Are program rankings overrated?

[jackinabox1]

Recently been lurking on the heme onc application spreadsheet and have noticed a lot of fighting over tiers of programs, like minutiae: "this program should be 2a vs 2b". There are legit people in that spreadsheet that are basing their self-esteem on this and it makes me wonder if I am missing something...

My understanding prior to all this is that prestige is a product of programs having support for research, which only matters if you want a research career. The other point is that even if you want a research career, it's kind of something you have to continue to grind for. Like someone who goes to a so-called tier 3-4 program can make it into tier 1 with a reasonable amount of grinding during/after fellowship (superfellowship, etc). Conversely, it's not like you have it set once you match a top tier program, you still have to continue grinding research or end up losing the whole prestige edge.

Am I right or wrong on this? Kind of want the heme-onc forefathers/mothers who have gone through with this to provide their perspectives. Seems like madness going on in the spreadsheet.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Yes dear god @gutonc has been saying it for probably a decade now and honestly the ranking obsession on those google sheets is so cringey it actually makes a lot of us actual fellows/attendings not participate.

Fellowship should be about what your actual career goals are, and not getting to a top tier place to impress your mom/Grandma/that girl in your residency class or whatever. If you want to do private practice you’re gonna have a bad time coming from the NIH fellowship, and at the same time going to a clinical community fellowship will definitely make a research career harder.

Caveat that “rankings” MIGHT matter more if you are deadset on a research career but MAINLY because those same cringey people who obsess over them will also be your colleagues in Academia

My advice to anyone in residency is if you know the general geographic location that you want to live then try to match there for fellowship, it will give you to best insight/connections to find the good jobs that don’t get listed. If you don’t have any particular geographic preference then try picking a place you THINK you’d want to live.

 

[gutonc]

Yes dear god @gutonc has been saying it for probably a decade now and honestly the ranking obsession on those google sheets is so cringey it actually makes a lot of us actual fellows/attendings not participate.

I finally gave up saying it this year. Nobody listens to me anyway.

The spreadsheet is a complete clusterf*** every year and is essentially an echo chamber of the blind leading the blind. Nobody who actually knows what they're talking about participates because it's such a hot mess. Which is disappointing because those of us who have been around would be more than happy to give helpful advice in the forum.

 

[Ubba]

Location, location, location. Go somewhere that'll make you happy. Almost everything else is just noise.

 

[Mehena]

Residency and fellowship rankings are essentially superficial comparisons. Nowadays, some 'prestigious' colleges are abandoning the ranking system. Yes, I believe in selecting a program that brings you happiness while also considering its potential impact on your future career without constraints, whether it's in community oncology, a specialized subfield, research, or the pharmaceutical industry. Many residency and fellowship programs, especially those associated with the academic trifecta of VA Health, safety-net hospitals, and university hospitals, provide these opportunities.

Completing a fellowship program at the University of Idaho or New Mexico doesn't relegate someone to less desirable jobs. If you remain unconvinced, examine the credentials of 'leading experts' in various cancer fields, and you might be surprised to learn that many of them passed through non-brand name fellowship or residency training. If you have a preference for prestigious names, institutions like Dana-Farber or Johns Hopkins and Sloan Kettering would welcome you into their 'country club' even after completing your fellowship, often with a substantial salary decrease.

Columbia University ditches the college-ranking system

The Ivy League departure could signal a turning-point in higher education

www.economist.com

 

[ShuperNewbie]

Yes dear god @gutonc has been saying it for probably a decade now and honestly the ranking obsession on those google sheets is so cringey it actually makes a lot of us actual fellows/attendings not participate.

100% this. It's so cringe-y and embarrassing; it's hilarious to think that in a year's time most of you will come back to this and cringe like I cringe when I look back at my high school goth phase.

I check the spreadsheet from time to time and most of y'all are spouting absolute non-sensical BS like you're experts, saying things like "oh yeah the solids department here is stronger" or "yeah this place is better for liquid malignancies but weaker in solids" like... do any of you even know what you're talking about? When I was in residency I didn't even know the difference between solids and liquids beyond the fact that I could poke one with a needle and not the other.

I really sincerely hope that y'all aren't making your rank lists based on some of the nonsense spouted in the spreadsheets. If y'all want real advice from people further down the line, come back to the forums and post. At least you'll know who's answering.

 

[ShuperNewbie]

The bottom line is that at this stage of the game, individual mentors matter way more than how "strong" a program is if you're going into academics, and location matters way more than how "famous" a program is if you're going into anything else. 90% of the private practice or employed jobs I'm hearing about are coming through the grapevine because the folks who are hiring will reach out locally before turning to a recruiter. And a letter or a word of endorsement from Larry Einhorn or Hoss Borghaei or Vincent Rajkumar will open doors in academics better than the "ivory-tower reputation" of your training program. I'll give anyone on the spreadsheets a dollar if they know who those people are without googling them.