Rank list help: best for CP training and quality of life

[dacrocytestorm]

How would you rank these programs? Pursuing AP/CP, interested in micro and molecular, and going into industry after training. Only requirement for location is a place with good entertainment/nightlife and assuming cost of living is not an issue. AP seems similar across the board so the main concern is the resources in CP. Anybody with more experience be able to confirm/correct my impressions of these places?

Cedars Sinai - decent molecular, top cancer center but really small institution; good location in LA.
Cornell - seems strong in micro; if you count MSK then molecular would be strongest here but it seems hard to wrangle electives there
Columbia - strong in transfusion?
Northwestern - nothing stands out in particular; better location than U Chicago
UW (seattle) - seems strongest for micro
UCSF - seems strong in molecular, unclear about others
U Chicago - seems strongest for transfusion
Yale - can't get a good read on how good micro/molecular are; transfusion seems strong

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[deleted314957]

Right now, in my opinion, the quality of life in NYC, Chicago, LA, San Fran and Seattle is for s***. And you may literally step in some. New Haven is certainly nothing to write home about nor is Ithaca, N.Y. Surely there must be places of CP excellence in micro and mol that aren’t in such hell holes. Texas, Boston, NC, FL?

 

[Spaziergängerin]

Don't know much about the west coast programs but Columbia, Cornell, Yale are all excellent choices and all have great micro. Yale I think would be the strongest for micro of the 3 for now but an MSK elective will be easiest from Cornell as there is an academic relationship there. Also look into NYU. Columbia is very strong in both transfusion medicine and molecular. One of the nicest things of chosing one of the NYC programs is that everyone knows each other in pathology and generally get along well, so it's not a big deal to do residency in one place and fellowship at another or 2 fellowships at 2 locations. All of the major programs in NYC offer some type of housing assistance to help offset the cost of living.

I disagree that NYC is not a great place to live. I'm a transplant from a small town in the Midwest and fell in love with the arts and culture here. It has the same problems as any big city, but there's so much diversity, culture, great food, anything in the world you could possibly want to do just a subway stop away. I lived in multiple places before landing in NYC and found it a very welcoming place with friendly people, which is not common for such a crowded place. It's an easy place to be different. No plans to leave and have never looked back.

 

[deleted314957]

Don't know much about the west coast programs but Columbia, Cornell, Yale are all excellent choices and all have great micro. Yale I think would be the strongest for micro of the 3 for now but an MSK elective will be easiest from Cornell as there is an academic relationship there. Also look into NYU. Columbia is very strong in both transfusion medicine and molecular. One of the nicest things of chosing one of the NYC programs is that everyone knows each other in pathology and generally get along well, so it's not a big deal to do residency in one place and fellowship at another or 2 fellowships at 2 locations. All of the major programs in NYC offer some type of housing assistance to help offset the cost of living.

I disagree that NYC is not a great place to live. I'm a transplant from a small town in the Midwest and fell in love with the arts and culture here. It has the same problems as any big city, but there's so much diversity, culture, great food, anything in the world you could possibly want to do just a subway stop away. I lived in multiple places before landing in NYC and found it a very welcoming place with friendly people, which is not common for such a crowded place. It's an easy place to be different. No plans to leave and have never looked back.

And be very careful at those subway stops. In FL, since we cannot carry a cop, we carry. NYC, you need to have “ spidey” sense and be able to run fast. Not allowed self defense unless you are a golden glove boxer. Perhaps my experience in major metro areas of the country combined with an FP background have made me more acutely aware of big city dangers. Perhaps I am paranoid. But like I said, if I could carry a cop, i would.

 

[Spaziergängerin]

And be very careful at those subway stops. In FL, since we cannot carry a cop, we carry. NYC, you need to have “ spidey” sense and be able to run fast. Not allowed self defense unless you are a golden glove boxer. Perhaps my experience in major metro areas of the country combined with an FP background have made me more acutely aware of big city dangers. Perhaps I am paranoid. But like I said, if I could carry a cop, i would.

Lol. True. I don't take the subway at night and only use the major stations. Fair point. Sometimes the subway cars are smelly and on occasion in the winter actual encampments so smelly you skip to the next train car over. It really depends on what one is looking for quality of life. I traded some safety and my sense of smell for no car, a wider social life, museums, music, and more options of things to do. For clean open space and unlocked doors, somewhere else is probably better.

 

[Guest8]

Far more risk of dying driving yourself in your car every day than taking the subway. Other than the rare sensationalist news story, subways are fine. I lived in NYC with no problems, I live in Boston with no problems. Never needed a gun on any subway, just some headphones so people don't try to talk to me and I can ignore them. Always amuses me hearing people who don't live in cities describe cities based on too much sensationalist news consumption.

 

[deleted314957]

Each to their own. It’s why we have a great nation.

 

[deleted314957]

Far more risk of dying driving yourself in your car every day than taking the subway. Other than the rare sensationalist news story, subways are fine. I lived in NYC with no problems, I live in Boston with no problems. Never needed a gun on any subway, just some headphones so people don't try to talk to me and I can ignore them. Always amuses me hearing people who don't live in cities describe cities based on too much sensationalist news consumption.

Just FYI, my significant background includes NYC, D.C., CT/NEW HAVEN, B’MORE, SOCAL and grew up/ med school in CHI. I an VERY familiar with “big cities”. Perhaps that can amuse you.

 

[dacrocytestorm]

Thanks for the help everyone. Upon further thought, "strong CP" seems to correlate with more work, and I've heard that you don't need to do much to pass the CP boards outside of reading Henry's. I'd prefer to be using my time working on projects that would help my career rather than doing more service for the CP services. Are any of these CP programs (or other big names, that have resources for doing your own research) known to give the residents very few responsibilities and let them self-guide their training?

 

[deleted314957]

Thanks for the help everyone. Upon further thought, "strong CP" seems to correlate with more work, and I've heard that you don't need to do much to pass the CP boards outside of reading Henry's. I'd prefer to be using my time working on projects that would help my career rather than doing more service for the CP services. Are any of these CP programs (or other big names, that have resources for doing your own research) known to give the residents very few responsibilities and let them self-guide their training?

If you want to do the standard CP, it is very easy to find places where you get a 2 year “sabbatical “ and are told to go read Todd and Sanford (i’m dating myself). You come out and will expect the average pass rate on boards. Pray you do not go into a hospital situation and become a medical director/dept head. ( particularly solo, not in academia).

If you want to be a good CP spend 6 months in the heme lab with the/a hematopathologist, then you spend 6 months with the boarded transfusion medicine person, ( our blood banker gave us weekly examinations) then you spend 6 month with the clinical chemistry pathologist in the chem lab, then you spend 4 months in the micro lab working up cultures, etc. with the medical microbiologist, then you spend 2 months in the molecular lab with the molecular pathologist. The schedule is 7/8 AM- 5/6 PM daily for these 2 years. (current state-of-the-art may alter those rotations a bit).

Then, if and when you are a hospital lab medical director you will NOT feel like a s*** for brains. And when you get a panicked call from the O.R. saying they need “fresh, whole blood right now” you will be able to keep your head and make the surgeon actually believe you when you tactfully educate him/her. And they will think you are God’s gift to clin path because you know exactly and CONVINCINGLY what to do and say.

You can either be good at this stuff or you can have a certificate that implies you are supposed to be good at this stuff.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Please don’t half ass CP. You can find a program that will train you well and still fit in projects.

 

[deleted314957]

Please don’t half ass CP. You can find a program that will train you well and still fit in projects.

Wholeheartedly, this question should be right up your alley. Clinical chemists, also please chime in. I am WELL into retirement but it seems to me some of the mandates going around that are based on covid testing are very flawed.

For example, you cannot do XYZ unless you have a negative covid test. It seems we are now in a VERY high prevalence environment and, as i recall, the predictive value (usefulness to put it in lay terms) of a negative test is very poor and gets poorer as prevalence goes up.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Wholeheartedly, this question should be right up your alley. Clinical chemists, also please chime in. I am WELL into retirement but it seems to me some of the mandates going around that are based on covid testing are very flawed.

For example, you cannot do XYZ unless you have a negative covid test. It seems we are now in a VERY high prevalence environment and, as i recall, the predictive value (usefulness to put it in lay terms) of a negative test is very poor and gets poorer as prevalence goes up.

I actually left my position and have shifted away from covid, so I’ve been taking a bit of a mental health break from all of that. I do know there is some debate among people with way more expertise than me on the topic of usefulness of neg tests considering prevalence issues, timing of test, viral load etc., pcr vs rapid antigen etc.

I think it also comes down to risk tolerance. Humans going to human so if they’re going to gather is a somewhat but not perfectly accurate testing protocol more helpful than having people still gather and do nothing? Or does a neg test make people engage in higher risk behavior than they would without the benefit of testing?

The biggest issue in all of this is these are really complex systems and they’re talked about way too simply. I’ve found when you talk to people about the complexity in easy to understand ways, they’re more understanding of uncertainty and things changing based on new information.