PT Stigma and Reputation

[PREMEDWOAHS]

I had a conversation with a PA in a hospital I transport to with my ambulance bureau. While conversing about Physical Therapists, he said the career lacks any dignity amongst health care professionals. He says they are looked upon as a lesser kind, and likened them to being a slightly more intelligent personal trainer. He made a remark that PT is going to be taken over by PM&R eventually.

Would you consider this an isolated opinion or is this how PT is perceived in the medical community.

When I hold a future career as a DPT, I want to know that I am seen as an equal in the medical career, obviously differing in speciality but on a level playing field of patient care.

Opinions? Comments & Remarks?


BTW - I, in NO way support the PA's comments. I simply am using them to hear outside opinions. Dont shoot the messenger

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[truthseeker]

Consider the source. I think that it is an isolated opinion from someone who has "assistant" in their title. They are threatened by anyone who has autonomy where they don't. The PA is wrong that PM&R will take over PT. I live in a town of 5500, there is no way a PM&R doc is moving here, they would starve.

PT will be autonomous in the near future. We will always be part of the team and small minded people like the PA you spoke to will always be small minded. Their comments smack of bitterness to me.

I feel very well respected in my environment by staff and patients alike.

 

[callmecrazy]

I am still pre-DPT school, but I've been working side-by-side with MDs for the last few years. I've talked to all of them about my career plans, and each one of them holds a great deal of respect for PTs. It's worth noting that none of them really knew what kind of education was involved to become a PT or what they do. They all knew, however, that PTs had helped their patients (cardiology) tremendously. So while it seems that a lot of the world is "in the dark" about what PTs do, they do respect the career and consider an important part of patient care.

It's not terribly surprising that the negative comment you heard came from a PA though. I have plenty of respect for PAs, but I have heard many of them express frustration over the amount of respect that they receive. The "assistant" part of their title carries a stigma with it in the eyes of many people. This, of course, is not deserved, but it's something that they deal with. So, there is a good chance this PA was bitter about the perceptions of his own career, and you just happened to get the brunt of it.

 

[Elbrus]

Clearly this was someone with a chip on their shoulder. That's unfortunate, but certainly not my experience working with PA's or the like.

 

[Akiramay]

I can see why the PA thought PT's are just more intelligent personal trainers. Many people really don't know what PT's do and how much they have to learn. It sounded like a good opportunity to educate that person about how respected and equal PT's are to anyone else in the medical field.

 

[mcc0037]

What a doosh. That PA has NO idea how important a PT is in the medical setting and probably never has been involved in the rehabilitation process to respect the field enough. He is obviously ignorant, negative, and possibily a little bitter. PTs are highly respected by others in the field and I'm sure he wouldn't be able to hold one of the PT's jockstrap in a daily routine of an inpatient or outpatient round. You should of told him that he was going to be replaced for such stupid comments. I hope you smacked some knowledge into this lesser-evolved Neanderthal.

 

[PTbecomingDDS]

Your PA friend definitely appears bitter. Nothing against PA's, but my wife (MD) states she would never work with one as she feels most are incompetent in her specialty (neurology) and make too many mistakes; therefore, not worth the liability. This is her opinion not mine. So, as you can see, some MD's do not look highly upon PA's other than as gophers tending to the work a MD would not prefer to do. This PA is probably resentful with the evolving degree/title PT's are graduating with these days in attempt to make himself/herself feel important. Why become a PA? Short duration for an education but you are still someone's ASSISTANT. I am sure that many of you on this forum would rather be PT's than PTA's. Plus, PM&R will not replace PT's...maybe the reverse as I do not see PM&R's rendering treatments.

 

[PREMEDWOAHS]

Why become a PA? Short duration for an education but you are still someone's ASSISTANT.

This is EXACTLY why I do not want to become a PA.

 

[PREMEDWOAHS]

So I guess everyone is in agreement that most MD practitioners feel that PT and the providers are a mandatory stop on the road to recovery. I want to be sure that I am getting involved in a career that isn't considered "unnecessary" and not 100% useful. This PA really messed with my head

 

[Coach Hoski]

So I guess everyone is in agreement that most MD practitioners feel that PT and the providers are a mandatory stop on the road to recovery. I want to be sure that I am getting involved in a career that isn't considered "unnecessary" and not 100% useful. This PA really messed with my head

That guy is an idiot who sounds like he has some confidence/esteem problems. PT is very well respected, nearly autonomous, and growing in use and applications. It's rewarding, it helps people directly, it is FUN, it pays well, and if you like it, then that's all that should matter. Don't get caught up in someone else's perspective, you could go crazy that way. There is always someone out there who doesn't like what you want to do, and that's their problem.

 

[xMerryx]

I din't know about this perspective towards PT, but hey, people usually have wrong ideas about something specially when they do not know about it. I do not care at all if some ohysicians or PAs think that PTs are glorified trainers, that only shows they do not have idea of the amount of eduaction and work it requires.

 

[jesspt]

I guess that I think that some MDs, PAs and Nurse Practitioners likely do think of PT in the same context as the PA who was mentioned in the initial posting of this thread. I don't think I would say they are the majority, but it seems to me that I encounter this attitude more than I thought I would when I was getting into this profession.

Although PT is generally accepted as a viable and beneficial profession by many within medicine, there certainly are some who think we are at best a treatment of last resort for those patients who don't want surgery, and at worst think we are uneccesary.

Certainly many in the public think of us as glorified personal trainers, or
worse, stretching partners.

One of the challenges for our profession is changing these misconceptions that exist both within and outside of the medical field. The readers of this forum are going to have some battles to fight, should they choose to take up the mantle.

 

[DD214_DOC]

The first encounter I had with a DPT was one who walked around the hospital in scrubs and a long white-coat with only, "Dr. Soandso" on the monogram, not "Soandso, DPT". At that moment, my opinion of them was permanent etched.

Not to mention, I didn't understand why someone needed a "doctorate" to do what they do. Walking old people up and down the hall? Mmk. I would be less harsh if it wasn't obvious she was pretending to be a real doctor.

God, I can't wait until intern year when I'm not being evaluated and can tell these types o fpeople what I'm REALLY thinking. I respect other allied health people who don't pretend to be something they're not. It takes all the strength I have to not rip apart someone who does.

 

[PTapp]

The first encounter I had with a DPT was one who walked around the hospital in scrubs and a long white-coat with only, "Dr. Soandso" on the monogram, not "Soandso, DPT". At that moment, my opinion of them was permanent etched.

Not to mention, I didn't understand why someone needed a "doctorate" to do what they do. Walking old people up and down the hall? Mmk. I would be less harsh if it wasn't obvious she was pretending to be a real doctor.

God, I can't wait until intern year when I'm not being evaluated and can tell these types o fpeople what I'm REALLY thinking. I respect other allied health people who don't pretend to be something they're not. It takes all the strength I have to not rip apart someone who does.

Walking old people up and down the hall? That's all we do? Jeez... I also have no respect for people like you. You obviously have no idea about this profession and think that you can run over anyone that comes on your way with your MD degree. What that PT did, imo, wasn't appropriate, I agree, but your thinking also makes me want to "rip apart someone" who thinks he/she is something that s/he is not!!! A team player!!!

 

[bipennate]

The first encounter I had with a DPT was one who walked around the hospital in scrubs and a long white-coat with only, "Dr. Soandso" on the monogram, not "Soandso, DPT". At that moment, my opinion of them was permanent etched.

What is your opinion of your professors in your undergraduate school, who take fewer credits than do PTs in their graduate programs but are still awarded the title of "Doctor?" What of Dentists, who take about 10 more graduate credits?

Not to mention, I didn't understand why someone needed a "doctorate" to do what they do. Walking old people up and down the hall? Mmk. I would be less harsh if it wasn't obvious she was pretending to be a real doctor.

If you don't understand why someone needs a doctorate, then why are you earning yours? Also, is this the only thing that PTs do: walk patients up and down the hallway in hospitals? When I took my rotation in the hospital, the only thing that I saw the physicians doing was signing the nurse's work and spending 2 minutes with a patient to say "hi, how are we feeling today?" and then leave the room. Should I conclude that this is the only thing that physicians do? By your line of observational reasoning, should I then question why a physician would need a doctorate as well?

God, I can't wait until intern year when I'm not being evaluated and can tell these types o fpeople what I'm REALLY thinking. I respect other allied health people who don't pretend to be something they're not. It takes all the strength I have to not rip apart someone who does.

Are physicians the owners of a degree, in your opinion?

It would appear by evidence of your poorly informed opinion that you feel that you are an enlightened and superior student, but you apparently have a great deal to learn. Best of luck in your education...hopefully, you will actually become educated one day.

 

[xMerryx]

I TOTALLY AGREE with bipennate! if we use the same logic, we could say pjysicians don't do anything and nurses or PAs do it all! I am not going to defend the DPT because I do not care what others think I just think it is a shame that some people think this way. I have pre-med friends and they are not like this guy at all (or girl?) Students like him/her appear to be the kind of people that want to earn a MD just because is the most respectable degree out there.

 

[bipennate]

students like him/her appear to be the kind of people that want to earn a md just because they believe that it is the most respectable degree out there.

fyp

 

[pttrac]

The first encounter I had with a DPT was one who walked around the hospital in scrubs and a long white-coat with only, "Dr. Soandso" on the monogram, not "Soandso, DPT". At that moment, my opinion of them was permanent etched.

Not to mention, I didn't understand why someone needed a "doctorate" to do what they do. Walking old people up and down the hall? Mmk. I would be less harsh if it wasn't obvious she was pretending to be a real doctor.

God, I can't wait until intern year when I'm not being evaluated and can tell these types o fpeople what I'm REALLY thinking. I respect other allied health people who don't pretend to be something they're not. It takes all the strength I have to not rip apart someone who does.

With such a high post count on these forums, I would expect your opinion to be much more informed. I hope one day that your perception on PT changes and that you can take the time to step off your high horse and learn more about what we really do.

I don't want to make assumptions, but with your mentality I presume that not many health care workers that you encounter and work with, respect you.

 

[Torques]

The first encounter I had with a DPT was one who walked around the hospital in scrubs and a long white-coat with only, "Dr. Soandso" on the monogram, not "Soandso, DPT". At that moment, my opinion of them was permanent etched.

Not to mention, I didn't understand why someone needed a "doctorate" to do what they do. Walking old people up and down the hall? Mmk. I would be less harsh if it wasn't obvious she was pretending to be a real doctor.

God, I can't wait until intern year when I'm not being evaluated and can tell these types o fpeople what I'm REALLY thinking. I respect other allied health people who don't pretend to be something they're not. It takes all the strength I have to not rip apart someone who does.

All I can say about your remark is that YOU ARE VERY IGNORANT!!! Let me educate you. Doctor of Physical Therapy are "real" doctor just like any of other clinical doctorate and yes MD is a clinical doctorate-don't assume that this profession is above the other doctoral degree. Your comment speaks volume of your character.

I am not sure how truthful you are about your first statement. I dont believe that the therapist had her coat just stating Dr so and so without a PT title beside it.

Using a "Dr" title is okay as long as you identify your profession beside your name. E.g. Dr. Julius Quezon DPT or Julius Quezon, Doctor of Physical Therapy.

I hope you don't make it to med school. You'll be a disgrace to the profession. And go ahead, speak your mind (if ever you make it) and show the people how ignorant you are.

Dr. Julius Quezon, PT DPT MTC CPed

 

[Torques]

Your PA friend definitely appears bitter. Nothing against PA's, but my wife (MD) states she would never work with one as she feels most are incompetent in her specialty (neurology) and make too many mistakes; therefore, not worth the liability. This is her opinion not mine. So, as you can see, some MD's do not look highly upon PA's other than as gophers tending to the work a MD would not prefer to do. This PA is probably resentful with the evolving degree/title PT's are graduating with these days in attempt to make himself/herself feel important. Why become a PA? Short duration for an education but you are still someone's ASSISTANT. I am sure that many of you on this forum would rather be PT's than PTA's. Plus, PM&R will not replace PT's...maybe the reverse as I do not see PM&R's rendering treatments.

Hopefully you don't really mean it as it sounds. Feeling important has no bearing in the evolution of PT. And please kindly stop the "CASTE" system analogy with different professions. This is really feeding on perceptions that is not healthy for everyone. PA/PT/MD/PTA have their place in the system. Quit thinking one is better than other. MD's or DDS cannot do what a PT does and vice versa. Also respect assistants. Just put them in place if their actions are inappropriate just like the case above. It's sad that your wife won't work with a PA. I guess there's nothing wrong with that if she doesn't find the need but being paranoid about their competence I feel in not a valid excuse. There are as many incompetent doctors in the field.Maybe she just needs to talk to the specific PA's in her area to learn more about their competence.

 

[callmecrazy]

Not to mention, I didn't understand why someone needed a "doctorate" to do what they do. Walking old people up and down the hall?

If you "didn't understand" it is only because you haven't taken the time as a future-MD to become informed on the various branches of the medical world. How will you, as an MD, refer your patients for any sort of rehab or specialty care if you haven't even taken the time to familiarize yourself with what they do? It's rather worrisome that anyone beyond the first steps of medical school is still so uneducated. I know there are plenty of MDs that fall into this category, but I've never seen one so blinded that they flaunt it.

God, I can't wait until intern year when I'm not being evaluated and can tell these types o fpeople what I'm REALLY thinking. I respect other allied health people who don't pretend to be something they're not. It takes all the strength I have to not rip apart someone who does.

Ok, so laughed a little when I read this; this paragraph oozes with hypocrisy. Hopefully you will be working with an older and wiser physician that will put you right back in your place.

 

[xMerryx]

hehe...yes, that's what I meant

 

[Torques]

Students like him/her appear to be the kind of people that want to earn a MD just because is the most respectable degree out there.

Most respectable? I question that. More intensive in education/training, maybe.

 

[fahimaz7]

Tell the PA that he's below the NP and that he's not a doctor.

DPT's can set up and practice in complete autonomy...something that MD/DO's, NP's, and DPT's share....and PA's can't do.

DPT's are also some of the happiest people in the "professional" work force.

My wife is a soon-to-be DPT.. She's not only incredibly intelligent...She is incredibly happy with her job!

 

[xMerryx]

Most respectable? I question that. More intensive in education/training, maybe.

as bipennate wrote (correcting me) they think is the most respectable (and in many societies it seems that way) and they feel superior because they are in med school or even in pre-med. Of course, not every pre-med/ medicine student is that way, but there are cases like the one we saw...

 

[jesspt]

The first encounter I had with a DPT was one who walked around the hospital in scrubs and a long white-coat with only, "Dr. Soandso" on the monogram, not "Soandso, DPT". At that moment, my opinion of them was permanent etched.

Not to mention, I didn't understand why someone needed a "doctorate" to do what they do. Walking old people up and down the hall? Mmk. I would be less harsh if it wasn't obvious she was pretending to be a real doctor.

God, I can't wait until intern year when I'm not being evaluated and can tell these types o fpeople what I'm REALLY thinking. I respect other allied health people who don't pretend to be something they're not. It takes all the strength I have to not rip apart someone who does.

How nice that a timely post illustrates my previous statements. I'm glad that hooahDoc obviously has a lot of strength. It doesn't sound like they're ripping my profession at all.

The post illustrates two of the leading issues facing our profession: the tendency of some physicians to think of us as "people walkers" or "glorified personal trainers", and the tendency of some within our profession to take the path of least resistance and provide unneccesary and non-skilled care.

Sure, the "doctor" title on the lab coat ruffled hooah's feathers, but what might the first impression have been had they next witnesed the PT perform a detailed cranial nerve scree rather than just walk a patient up and down the hall.

If we as a profession want more respect, we're going to have to go get it, rather than have it bestowed upon us just because our schools are producing graduates with DPT rather than MPT behind their names.

 

[Torques]

How nice that a timely post illustrates my previous statements. I'm glad that hooahDoc obviously has a lot of strength. It doesn't sound like they're ripping my profession at all.

The post illustrates two of the leading issues facing our profession: the tendency of some physicians to think of us as "people walkers" or "glorified personal trainers", and the tendency of some within our profession to take the path of least resistance and provide unneccesary and non-skilled care.

Sure, the "doctor" title on the lab coat ruffled hooah's feathers, but what might the first impression have been had they next witnesed the PT perform a detailed cranial nerve scree rather than just walk a patient up and down the hall.

If we as a profession want more respect, we're going to have to go get it, rather than have it bestowed upon us just because our schools are producing graduates with DPT rather than MPT behind their names.

I am appalled you are taking such remark lightly. This kind of mentality is what's dragging the profession down. Respect is not earned at a "professional" level. All professions deserve respect. Individuals on the other hand must earn it. Why am I even bothering answering this post.
Personally MD or not, I see myself with utmost pride and respect as well as respectful of others. I do not tolerate such blatant disrespect. That is the point of this discussion.

The issue you raise I don't feel are the real issues. There will be good and bad in any profession. The real issue is "bigotry and ignorance". And you are propagating it.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Please keep the discussion civil and avoid personal attacks. Posters from outside the PT community should avoid attacking the profession or its members in their home forum on SDN.

Please review: http://www.studentdoctor.net/sdn-forums-terms-of-service/

Specifically:

Harassment and Flaming
The Student Doctor Network members are not permitted to harass or “flame” other members. Please do not post or transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable material of any kind, including, but not limited to, any material which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, violate the rights of others, or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national or international law. Please note that this also includes the posting of taunts on a forum solely for the purpose of deriding that forum’s topic and/or members.

Keep it polite and professional, please.

 

[PREMEDWOAHS]

Please keep the discussion civil and avoid personal attacks. Posters from outside the PT community should avoid attacking the profession or its members in their home forum on SDN.

I specifically feel open to hearing comments criticizing the profession. Its interesting to her alternative view-points.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I specifically feel open to hearing comments criticizing the profession. Its interesting to her alternative v
view-points.

There is a difference between legitimate discussion of a profession (good and bad) and just insulting the profession outright. One is professional and respectful and the other is not. It is also different when the critical evaluation of the profession is done by those ACTIVELY engaged in the profession vs. those OUTSIDE the profession who really aren't in a position to evalute the pros and cons.

 

[Torques]

There is a difference between legitimate discussion of a profession (good and bad) and just insulting the profession outright. One is professional and respectful and the other is not. It is also different when the critical evaluation of the profession is done by those ACTIVELY engaged in the profession vs. those OUTSIDE the profession who really aren't in a position to evalute the pros and cons.

I agree. Discussion should remain professional. I don't mind criticism and discussion of "profession's issues". Jesspt brought up a negative issue pertaining to PT which is fine (I actually agree with some of his observations based on my experience) however, i took offense to the fact that he is taking the other poster's remark as non-offensive. Not sure if he really mean what he wrote considering he is a PT and the other guy is throwing insult at his profession.

 

[jesspt]

How nice that a timely post illustrates my previous statements. I'm glad that hooahDoc obviously has a lot of strength. It doesn't sound like they're ripping my profession at all.

That, my friends, was sarcasm. Apparently it doesn't translate that well in this forum.

I am appalled you are taking such remark lightly. This kind of mentality is what's dragging the profession down. Respect is not earned at a "professional" level. All professions deserve respect. Individuals on the other hand must earn it. Why am I even bothering answering this post.

I don't take the remark lightly. I just think that it is niave to assume that the problem regarding the perception of our profession is totally one sided. Certainly, physicians (and physicians-to-be such as hooahDoc) should have a much greater degree of professional decorum than was illustrated in the that previous post. But, one of the reasons that this misconception exists is because we have a portion of our profession who think that the hard work is over once they pass the NPTE, that they can rest on their DPT, and are content to just walk people up and down the hallway and give a few straight leg raises here and there. And, those within our profession have been reticent to call those poor therapists to the carpet. I think that is an error our profession can and should correct.

The issue you raise I don't feel are the real issues. There will be good and bad in any profession. The real issue is "bigotry and ignorance". And you are propagating it.

I disagree with you greatly on this. I think these are real issues and I've outlined why. You, of course, are entitled to your opinion, as are all of the readers of this forum. And, I'm unsure how I've propagated bigotry and ignorance. Is it ignorant to think that we have some accountability in regards to how our profession is viewed both by patients and other healthcare providers? I can't see how.

And finally, that medical student holds some foolish beleifs regarding our profession and is grossly unaware of the body of research that has been building within recent years regarding the efficacy of numerous physical therapy interventions. I'd be more than happy to discuss them with hooahDoc should she/he ever venture onto this forum again. And, I've a hunch that she/he wouldn't think we're a bunch of "patient walkers" when we were done.

 

[bipennate]

I don't take the remark lightly. I just think that it is niave to assume that the problem regarding the perception of our profession is totally one sided. Certainly, physicians (and physicians-to-be such as hooahDoc) should have a much greater degree of professional decorum than was illustrated in the that previous post. But, one of the reasons that this misconception exists is because we have a portion of our profession who think that the hard work is over once they pass the NPTE, that they can rest on their DPT, and are content to just walk people up and down the hallway and give a few straight leg raises here and there. And, those within our profession have been reticent to call those poor therapists to the carpet. I think that is an error our profession can and should correct.

Co-signed. I couldn't agree more

 

[PREMEDWOAHS]

You guys should be on the APTA board. haha

I am confident that over time, increasing the standards for the program will result in a higher quality student converting to a higher quality clinician. Although that is not always the case..it will definitely lead to a positive contrast.

 

[DD214_DOC]

How nice that a timely post illustrates my previous statements. I'm glad that hooahDoc obviously has a lot of strength. It doesn't sound like they're ripping my profession at all.

The post illustrates two of the leading issues facing our profession: the tendency of some physicians to think of us as "people walkers" or "glorified personal trainers", and the tendency of some within our profession to take the path of least resistance and provide unneccesary and non-skilled care.

Sure, the "doctor" title on the lab coat ruffled hooah's feathers, but what might the first impression have been had they next witnesed the PT perform a detailed cranial nerve scree rather than just walk a patient up and down the hall.

If we as a profession want more respect, we're going to have to go get it, rather than have it bestowed upon us just because our schools are producing graduates with DPT rather than MPT behind their names.

I'm glad someone got the point of what I was trying to say. Many people seemed to ignore the fact that this particular DPT was presenting herself to be a physician and not a DPT. What other reason would you have to get, "Dr. Soandso" on your lab coat (and why are they even wearing them? That's another issue) instead of, "Soandso, DPT" like every other professional who wears a coat?

My initial reaction was annoyance because of what she was obviously trying to do. My next reaction was, "Ok, so what does she do?". You know how the story ends.

As I stated in my previous post, if you want respect from me, don't present yourself to be something you're not.

The reason I even ended up in this forum was because I noticed there was one and remembered my experience and wanted to dig a bit deeper.

 

[PREMEDWOAHS]

I'm glad someone got the point of what I was trying to say. Many people seemed to ignore the fact that this particular DPT was presenting herself to be a physician and not a DPT. What other reason would you have to get, "Dr. Soandso" on your lab coat (and why are they even wearing them? That's another issue) instead of, "Soandso, DPT" like every other professional who wears a coat?

My initial reaction was annoyance because of what she was obviously trying to do. My next reaction was, "Ok, so what does she do?". You know how the story ends.

As I stated in my previous post, if you want respect from me, don't present yourself to be something you're not.

The reason I even ended up in this forum was because I noticed there was one and remembered my experience and wanted to dig a bit deeper.

Your argument is understandable given the circumstances. Although I think the manner in which you put it, was pretty unacceptable. Granted, anyone would feel the way you felt about any clinician regardless of their field if it was presented in the way it was. Don't let this experience further seclude your knowledge of the field. Use it as a way to look into the profession so that when put in a position to argue for its pro's and con's - you will be in well educated on the manner.


And further more, you ask - Why are they even wearing a lab coat?? Well why do you..scrubs do the same job. You obviously wear it for the prestige and stigma also, so why knock someone for possibly doing it the same way. White coat does not = Doctor of Medicine. Many caregivers in medicine use them, why knock PT for doing the same?

 

[Buckeye4life]

HooahDOc. . .I am surprised that you would call a DPT someone who is trying to be a "real doc" when you are a DO medical student who often have chips on their shoulders about not being perceived in the public eye as "real doctors." Now you and I both know, DO's learn the same crap as MDs, but when people say you only treat bones, that makes you kind of angry because you know the truth. Well PT is in the same boat and obviously does not like it when people make snap judgements about your entire professional identity based on misconceptions or limited interaction.

 

[jesspt]

I'm glad someone got the point of what I was trying to say. Many people seemed to ignore the fact that this particular DPT was presenting herself to be a physician and not a DPT. What other reason would you have to get, "Dr. Soandso" on your lab coat (and why are they even wearing them? That's another issue) instead of, "Soandso, DPT" like every other professional who wears a coat?

My initial reaction was annoyance because of what she was obviously trying to do. My next reaction was, "Ok, so what does she do?". You know how the story ends.

As I stated in my previous post, if you want respect from me, don't present yourself to be something you're not.

The reason I even ended up in this forum was because I noticed there was one and remembered my experience and wanted to dig a bit deeper.

hooahDoc -
Yup, I got your point. I'm afraid that you didn't quite get mine, however. In no way was the therapist in question presenting herself as a medical physician. She was presenting herself as a doctor of physical therapy. A degree that she, along with every graduate of a school which awards said degree, has earned. Just like someone with a PhD in biomechanics, or a DPM, or, a DO earns the title doctor. If her lab coat had stated Jane Doe, MD, now that would have been misrepresentation. I wonder what your lab coat will say? Will it read Dr. hooahDoc, or will it be Joe hooahDoc, DO?

I was using your post as an attempt to illustrate to some of the readers of this blog the types of biases they may encounter during their working years. Essentially trying to tell them that once they have earned their DPT they need to be part of the solution, not perpetuate some of the problems.

I hope that your lack of professionalism on these posts is not a representation of your professionalism when practicing medicine.

Should you wish to learn more about the PT profession, and how it can potentially help some of your patients, please feel free to private message me. I'd be happy to talk to you about these topics at length.

 

[bipennate]

hooahDoc -
Yup, I got your point. I'm afraid that you didn't quite get mine, however. In no way was the therapist in question presenting herself as a medical physician. She was presenting herself as a doctor of physical therapy. A degree that she, along with every graduate of a school which awards said degree, has earned. Just like someone with a PhD in biomechanics, or a DPM, or, a DO earns the title doctor. If her lab coat had stated Jane Doe, MD, now that would have been misrepresentation. I wonder what your lab coat will say? Will it read Dr. hooahDoc, or will it be Joe hooahDoc, DO?

I was using your post as an attempt to illustrate to some of the readers of this blog the types of biases they may encounter during their working years. Essentially trying to tell them that once they have earned their DPT they need to be part of the solution, not perpetuate some of the problems.

I hope that your lack of professionalism on these posts is not a representation of your professionalism when practicing medicine.

Should you wish to learn more about the PT profession, and how it can potentially help some of your patients, please feel free to private message me. I'd be happy to talk to you about these topics at length.

Excellent.

 

[fallbackplan]

HooahDOc. . .I am surprised that you would call a DPT someone who is trying to be a "real doc" when you are a DO medical student who often have chips on their shoulders about not being perceived in the public eye as "real doctors." Now you and I both know, DO's learn the same crap as MDs, but when people say you only treat bones, that makes you kind of angry because you know the truth. Well PT is in the same boat and obviously does not like it when people make snap judgements about your entire professional identity based on misconceptions or limited interaction.

Oh Snap! (said without trying to overly pretentious and disrespectful)

 

[Torques]

And, I'm unsure how I've propagated bigotry and ignorance. Is it ignorant to think that we have some accountability in regards to how our profession is viewed both by patients and other healthcare providers? I can't see how.

Jess,
It's all about intention. Thinking about one thing is different from speaking or acting on it without considering it's implication. I may have prejudices about certain things, stereotype about certain profession but I won't express it the way he did. I will ask the right questions. Have them explain their views professionally. There is a place for issues you raised. It is not really specific to our profession. There are slackers in every profession. One way to address it is to set examples and influence those who are around you. I for instance love to mentor PT's and PTA's in my workplace. I encourage my PT friends to read journals and be more up to date with advancement in our profession. I continue to advance my skills and knowledge by pursuing higher education, taking continuing education courses. Dress and act very professional at work (I avoid looking very casual-sneakers, jeans but this is another discussion...), support our association by being a member. I can name lots and lots of ways to affect our profession and change the public and our colleague's perception. If you look at it, these are all positive actions. One walking a patient down the hallway or wheeling a chair is not degrading. We should be proud of who we are as a profession and not be afraid to call out those who belittle us. Calling his prejudices is more appropriate than raising what is flawed with our profession.


bigotry n. The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.
bigot n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

 

[Torques]

I'm glad someone got the point of what I was trying to say. Many people seemed to ignore the fact that this particular DPT was presenting herself to be a physician and not a DPT. What other reason would you have to get, "Dr. Soandso" on your lab coat (and why are they even wearing them? That's another issue) instead of, "Soandso, DPT" like every other professional who wears a coat?

My initial reaction was annoyance because of what she was obviously trying to do. My next reaction was, "Ok, so what does she do?". You know how the story ends.

As I stated in my previous post, if you want respect from me, don't present yourself to be something you're not.

The reason I even ended up in this forum was because I noticed there was one and remembered my experience and wanted to dig a bit deeper.

It's your view that she is pretending to be an MD. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that she is indeed "have low self esteem" and wanting to be perceived as a "real" doctor (in your mind), you should have approached her and have her change her coat. Explain that she has to place the title PT or DPT or whatever is her title. That my friend is appropriate.

I think an apology is appropriate in this case so everybody can move on. Hopefully, you learn from this experience and be a better person.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Your argument is understandable given the circumstances. Although I think the manner in which you put it, was pretty unacceptable. Granted, anyone would feel the way you felt about any clinician regardless of their field if it was presented in the way it was. Don't let this experience further seclude your knowledge of the field. Use it as a way to look into the profession so that when put in a position to argue for its pro's and con's - you will be in well educated on the manner.


And further more, you ask - Why are they even wearing a lab coat?? Well why do you..scrubs do the same job. You obviously wear it for the prestige and stigma also, so why knock someone for possibly doing it the same way. White coat does not = Doctor of Medicine. Many caregivers in medicine use them, why knock PT for doing the same?

I actually don't wear one unless I am made to by the attendings (who 9/10 don't wear one either).

For the record, I also get annoyed at DOs who use, "Dr. Soandso" instead of, "Soandso, DO", for the few who actually still wear white coats. (I'd prefer to wear a black coat)

 

[xMerryx]

I do not think there is anything wron with calling someone Doctor X when he/she is a DPT or a DO usually is a protocol thing. PHDs in any field are called Doctors, is just a word meaning they have a Doctors or PHD . Now, in any other professional writing, they should specify if they are DOs, PTs or whatever. Is true, the word Doctor does not mean necessarily a MD. Maybe that PT (that just had doctor in the tag) maybe he wanted to be recognized as a doctor in the wrong way as HooahDoc said, we don't know that, but maybe it was imply a word THAT'S IT. In general, in a hospital, patients or others not in the medicine field will call the PT Doctor, because is normal, and that does not mean that other professionals, are pretending to be MDs. I mean really, how many times have you seen a doctor called doctor everywhere he goes and in his/her door you see: NAME. DO. And everyone still calls him/her doctor.

 

[PREMEDWOAHS]

I think most of his grievance comes from the fact that PT's as clinical doctors is not something he is used to. Since the profession has been transitioning, there have been many bitter people over the matter. Take for example, a Chiro, whom you still call a Dr. but you will find no grievance over this matter becuase its something you have grown accustomed too. If the man picking up your garbage every morning had a Doctorate in Waste Management and wore a jacket that said Dr. SoandSo, Dr Of WM - would you not find a little anger in the fact that you feel you put more effort into your degree? Either way, a preconceived notion will always interfere with the future thoughts of a profession. If you always grow up thinking PT is a joke, then that will carry through your career and reflect upon your professionalism.

 

[Torques]

I think most of his grievance comes from the fact that PT's as clinical doctors is not something he is used to. Since the profession has been transitioning, there have been many bitter people over the matter. Take for example, a Chiro, whom you still call a Dr. but you will find no grievance over this matter becuase its something you have grown accustomed too. If the man picking up your garbage every morning had a Doctorate in Waste Management and wore a jacket that said Dr. SoandSo, Dr Of WM - would you not find a little anger in the fact that you feel you put more effort into your degree? Either way, a preconceived notion will always interfere with the future thoughts of a profession. If you always grow up thinking PT is a joke, then that will carry through your career and reflect upon your professionalism.

LOL... I like your analogy... poignant...I will take offense if he's introducing himself as any doctor in a healthcare setting as a healthcare practitioner. If however, he is just visiting and wanting to talk about or market waste management products/services to a family member or whoever, I think he should be proud to represent himself as an expert in the area and proudly present his accomplishment. I am quite sure situation like this will rarely or never happen. A doctor of waste management would have his own office or place of business to do his transactions.
One issue that I think is beyond the scope of this post is turf battle among professions. Some MD's feel that PT's are encroaching on their turf and vice versa (e.g. POPTS, area of diagnostics-EMG, other imaging tools et al). PT's also have these issues with Chiropractors with manipulation.(Im not going there) This issue is legitimately feeding on the negative perceptions among these groups. Hopefully, not to a point of trashing a profession as a whole.

 

[Torques]

I actually don't wear one unless I am made to by the attendings (who 9/10 don't wear one either).

For the record, I also get annoyed at DOs who use, "Dr. Soandso" instead of, "Soandso, DO", for the few who actually still wear white coats. (I'd prefer to wear a black coat)

As far as dress code, I do have a white coat. I prefer wearing dress shirt and dress pants. I occasionally wear tie and white coat. I work in an outpatient setting and treat lots of ortho patients.
HooahDOc,FYI... I very seldom walk patients. PT's do biomechanical examination/analysis-ruling out nonmechanical conditions and evaluate mechanical disorders: sprain/strain/connective tissue dysfunction, LBP, neck and other regional pain and treat physical impairments which leads to patient disability. In the nutshell, MD's diagnose and treat pathology, PT diagnose and treat mechanical impairments/ dysfunction. Hopefully, this gives you some idea of what we do as orthopaedic PT. It is however just a generalization, PT's also work in neuro, cardiopulmonary, peds, geriatrics, electrophysiology, animal PT, school system, home care PT, sports, TMJ, vestibular to name a few. We are integral part of the healthcare system. Lots of people gets their quality of life back because of my profession.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I think most of his grievance comes from the fact that PT's as clinical doctors is not something he is used to. Since the profession has been transitioning, there have been many bitter people over the matter. Take for example, a Chiro, whom you still call a Dr. but you will find no grievance over this matter becuase its something you have grown accustomed too. If the man picking up your garbage every morning had a Doctorate in Waste Management and wore a jacket that said Dr. SoandSo, Dr Of WM - would you not find a little anger in the fact that you feel you put more effort into your degree? Either way, a preconceived notion will always interfere with the future thoughts of a profession. If you always grow up thinking PT is a joke, then that will carry through your career and reflect upon your professionalism.

The way things are going, there probably eventually will be a DWM. I can't wait to see DPhleb, DRT, and DPA. Oh yeah, can't forget DES (Doctor of Engineering Services) or DFS (Doctor of Food Services)

 

[xMerryx]

The way things are going, there probably eventually will be a DWM. I can't wait to see DPhleb, DRT, and DPA. Oh yeah, can't forget DES (Doctor of Engineering Services) or DFS (Doctor of Food Services)

MY GOD! YOU ARE going to be a MD. Who cares if the person next to you is a doctor too in whatever else. Congratulations on your future degree be a good doctor, that's all it matters!

 

[jesspt]

Torques:

You still haven't indicated how my viewpoint or previous posts propagated bigotry and ignorance
You state:

The issue you raise I don't feel are the real issues. There will be good and bad in any profession. The real issue is "bigotry and ignorance". And you are propagating it.

You also posted:

One walking a patient down the hallway or wheeling a chair is not degrading.

I agree that it is not degrading, but it certainly isn't physical therapy. It is WALKING. I can teach my 13 year old nephew to do that with a patient. I'm not sure if you have ever worked in the hospital setting before, but I think that this kind of thing happens way too often, which can lead to the type of misconceptions that have really caused quite a stir in this thread.

Does PT have a place in the hospital? Absolutely. Should it be as a really expensive "patient walker?" Nope. In 2007, Anthony Delitto,PT, PhD, FAPTA, engaged in The Rothstein Debate at the APTA National Conference and Exposition. It was entitled "Should Physical Therapists Practice in Acute Care Settings?" his argument was essentially that we (PTs) might have a place in Acute Care, but we'd better start proving our worth, and proving that we positively impact patient outcomes in a meaningful way, or we are giong to be pushed out of Acute Care. I couldn't agree more.

http://physicaltherapyjournal.org/cgi/issue_pdf/backmatter_pdf/87/5.pdf

We should be proud of who we are as a profession and not be afraid to call out those who belittle us.

I agree. I also think we shouldn't be afraid to call out those within the profession who drag us down.

Calling his prejudices is more appropriate than raising what is flawed with our profession.

Your opinion. I have chosen to do both because, as I have intimated previously, I think the problem is multi-factorial.

I'm enjoying the discussion. I hope others are as well.