Radiation oncology now offered lowest locum rates in "radiology"?

[deleted573262]

Quo vadis rad onc.

*know their stuff

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[TheWallnerus]

*know their stuff

That’s how you know it’s authentic

 

[RickyScott]

Was recebtly cold called and offered 1100$ day for several days in rural Midwest. Would take a day of travel just to get to the site.

 

[randomname2018]

Locums opportunities have certainly changed. It seems that the total number of offers have decreased along with the daily rate. In the past I would get weekly emails with new opportunities in ok but not great locations. Lately it's been limited. Tough to say if they aren't contacting me at the same rate or that there isn't anything out there. I assume it's the latter to a greater degree than the former.

 

[medgator]

Locums opportunities have certainly changed. It seems that the total number of offers have decreased along with the daily rate. In the past I would get weekly emails with new opportunities in ok but not great locations. Lately it's been limited. Tough to say if they aren't contacting me at the same rate or that there isn't anything out there. I assume it's the latter to a greater degree than the former.

Quite the opposite now... I get emails now trying to let me know about available BC locums tenens looking for work at my practice and what states they are licensed in.

I've attached a recent email, the saddest part is that this is a younger physician and i think that physician has also emailed me directly looking for work as well. Really sad state of affairs in our specialty

 

[StIGMA]

I know a Fellow of ASTRO (FASTRO) looking for locums. Great job market, huh?

 

[TheWallnerus]

 

[Neuronix]

CompHealth is useless. I send them clear parameters for what I'm looking for, and I frequently get requests for things outside of my specs. Occasionally they'll let me know about something within my specifications, I'll tell them I'm interested, and I never hear back from them. If I'm especially lucky they'll make me send them a bunch of info before they ghost me. I also tell them write me e-mails, don't call me in the middle of my clinics, and then they still call me anyway with stuff again mostly out of my parameters. I stopped picking up anyone with an 801 area code.

I told a few locums agencies I'm not considering anything less than $1,500/day and they just stopped contacting me entirely. Someone else on SDN also PMed me recently looking to pay $1,000/day. I haven't done locums in 5 years because of this nonsense.

 

[RickyScott]

Know of several community hospitals who now are ok with no doc for a few hours or taking one day off w/out on-site coverage whereas in the past they were Absolute sticklers about presence.

 

[medgator]

Know of several community hospitals who now are ok with no doc for a few hours or taking one day off w/out on-site coverage whereas in the past they were Absolute sticklers about presence.

Someone, somewhere is always available via A/V communication via smartphone

 

[Mandelin Rain]

The conversations I have had with locums recruiters are pretty quick.

I tell them what I make for a day of work, 20 minutes from my family and house, in a city that I enjoy.

I tell them they better be prepared to beat it if I'm driving 5 hours away from my family, in a city I have no desire to be in.

At that point, the conversation ends.

I encourage literally everyone to do the same. They only offer 1K to board certified MDs because someone is willing to accept it.

 

[dieABRdie]

More evidence of our red hot market from our favorite coordinator and locums agency:

 

[medgator]

The conversations I have had with locums recruiters are pretty quick.

I tell them what I make for a day of work, 20 minutes from my family and house, in a city that I enjoy.

I tell them they better be prepared to beat it if I'm driving 5 hours away from my family, in a city I have no desire to be in.

At that point, the conversation ends.

I encourage literally everyone to do the same. They only offer 1K to board certified MDs because someone is willing to accept it.

Lifetime grandfathered ABR certification FTW.... A healthy supply of retired boomer rad oncs helps no one, least of all new grads coming into a saturated market

 

[metallica81788]

Lifetime grandfathered ABR certification FTW.... A healthy supply of retired boomer rad oncs helps no one, least of all new grads coming into a saturated market

Like I've said before, this is just as big of a problem for the next 5-10 years as the resident oversupply and nobody outside of here is discussing it. These people will DIE at the linac and either have an educated resident army to hopefully protect their contours, a dosimetrist that is essentially practicing radiation oncology without a license, or an entire staff of plebs that are too afraid to say anything.

 

[wamcp]

will try to copy the entire email (from a large national locums staffing firm) below.

Daily pay rates
Low range locums for rad onc, diagnostic/general, breast imaging, neurointerventional, interventional:
$1500 vs $1700 vs $1800 vs $2000 vs $2200 (r-sq: 0.98, p=0.0004)
High range locums for rad onc, diagnostic/general, breast imaging, interventional, neurointerventional:
$2500 vs $2500 vs $2800 vs $3200 vs $5000 (r-sq: 0.74, p=0.06)

----------------------------

My name is Daniel and I'm on the Radiology Staffing team at ASR. We're currently working with 200+ facilities with active opportunities throughout the U.S. Below, I listed our most active (aggressively seeking facilities) locum tenens jobs. *We can activate new state licenses for most of these jobs.* Please feel free to reply with your specialty preferences so I can follow-up with more applicable options. Staffing Every Radiology Service-line: General / Diagnostic Breast Imaging Interventional NeuroInterventional NeuroRadiology Nuclear Medicine MSK Radiology Body Imaging Cardiac Imaging & Radiation Oncology​ Hottest Jobs: ​ Neurointerventional - 3 Active Jobs - MO, TX, GA Compensation - Industry Avg. Range = $2000 - $5000 per day Hottest Jobs: Texas - Houston - 4 Locations All Star Recruiting is seeking a Radiologist for NIR Locum call coverage in Texas. Some details include: ​ Daily patient volume: Avg. 2 Primary Stroke Center Meditech EMR Board Certification required TX License Required Seeking Physicians for 3-5 day assignments, flexible scheduling Coverage needed for vacations, holidays, etc... California - Southern CA… close to Los Angeles All Star Recruiting is seeking Radiologists for Stroke-Call coverage in California. ​ Board Certified Inpatient 24hr call High-Quality Facilities Stroke Coverage / Light Rounding Low - Moderate Volume Specializing in stroke-related procedures EMR: Epic 1-2 Weeks Per Month Multiple Locations - avg. approx. 100 strokes per year at each facility  Locums physician will cover one facility per assignment. Group of Radiologists, covering multiple facilities. NeuroRadiology - 1 Active Job - FL Florida - Gulf Coast All Star Recruiting is seeking a Neuroradiologist for locum coverage in Florida. Board Certified ​ Outpatient M-F No call 100% Neuroradiology Full-Time Coverage April - August Locums to permanent opportunity High Quality Imaging Center Founded and operated by Radiologists This is a very established outpatient facility that is founded and operated by Radiologists. They've been growing in the community for over 40 years. They pride themselves on high-quality care and they're seeking a skilled physician to fill a full-time position. Breast Imaging - 14 Active Jobs Compensation - Industry Avg. Range = $1800 - $2800 per day Hottest Jobs: New York - Westchester County All Star Recruiting is seeking a Fellowship-trained Breast Imaging Radiologist for Locum coverage in New York. Some details include: Outpatient based practice; 60% breast imaging; balance in MR, CT, US, bone densitometry; Expect 3D, Diagnostics and Breast MR; No biopsies or interventions; Volume averages 25-28 patients per day; Coverage is needed these dates: 4/14-17 5/28 and 5/29 6/1-6/5 6/8-6/12 9/7-11 Future dates to be determined 8-hour day, typically 8-5, with an hour for lunch; Hologic Mammo, Powerscribe, GE PACS, and MedQ RIS; Massachusetts - Boston Area All Star Recruiting needs a Breast Imaging Radiologist for Locum coverage in Massachusetts. Some details include:​ Start as soon as you are credentialed; Ongoing need; Flexible to week blocks (M-F); Expect Breast US, digital mammo including Tomo, screening and diagnostic mammo, and FNA's; 100% Mammo Optional to perform Breast MR and stereotactic biopsies; Equipment is Hologic and GE, with Mckesson PACS; Typical day is 8-5, M-F; Massachusetts' largest network of hospitals and doctors with a market share of 22% in the eastern part of the state. Diagnostic / General - 31 Active Jobs Compensation - Industry Avg. Range = $1700 - $2500 per day Hottest Jobs: South Dakota - Southeast SD - Rapid City All Star Recruiting is seeking a Radiologist for Locum coverage in South Dakota. Some details include: ​ Proficiency needed in reading MR, CT, US, plain films and Nuc Light IR (occasional biopsies/drains, etc...) needed 8a-5p No call Full support of staff: techs, nurses, etc... Board Certification not required Coverage needed April 27 through May 1 Future dates to be determined When can you start and what availability can you offer, ongoing? Pennsylvania - Philadelphia AREA All Star Recruiting is seeking a Body Imaging-based Radiologist for Locum coverage in Pennsylvania. Some details include: ​ Focus will be Body Imaging-based reads; Average is 23-25 studies per day, mostly CT, some MR; (low volume do to complexity - Cancer center) Likely also some (10 or so) plain films as well; Biopsies not required, but helpful; Neuro is optional; No IR or Mammo; Full support staff: techs, nurses, etc... Board Certification required; Typically 8a-5p daily; Pennsylvania license needed due to quick start date; Typically multiple weeks (M-F) need each month; Known dates needing coverage 3/3 -6 (Tues-Fri) 3/11-13 (Wed-Fri) Future dates TBD ​ What availability do you have ongoing? Interventional Radiology - 15 Active Jobs Compensation - Industry Avg. Range = $2200 - $3200 per day Hottest Jobs: Missouri & Illinois - …1.5 hours south of St. Louis. Radiology > Interventional All Star Recruiting is seeking an Interventional Radiologist for Locum coverage. Some details include: ​ Expect 100% IR; Perform the majority of VIR, including oncologic IR, PVD, vein work, etc... Aortic Stent Grafts would be a plus; but, are not required; The practice covers multiple hospitals, although you would be focused at one at a time; ABR board-certified and IR certification needed; MO and/or IL licensed preferred, but willing to license if needed; 5 day (M-F) or 7-day (M-M) blocks preferred, multiple blocks available monthly; This is an ongoing need; When can you start and what availability can you offer? Dates Needed: 3/10 (7AM) to 3/14 (5PM) 4/20 (7AM) to 4/24 (5PM) 5/18 (7AM) to 5/22 (5PM) 6/8 (7AM) to 6/26 (5PM) Michigan - Approx. 1.5 hours from Detroit All Star Recruiting is seeking a Radiologist for locum coverage in Michigan. ​ Board Certified Radiology Monday - Friday 8a-5p MI license required March 2 start with ongoing for several weeks 100% Interventional Radiology EMR: Cerner Seeking physician with full-time or part-time availability Preferably at least two weeks per month This is a practice that covers a local hospital Daily volume is 5-12 with vast majority of days under 10. Radiation Oncology - 5 Active Jobs Compensation - Industry Avg. Range = $1500 - $2500 per day Hottest Jobs: New York - Upstate NY - close to Albany All Star Recruiting is seeking a Radiation Oncologist for Locum coverage in New York. Some details include: ​ Skills needed: external beam, IMRT, IGRT, Rapid Arc but no specialized procedures Volume: 8 new patients per week Typically 10-15 patients on treatment ​ The schedule is M-F, 8a to 5p Coverage needed ongoing Will consider Locum-to-Perm if you are interested Staff includes 2 RTTs, 1 RN, Scheduler, Patient Care Tech, and a manager Site is a newer center with ARIA 13.5 being upgraded in January When can you start and what availability can you offer Dates Needed March 9 - April 24th Pennsylvania - Southern PA - 2 Cancer Centers All Star Recruiting is seeking a Radiation Oncologist for Locum coverage in Pennsylvania. It is a one physician Radiation Oncology practice, seeking vacation coverage for one week at a time. Some details include: 7:30am until 4pm, M-F No overnight call Avg 18 pts/ day on treatment Known dates: Start Date: 4/27 - 5/1 (Mon-Fri) Start Date: 5/5 - 5/8 (Tues-Fri) Second Location Start Date: 5/18 - 5/22 (Mon-Fri) Future dates TBD Pennsylvania license and ABR Certification required ​

​ ​ ​

My job is to help you find - ADDITIONAL REVENUE STREAMS $$$ Feel free to reply with your assignment preferences so I can follow-up with more applicable options.​

Wait a minute.

i’m “just” a hospitalist and...i’ve been getting paid more per hour than a radonc? What has this world come to

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Wait a minute.

i’m “just” a hospitalist and...i’ve been getting paid more per hour than a radonc? What has this world come to

Brother, you got nothing to worry about by looking at what is in out plates, just moldy bread and cuts of meat not even edible for dog food from the breadlines. Our field is now the most undesirable field in medicine.

 

[medgator]

Wait a minute.

i’m “just” a hospitalist and...i’ve been getting paid more per hour than a radonc? What has this world come to

You probably got to live in a place with better and more variety of biryani too (inside joke.... Rad Onc has terrible geographic determinability)

 

[wamcp]

You probably got to live in a place with better and more variety of biryani too (inside joke.... Rad Onc has terrible geographic determinability)

I live downtown in a big metro city (think houston, NYC, chicago, SF etc kind of city) but I have to drive 30-40 min depending on traffic to get to the suburb hospitals i work at. Downtown is saturated with lower pay, but in the burbs i snag anywhere from $2000 to 2700 per moonlighting shift (depends on if it’s 8 hour, 10 hour or 12 hour shifts)

In any case seems insane radonc locums isn’t paid more...I don’t have the smarts to understand whatever you guys do. And was nowhere near the top of my med school class to have gotten in if i had tried to apply

 

[medgator]

I live downtown in a big metro city (think houston, NYC, chicago, SF etc kind of city) but I have to drive 30-40 min depending on traffic to get to the suburb hospitals i work at. Downtown is saturated with lower pay, but in the burbs i snag anywhere from $2000 to 2700 per moonlighting shift (depends on if it’s 8 hour, 10 hour or 12 hour shifts)

In any case seems insane radonc locums isn’t paid more...I don’t have the smarts to understand whatever you guys do. And was nowhere near the top of my med school class to have gotten in if i had tried to apply

Basic supply and demand... Too many of us chasing a limited supply of jobs

 

[evilbooyaa]

I live downtown in a big metro city (think houston, NYC, chicago, SF etc kind of city) but I have to drive 30-40 min depending on traffic to get to the suburb hospitals i work at. Downtown is saturated with lower pay, but in the burbs i snag anywhere from $2000 to 2700 per moonlighting shift (depends on if it’s 8 hour, 10 hour or 12 hour shifts)

In any case seems insane radonc locums isn’t paid more...I don’t have the smarts to understand whatever you guys do. And was nowhere near the top of my med school class to have gotten in if i had tried to apply

Well if you want to be a rad onc still with this job market, I know about 50 programs that would love to train you! Bonus points if you are a US MD or a DO grad.

 

[RSAOaky]

I live downtown in a big metro city (think houston, NYC, chicago, SF etc kind of city) but I have to drive 30-40 min depending on traffic to get to the suburb hospitals i work at. Downtown is saturated with lower pay, but in the burbs i snag anywhere from $2000 to 2700 per moonlighting shift (depends on if it’s 8 hour, 10 hour or 12 hour shifts)

In any case seems insane radonc locums isn’t paid more...I don’t have the smarts to understand whatever you guys do. And was nowhere near the top of my med school class to have gotten in if i had tried to apply

I did a locum 3 years ago in a small town 2 hours outside of NYC for $1200 a day (I was a new grad at the time). I frequently saw that same opportunity in the years that followed until our supervision requirements changed. Haven't seen it since.

Radonc locums typically do little more than babysit a clinic. There is an endless and growing supply of retired boomers willing to sit in an office for $150 an hour and, partly due to changes in supervision requirements, a declining demand for them. Hospitalist gigs pay more because they generally have to work for the money, or at least that's my impression.

 

[wamcp]

I did a locum 3 years ago in a small town 2 hours outside of NYC for $1200 a day (I was a new grad at the time). I frequently saw that same opportunity in the years that followed until our supervision requirements changed. Haven't seen it since.

Radonc locums typically do little more than babysit a clinic. There is an endless and growing supply of retired boomers willing to sit in an office for $150 an hour and, partly due to changes in supervision requirements, a declining demand for them. Hospitalist gigs pay more because they generally have to work for the money, or at least that's my impression.

Day hospitalists tend to have to do more in my experience. I do full time nights and half my time is spent on watching netflix or playing games on steam. Of course, it’s nights which suck.

why are retired radonc coming out to do locums though? If I’m retired i want to stay retired

 

[TheWallnerus]

Day hospitalists tend to have to do more in my experience. I do full time nights and half my time is spent on watching netflix or playing games on steam. Of course, it’s nights which suck.

why are retired radonc coming out to do locums though? If I’m retired i want to stay retired

Whereas half your time you can watch Netflix in a hospital at 1am the locums rad oncs can spend about 99% of time watching Netflix in a cush office at 11am.

 

[Neuronix]

Anonymous sent to me by PM but I can vouch for the authenticity since I know the person who sent it to me and I suspect I know who they are referring to.

A resident colleague of mine was just offered locums in FL for $3,000.... per week.

No joke. It's important to get these data points out there... no matter how anecdotal they might be.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Anonymous sent to me by PM but I can vouch for the authenticity since I know the person who sent it to me and I suspect I know who they are referring to.

$600 per day everyone. Costs more to have a CPA do your taxes.

 

[medgator]

Anonymous sent to me by PM but I can vouch for the authenticity since I know the person who sent it to me and I suspect I know who they are referring to.

Supervision reg changes and move to tele have absolutely decimated the locums market in anywhere remotely desirable. I'm pretty sure the only locums jobs that are secure are ones where you actually to have run the practice and get patients under beam, not just babysit a Linac

 

[RickyScott]

Whereas half your time you can watch Netflix in a hospital at 1am the locums rad oncs can spend about 99% of time watching Netflix in a cush office at 11am.

True, but a lot of radonc locums is not nearby and included uncompensated travel time.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Anonymous sent to me by PM but I can vouch for the authenticity since I know the person who sent it to me and I suspect I know who they are referring to.

Sad when attendings have to start living at home with their parents to save money.

 

[deleted969641]

Rural locations still paying up to $3000/day. Going rate through an agency is $1600/day. I recently asked for $2800 from an agency and they asked me why I thought I should get paid such a high amount. I replied it's a rural location and I know for a fact that the facility would be paying your agency more than that. They thought for a second and said, ok, will you do $2700? Ended up not taking it. As noted above, many of these places will require 5-6 hours of driving each way. I've done it before, but you have to kill at least a day. Leave at 2AM to show up at 8, stay a few nights for your assignment, then burn a day driving home. For $1200/day? Hard pass. Big cities saturated with dusty licenses of retirees who are bored? Yeah, I can see sub $1000 rates. Of course, there are going to be some genius MBA admins who run some numbers and figure out it's cheaper to hire a low level admin whose job is to basically keep the clinic staffed with different $1000/locums every week than to pay a fulltime radonc MGMA or even a single long term locums and deliver consistent care. I guarantee you that is happening somewhere. And the CEO/CFO probably brags about it to the board and gets a bonus.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Rural locations still paying up to $3000/day. Going rate through an agency is $1600/day. I recently asked for $2800 from an agency and they asked me why I thought I should get paid such a high amount. I replied it's a rural location and I know for a fact that the facility would be paying your agency more than that. They thought for a second and said, ok, will you do $2700? Ended up not taking it. As noted above, many of these places will require 5-6 hours of driving each way. I've done it before, but you have to kill at least a day. Leave at 2AM to show up at 8, stay a few nights for your assignment, then burn a day driving home. For $1200/day? Hard pass. Big cities saturated with dusty licenses of retirees who are bored? Yeah, I can see sub $1000 rates. Of course, there are going to be some genius MBA admins who run some numbers and figure out it's cheaper to hire a low level admin whose job is to basically keep the clinic staffed with different $1000/locums every week than to pay a fulltime radonc MGMA or even a single long term locums and deliver consistent care. I guarantee you that is happening somewhere. And the CEO/CFO probably brags about it to the board and gets a bonus.

Carlsbad NM basically ended up doing this. They hired part time locums to cover a few days. All of a sudden a job offering 600+ evaporated. This is happening all over the place.

many of these rural jobs are also total ruses. The admins pull a switch and bait. Remember KHE stories about their situation. You don’t know it is a good job until you get there.

 

[Neuronix]

Rural locations still paying up to $3000/day. Going rate through an agency is $1600/day. I recently asked for $2800 from an agency and they asked me why I thought I should get paid such a high amount. I replied it's a rural location and I know for a fact that the facility would be paying your agency more than that. They thought for a second and said, ok, will you do $2700? Ended up not taking it. As noted above, many of these places will require 5-6 hours of driving each way. I've done it before, but you have to kill at least a day. Leave at 2AM to show up at 8, stay a few nights for your assignment, then burn a day driving home. For $1200/day? Hard pass. Big cities saturated with dusty licenses of retirees who are bored? Yeah, I can see sub $1000 rates. Of course, there are going to be some genius MBA admins who run some numbers and figure out it's cheaper to hire a low level admin whose job is to basically keep the clinic staffed with different $1000/locums every week than to pay a fulltime radonc MGMA or even a single long term locums and deliver consistent care. I guarantee you that is happening somewhere. And the CEO/CFO probably brags about it to the board and gets a bonus.

I know an MD owned/run practice that does exactly this. It's not just the MBAs looking to take advantage.

 

[medgator]

I know an MD owned/run practice that does exactly this. It's not just the MBAs looking to take advantage.

Can you blame them? Often if you can find retired locums in the area and it's a saturated market, there's no point in trying to go through an agency, let alone offer more to someone else from out of the area. Cutting out the locums agency is a big win-win for both the practice and the locums themselves.

Rates would of course be higher if academics like Hallahan, Potters et al weren't churning out so many grads to lower salaries across the board, coupled of course with the ABR letting boomers remain grandfathered for life.

 

[RickyScott]

I know an MD owned/run practice that does exactly this. It's not just the MBAs looking to take advantage.

I don’t think md Anderson “owns” any practices outside Houston. They license their name like Trump for about 5 mill per year (what they wanted from my hospital), (but they have a menu of affiliation tiers). Mdacc Probably takes in about 100 mill a year as pure profit this way.

 

[medgator]

I don’t think md Anderson “owns” any practices outside Houston. They license their name like Trump for about 5 mill per year (what they wanted from my hospital), (but they have a menu of affiliation tiers). Mdacc Probably takes in about 100 mill a year as pure profit this way.

I think @Neuronix was referring to a physician "MD" owned practice doing it

 

[RickyScott]

I think @Neuronix was referring to a physician "MD" owned practice doing it

Oops my bad - thought I saw mdacc in his post not md

 

[Neuronix]

Cutting out the locums agency is a big win-win for both the practice and the locums themselves.

It would be if the practice was trying to split the difference. I just get the same bad rate offers either way. I.e. The practice just wants to pocket the difference and not split it with me. I tell them I'm not interested and nobody has come back to significantly bargain with me.

Can you blame them? Often if you can find retired locums in the area and it's a saturated market, there's no point in trying to go through an agency, let alone offer more to someone else from out of the area. Cutting out the locums agency is a big win-win for both the practice and the locums themselves.

Rates would of course be higher if academics like Hallahan, Potters et al weren't churning out so many grads to lower salaries across the board, coupled of course with the ABR letting boomers remain grandfathered for life.

This isn't exactly what I meant. The practice I'm referring to could hire a full time rad onc but they don't. They have a rotating crew of locums at $1,000/day that I participated in 5 years ago. They're only interested in hiring full time if it will cost the same or maybe minimally more than the locums crew. $1,000/day x 52 weeks x 5 workdays/week = $260,000/year. Plus with locums there are no cost for benefits or employment taxes, just 1099 for the practice. So that's what they look to hire for ($260k ish) with no partnership track. Not interested? Whatever they'll keep their rotating locums crew.

 

[RickyScott]

It would be if the practice was trying to split the difference. I just get the same bad rate offers either way. I.e. The practice just wants to pocket the difference and not split it with me. I tell them I'm not interested and nobody has come back to significantly bargain with me.



This isn't exactly what I meant. The practice I'm referring to could hire a full time rad onc but they don't. They have a rotating crew of locums at $1,000/day that I participated in 5 years ago. They're only interested in hiring full time if it will cost the same or maybe minimally more than the locums crew. $1,000/day x 52 weeks x 5 workdays/week = $260,000/year. Plus with locums there are no cost for benefits or employment taxes, just 1099 for the practice. So that's what they look to hire for ($260k ish) with no partnership track. Not interested? Whatever they'll keep their rotating locums crew.

Unless they are really busy, they don’t need a doc on site every day- could save some more money that way? Doc will cost less than physics.

 

[seper]

I know a practice like you described. Fortunately for us, resulting quality of care is suboptimal, and their Radonc admins get a lot of complaints from other specialties

It would be if the practice was trying to split the difference. I just get the same bad rate offers either way. I.e. The practice just wants to pocket the difference and not split it with me. I tell them I'm not interested and nobody has come back to significantly bargain with me.



This isn't exactly what I meant. The practice I'm referring to could hire a full time rad onc but they don't. They have a rotating crew of locums at $1,000/day that I participated in 5 years ago. They're only interested in hiring full time if it will cost the same or maybe minimally more than the locums crew. $1,000/day x 52 weeks x 5 workdays/week = $260,000/year. Plus with locums there are no cost for benefits or employment taxes, just 1099 for the practice. So that's what they look to hire for ($260k ish) with no partnership track. Not interested? Whatever they'll keep their rotating locums crew.

 

[deleted941485]

Quo vadis rad onc.

Meanwhile Locum rates are higher for Med onc now than for rad onc lol

 

[medgator]

Meanwhile Locum rates are higher for Med onc now than for rad onc lol

Yup

 

[TheWallnerus]

Yup

Takes only 4 rando med onc job listings to cover America's geography coast to coast. Flexibility mucho!

 

[fiji128]

Quo vadis rad onc.

Great example of why Rad Onc needs to fold back into Radiology as a fellowship.

 

[deleted941485]

Great example of why Rad Onc needs to fold back into Radiology as a fellowship.

Great example for getting out of a dead end in by making in roads with other fields. Like med-onc or even radiology. Christ its depressing. Seriously ASTRO should use whatever gravitas they have and make that a possibility. I don't care if I take an income hit so long as it means I get a viable field to work in.

 

[maxxor]

Great example of why Rad Onc needs to fold back into Radiology as a fellowship.

Merge with IR. Hasn’t Zeitman been pushing that for a while?

 

[medgator]

Great example of why Rad Onc needs to fold back into Radiology as a fellowship.

Would be fine if we just torched half the spots for several years and started taking quality grads again. Just won't happen. Unfortunately i don't see us folding back into radiology either. Just more pain ahead for those that decide to take the plunge

 

[deleted941485]

Would be fine if we just torched half the spots for several years and started taking quality grads again. Just won't happen. Unfortunately i don't see us folding back into radiology either. Just more pain ahead for those that decide to take the plunge

halving spots will never happen but at least with making other avenues open chairs will still get their slave labor and may not object

Cause oligomets...not gonna keep anybody employed

 

[fiji128]

Would be fine if we just torched half the spots for several years and started taking quality grads again. Just won't happen. Unfortunately i don't see us folding back into radiology either. Just more pain ahead for those that decide to take the plunge

Absolutely no way programs will contract on their own in a meaningful way. See the Columbia thread. Everyone believes their program is awesome. At least if rad onc is a fellowship after radiology you can always fall back on jobs like the above if need be.

 

[deleted941485]

I would also submit that RO should not have any additional "quality grads" look how that was wasted on retrospective analysis and no progress. The smart ones figured out there's no point in sticking around and went into practice. They squandered that talent.

 

[seper]

Mission Search used to be OK for locums, although it’s been like 3 years since someone I know used them. Small practices don’t have time to do their own recruitment

Recruiters are some of the biggest scum out there. How do these firms even exist when so much of there functioning has been brought in house?

 

[thecarbonionangle]

The situation is dire because even if you took no residents for many years for the entire field, 100s of people would be pumped into job market over next few years, one that is oversupplied by the most conservative estimates. Folding into rads or opening up a med onc pathway would not help many young ROs unless they want to retrain which is hard once you have bought a house, have kids, to go back to “living like a resident”.
We will see a lot of suffering and ruin in the breadlines. The situation is depressing af.