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Does anyone know this information about utsw IM residency?
-national rank
-research possibilities
-how happy residents are
-national rank
-research possibilities
-how happy residents are
question about utsw internal medicine
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Very well respected academic program, known for rigorous clinical training. Generally agreed that it is a top tier program - specific ranking is debatable (you can see our ranking thread).
Lots of research if you are interested.
The gossip has SWern as being "malignant" depending on who you talk to. The "M word" is often used erroneously in place of, "really, really, really busy" working in the county hospital, IMHO. I don't think any SWern residents post here, so you'll have to feel them out if you get an interview. Bottom line - it's a very busy residency, if you're not the type that can hang, then you might find it "malignant".
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I have friends at the program and they would echo what was said above. They love the program, but they went in knowing/wanting rigorous training...
jdh71, what programs would you recommend for those of us interested in a heavily academic program, research opportunities, strong teaching but NOT such a heavy load? where can we research/look into this?
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I liked UTSW during my interview. It's a matter of preference. Huge program, very busy, large Hispanic population. It seemed to me the residents were happy, probably because they are the type of people that wanted to train in that environment. If you aren't sure this is the type of program you are looking for, there is likely a high potential for being miserable.
The fact it is located centrally means it gets recognition from both east and west coasts, therefore there is less geographic limitation with fellowship. Although there is plenty of research opportunity, the workload might limit time to commit to this. The new ACGME rules could make this moot point though.
The fact it is located centrally means it gets recognition from both east and west coasts, therefore there is less geographic limitation with fellowship. Although there is plenty of research opportunity, the workload might limit time to commit to this. The new ACGME rules could make this moot point though.
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I'm a current intern at UTSW so I can answer some questions about the program from what I've experienced so far. Its definitely a top notch program that prides itself on giving you outstanding clinical training and definitely won't close any doors for fellowship i know one of our chiefs is going to duke for cards and the research opportunities are endless since we have 3 major teaching hospitals (VA/university hospital/parkland).... the cases that you get at parkland which is the main teaching hospital are ridiculous in terms of sickness and pathology (for instance, i've seen malaria, mucormycosis, secondary syphilis, polyglandular endocrinopathy, pemphigus vulgaris and that was like the first week of wards). the faculty are freaking smart and alot are from the top programs around like the president of UTSW is a GI doc from MGH who I happened to notice staffed a patient of mine today
if you have specific questions, please IM me
if you have specific questions, please IM me
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If you want to work your ass off with nationally renowned faculty and have essentially any future door open to you (fellowship-wise), it's hard to beat a place like UTSW.
It has a stellar reputation, massive amounts of basic science and clinical research and amazing pathology. I don't think the educational opportunities available there can be beaten by any other program (equaled sure, but not beaten).
The downsides are that Parkland (granted, only 1 of 3 hospitals IM rotates through) is a quintessential county hospital (like Bellevue and Kings County in NYC, Boston Medical Center, Cook County and SFGH). You'll be expected to do massive amounts of work with minimal resources (but you'll learn a ton and be great clinician if you can hack it). Some people love that, some hate it. I know a fair number of insanely smart people who are UTSW grads and none of them even applied there for residency.
Also...it's in Dallas.
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Hatin' on Dallas?
I don't think it's so bad there.
Well, to be fair to Dallas, it is in Texas, so it doesn't really have a fighting chance.
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I agree w/ everything above.
I have friends that are residents there. Some love it b/c they are getting great fellowships and clinical training. Some hate it b/c of the poor infrastructure and the workload.
Just know what you are getting yourself into.
It is very strong in cards and pulm/cc from what I remember, but I'm pretty sure their fellowship matches are strong across the board.
I have friends that are residents there. Some love it b/c they are getting great fellowships and clinical training. Some hate it b/c of the poor infrastructure and the workload.
Just know what you are getting yourself into.
It is very strong in cards and pulm/cc from what I remember, but I'm pretty sure their fellowship matches are strong across the board.
Have first-hand info about UTSW. It's a great program that offers excellent clinical training and top-notch research opportunities (if you have the time). Some hate it and some love it. I know quite a few of the fellows in various IM fields. A few fellows (who also did their residency there) highly suggested going elsewhere and a few wouldn't have traded their experience at UTSW for anything. Only thing is that the fellowship match (for cards) isn't terrific. More than a few people went unmatched last year (and for the past few years). That concerned me.
UTSW fellowship match 2010
Allergy and Immunology
UT Southwestern
Cardiology
Case Western, Ohio (2)
Duke (2)
Health Science University
Mt. Sinai
Medical University SC
MidAmerican Heart Institute, Kansas City
UC-Irvine
University of Florida, Jacksonville
University of Louisville KY
UT-Southwestern (3)
Endocrinology
UT Southwestern (2)
Gastroenterology
Indiana University
Jefferson University
Oklahoma University
University of Minnesota
Hematology/Oncology
Brown University
Johns Hopkins
MD Anderson
USC
UT-Southwestern (2)
Infectious Disease
UT Southwestern (2)
Nephrology
UCSF
UT-Southwestern
Pulmonology
Johns Hopkins
University of Washington - Seattle
UT-Southwestern (2)
Washington University - St. Louis
Matches for 2004 to 2008:
http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept26481/files/90666.html
1 of 17 who applied went unmatched last year is what I've heard.
-You'll work hard at this program. This a program that abides by the 80 hr work week, but feels that it limits training.
-You'll be able to go to a top notch fellowship in any subspecialty coming from the program. Where you go will largely be based on how good you are.
-There is enough research. More than you will have time for.
Your happiness is more or less your own business. No one will hold your hand.
Its rank is debatable. Its a very solid program as mentioned. The training and experience is as good as you will get anywhere.
It does not have the same reputation as UCSF, Hopkins, Duke, or the Harvard affiliated programs etc. Past that it is comparable to other programs and a matter of taste/location. Would place it in the range of top 20 to top 15.
UTSW doesn't seem to have many graduates go into GI. Does anyone have any insight into whether this is reflective of their GI program? Do not many students interested in GI go to UTSW or do they not match well into it?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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I heard they really get their balls busted there...
the match list looks pretty good, but you have to ask yourself if it's good enough to get your a-- kicked like that for 3 years.
It depends on what you want to do. Unfortunately those programs like that in the South or Midwest don't get as much respect on the coasts, so you don't really see a lot of people matching into "name" fellowship programs on the coasts or Chicago, etc. from places like Vanderbilt, UAB, Southwestern. However, if you ask attendings from those "name" programs, they do respect the clinical training at UTSW.
You may want to explore whether residents there actually have time to do research...just because there is a lot of research there, doesn't mean that house staff have time to do research. If they don't have much time for that, then it could impact fellowship placements. Unfortunately, although fellowship PD's give lip service to caring about "strong clinical training" I've been in the rank list meetings and the main discussion is about what research the candidates have done. I don't really agree with it, but it is what it is.
the match list looks pretty good, but you have to ask yourself if it's good enough to get your a-- kicked like that for 3 years.
It depends on what you want to do. Unfortunately those programs like that in the South or Midwest don't get as much respect on the coasts, so you don't really see a lot of people matching into "name" fellowship programs on the coasts or Chicago, etc. from places like Vanderbilt, UAB, Southwestern. However, if you ask attendings from those "name" programs, they do respect the clinical training at UTSW.
You may want to explore whether residents there actually have time to do research...just because there is a lot of research there, doesn't mean that house staff have time to do research. If they don't have much time for that, then it could impact fellowship placements. Unfortunately, although fellowship PD's give lip service to caring about "strong clinical training" I've been in the rank list meetings and the main discussion is about what research the candidates have done. I don't really agree with it, but it is what it is.
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Few of us post on SDN because we're all busy at the hospital or out having a good time on the town. heh.
I'm a UTSW IM Grad. I moved off the cards bandwagon and am now GI fellowship track--applied, interviewed, accepted. Was looking for an answer to something else on SDN but found this and so I'll also share some "inside" knowledge.
@bobito is right. I would add that during the interview trail any reputation I had as a UTSW resident was because we earned it the hard way--by working. Always turned out in my favor. I stayed at UTSW for residency because I personally wanted the critical care experience (stuff pulm fellows do at other programs), even if it didn't have a bearing on my future career.
@texasguy: that's one way of looking at it. Although, I must say in my case coming from UTSW med school through UTSW residency it was more that cardiology and pulmonary are such big influences that GI gets overshadowed. It's ironic, because the prior IM chairman and the interim chair were both GI faculty. Moreover, there's a pedigree here but it's largely before my time: Dr. Fortran (now at BUMC), Dr. Podolsky (in academic leadership, not in IM) for example.
Why the variety of "caliber" of the matched GI programs? Some have personal reasons to go somewhere (and get what they want). Others have a strong resume and shoot for the stars. The bottom line: all 4 GI applicants this past year matched. Could there have been more? yes. Will there be more next year? Most likely yes, because momentum is building.
For the most part, those in UTSW who apply GI knew they were going to do it starting residency and all apply early (the 3rd years who matched this past year were notable exceptions). To my knowledge, this past year others interested in GI were either drawn back to cards/critical care, are not sure about career plans (and have the credentials to get in), or are waiting until next year to apply to beef up resumes. To my knowledge *no one* was discouraged away from GI because of any perceived difficulty getting in. That may change if there is a glut of applicants at UTSW as there was in Michigan (12-14 of them I think?). I don't know how Michigan fared.
@sustentaculum: UTSW residents are for the most part happy. Over time we either become jovial or worn out-- it's hard to have in-betweens working an """80-hour week""".
Research: UTSW is a powerhouse for research, especially basic science, but to me it felt like a different world separate from training, even in med school. It is hard to get exposure to much of it if you don't know about it or else what you want to do. GI is the same way. Cards especially. Furthermore, most faculty who can put in a good word for you are ambitious, may be hard to impress, and have their hands full, so you have to make time and a name for yourself.
The reward, however, is very real for your effort.
Oh, and Dallas=delicious.
I'm a UTSW IM Grad. I moved off the cards bandwagon and am now GI fellowship track--applied, interviewed, accepted. Was looking for an answer to something else on SDN but found this and so I'll also share some "inside" knowledge.
@bobito is right. I would add that during the interview trail any reputation I had as a UTSW resident was because we earned it the hard way--by working. Always turned out in my favor. I stayed at UTSW for residency because I personally wanted the critical care experience (stuff pulm fellows do at other programs), even if it didn't have a bearing on my future career.
@texasguy: that's one way of looking at it. Although, I must say in my case coming from UTSW med school through UTSW residency it was more that cardiology and pulmonary are such big influences that GI gets overshadowed. It's ironic, because the prior IM chairman and the interim chair were both GI faculty. Moreover, there's a pedigree here but it's largely before my time: Dr. Fortran (now at BUMC), Dr. Podolsky (in academic leadership, not in IM) for example.
Why the variety of "caliber" of the matched GI programs? Some have personal reasons to go somewhere (and get what they want). Others have a strong resume and shoot for the stars. The bottom line: all 4 GI applicants this past year matched. Could there have been more? yes. Will there be more next year? Most likely yes, because momentum is building.
For the most part, those in UTSW who apply GI knew they were going to do it starting residency and all apply early (the 3rd years who matched this past year were notable exceptions). To my knowledge, this past year others interested in GI were either drawn back to cards/critical care, are not sure about career plans (and have the credentials to get in), or are waiting until next year to apply to beef up resumes. To my knowledge *no one* was discouraged away from GI because of any perceived difficulty getting in. That may change if there is a glut of applicants at UTSW as there was in Michigan (12-14 of them I think?). I don't know how Michigan fared.
@sustentaculum: UTSW residents are for the most part happy. Over time we either become jovial or worn out-- it's hard to have in-betweens working an """80-hour week""".
Research: UTSW is a powerhouse for research, especially basic science, but to me it felt like a different world separate from training, even in med school. It is hard to get exposure to much of it if you don't know about it or else what you want to do. GI is the same way. Cards especially. Furthermore, most faculty who can put in a good word for you are ambitious, may be hard to impress, and have their hands full, so you have to make time and a name for yourself.
The reward, however, is very real for your effort.
Oh, and Dallas=delicious.
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'"Unfortunately those programs like that in the South or Midwest don't get as much respect on the coasts, so you don't really see a lot of people matching into "name" fellowship programs on the coasts or Chicago, etc. from places like Vanderbilt, UAB, Southwestern. "
While statistically this is probably true, the reasons are likely more complex than a "lack of respect". Generally, somebody who chooses to do residency in Nashville, Birmingham, or Dallas probably is not as interested in moving to Boston, Chicago, or California for fellowship. Usually people are more settled in life by fellowship time, and this is a big reason why there is a regional bias.
While statistically this is probably true, the reasons are likely more complex than a "lack of respect". Generally, somebody who chooses to do residency in Nashville, Birmingham, or Dallas probably is not as interested in moving to Boston, Chicago, or California for fellowship. Usually people are more settled in life by fellowship time, and this is a big reason why there is a regional bias.
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actually, Dr. Podolsky does staff GI because I've seen him rounding before which was really surprising to me
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-It seems like there are some Residents who have had a stormy relationship with the Program Director.. can someone comment on this?
- Can anyone compare this program to Emory?
- Increased workload = better doctor? Can someone clarify this?
- Strong program - it doesn't seem like they attract people other than their own UTSW students and some IMG's.
Discuss
- Can anyone compare this program to Emory?
- Increased workload = better doctor? Can someone clarify this?
- Strong program - it doesn't seem like they attract people other than their own UTSW students and some IMG's.
Discuss
[youtube]wyZ8Qqa-q5M[/youtube]
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Dude, you're always going to have someone complaining. Whatever. Check out the Vandy thread for an instance of one person talking trash and a bunch of others saying the opposite.
Increased workload can make a better physician if that your style of learning. Some people excel in an environment like that. Some people want a more laid back style, get flustered with having to juggle so many things, like more time to read. You'll have to strike your balance, but I'd say on a whole, you DO need a good number of cases in order to get good. This only makes sense.
UTSW is one of those places where some of the same type of folks who interview at the big names places also interview there, but given the choice between east vs west vs midwest . . . these candidates choose east or west - nothing personal, just don't like the midwest as much. That's why people form the midwest stay in the midwest, we don't mind it. And just about every program outside of the elite programs interviews some IMGs - you've got spots to fill with bodies man.
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I was very, very underwhelmed by emory last year. I think a lot of people were last year and if I recall correctly, Emory went unfilled. UTSW seemed similar to hopkins and MGH in terms of how rigorous the training was it just didn't have the same kind of name recognition. I agree with what everyone else has said about it being a strong program.
increased workload?- I have gone back and forth about this this year but I have come to the conclusion that the best way to know something is to have seen it and to have done it. So as an intern, the increased workload makes you mature faster. In terms of knowing obscure facts, it probably works against you though.
Not attracting anything but IMGs and their own? - I highly disagree. Basically everyone during my interview day was interviewed at excellent programs. Many went to places like MGH, hopkins, B&W, UCSF and almost all were interviewed at the more local programs like Duke, UAB, vandy.
Even the elite programs interview FMGs. Hell, JHH has an FMG in their intern class.
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I'm looking at the current UTSW intern class and 24 out of 50 categorical interns are from Texas schools (48%). 5 of 50 are FMGs (10%). The rest are from a variety of med schools that vary from quite respectable to decent.
Their fellowship match list is pretty impressive nonetheless and I have no doubt that the graduates of the program aren't scared of anything.
Has anyone who has interviewed at UTSW recently been told how they will be structuring intern schedules to accommodate the new work hour (i.e., 16+4) changes? They didn't have any specifics when I interviewed very early in the interview season.
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No program that is going from 30 hour call to 16 hour shift work knows what the hell they are going to do. The ACGME is basically telling them that their way of doing things is wrong. I find that funny since all of the elite programs including MGH, Hopkins, columbia, UCSF just to name a few, do the 30 hour call.
So to answer your question, I don't think any program that wasn't already a nightfloat system knows exactly what they are going to do.
So to answer your question, I don't think any program that wasn't already a nightfloat system knows exactly what they are going to do.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say no one has any idea what's going to happen, because I actually have heard very detailed plans from several of the schools which I've interviewed at. That's not to say that these plans will not be in a state of flux for the first several months after they're implemented, because they obviously will be, but I find it reassuring that some PDs were thinking ahead a little bit (from what I've heard these changes were in the pipeline for quite some time).
That being said, as of December when I interviewed, UTSW still didn't have a set plan for what they will do come July.
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The impression I got was that UTSW is strongly leaning toward keeping q5 admitting (on Parkland wards) with one "early" intern and one "late" intern on call days. Of course that won't work at the VA where there are restern teams... (though I'd assume they'll just have the intern come in late).
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I would (and did go that far). It basically is sabotaging how all the major programs, including UTSW, train the next generation of physicians. The changes were sprung on programs very quickly. They gave 6 months of comments, didn't take any of the comments to heart and are now forcing programs to go to shift work which puts patients at risk since there are twice as many handoffs now.
I hate to go on a rant here but how can one group force another to change how they train people? If applicants don't want a 30 hour call schedule, don't go to a program that has one. It completely screws not only the new interns but also people already in those programs. Don't be surprised when an extra year is tacked onto internal medicine training. I personally would rather 3 very tough years than 4 tough years. Screw that.
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For better or worse this decision was largely driven by public opinion. And it's very likely that if changes were not made by acgme, then it would have been made by national legislation - talk about a *real* nightmare. It is frustrating because acgme wants BOTH fewer intern hours and fewer handoffs at the same time. Any program attempting to remedy with more shift work for interns will likely find themselves slapped by acgme at their next site visit. Essentially what we are doing is shifting the burden of longer hours and autonomy to the second year as opposed to the first. The sky will not fall and everyone will adapt. There will be no need to add a year unless they further restrict total work hours.
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I think you and I both know that is coming.
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I don't see why it would be necessary at this point. Most programs are simply frontloaded, having a nicer schedule in third year. We'll simply be shifting the work burden to pgy2 and pgy3, with the first year being the easier year.
Now if they seriously shorten week long work hours then I don't see how they can get away without an extra year.
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hey i agree that the work hour rules may not be the greatest thing, all i'm saying is that i've interviewed at 10 or so places so far, and i have heard detailed plans that are already in place from some of the PDs that i've had the chance to talk to. now it's possible that they were completely lying about every aspect of what they said, but maybe some of these guys actually have a handle on it besides, there's really only a couple of ways a program can realistically crack this nut; after a certain point, it's just about making a choice and busting through the institutional inertia, i suppose.
besides, there's really only a couple of ways a program can realistically crack this nut; after a certain point, it's just about making a choice and busting through the institutional inertia, i suppose.
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hey i agree that the work hour rules may not be the greatest thing, all i'm saying is that i've interviewed at 10 or so places so far, and i have heard detailed plans that are already in place from some of the PDs that i've had the chance to talk to. now it's possible that they were completely lying about every aspect of what they said, but maybe some of these guys actually have a handle on it
I think there has been quite a bit of discussion and ideas about what to do. But I think that the real issue is institutional inertia. They just have not finalized these ideas formally, and won't talk about it till that happens.
I think you have to understand the philosophy of the place is that the best way to train is to see patients, take responsibility, and not hand things off to others. i.e Autonomy and hard work.
Making UTSW change that is like making a Hindu kill the sacred cow. Its just sad, slightly disturbing, and doesn't work out well for anyone especially the cow.
Which is to say everyone thinks these changes suck. And the people getting hurt are IM residents everywhere and possibly the patients although that's clearly debatable.
At least we aren't surgeons though, those guys are up a creek.
I would like to update this for 2022. And give a warning based on my experience in this program. If you are a female interested in GI, absolutely do NOT come to this program. Multiple highly competitive female applicants for GI fellowship from this program have gone unmatched for the past several years. I think this is mainly due to the complete lack of mentorship/championing for female applicants as well as the extreme misogyny of the UTSW GI fellowship program.
Sorry to hear this. I ran across this in a bout of late night nostalgia.
I was there for a long time and know some of the current GI faculty.
Some of the women I trained with are current GI faculty and were internally advocated for as they progressed through training due to their personal and professional qualities. Ie I witnessed active recruitment of female candidates.
I do not know their personal experience with misogyny.
Misogyny in medicine is real. Misogyny in medicine is everywhere. Misogyny in medicine is wrong.
Nonetheless I have personally witnessed the current GI leadership advocating for female candidates in the recent past.
I can’t speak to anything going on currently. But these are the same people so there may be some additional complexity here.
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Has anyone heard if the culture at UTSW IM has changed over the last ~decade? Is it still considered a malignant/intense program? Or have work hour restrictions/increased emphasis on resident wellbeing made it more comparable to other academic programs?
