production and what should be included?

[medo1]

An offer I am considering in GP: excludes specialist procedures and services, private cremations, prescription and diet refills. I receive 13% for new prescriptions, prescription diets, flea control recommendations in conjunction with exams.

Is this similar to what others are receiving in their offers? I just want to ensure this is fair, I remember discussing briefly in class that diets often weren't included but perhaps things have changed since the demand for veterinarians is so high right now. They also didn't clarify any other expectations if I should get more info on other situations?

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[MixedAnimals77]

Am I reading this right that basically your production would be 13% not just on prescriptions but on exams too?
If so it's an extremely low offer. Most production should be 20-25% depending on pretax benefits. The exclusions you listed seem pretty standard.
Your contract should be fairly straight forward what your production is and if it's confusing bargain hard and make them change it if you feel this is the practice for you.
For example my contract reads 21% of services provided but excludes x,y,and z services. Simple and straight forward. I hope that's helpful

 

[medo1]

its 20 percent with these listed differences, just wanted to make sure that people don't normally get production on refills for prescriptions or prescription diets. I went through some old threads on here and people were saying to make sure to get production on refills as this could make quite a difference and they would never sign something that excludes it. So just wasn't sure what is considered normal for most GP practices (for a new grad).

 

[finnickthedog]

What is considered a "specialist" procedure or service? That seems like a weird exclusion to me because either its not a procedure/service you're performing in which case you already don't make production on it and listing it as an exclusion is odd or it is a procedure/service you're performing in which case why wouldnt you make production on it?

Maybe this is a common exclusion but I would want clarification on what it means.

 

[medo1]

What is considered a "specialist" procedure or service? That seems like a weird exclusion to me because either its not a procedure/service you're performing in which case you already don't make production on it and listing it as an exclusion is odd or it is a procedure/service you're performing in which case why wouldnt you make production on it?

Maybe this is a common exclusion but I would want clarification on what it means.

good point! yeah I guess assumed it would be if we had a cardiologist, orthopedic surgeron etc in on my recommendation, but that should also be a given IMO so I will clarify

 

[SkiOtter]

I get 20% including rx foods, new prescriptions, flea/tick/heartworm preventions. I don't get production on refills. If it goes through the online pharmacy which is cheaper for clients I only get 5% but I think I may get refill production on there but I don’t really know.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Oh hell no. I got 20% on all prescriptions including refills that I authorized (whichever doctor reviewed the rx got it). Only exceptions were prescription diets and a lower percentage for just the topical flea/tick products that had a lower profit margin.

I’m sorry but not getting production on refills blows. Think about the animals on monthly apoquel, NSAIDS, Denamarin, etc… where each animal often generates like $100+ per month. That’s like $20 per patient per medication that associates aren’t getting paid.

Now, I’m not sure that’s something you can necessarily negotiate because it would be really difficult to do that for one associate and not the rest. So it may be a matter of instead asking for a higher percentage, or looking elsewhere unless the overall compensation otherwise makes up for this ****tiness (e.g. no negative accrual with offset for PTO).

I’ve written about the devil being in the details with productions and what components you should think about previously if you search.

 

[SkiOtter]

Yeah I definitely think it SUCKS I don’t get production on refills but I think it’s a corp-wide thing for my corp (at least between a few clinics I know of) and we even have separate “doctor codes” essentially for each dr in our EMR that refills go under so it doesn’t go into production 🥲

 

[finnickthedog]

I don't get production on refills unless they go through our online pharmacy and then I get them at a lower percentage. But for me, most of my patients on chronic meds end up getting their meds somewhere other than in clinic because its cheaper and/or more convenient for them--whether that's our online pharmacy or chewy or some other outside pharmacy. I'd prefer to make production on refills in a perfect world, but it doesn't greatly bother me that I don't.

But I do get new prescriptions at my normal production percentage. I don't think I'd be okay with taking a lower percent on the prescriptions and no refills.

 

[medo1]

Thank you all this has been super helpful! Yeah the rest of the offer is good, just a little lower percentage for 401k than the other two offers i had (3% versus 4% and 5%), and no sign on bonus. Current average for a sign on bonus is 20k. Im sure corporations skew that upwards, but the other private I applied to did offer a 10k bonus (5 as sign on and 5 as retention at a year). I will try to ask for either full percentage on new rx or refills. I'm worried about getting locked into a less than ideal offer with the economy seeming to tank. Shelter returns have doubled here, but I suppose that is a problem in many areas.

Also wondering about surgery for the future. I would like to give up surgery (may not be able to even do surgery depending on my health soon anyways). Is surgery a major source for revenue and how would a company change things to reflect that (if at all?). Also, is this something a corporation can typically accommodate? I imagine corporate could accommodate it better than a small private practice.

 

[SkiOtter]

and no sign on bonus.

You can always try and negotiate for one. Worst they say is they can’t do one.

 

[genny]

Also wondering about surgery for the future. I would like to give up surgery (may not be able to even do surgery depending on my health soon anyways). Is surgery a major source for revenue and how would a company change things to reflect that (if at all?). Also, is this something a corporation can typically accommodate? I imagine corporate could accommodate it better than a small private practice.

Private practice may be able to accommodate this too, it just depends on the practice. I think it's worth discussing during interviews if surgery isn't an interest of yours, especially if there's something else that's your passion for which you want to become the practice's expert.

 

[battie]

Also wondering about surgery for the future. I would like to give up surgery (may not be able to even do surgery depending on my health soon anyways). Is surgery a major source for revenue and how would a company change things to reflect that (if at all?). Also, is this something a corporation can typically accommodate? I imagine corporate could accommodate it better than a small private practice.

I had zero interest in surgery as a GP and my practice accommodated that for me as well as another clinician. The ER I'm at now does the same for several doctors as we have multiple doctors on 18 hours a day anyways. So it's definitely doable

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I imagine corporate could accommodate it better than a small private practice.

Private practice can often do it too.......I had to stop doing surgeries (personal medical reasons), and it was an easy adjustment for my clinic to make (even though we have only 1.5 FTE vets).

 

[Trilt]

As someone on the opposite side (would much rather do surgery than medicine), in both my GP job and ER we're pretty easily able to make that work with people who don't want to do surgery. It's truly a win-win in many situations.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Honestly, in a lot of cases you can make more in production on a busy day in appointments vs. surgery unless the practice gives you a ton of support staff to hog on your surgery day to make it really efficient. There’s only so many patients you can anesthetize in a day if you have minimal support staff, and if you’re doing it correctly, there’s only so many dentals you can do in a day given how time intensive they are.

Unless the clinic has too many vets who choose not to do procedures and they’re specifically looking for someone to do more surgery, it’s not hard to accommodate.

 

[medo1]

that's great! I'm glad others have seen both private and corporate practices ability to accommodate these needs.

They were unwilling to change anything so idk that is pretty disappointing. They also included a perk in the offer letter and didn't include it in the employee contract. They were also unwilling to then include it again???? Ooof

 

[Iamnew2]

that's great! I'm glad others have seen both private and corporate practices ability to accommodate these needs.

They were unwilling to change anything so idk that is pretty disappointing. They also included a perk in the offer letter and didn't include it in the employee contract. They were also unwilling to then include it again???? Ooof

What are vets generally making these days?

 

[battie]

What are vets generally making these days?

I'm a full time ER doc at 70/hr a year and a half out. I am specifically paid hourly at this job. In my first job, which was GP/ER hybrid, I was 90k/year with 20% production (8k in production when I left). Plus benefits and such at both.

 

[JaynaAli]

It’s not really possible to answer “what does a vet make nowadays” because so much depends on location and type of practice. My intern and resident friends make 30-40k a year. My friend in rural mixed practice in a plains state makes 60k-ish a year. My friends doing GP in small to medium sized cities make closer to 100-125k. My friends in big cities and in ERs make closer to 150-175k. My specialist friends may make anywhere from 100-300k depending on location, specialty, and whether they’re in academia or private practice. Just depends.

 

[that redhead]

that's great! I'm glad others have seen both private and corporate practices ability to accommodate these needs.

They were unwilling to change anything so idk that is pretty disappointing. They also included a perk in the offer letter and didn't include it in the employee contract. They were also unwilling to then include it again???? Ooof

Ummm, why are you signjng on with them??? The market is red hot for associates and you should absolutely find yourself a more competitive offer with HONEST people. Big red flag.