm and final exams.
4. Endocrinology (3) - Dr. Dai is fantastic. He's been teaching this course for almost a decade now. The material gets into the nitty-gritty of the human endocrine system and hormone production. While sometimes the material can be a bit difficult, Dr. Dai is extremely fair with his exams. Very slight curve on each exam, but for the most part what you put in is what you're going to get out. Only grades were exams.
5. Seminar in Physiology (1) - You are required to attend 12 seminars throughout the semester. Just be there and sign your name when you're supposed to.

Spring Semester

1. Radiation and Cancer Biology (3) - This course was based way more in physics than I anticipated. I learned an immense amount about ionizing radiation and actually ended up really enjoying this course. We learned the same material and took the same exams as the radiation oncology residents. Graduate students were also required to write a 12-page paper over a topic in radiation and radiation therapy of their choosing. Grades were 80% exams and 20% final paper. The professors did not record their lectures and did not post slides online (handed out at the beginning of each lecture in a packet), so consider this course as having required attendance.
2. Molecular Biology of Cancer (3) - A molecular biology course on steroids. Lots of pathway memorization with exams focusing on disruption or mutation of these pathways and their major factors. A lot of the information overlapped with the radiation course, so it felt like my studying was killing two birds with one stone for a lot of material. The professor who taught this had been doing it for several years but just took a position at a different university, so I'm not sure what the fate of the course will be. Grades were 60% exams, 20% weekly quizzes covering the textbook, and 20% a final paper over a cancer of your choosing.
3. Simulations in Human Physiology (3) - This course took several concepts learned in the human physio course and made them clinically relevant. We used online simulation software to predict things like changes in labs during ketoacidosis, the effects of the body during a physical stress test, vitals and EKG readouts during an MI, etc. We topped it off at the end of the semester by taking a trip to IUSM's simulation center and going through a full emergency room simulation. The dummies there are some expensive, cutting-edge stuff they use to train their medical students and residents. Get as much out of this course as you can. Grades were write-ups after each major simulation, I think maybe one pop-quiz, and a presentation over a simulation you'd run yourself.
4. Solving Clinical Cases (3) - Probably one of my favorite courses offered by the department. Exactly what it sounds like. These were cases of people admitted into IU Health's Hospital that were unique or difficult to solve. They redacted identifying information and presented the facts to us as students as they appeared to attending physicians and let us work our way through the cases in small groups. Loved the emphasis on the clinical relevance of all we had been learning. Highly recommend this course. Grades were attendance for the in-class cases and 5 "take-home" cases you were meant to work through on your own.
5. Seminar in Physiology (1) - See above.
6. Stem-cell Biology (2) - Don't take this course.

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program
I was personally terrified of not doing well because my undergraduate record was absolute trash. I hardly studied at all in undergrad, so I was afraid I would have major gaps in knowledge required to do well in this program. I treated this program like a full-time job because I saw it as my last chance to attend medical school, and because of that I did very well. I ended the program with a 4.0 gpa. Several students in the program I became friends with worked part-time or even full-time while taking a full course load and were barely passing some of the courses. I would not recommend working while completing this program.

4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program
Sort of mentioned above. After speaking to many of the faculty in the program who also serve on the admissions committee for IUSM, I learned that if you do poorly in this program you will most likely not go to medical school. Treat this as your last shot and do absolutely whatever you can to get a 4.0 in this program. The people who received a 3.0-3.2 are probably not going to medical school unless other parts of their application are amazing, the people I knew with a 3.3-3.6 mainly applied to DO schools, and the 3.6+ applied to MD and DO. This is not a set-in-stone thing, but just the trend I noticed.

5) Tips for students applying to your program
The requirements to get into the program aren't that difficult. I think a 3.0 cumulative and a 490 MCAT. They even made an exception for me just because I emailed and asked because my GPA was below their cutoff. Once you get in, crush it. I spent 8am to ~4-5pm every day studying and staying on top of the material as best as I possibly could, and it worked. Meet with the professors, meet with the director, meet with the dean of med school admissions. They all want you to succeed, but if you don't approach them they're not going to randomly offer to help you. Dr. Goodwill (program director) was probably my greatest resource during the program and always made time to listen to my questions or concerns.

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?
I applied to MD only. 12 primaries sent, 11 secondaries received, 2 II => 2 A's (IU and Cincinnati). I think I've received 3 Pre-Interview R's from reach schools, but still waiting to hear back from the others.

7) Anything else you'd like to add
The program, like any other graduate or SMP program, is expensive. Especially if you are out of state. I think my year it ran $10k for in-state and almost $30k for OOS. A few people close to me tried to dissuade me because of the cost. I am a non-traditional applicant and drained my savings and 401k to pay for living expenses during the program. In total, I spent less than one year of salary as an attending physician. If you were to tell me that I had to tack on an extra $10k to an already massive education bill to become a physician in order to become a physician, I would personally take that deal 100 times out of 100 times. Something something drop in the bucket.

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)
4. It's a relatively new program, but IUSM carries decent name recognition in the midwest as it is the only MD school in Indiana. Several Ohio and even Kentucky MD schools (I think) offer in-state tuition to Indiana residents. At the end of the program the director was very interested in feedback from us on how to improve, so hopefully as more classes go through this program will become more refined. My only real major complaint was advising, but if I had known about this issue going into the program it wouldn't have changed my decision. I just probably would have been more proactive in finding my own career development advice.

Open to PMs for specific questions to anyone considering or currently enrolled in this program.

 

[doodlehead]

Program: Georgetown SMP

(Document attached because I couldn't figure out SDN's formatting)

very helpful thanks

 

[ped-neph92]

Any one have one for the George Washington University Post Baccalaureate Pre-Medical Program?

 

[deleted1039640]

Does anyone know anything about the Masters in Biomedical Sciences (MiBS) for the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine? Any advice would be helpful!

 

[deleted912769]

Can anyone comment on the MiBS program at the University of Miami? I have reviewed all the information on the website but insight from a current/former student would be great.

Hey, did you end up getting in/ have any insight on the program?

 

[TheFutureisYours]

Does anyone know anything about the Masters in Biomedical Sciences (MiBS) for the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine? Any advice would be helpful!

Yes, I’m a current student in the program, what specific questions do you have?

 

[MangiaMangia]

Fordham University Post-Bacc, finished in 2016

1) The Pros and Cons of their program (structure of the program, learning environment, cost, location, faculty, classes, difficulty, competitiveness, other students, buildings/classrooms/facilities, etc..)
Pros:
- Expense: One credit costs around $800 while NYU and Columbia are double at $1600.
- Location: You live in New York City. Fordham University has 3 campuses, but the main campus is located in the Bronx. The school has a license to run labs only at the Bronx location so you will be there to take lab-concurrent courses (i.e. Bio, Gen Chem, OChem, Physics, etc). I lived right by the Bronx campus which saved me $$$ on rent, but I could easily go down to Manhattan via the van shuttle the schools runs between the Bronx campus and Manhattan campus. Definitely a big perk!
- Class size: You will mostly take classes specifically for the post-bacc students but you also can take undergrad classes. The class sizes are small compared to like Columbia which have massive intro course class sizes.
- Undergrad professors: The undergrad professors are really the most underrated part of this school. Saba for OChem, Zencheck for upper level Bio, etc.
- Facilities: You get access to undergrad facilities like the gym where they offer yoga classes, spinning, etc. The Bronx campus is also beautifully maintained landscape-wise. I also bought a meal plan so I could eat at the cafeteria when I felt too lazy or busy to cook.
- Tutoring: As a post-bacc, you can and should take full advantage of undergrad tutors. I went to the physics tutors, and I also became a chemistry tutor.
- Acceptance in the program is pretty lax as long as you fulfill the minimum GPA requirements (undergrad 3.0 I think??)
- Summer OChem: I loved my experience taking OChem in the summer. It is very doable if you are ready to study everyday. The professors are the dopest.
- Independent structure of the program was a big factor for me to choose this place. I was able to finish all my pre-reqs in a year including summer (I had already taken BIO and GChem elsewhere). It helps if you plan to work part-time as well.

Cons:
- Advising: The advising here will not help but actually hinder you. There is a single person who is also an assistant dean in the law school. You have to register for classes manually while sitting down with this person at the start of every semester. However, the only problem is if the advisor is ever in her office. You will lose your hair waiting for a response from her for appointment times. This will be evident from the beginning in the application process. You will be agonizing waiting to hear back for your telephone interview. This was definitely the most negative experience of my time here.
- Post-bacc professors: There are post-bacc only classes that you will have to mostly take. These classes are generally taught by different professors than the undergrad professors. They range from good to horrible. The problem is that a lot of times you won't know who will be teaching your class until the first day of class. Also, I had a situation where the physics professor was replaced between semesters so there was the disruption of teaching styles which is never fun. I personally tried to take as many undergrad classes as possible but your advisor will try to limit you from doing this.
- DISORGANIZED AND LATE COMMITTEE LETTER. I spoke with previous classes and saw my class experience problems with getting the committee letters in a timely manner. I sidestepped this and directly got letters of recommendation from professors. Again, you will experience a chokehold here because the committee letter runs through, guess who, your one and only, nearly-absentee advisor. I was able to get into all my top choices without a committee letter and you can too if you take that path.
- The library is not 24/7.
- Lack of camaraderie: Since the program is not formally structured, you won't have a cohort. You will also see a range of people who are motivated and unmotivated.
- Limited research opportunities but they are available if that's what you're looking for.

2) The kinds of classes you've taken and a description.
- Summer: Organic Chemistry 1 & 2 with Saba and Caccio
- Fall 2015 & Spring 2016: Physics 1 & 2, Biochem, Psychology, Physiology

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program
- At this program or any other post-bacc, it's up to you to make it or not. This is your last chance, and especially at this school, an advisor is NOT going to hold your hand. If you're up for it, you can do well here. If you make friends with some undergrads, they can help direct you to easier upper level biology courses to make life easier too. Take advantage of the office hours and tutoring. Office hours are so much emptier at this school because class sizes are much smaller than larger universities, but the undergrad professors are usually very good.

4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program
See above

5) Tips for students applying to your program
- Apply as soon as possible. Don't wait. It is pretty lax getting in as long as you are above the minimum GPA threshold. I had some grammatical errors in my personal statement but it never came up.

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?
-As far as providing an excellent science background with coursework geared toward the DAT--YES. I had a good cycle with a lot of acceptances and loved my professors. As far as advising, committee letter, application colloquia, opportunities for volunteering or research-- NO. Educate yourself about the application timeline and seek out volunteer and research opportunities on your own early on, and you'll be fine.

7) Anything else you'd like to add
- My beef and every other post-bacc student's beef was with the leadership of the sole advisor. This person will not be present physically or in spirit with you on your journey. It is ridiculously irresponsible to run this program when you have other full-time commitments (i.e. advising in the law school).
- Take the undergrad classes when you can.
- I wouldn't recommend this program if you need a lot of advising.

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)
3

I was curious if you could message me who the advisor was? I'm considering Fordham but believe they've recently made some changes. I would be interested to see if the same person is still in place, as that kind of thing is very frustrating!

 

[Cyborg#0]

I was curious if you could message me who the advisor was? I'm considering Fordham but believe they've recently made some changes. I would be interested to see if the same person is still in place, as that kind of thing is very frustrating!

I don't know who the advisor now would be.. I remember the school was disorganized and it was really up to me to do the legwork and make phone calls persistently until I got answers. Best of luck

 

[doofuscake]

Kansas City University College of Bioscience 1 yr 30-Credit Hour MS Program in Biomedical Science


WHO SHOULD APPLY:


First of all if you have >3.3GPA, DO NOT do this program. If your MCAT is the issue spend time fixing that rather than spending 32K and 9 months trying to get a 'guaranteed interview'. If you got waitlisted from KCU, then just do another cycle. There were plenty of people who got interviews from other programs during the first semester which means this program did not mean much to the school they were applying to since no grades or LORs were given. I will stress again that you are better off re-taking the MCAT. Check out r/MCAT or other threads here to see how to study etc. Honestly even buying a KAPLAN or TPR course would be advisable at this point. (there were plenty of people in this program who had decent GPAs but just needed to retake the MCAT) If you have a less competitive GPA BUT it’s fixable then just do a DIY-postbacc at a state school for cheaper and beef up other parts of your app.

If you have a horrendous GPA (no matter what MCAT) and have had no traction in an application cycle, then maybe consider this program. Basically, if you are not competitive and cannot become competitive (even with a solid MCAT) consider this program.

Also, if you have not taken the MCAT or plan on taking it, do so BEFORE the program. You probably won't have time to successfully study during the program plus if you have a MCAT score you can apply early and have a better cycle / chances of getting IIs from other schools.



WHAT IS THE PROGRAM LIKE:

You take 5 classes each semester

Semester 1 | Semester 2
- Phys I | - Phys II
- Anatomy I | - Anatomy II
- Histology / Genetics | - Bioinformatics / Embryo
- Epidemiology | - Immunology
- Molec Cell Bio | - Biochemistry


The classes themselves are not difficult. In fact, they're kind of easy. Most of the material covered you will have seen before in undergrad with some material being new. The professors are.... meh. Some people seem to like the professors, others do not. I personally have had issues with their slides and questions on their exams, but I have never really used the teacher as my primary source of learning (I usually come to them with questions and clarifications). What makes the courses difficult is in part the questions (worded poorly IMO) and the professors' explanations about topics (i.e. not well thought out explanations), and having to take 5 exams back-to-back.

ADMIN / STAFF:

I already talked about the professors a bit in terms of their classes, but we are actually all assigned one of the professors as 'advisors' at the beginning of the year Outside of the classroom they're all decent people and most are nice and supportive. I haven't used my advisor all that much but he did stress that his door is always open and to come talk to him about stuff. They seem to be mostly in the dark regarding admissions and what not, so they try to help and give advice as best they can, but they are definitely not experts on med school admissions so take what they say with a grain of salt. There are opportunities to research with them (as well as some COM faculty) which is pretty cool. Honestly, my only qualms with them are regarding their questions and slides.

We also get a learning specialist who you can meet with about how to study for classes / MCAT or time management and even for mock interviews and PS review. She is quite blunt and (in my experience) does not really bullsh** you about stuff. She will probably be the person who helps you the most and is more supportive than my advisors in undergrad.

The rest of the admin staff I didn't really interact with. However, I will say that at the beginning of the year they did stress how great of an opportunity we have and how great the program is etc. Please don't buy into that. At least not fully. This is an opportunity to get an II and possibly an acceptance but it is not a guarantee. Compared to other DO schools with similar programs KCU is pretty good. Compared to other post-baccs and SMPs they are not even in the top 10. Them saying stuff like this has made me cautious about trusting them about anything. Other students’ experiences and talking to some COM students has only confirmed my suspicions. Treat them like how most people treat HR departments. They're there to protect the company not you.

HOW THE INTERVIEW / ADMISSION WORKS:

If you get through all of this and maintain a 3.6 and >501 then you are guaranteed an interview. I would like to point out that people who I felt were more than qualified and smarter than others did not get the 3.6 / II, so if you are coming in to this program thinking this will be a sure thing then re-consider. They apparently reserve at least 40ish seats for the COB students. Our class had about 130 kids, probably 70-80 of which received interviews (this is an educated guess, but still conjecture). It's unlikely they are going to use the interview as the deciding factor of admission so it still reverts back to your GPA (in the program mostly but also your undergrad) and your MCAT. We had many people take the MCAT over the winter / in January, so many students that got IIs are hoping that their MCAT is good enough. You all get interviewed together at Joplin, so we have about 80 kids vying for 40 spots (split between both campuses). There will likely be waitlist movement so more than the 40 will get in, BUT THAT IS NOT A GUARANTEE. A lot of this process is a roll of the dice. Also, your acceptance is conditional so you have to finish the program and maintain certain standards in order for your acceptance to be honored. At this point we have no idea who will get in and how many, but there will be people who will feel some way about not getting in. This program (IMO) isn't designed as a pipeline for good students who need a chance / border line applicants unfortunately. I wish it was.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


VIRTUAL COURSES

Basically the rest of the spring semester was done virtually due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Early on there was a lot of technical difficulties in conducting the virtual lectures and recordings (which is fair) and eventually it was figured out. Transitioning to online learning and adapting to having to study from home did take a toll on a lot of the students and when we asked for a week extension for studying for the exams we were denied. There was a lot of poor communication between the school and us during this time (and for the rest of the semester imo) in what was happening and how classes and tests were going to be conducted. Ultimately a lot of this was out of their control, but I feel like they could have been more accommodating and had more open communication with its students. At certain points it seemed like the faculty/teachers but again this was probably a symptom of virtual learning. We also have a end of year comprehensive which I thought was dumb. We had to go over hundreds of slides per course only to be asked 20 questions some of which were random. It's P/F so not a huge deal.



ACCEPTANCES

We all interviewed in Feb and found out about admissions right before our test week. I wish they would pick better times since it can kill students motivations, but it is what it is. It seems like there was about ~25ish people who got accepted immediately and the rest were all wait-listed. Apparently the COB WL is separate from the general applicant pool, but I am not sure how they pull from the respective WLs. WL movement started around May (as with most schools) and probably 3-5 people have been pulled from the COB WL. I'm guessing another 10-15 will be pulled over time until July (right before the school year starts for med school).



What is kind of dumb about all this is that people were interviewed without knowing their MCAT scores and people got in with less than the 501 MCAT that KCU had designated as the cutoff for interviews. This was dumb for a few reasons

• some people who had the MCAT, but not the GPA were probably denied an interview
• why do these cutoffs exist if they are going to ignore them? There were people who got the GPA and above the MCAT but were denied over other applicants
  • I understand that applications are holistic and other aspects are important but it just seems arbitrary when the cutoffs are not followed. I don't mind people without the cutoffs getting into medical school (I honestly welcome it) but shouldn't the people who fulfilled the requirements be prioritized?

I'm also not sure how they decide between Joplin and KC but it seems partially random.





FINAL THOUGHTS:


I am not writing this with any intention of ****ting on the school or because I am butthurt about not getting an II (I in fact got one). I just felt that my experience in the program did not mirror what people have said in this thread or in past ones. I think it’s important to hear about the good and bad experiences so you guys deciding on this program can make a more informed decision because it is a HUGE financial and time investment for all of you. You, ultimately, have to weigh the risks and benefits and decide for yourself.


I feel like the program has somewhat prepared me for medical school, but not in content. I have learned how to better study and manage my time and got a peak behind the curtains of a medical school which is kinda cool. I have met a lot of awesome people in the program, and itt was cool to be in KC when the chiefs won the super bowl (esp. being from a city with no football team lol)


Plenty of people have gotten into other medical schools after completing (or during) this program. I’m sure this program has had some impact on people’s application success, but I can’t really speak to how much. There are also people who have loved their time here and are walking away having learned a lot in the process.


Take everything you have heard here (and elsewhere) with a grain of salt. Hope this helped. Any questions just pm me.

 

[lialalala]

Can anyone rate Georgetown MS in Physiology "Regular" program? (not SMP or Gsquared)

 

[LimitlessActionPotential]

Anyone from Ucinci's SMP that could message me? I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Dentistlife]

Can anybody rate Colorado biomedical sciences, MBS one year program?? Please private message me

 

[dolphin00]

Has anyone done Oakland University's Graduate Certificate in Biomedical Sciences? it is 16 credits

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Ok, I couldn't find any reviews for WashU yet, so here we go.

Washington University Post-Baccalaureate Premedical Program.

Reviewer Status: program graduate/incoming MS-1

1) The Pros and Cons of their program (structure of the program, learning environment, cost, location, faculty, classes, difficulty, competitiveness, other students, buildings/classrooms/facilities, etc..)

Pros

• Flexibility of the curriculum (career changer + enhancement tracks, and literally everything in-between)
• Night classes
• If you work full-time at WashU for a year, you can take up to 7 hours/semester almost completely free. My entire post-bacc program, save for a few fees here-and-there, was free. I know a few friends who had the same benefit. It draws the program out, but may help make it more feasible financially
• Beautiful facilities. WashU's campus is absolutely stunning and the lab spaces are great (you even get your own fume hood!).
• Access to resources. As a post-bacc student, you have access to the writing center (lifesaver when it comes to personal statements/secondaries), health center, supplemental instruction, advisors, gym + free classes, grad study rooms, etc.
• Generally good outcomes for students who complete the program. I believe that the med school acceptance rate is ~80-90%
• Being in a big city with close proximity to WashU, SLU, and ATSU helps with research/volunteer/shadowing opportunities
• Great faculty. Seriously, even my worst post-bacc professors were fantastic. They all genuinely care about their students and will go to the ends of the earth to help them succeed. They also treat students like adults and interact with them in a way that isn't condescending or patronizing. Seriously, I could go on all day about this.
• Night classes make it totally possible to complete the post-bacc while working full-time
• Very collaborative environment
• Available advisors who are willing to help you navigate the application process even after you graduate
• Very accessible using public transportation and campus parking is free after 5.
• Cover letter if you complete the program
• Linkages with University of Michigan and Case Western
• Smallish classes

Cons

• 8am/9am Saturday labs with undergrads
• Can be expensive.
• A few of the classes could have been a bit more rigorous (this could be a pro or a con lol)
• I haven't heard great things about their MCAT prep class
• There is a mandatory ~$250 "student health and wellness" fee
• Class availability isn't always perfect... For example, evening biochem is only offered in the fall.
• There are a few classes that occur during normal work hours, but these aren't usually the "essential" pre-reqs.
• Occasional difficulty with accessing resources available to undergraduate students
• St. Louis is a great city, but does have its issues. There are issues with crime, and I was fortunate enough to witness a carjacking a couple years ago near campus. Generally though, if you keep your wits about you, you'll be fine living in StL.

2) The kinds of classes you've taken and a description.
I did a combination of the career-changer and enhancement programs. I minored in biology in college, so there was no real reason to retake gen bio. Some of my fave classes were organic chemistry, topics in cancer biology, biochem, and anatomy/physiology. I'm not going to go into depth describing them because I'm sure you get the gist. PBL is also amazing, apparently.

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program
Study hard and it's totally doable. Also, you do have access to the grad lockers and study rooms. I was totally unaware of this until my friend told me right before my last year. Having a safe place to stash my stuff really was a game changer during MCAT szn.

4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program
Really take advantage of the resources. Seriously. They are there to help you build the strongest application you can build.

5) Tips for students applying to your program
Honestly, this program isn't super competitive, so you should be fine. If you have any concerns, the advisors are super willing to meet with you beforehand.

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?
Heck yeah. I met regularly with the writing center over the course of 5mos to build and revise my personal statement. My advisor has helped me to navigate this application process and avoid the occasional nervous breakdown. I also met some amazing friends and mentors through the program. My advisor also really was helpful when it came to building a realistic and balanced school list. The list was very tailored to my stats, interests, and ideal locations.

7) Anything else you'd like to add
WashU has really good food lol.

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)
5. I learned a lot and loved it...and now I'm headed to med school because of it!

 

[IWillMakeIt1]

Hi guys! Does anyone know how effective these two programs are for dental school acceptance? Has anyone been through these programs and received dental school acceptances? Thank you!


1. UIC Masters in Medical Physiology Program
2. Midwestern University(Downers Grove)- Master of Arts in Biomedical Sciences Program

 

[cp210]

Older thread, but figured I would add this, since I finished within the past year…

Villanova University Post-Baccalaureate Certificate Program ’21.

1) The Pros and Cons of their program (structure of the program, learning environment, cost, location, faculty, classes, difficulty, competitiveness, other students, buildings/classrooms/facilities, etc..)

Pros:

1. Application process is simple and straightforward - no LORs, no interviews, just rolling admission.
2. The advising team is very friendly and are committed to supporting the students in the College of Professional Studies. I know for a fact that they are implementing some changes to the program based on some of the feedback that my class provided.
3. The curriculum covers all of the core science courses that most graduate programs require. Students are also able to tailor their course plan to add electives that may also be necessary for graduate school admission. Students are also able to take as few or as many courses as they would like, which is perfect when you are working in addition to completing this program.
4. The professors are phenomenal. They are all very enthusiastic and care deeply about their students.
5. The location was pretty great. I lived in downtown Philadelphia and the commute via SEPTA was only about 35 minutes. There is a stop right on Villanova’s campus, which is convenient.

Cons:

1. As of when I completed the program, the students in the post-bacc program were not cohorted (but this is changing in the near future). As a result, the experience was relatively isolating since the post-bacc students were taking courses with the undergrads and were not provided with many opportunities to meet each other.
2. Cost. I would venture a guess that this program is on par with most others in terms of tuition, but living in Philadelphia can be pricy, especially when you don’t have roommates.
3. Cheating was a major issue, especially once classes moved online due to covid. The culture amongst all of the pre-health students (both undergrads and post-baccs) was really unhealthy. Most students were focused solely on getting As and not actually learning the material.

2) The kinds of classes you have taken and a description

Calculus I and II - very easy. All of the professors make their assessments straightforward and allow students to bring in a sheet of notes. Both professors that I had have left the school.

Bio I and II with Lab - each semester is taught by three different professors who split up the lectures. Some are better lecturers than others. The first semester focuses on cell biology and genetics. The second semester focuses on plants and ecology.

Chem I and II with Lab - solid. The two professors that I had were very knowledgable and gave many opportunities for extra credit, which was nice. The first semester focuses on the basic concepts of chemistry. The second semester starts to look at things like chemical kinetics, acid-base chemistry, factors that drive reactions, etc.

OChem I and II with Lab - really dependent on the professor, but if you study hard, you can definitely do well in this course. The first semester introduces the fundamentals of organic chemistry and addition/elimination/substitution reactions. The second semester focuses on special topics.

Physics I and II with Lab - also dependent on the professor. There is a lot of inconsistency between them. The two who I had were great at explaining things and providing examples that were very similar to the questions that showed up on exams. Other professor that I heard about really did a poor job and it showed in their average class grades. The first semester focuses on mechanics. The second semester looks at light and electricity.

Genetics - amazing. Taught by two professors, both of whom are hilarious. They provide really worksheets to help you understand the material.

Animal Physiology - if you enroll at Villanova, I urge you to take this course. Professor Stephens is one of the coolest professors that I have every come across. His class is very tough, but he goes out of his way to structure it in such a way that will benefit all fo the pre-health students, particularly those who are planning to take the MCAT.

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program

I wish that I had been aware that the post-bacc students were not cohorted. As a 28 year old, it felt very isolating taking courses with 18 year old freshman.

4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program

It is what you make of it. Despite my discomfort, I went out of my way to connect with my peers and professors. Most of the people are eager to connect and support one another.

5) Tips for students applying to your program

If you need to boost your GPA or take the prerequisites for medical/dental/veterinary school, Villanova is a great option. Just apply! As I mentioned above, the process is very easy.

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?

Yes, I will be starting at PennVet this fall!

7) Anything else you’d like to add

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)

I would rate it a 4.5 - I really enjoyed my time at Villanova.

 

[mbunga]

Hi everyone,
First post and hoping I can get some advice from current students.
I've been admitted to Columbia, UPenn, Northwestern and UMich postbaccs.
Most of the posts from these schools are a bit dated and was hoping that someone could give an updated review.
Thank you so so so much for any help.
Thanks all.

 

[MidwestOddOne]

Any info on Umich?

 

[hello109]

Does anyone have input on KCU COB and VCOM MABS? Those are the two programs I’m trying to decide between right now.

 

[Doctor P07]

Hello everyone,

I'm a student currently enrolled in the Certificate in Health Professions Preparation (CHPP) program and Nova Southeastern University KPCOM. The curriculum is based on a flipped classroom model with classes 2 days a week. Finishing the program with a 3.6 GPA guarantees you a direct acceptance into the medical school the following year. A 3.4-3.59 GPA guarantees you an interview.

I did fairly well during my undergrad education but certainly had some difficulties with the MCAT. I've been out of academia for some time now and was my biggest concern was being able to handle the course work that would be required of me during medical school. Completing this post-bacc program and having the opportunity to refine my studies and build habits before medical school begins has proven invaluable. Additionally, the opportunity to build connections with the faculty, all of which play a role in the medical school itself, has been beneficial. They all want to see you succeed and are willing to assist as needed.

If you are considering pursuing a post-bacc program, I highly recommend looking into and applying to this one. Attached is a link to the webpage and a flyer with some further information regarding the program. Feel free to reach out to anyone listed on the flyer for any questions.

There is also an in-person networking event coming up on Nov. 12 in Tennessee. For those of you who are interest, Dr. Brown, the program director will be there to provide information regarding the program and to answer any questions. The link for this event can be found here: Learn Serve Lead 2022: The AAMC Annual Meeting.

NSU KPCOM CERTIFICATE IN HEALTH PROFESSIONS PREPARATION (C.H.P.P.)

 

[pb2md123]

Just wanted to link my description of the experience I had in the Scripps Postbac program (here). I completed the program this past year (2022).

 

[SAK08540]

Older thread, but figured I would add this, since I finished within the past year…

Villanova University Post-Baccalaureate Certificate Program ’21.

1) The Pros and Cons of their program (structure of the program, learning environment, cost, location, faculty, classes, difficulty, competitiveness, other students, buildings/classrooms/facilities, etc..)

Pros:

1. Application process is simple and straightforward - no LORs, no interviews, just rolling admission.
2. The advising team is very friendly and are committed to supporting the students in the College of Professional Studies. I know for a fact that they are implementing some changes to the program based on some of the feedback that my class provided.
3. The curriculum covers all of the core science courses that most graduate programs require. Students are also able to tailor their course plan to add electives that may also be necessary for graduate school admission. Students are also able to take as few or as many courses as they would like, which is perfect when you are working in addition to completing this program.
4. The professors are phenomenal. They are all very enthusiastic and care deeply about their students.
5. The location was pretty great. I lived in downtown Philadelphia and the commute via SEPTA was only about 35 minutes. There is a stop right on Villanova’s campus, which is convenient.

Cons:

1. As of when I completed the program, the students in the post-bacc program were not cohorted (but this is changing in the near future). As a result, the experience was relatively isolating since the post-bacc students were taking courses with the undergrads and were not provided with many opportunities to meet each other.
2. Cost. I would venture a guess that this program is on par with most others in terms of tuition, but living in Philadelphia can be pricy, especially when you don’t have roommates.
3. Cheating was a major issue, especially once classes moved online due to covid. The culture amongst all of the pre-health students (both undergrads and post-baccs) was really unhealthy. Most students were focused solely on getting As and not actually learning the material.

2) The kinds of classes you have taken and a description

Calculus I and II - very easy. All of the professors make their assessments straightforward and allow students to bring in a sheet of notes. Both professors that I had have left the school.

Bio I and II with Lab - each semester is taught by three different professors who split up the lectures. Some are better lecturers than others. The first semester focuses on cell biology and genetics. The second semester focuses on plants and ecology.

Chem I and II with Lab - solid. The two professors that I had were very knowledgable and gave many opportunities for extra credit, which was nice. The first semester focuses on the basic concepts of chemistry. The second semester starts to look at things like chemical kinetics, acid-base chemistry, factors that drive reactions, etc.

OChem I and II with Lab - really dependent on the professor, but if you study hard, you can definitely do well in this course. The first semester introduces the fundamentals of organic chemistry and addition/elimination/substitution reactions. The second semester focuses on special topics.

Physics I and II with Lab - also dependent on the professor. There is a lot of inconsistency between them. The two who I had were great at explaining things and providing examples that were very similar to the questions that showed up on exams. Other professor that I heard about really did a poor job and it showed in their average class grades. The first semester focuses on mechanics. The second semester looks at light and electricity.

Genetics - amazing. Taught by two professors, both of whom are hilarious. They provide really worksheets to help you understand the material.

Animal Physiology - if you enroll at Villanova, I urge you to take this course. Professor Stephens is one of the coolest professors that I have every come across. His class is very tough, but he goes out of his way to structure it in such a way that will benefit all fo the pre-health students, particularly those who are planning to take the MCAT.

3) Something they wished they knew coming into the program

I wish that I had been aware that the post-bacc students were not cohorted. As a 28 year old, it felt very isolating taking courses with 18 year old freshman.

4) Something they would like to tell incoming students about your program

It is what you make of it. Despite my discomfort, I went out of my way to connect with my peers and professors. Most of the people are eager to connect and support one another.

5) Tips for students applying to your program

If you need to boost your GPA or take the prerequisites for medical/dental/veterinary school, Villanova is a great option. Just apply! As I mentioned above, the process is very easy.

6) Did it help you get into medical school/dental school/etc.?

Yes, I will be starting at PennVet this fall!

7) Anything else you’d like to add

8) A rating from 1-5 (1 being the worst (no recommendation) to 5 (full recommendation)

I would rate it a 4.5 - I really enjoyed my time at Villanova.

what was your GPA when applying?