I have heard this 'AOA' being used frequently, what does it stand for? '21% of people who matched had AOA status.' Also, how hard is it to attain this classification? Thanks.
Quick Question: AOA
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It's an honor society for medical students. Each school's society has a set of requirements for entrance, but usually it is considered to be the top 10-15% of the class.
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No. AOA is an allopathic honor society. There may be an equivalent for DO's but I don't know anthing about it.
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Man I am so sick of this DO=MD thing, but here is the low down on it.
If you do an AOA NS residency, when you graduate, you are eligible to be board certified through the ACOS.
Now if you do an ACGME NS program as a DO then of course you are eligible to be board certified through the ACS.
Now, here is the tricky part, so follow along. If you are a DO and do an ACGME program, you can petition the AOA to approve your internship/residency in an ACGME program as an equivalent to an AOA residency if you have a good enough reason, for example, in my case, I have a military obligation, all military residencies are ACGME, I have no choice, AOA understands this and has approved my program as an AOA equivalent. What does this all mean if you do this? When you graduate, you can be board eligible through the ACS, ACOS, or both if you desired to do so; however, most warn that if you do this, you are obligated for extra CME to meet the requirements of both boards when you are an attending.
So, if the AOA can approve a DO that does an ACGME residency as an AOA residency equivalent and ultimately sit for an AOA board certification, then why isn't the opposite true. Well, there are only nine AOA NS residencies out there. In general, for most specialties, there are few AOA residencies out there. So it is beneficial for the AOA to welcome these DO's that are ACGME trained with open arms with the hopes that they become AOA advocates (especially financially) and so that they can participate in osteopathic education, do AOA CME, educate/lecture at DO school, be attendings at AOA residency programs, etc. The reverse is not true
Now, what does this mean for say yourself if you did an AOA NS program? Nothing! Here about what would happen to you if you did an AOA NS program....................
If you want a license to practice medicine, every state has requirements for what you need to do, and in most states it is different for DO's no matter if they train ACGME or AOA program. For a number of states, you have to at least pass COMLEX III and finish an internship, doesn't matter if the intenship is ACGME or AOA. Of course, there are those few states that you have to take an OMT test in addition to the latter. Ok, so pretty much, you can get state license pretty easily, check in the box!!
Then what? You'd finish your AOA residency and be board eligible to sit for the ACOS exam. Does this make you any different than a person that did an ACGME residency and can sit for the ACS exam? Yes and no. Because no matter who you are, if you want to be an attending at any hospital, when you apply for privileges at that particular hospital there are a couple of things they are going to want to know about you.
1) Did you graduate from a residency program in the specialty you are claiming to be an expert in? Doesn't matter if it was AOA or ACGME
2) If you did number 1, then you are obviously eligible to sit for either ACOS or ACS exam. Doesn't matter which one you take, just as long as you take one of them and pass because after all, you are claiming to be a neurosurgeon, being board certified will give you a legal foot to stand on in the court no matter if ACS or ACOS
3) What procedures at the hospital are you asking to be creditentialed to perform and can you provide documentation that you received adequate training to do said procedures either while in residency or through CME courses? It doesn't matter if you trained at an AOA or ACGME program, if you can show documentation that you did 500 laminectomies during your residency training, then the hospital will creditential you to do these procedures. The best example I can think of this is say, a general surgeon doesn't need to go do a vascular surgery fellowship if he/she want to do CEA's at a hospital if he/she could provide adequate documentation to the hospital's creditialing committee that performed X number of these while in training at a gen surg program.
So, really, here is what it all boils down to. Number 3 above is the most important thing for you to consider if you seriously apply to an AOA institution for NS residency (and ACGME for that matter) The fact that you'd have DO FACOS at the end of your title is not important, what is important is that you get licensed and train at a program that offers you adequate training to do all of the procedures you'd like to do as an attending. Look at quality of the program, volume of surgeries performed at the institution, how much hands on experience you will get, etc.
For example, if you train at a program that does mostly laminectomies and craniotomies, then guess what, that is all you will do as an attending. Does the program offer opportunity to be trained in areas such as skull base surgery, minimally invasive surgery, endovascular/neurovascular procedures, cool stuff like parkinson and epilepsy surgeries, pediatric neurosurgery, neuro ICU/trauma, etc.
And I suppose my last writing will be a warning. If you want to train at an AOA NS program, go there because you like the institution and think they have fine training. NEVER compete for an AOA residency in any specialty because you think it will be less competitive than an ACGME program to actually get a spot. I would highly discourage anybody from thinking this. AOA residencies in NS, ortho, derm, etc are every bit as difficult to obtain as an ACGME spot.
If you do an AOA NS residency, when you graduate, you are eligible to be board certified through the ACOS.
Now if you do an ACGME NS program as a DO then of course you are eligible to be board certified through the ACS.
Now, here is the tricky part, so follow along. If you are a DO and do an ACGME program, you can petition the AOA to approve your internship/residency in an ACGME program as an equivalent to an AOA residency if you have a good enough reason, for example, in my case, I have a military obligation, all military residencies are ACGME, I have no choice, AOA understands this and has approved my program as an AOA equivalent. What does this all mean if you do this? When you graduate, you can be board eligible through the ACS, ACOS, or both if you desired to do so; however, most warn that if you do this, you are obligated for extra CME to meet the requirements of both boards when you are an attending.
So, if the AOA can approve a DO that does an ACGME residency as an AOA residency equivalent and ultimately sit for an AOA board certification, then why isn't the opposite true. Well, there are only nine AOA NS residencies out there. In general, for most specialties, there are few AOA residencies out there. So it is beneficial for the AOA to welcome these DO's that are ACGME trained with open arms with the hopes that they become AOA advocates (especially financially) and so that they can participate in osteopathic education, do AOA CME, educate/lecture at DO school, be attendings at AOA residency programs, etc. The reverse is not true
Now, what does this mean for say yourself if you did an AOA NS program? Nothing! Here about what would happen to you if you did an AOA NS program....................
If you want a license to practice medicine, every state has requirements for what you need to do, and in most states it is different for DO's no matter if they train ACGME or AOA program. For a number of states, you have to at least pass COMLEX III and finish an internship, doesn't matter if the intenship is ACGME or AOA. Of course, there are those few states that you have to take an OMT test in addition to the latter. Ok, so pretty much, you can get state license pretty easily, check in the box!!
Then what? You'd finish your AOA residency and be board eligible to sit for the ACOS exam. Does this make you any different than a person that did an ACGME residency and can sit for the ACS exam? Yes and no. Because no matter who you are, if you want to be an attending at any hospital, when you apply for privileges at that particular hospital there are a couple of things they are going to want to know about you.
1) Did you graduate from a residency program in the specialty you are claiming to be an expert in? Doesn't matter if it was AOA or ACGME
2) If you did number 1, then you are obviously eligible to sit for either ACOS or ACS exam. Doesn't matter which one you take, just as long as you take one of them and pass because after all, you are claiming to be a neurosurgeon, being board certified will give you a legal foot to stand on in the court no matter if ACS or ACOS
3) What procedures at the hospital are you asking to be creditentialed to perform and can you provide documentation that you received adequate training to do said procedures either while in residency or through CME courses? It doesn't matter if you trained at an AOA or ACGME program, if you can show documentation that you did 500 laminectomies during your residency training, then the hospital will creditential you to do these procedures. The best example I can think of this is say, a general surgeon doesn't need to go do a vascular surgery fellowship if he/she want to do CEA's at a hospital if he/she could provide adequate documentation to the hospital's creditialing committee that performed X number of these while in training at a gen surg program.
So, really, here is what it all boils down to. Number 3 above is the most important thing for you to consider if you seriously apply to an AOA institution for NS residency (and ACGME for that matter) The fact that you'd have DO FACOS at the end of your title is not important, what is important is that you get licensed and train at a program that offers you adequate training to do all of the procedures you'd like to do as an attending. Look at quality of the program, volume of surgeries performed at the institution, how much hands on experience you will get, etc.
For example, if you train at a program that does mostly laminectomies and craniotomies, then guess what, that is all you will do as an attending. Does the program offer opportunity to be trained in areas such as skull base surgery, minimally invasive surgery, endovascular/neurovascular procedures, cool stuff like parkinson and epilepsy surgeries, pediatric neurosurgery, neuro ICU/trauma, etc.
And I suppose my last writing will be a warning. If you want to train at an AOA NS program, go there because you like the institution and think they have fine training. NEVER compete for an AOA residency in any specialty because you think it will be less competitive than an ACGME program to actually get a spot. I would highly discourage anybody from thinking this. AOA residencies in NS, ortho, derm, etc are every bit as difficult to obtain as an ACGME spot.
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Thanks for the good information regarding osteopathic neurosurgery residency. Just wanted to correct one thing. Allopathic board cerfication is through the American Board of Neurologic Surgeons (ABNS) not the American College of Surgery (ACS).
I got a question.
About research publications. What shd be the emphasis??? Benchwork or Clinical trials??? Shd the research really be Neuro or surgery related???
In what order are publications considered....case reports, review of medical literature, original idea research etc.
thanks
About research publications. What shd be the emphasis??? Benchwork or Clinical trials??? Shd the research really be Neuro or surgery related???
In what order are publications considered....case reports, review of medical literature, original idea research etc.
thanks
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Ideally the research will be neurosurgery/neuroscience related. Both basic science and clinical trials are valued...more so than case reports and literature reviews.
