Preempting the inevitible rankings thread

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Deferoxamine said:
:thumbup:
Excellent. Very accurate breakdown.
Also, the Brigham absolutely belongs at #1. I'm happy someone else recognizes that.
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There is the Brigham...and then there is everyone else
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idk about that I heard they are going to address the lack of PCPs in the US by only letting residents from Hopkins go on to do fellowship.
 
I'm glad people are starting to take seriously my Top 100 for what they are worth. I'll let everyone decide for themselves what that worth is and the validity of these results and the method to get to them (reader beware).

Since Tufts and Vermont may or may not deserve two mentions in the same quartile, here are only some notable omissions that could have arguably muscled their way in to a spot somewhere, at the expense of some programs lucky to have been on the same page as Brigham and Hopkins.

MCW
Scripps - Green
Scripps - Mercy
Hennepin County
Hofstra/LIJ-NS
North Shore-Evanston
Virginia Mason
Maine Medical Center
Christiana Care
 
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oncomine said:
bunch a bear turd... was there for a while and loved it, check it out, worth the trip
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I loved it too. I was a little bummed when my wife told me that she'd divorce me if we had to move to Lebanon, NH...the difference from NYC was just too much for her.
 
gutonc said:
I loved it too. I was a little bummed when my wife told me that she'd divorce me if we had to move to Lebanon, NH...the difference from NYC was just too much for her.
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How do you recommend traveling there from NYC? A plane ticket cost $250+ and I'll only save an hour or a bit more than driving...
 
emboli said:
How do you recommend traveling there from NYC? A plane ticket cost $250+ and I'll only save an hour or a bit more than driving...
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Well...I think you have your answer then, don't you?

I think there's a bus from Boston but don't know for certain.

I'd just rent a car. I owned a car so it wasn't an issue.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on the difference in ranking and rep between Case Western-university hospitals and the Case Western-Metrohealth programs?
 
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So. Ranking. I have UTSW and then a bunch of schools that I liked a lot but are consistently "ranked" lower than UTSW.

(UW, UNC, Baylor, Brown, Dartmouth, UF, BU-which-I-haven't-visited-and-know-nothing-about, and...the much-discussed CCF).

So my question is what particular disadvantage would I be at to choose, say, UW, UNC, Baylor, Brown over UTSW? UTSW has a great match list for heme/onc compared with some others, but Brown's doesn't seem too bad, UW gave me such a warm fuzzy feeling despite epic freezingness. Also how can you not love how nice Midwesterners are?

I have no real idea what I want, unfortunately, except to be taught well and then to have options about where I train for heme/onc at the end (don't want to be regionally tied down). I-like-oncology-clinics-is-about-as-far-as-I've-gotten.
 
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quepatho said:
So. Ranking. I have UTSW and then a bunch of schools that I liked a lot but are consistently "ranked" lower than UTSW.

(UW, UNC, Baylor, Brown, Dartmouth, UF, BU-which-I-haven't-visited-and-know-nothing-about, and...the much-discussed CCF).

So my question is what particular disadvantage would I be at to choose, say, UW, UNC, Baylor, Brown over UTSW? UTSW has a great match list for heme/onc compared with some others, but Brown's doesn't seem too bad, UW gave me such a warm fuzzy feeling despite epic freezingness. Also how can you not love how nice Midwesterners are?

I have no real idea what I want, unfortunately, except to be taught well and then to have options about where I train for heme/onc at the end (don't want to be regionally tied down). I-like-oncology-clinics-is-about-as-far-as-I've-gotten.
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UW, as in University of Washington? That's a fantastic program and probably on par with UTSW as far as national reputation goes (based on what I can tell). UNC is supposed to be great too and Baylor doesn't really seem like a bad program at all. Can't comment on the others.
 
quepatho said:
So. Ranking. I have UTSW and then a bunch of schools that I liked a lot but are consistently "ranked" lower than UTSW.

(UW, UNC, Baylor, Brown, Dartmouth, UF, BU-which-I-haven't-visited-and-know-nothing-about, and...the much-discussed CCF).

So my question is what particular disadvantage would I be at to choose, say, UW, UNC, Baylor, Brown over UTSW? UTSW has a great match list for heme/onc compared with some others, but Brown's doesn't seem too bad, UW gave me such a warm fuzzy feeling despite epic freezingness. Also how can you not love how nice Midwesterners are?

I have no real idea what I want, unfortunately, except to be taught well and then to have options about where I train for heme/onc at the end (don't want to be regionally tied down). I-like-oncology-clinics-is-about-as-far-as-I've-gotten.
Click to expand...

There is a thread for ranking questions. Please use it
 
Big Four:
1) UCSF
2) Mass General
3) Johns Hopkins
4) Brigham & Women's

Rest of Top Ten:
5) University of Pennsylvania
6) Duke
7) Stanford
8) UCLA
9) Columbia
10) University of Washington

11-20:
11) University of Michigan
12) Washington University
13) Northwestern
14) University of Chicago
15) Beth Israel Deaconess
16) Yale
17) UT Southwestern
18) Emory
19) UCSD
20) Mt. Sinai

21-30:
21) Vanderbilt
22) NYU
23) Mayo Clinic
24) Cornell
25) University of Pittsburgh
26) UVA
27) Case Western
28) University of Alabama
29) Dartmouth
30) Oregon Health Sciences University

31-40:
31) UNC
32) Baylor
33) BU
34) UC Davis
35) UC Irvine
36) University of Wisconsin
37) University of Colorado
38) Brown
39) USC
40) Ohio State
 
Instatewaiter said:
There is a thread for ranking questions. Please use it
Click to expand...

I figured there might be one but I can only assume either it has a totally not-obvious or specific title or it's on page 3 or it's in another forum or something...

(I'm gonna assume it has a totally not-obvious title, so please either link it or change it.)
 
GTV said:
Big Four:
1) UCSF
2) Mass General
3) Johns Hopkins
4) Brigham & Women's

Rest of Top Ten:
5) University of Pennsylvania
6) Duke
7) Stanford
8) UCLA
9) Columbia
10) University of Washington

11-20:
11) University of Michigan
12) Washington University
13) Northwestern
14) University of Chicago
15) Beth Israel Deaconess
16) Yale
17) UT Southwestern
18) Emory
19) UCSD
20) Mt. Sinai

21-30:
21) Vanderbilt
22) NYU
23) Mayo Clinic
24) Cornell
25) University of Pittsburgh
26) UVA
27) Case Western
28) University of Alabama
29) Dartmouth
30) Oregon Health Sciences University

31-40:
31) UNC
32) Baylor
33) BU
34) UC Davis
35) UC Irvine
36) University of Wisconsin
37) University of Colorado
38) Brown
39) USC
40) Ohio State
Click to expand...


Now this is a shot in the dark, but I'm gonna guess youre from the west coast. amirite?!
 
quepatho said:
So. Ranking. I have UTSW and then a bunch of schools that I liked a lot but are consistently "ranked" lower than UTSW.

(UW, UNC, Baylor, Brown, Dartmouth, UF, BU-which-I-haven't-visited-and-know-nothing-about, and...the much-discussed CCF).

So my question is what particular disadvantage would I be at to choose, say, UW, UNC, Baylor, Brown over UTSW? UTSW has a great match list for heme/onc compared with some others, but Brown's doesn't seem too bad, UW gave me such a warm fuzzy feeling despite epic freezingness. Also how can you not love how nice Midwesterners are?

I have no real idea what I want, unfortunately, except to be taught well and then to have options about where I train for heme/onc at the end (don't want to be regionally tied down). I-like-oncology-clinics-is-about-as-far-as-I've-gotten.
Click to expand...

There technically isn't an Official 2012-2013 "How to Rank" Thread yet.

If you want ideas, you can take a look at last years.

Maybe we should start the new one soon... although it's rather early.
 
kjamess said:
Now this is a shot in the dark, but I'm gonna guess youre from the west coast. amirite?!
Click to expand...

West Coast or East Coast, whatever. Interchangeable clueless elitism when it comes to making lists.
 
GTV said:
Big Four:
1) UCSF
2) Mass General
3) Johns Hopkins
4) Brigham & Women's

Rest of Top Ten:
5) University of Pennsylvania
6) Duke
7) Stanford
8) UCLA
9) Columbia
10) University of Washington

11-20:
11) University of Michigan
12) Washington University
13) Northwestern
14) University of Chicago
15) Beth Israel Deaconess
16) Yale
17) UT Southwestern
18) Emory
19) UCSD
20) Mt. Sinai

21-30:
21) Vanderbilt
22) NYU
23) Mayo Clinic
24) Cornell
25) University of Pittsburgh
26) UVA
27) Case Western
28) University of Alabama
29) Dartmouth
30) Oregon Health Sciences University

31-40:
31) UNC
32) Baylor
33) BU
34) UC Davis
35) UC Irvine
36) University of Wisconsin
37) University of Colorado
38) Brown
39) USC
40) Ohio State
Click to expand...

If you just use the tiers and rank by career interest, I'd say this is about right. Would throw cornell in the next bucket up. They're a pedigree program, but just with a touch of a happiness deficit -- at least per my friends there.
 
I'm interested in a career as a medical educator/hospitalist. How much does ranking matter to secure a teaching position after I graduate? Specifically, is there a big difference between a #5 program vs. a #25 program?
 
DirtyNetter said:
I'm interested in a career as a medical educator/hospitalist. How much does ranking matter to secure a teaching position after I graduate? Specifically, is there a big difference between a #5 program vs. a #25 program?
Click to expand...

It depends on where you want to be an educator. Realistically it doesn't matter much though. Most of the top 5 residency programs put very few graduates out as a hospitalists. Most of those are just doing hospitalist work for a year or two until they apply to fellowship to match up with a spouse or to take some time off. The hospitalist programs at most well known hospitals are a smattering people who did their own residency and residencies from all over the country.
 
Instatewaiter said:
I think we are all on the same page about Duke. But, for a program that didn't fill last year, it has been surprising how picky Duke continues to be. There were a lot of people in my residency class who didn't get interviews at Duke for cardiology but got Cleveland, Hopkins, MGH, The Brigham, Penn etc.
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I wasn't aware that Duke didn't fill their class last year? Was this in internal medicine, cardiology or both?
 
anonymousdoc said:
I wasn't aware that Duke didn't fill their class last year? Was this in internal medicine, cardiology or both?
Click to expand...

Duke IM did not fill 5 cycles ago, though it was also an odd situation where multiple Duke residencies did not fill that year (neuro? med-peds? sorry, details are foggy to me at this point).

Not sure about Duke cardiology. However, fellowships not filling do happen on occasion, even at top programs. I recall GI at Brigham did not fill in 2009 (and Hopkins GI the year before that). Some fellowship programs reserve spots for specific tracks (eg. research fellows), and would rather go unfilled than to match an unsuitable candidate for that specific position.
 
Agreed. I think in each category they are all pretty similar, and we realy are splitting hairs between the top 30-50 programs out of 400 academic programs
 
I'm done with most of my interviews and have been ranking them in my mind as I go along. I feel that as I get further from the interviews, I'm more confused about my top 3. My original top 5 in order:
1. BIDMC
2. Yale
3. Mount Sinai
4. Brown
5. Wash U (due to location..I'd prefer the northeast)
I'm thinking of fellowship, possibly cardio or heme/onc. I am wavering between BIDMC and Yale being #1. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
With the new season underway, I just couldn't resist. Anyone aware of any noteworthy shifts? Looks like this year's US News rankings have "Harvard" dropping from 1 to 3 and finally acknowledging that Yale is not in fact a Top 10 program.
 
The very first post in this thread answers your question.
 
I have interviewed at many of the so called "top" 30 (not all 30 though). Based on my experience, experience of my classmates and feedback I got from friends that are currently in IM residency and my advisors, here is my "top" 30 list. I will admit I am very negatively biased towards NYC programs. Having trained in NYC, FWIW, I can attest to the fact that NYC programs have one of worse ancillary staff in the country.
1. BWH
2. UCSF
3. JHU
4. MGH
5. UPenn
6. Stanford
7. Duke
8. University of Washington
9. Columbia
10. Yale
11. Northwestern
12. University of Chicago
13. Wash U St. Louis
14. U of Michigan
15. Cornell
16. Mayo Clinic
17. BIDMC
18. UCLA
19. Mt. Sinai
20. Vanderbilt
21. U Pitt
22. OHSU
23. UAB
24. UTSW
25. Boston University
26. Baylor Houston
27. Emory
28. UCSD
29. NYU
30. UNC
 
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amine2086 said:
I have interviewed at many of the so called "top" 30 (not all 30 though). Based on my experience, experience of my classmates and feedback I got from friends that are currently in IM residency and my advisors, here is my "top" 30 list. I will admit I am very negatively biased towards NYC programs. Having trained in NYC, FWIW, I can attest to the fact that NYC programs have one of worse ancillary staff in the country.
1. BWH
2. UCSF
3. JHU
4. MGH
5. UPenn
6. Stanford
7. Duke
8. University of Washington
9. Columbia
10. Yale
11. Northwestern
12. University of Chicago
13. Wash U St. Louis
14. U of Michigan
15. Cornell
16. Mayo Clinic
17. BIDMC
18. UCLA
19. Mt. Sinai
20. Vanderbilt
21. U Pitt
22. OHSU
23. UAB
24. UTSW
25. Boston University
26. Baylor Houston
27. Emory
28. UCSD
29. NYU
30. UNC
Click to expand...


No.
 
Here's my thoughts (I wanted to post this earlier but didn't want to bump the thread... now that it is bumped). Ranking is serious, but categorization may be tongue-in-cheek:

Maybe can do Cards or GI
1) UCSF, MGH
3) JHU, BWH

Programs which offer a small chance at a fellowship
5) UPenn
6) Duke
7) UW, Columbia, UCLA, Stanford, UMich

Average programs
12) Wash U, Northwestern
14) UChicago, Cornell
16) Yale, BID
18) UTSW, Mayo Clinic
20) UCSD
21) Mount Sinai

Community program equivalents
22) Pitt, Vanderbilt, OHSU
25) Emory, University of Alabama, UNC
28) UVA, Case Western
 
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amine2086 said:
I have interviewed at many of the so called "top" 30 (not all 30 though). Based on my experience, experience of my classmates and feedback I got from friends that are currently in IM residency and my advisors, here is my "top" 30 list. I will admit I am very negatively biased towards NYC programs. Having trained in NYC, FWIW, I can attest to the fact that NYC programs have one of worse ancillary staff in the country.
1. BWH
2. UCSF
3. JHU
4. MGH
5. UPenn
6. Stanford
7. Duke
8. University of Washington
9. Columbia
10. Yale
11. Northwestern
12. University of Chicago
13. Wash U St. Louis
14. U of Michigan
15. Cornell
16. Mayo Clinic
17. BIDMC
18. UCLA
19. Mt. Sinai
20. Vanderbilt
21. U Pitt
22. OHSU
23. UAB
24. UTSW
25. Boston University
26. Baylor Houston
27. Emory
28. UCSD
29. NYU
30. UNC
Click to expand...

Why are there 2 community programs at the top of the list?
 
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amine2086 said:
I have interviewed at many of the so called "top" 30 (not all 30 though). Based on my experience, experience of my classmates and feedback I got from friends that are currently in IM residency and my advisors, here is my "top" 30 list. I will admit I am very negatively biased towards NYC programs. Having trained in NYC, FWIW, I can attest to the fact that NYC programs have one of worse ancillary staff in the country.
1. BWH
2. UCSF
3. JHU
4. MGH
5. UPenn
6. Stanford
7. Duke
8. University of Washington
9. Columbia
10. Yale
11. Northwestern
12. University of Chicago
13. Wash U St. Louis
14. U of Michigan
15. Cornell
16. Mayo Clinic
17. BIDMC
18. UCLA
19. Mt. Sinai
20. Vanderbilt
21. U Pitt
22. OHSU
23. UAB
24. UTSW
25. Boston University
26. Baylor Houston
27. Emory
28. UCSD
29. NYU
30. UNC
Click to expand...

Since regional bias really plays a heavy role in these "rankings" and honestly once you hit the top 25 or so your fellowship/job opportunities aren't going to take a major hit at any of these programs as long as you aren't a complete sociopath and build the connections you need for great letters and productive research I'd just list "elite" IM programs by region and leave it at that:

Northeast: MGH, JHH, BWH, Columbia, UPenn, Cornell, MSSM, BIDMC, Yale, and Pitt.
South: Duke, UTSW, Vanderbilt, UAB, and Emory (one could argue for BCM and UNC).
Midwest: Michigan, WashU, Northwestern, U of Chicago, and Mayo.
West: UCSF, U of Washington, Stanford, and UCLA (one could argue for OHSU and maybe UCSD).

Based on my own N=1 experience I'd honestly say how tough it is to land interviews at top programs (obviously pretty tough for any applicant to comment on matching) follows a regional trend with West > East > Midwest > South. That said, most competitive doesn't necessarily equal highest quality, which until I started interviewing was a very difficult concept to grasp.
 
amine2086 said:
I have interviewed at many of the so called "top" 30 (not all 30 though). Based on my experience, experience of my classmates and feedback I got from friends that are currently in IM residency and my advisors, here is my "top" 30 list. I will admit I am very negatively biased towards NYC programs. Having trained in NYC, FWIW, I can attest to the fact that NYC programs have one of worse ancillary staff in the country.
1. BWH
2. UCSF
3. JHU
4. MGH
5. UPenn
6. Stanford
7. Duke
8. University of Washington
9. Columbia
10. Yale
11. Northwestern
12. University of Chicago
13. Wash U St. Louis
14. U of Michigan
15. Cornell
16. Mayo Clinic
17. BIDMC
18. UCLA
19. Mt. Sinai
20. Vanderbilt
21. U Pitt
22. OHSU
23. UAB
24. UTSW
25. Boston University
26. Baylor Houston
27. Emory
28. UCSD
29. NYU
30. UNC
Click to expand...


why are you bringing this up? this thread needs to stay buried deep in these forums
 
Most of these SDN rankings fall victim to the same trap as the US News report, namely that big names programs get named without merit and isolated programs have nobody to root for them. For example, CCF gets named a lot, and Utah is never mentioned. I doubt if anyone here would claim CCF has stronger IM training than Utah. Out of sight, out of mind I guess.
 
I just figured all of you should know that your opinions / rankings are extremely terrible.
Beyond the top 6-7, you guys mess it up every single time.
Put up the white flag already. There are ~25-30 programs that are in a league by themselves which can be subdivided into about 300 different ways, and let's just leave it at that.
 
padastra said:
Here's my thoughts (I wanted to post this earlier but didn't want to bump the thread... now that it is bumped). Ranking is serious, but categorization may be tongue-in-cheek:

Maybe can do Cards or GI
1) UCSF, MGH
3) JHU, BWH

Programs which offer a small chance at a fellowship
5) UPenn
6) Duke
7) UW, Columbia, UCLA, Stanford, UMich

Average programs
12) Wash U, Northwestern
14) UChicago, Cornell
16) Yale, BID
18) UTSW, Mayo Clinic
20) UCSD
21) Mount Sinai

Community program equivalents
22) Pitt, Vanderbilt, OHSU
25) Emory, University of Alabama, UNC
28) UVA, Case Western
Click to expand...

I think you may have won the internet with this post today. :thumbup:

Fantastic. I love it!
 
amine2086 said:
I have interviewed at many of the so called "top" 30 (not all 30 though). Based on my experience, experience of my classmates and feedback I got from friends that are currently in IM residency and my advisors, here is my "top" 30 list. I will admit I am very negatively biased towards NYC programs. Having trained in NYC, FWIW, I can attest to the fact that NYC programs have one of worse ancillary staff in the country.
1. BWH
2. UCSF
3. JHU
4. MGH
5. UPenn
6. Stanford
7. Duke
8. University of Washington
9. Columbia
10. Yale
11. Northwestern
12. University of Chicago
13. Wash U St. Louis
14. U of Michigan
15. Cornell
16. Mayo Clinic
17. BIDMC
18. UCLA
19. Mt. Sinai
20. Vanderbilt
21. U Pitt
22. OHSU
23. UAB
24. UTSW
25. Boston University
26. Baylor Houston
27. Emory
28. UCSD
29. NYU
30. UNC
Click to expand...
Lol this list is so off and biased.
 
I'll play:

1a) MGH
1b) BWH
1c) JHU
1d) UCSF
5) UPenn
6) Duke
7) Columbia
8) WashU
9) Michigan
10) UWash
11) Stanford
12) UTSW
13) UChicago
14) Cornell
15) BIDMC
16) UCLA
17) Northwestern
18) Vandy
19) Yale
20) Mayo
21) Mt. Sinai
22) Pitt
23) Emory
24) Iowa
25) UAB
26) OHSU
27) Baylor
28) UVA
29) UCSD
30) UNC
31) NYU
32) Wisconsin
33) Colorado
34) Case
35) Utah
36) Boston U
37) Minn
38) Brown
39) Dartmouth
40) Maryland

On the outside looking in: Tufts, USC, Wake, IU, OSU
 
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Here's a thought: regardless of the specific ordering and details, everyone more or less agrees on the "top 20" programs and agrees that while some (the Big Four) will undoubtedly put you at a significant advantage when applying to fellowships, certainly none of the rest will hold you back in any way. My query is, of these Top 20-ish programs, how would you rank them strictly in terms of clinical training? I am curious, because during my interview adventures I felt that some clearly stood out as amazing clinically, where interns do all procedures, the 2nd year residents pretty much comfortable handling anything, etc (Columbia and UTSW come to mind), while others seemed so focused on research that the clinical abilities seemed to take a hit (totally fellow-run ICUs, lackluster morning reports, etc-- I'm thinking of two particular institutions here, one in California and one in Chicago).

Again, I realize that you will come out as perfectly competent from any of these institutions and that you'll have great fellowship opportunities from all of them, but all other things being equal I would imagine that clinical excellence is a factor that most people find important when formulating their rank lists.
 
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