Pre-med student wanting to do derm...go MD or DO route?

[AustinLAS]

I am applying to medical school this year and was wondering if my chances are better to go the DO or MD route to become a dermatologist? I know DO's have little shot into an MD derm residency, so that's not my question. Is it easier to get into a DO derm residency as a DO, or is it easier to get into a MD derm residency as an MD?

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[sensitive skin]

I'm going to be brutally honest. The fact that you even asked that question makes me doubt your abilities.

DO: I don't know how many people apply for derm, but there are about 120-130 spots/year. I'm guessing it's one of the top 2 most competitive specialties in DO, just like it is for MD.

MD: See NRMP stats. It's hella competitive.

Go for allopathic US-grad MD - it's always better than DO. It will open many more opportunities in far better residencies than a DO degree will get you. You can also avoid the stigma of DO (sorry DO people...it's true).

Consider derm-related specialties such as Allergy and Rheum. Nothing wrong with those.

 

[Derminator]

DO: I don't know how many people apply for derm, but there are about 120-130 spots/year. I'm guessing it's one of the top 2 most competitive specialties in DO, just like it is for MD.

i'm wondering if the competition would be much less intense (ie no MD/PhDs to compete with, no one from top-ranked med schools). just out of curiosity, if you don't care so much about the degree/schooling and just want to work in derm, why not be a PA?

 

[AustinLAS]

Sensitive skin...you didn't know the answer to my question, so why is my question any indication of my abilities? I want to be a dermatologist and not kick myself if I don't match and then find out that DO's have a much easier time entering this field. Yes, I know they are both very competitive, but does anyone have stats?
From the NRMP website, it looks like there were 338 positions and 567 applicants. I haven't been able to find any stats like this for DO's, so how can I find out how many applicants there are per year?
Derminator...I do care about the degree, I want to be a doctor (preferably an MD, but I have not crossed off DO from possibilities). It would be easy for me to become a PA...I want a challenge, and I want the education.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I'm a current DO student who has looked into this specific issue quite a bit (mainly through these discussions on SDN - lol -), so I wanted to throw in my two cents.

I am applying to medical school this year and was wondering if my chances are better to go the DO or MD route to become a dermatologist? I know DO's have little shot into an MD derm residency, so that's not my question. Is it easier to get into a DO derm residency as a DO, or is it easier to get into a MD derm residency as an MD?

First, keep in mind that you are all but guaranteed to change your mind while in medical school. You'll get exposed to a lot of different things and you may find out that you hate derm and would be more interested in surgery, EM, etc. Go into it with an open mind.

Having said that, you are right that MD derm is a LONG shot for DO students. ACGME derm is the golden goose, and only only 75% of qualified US MD applicants who apply get it. I've personally read some pretty heartbreaking stories on these boards from strong US MD candidates who unfortunately became the '1 in 4' who didn't match.

However, in small numbers, it does happen. I know in the past few years, AZCOM put a few people into MD derm (one student at Mayo Clinic in AZ), my school (KCOM) put one in last year (I believe), CCOM usually gets 1 or so a year, etc. So again, not likely, but not impossible. Would I bet on it? Absolutely not.

DO: I don't know how many people apply for derm, but there are about 120-130 spots/year. I'm guessing it's one of the top 2 most competitive specialties in DO, just like it is for MD.

The number of DOs who apply for ACGME derm is most likely very slim. These students are intelligent ... they understand the statistics. However, I don't think you are taking into account the AOA accredited derm residencies that are ONLY open to DO applicants. There aren't a great number, but obviously your chances are much better at these as a DO applicant.

Go for allopathic US-grad MD - it's always better than DO. It will open many more opportunities in far better residencies than a DO degree will get you. You can also avoid the stigma of DO (sorry DO people...it's true).

Hmm, I'm unsure if this is fair. Is it easier to specialize from a US MD school based strictly on numbers? Yes. Does this take into account how difficult it is for ANYONE (from any side of the coin) to have the drive, stats, and luck to match derm, PRS, ENT, etc?? Absolutely not. Sometimes people act like an applicant who is borderline US MD, solid for DO will go to the MD school and be able to moonwalk into an integrated plastics residency. This simply isn't the case. You will be competing with every 4.0/38 MCAT gunner for those spots ... and nothing is guaranteed. You don't know where you will end up after 4 years, so saying 'US MD is always better' is an odd statements. Additionally, this doesn't give any merit to picking a school based on fit, location, cost, proximity to loved ones, etc. These are the factors that will help you thrive and become the best applicant at the end of the day.

Furthermore, can you explain the 'DO stigma' you're referring to? Outside of SDN, I never experience or hear of this phenomenon. I interact several times a month with a DO dermatologist affiliated with the hospital attached to my DO school. Maybe I'll ask him about it ...

Sensitive skin...you didn't know the answer to my question

I agree. Remember that AOA, DO only derm residencies exist. Now, is it easier for a MD to match ACGME derm or a DO to match AOA derm??? I dunno. My guess is that it's easier for a MD to match ACGME derm. However, review some of my above comments. Take this with a HUGE grain of salt, but I personally know a DO student who agrees with the idea that if you network and meet the right people in the AOA world, a lot of doors open that would be difficult to achieve without the perfect CV (ie: it can be 'easier'). Apply, see where you get in, consider factors like location, cost, proximity to family, 'fit,' etc, and then worry FAR down the road about matching dermatology (if that's even what you still want).

 

[melanocita]

.

 

[panasonic52]

Sorry, no comprende. If you want a challenge, why are you trying to figure out which one's easier? MD school will provide the "challenge" you seek.

Well even if an MD school provides the challenge as far as matching goes, the educational challenge is no different from a DO school. And you have to be somewhat practical in achieving your end goal. He/she wants to be a doctor for sure. If dermatology is route chosen, then it just makes sense to pick a school that gives you the best opportunity to become a dermatologist

 

[AustinLAS]

Sorry, no comprende. If you want a challenge, why are you trying to figure out which one's easier? MD school will provide the "challenge" you seek.

I am not trying to figure out which path (MD or DO) is easier. I was trying to figure out which path would lead me to a dermatology match with more ease. And I was saying that MD or DO school would be more of a challenge than PA school.

Now, is it easier for a MD to match ACGME derm or a DO to match AOA derm??? I dunno. My guess is that it's easier for a MD to match ACGME derm.

Thank you for all the info, and actually understanding and trying to answer my question. I am pretty sure I want to go derm, as I do have a lot of clinical experience. But, I will keep my options open.

 

[panasonic52]

I am applying to medical school this year and was wondering if my chances are better to go the DO or MD route to become a dermatologist? I know DO's have little shot into an MD derm residency, so that's not my question. Is it easier to get into a DO derm residency as a DO, or is it easier to get into a MD derm residency as an MD?

First of all, your avatar makes me miss Austin so much! I'm assuming that's Austin from your name and what looks like the Frost Bank tower in the pic . I don't know if this is much help, but I'm at UNTHSC right now and the TCOM officials were saying that 1 or 2 people matched into a derm residency this past year. They said the rep of DO derm residents from there is getting better every year because each resident that matches makes such a good impression. One of the hospitals (not sure which one) has a DO as the director, and he really likes TCOM students.

Either route will be difficult for dermatology, but I personally think DO would be better. You don't have to compete with the really intense people from MD schools. Do you think you could stand out more at a DO school or an MD school?

 

[Brachyury]

OP, do a serach on DO derm residencies. If you go back to the old derm boards, the DO bias is not from pre-meds; it's from residents and attendings. It seems that the bias is rooted in their belief that DO residencies are inferior to allopathic ones (this sentiment is by no means limited to just derm)

If you want any competitive specialty, you need to be ready from day one to work towards that goal. While going DO will allow you to become a physician, it's going to make it more difficult to go into a more competitive field.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Thank you for all the info, and actually understanding and trying to answer my question. I am pretty sure I want to go derm, as I do have a lot of clinical experience. But, I will keep my options open.

Well that's good you have some relevant clinical experience! However, definitely try to keep your options open. You never know what you'll end up liking in med school.

Having said all this, I think the simplest way for me to answer would be: Extremely hard from both (ie: you have to be a baller either way), and because I can't really justify anecdotal evidence, based on strict numbers ... it's easier to match derm as a MD.

 

[JaggerPlate]

OP, do a serach on DO derm residencies. If you go back to the old derm boards, the DO bias is not from pre-meds; it's from residents and attendings. It seems that the bias is rooted in their belief that DO residencies are inferior to allopathic ones (this sentiment is by no means limited to just derm)

If you want any competitive specialty, you need to be ready from day one to work towards that goal. While going DO will allow you to become a physician, it's going to make it more difficult to go into a more competitive field.

This makes no sense ... MDs are biased because they think DO residencies are inferior. How does that, in any way, affect the op's chances of matching AOA derm as a DO? There are no MD PDs in AOA derm programs? He or she would still be a dermatologist at the end of the day, no matter what 'MDs' thought of the training quality. Also, trust me, the 'bias' that individuals refer to is on the pre-medical level. Now, if you wanted to talk about ACGME PDs being biased toward DO applicants, that would make more sense (and definitely does exist).

 

[sideways]

The reality is you're not going to match derm no matter which route you choose. I'm not trying to be funny. It's just the truth.

 

[Brachyury]

This makes no sense ... MDs are biased because they think DO residencies are inferior. How does that, in any way, affect the op's chances of matching AOA derm as a DO? There are no MD PDs in AOA derm programs? He or she would still be a dermatologist at the end of the day, no matter what 'MDs' thought of the training quality. Also, trust me, the 'bias' that individuals refer to is on the pre-medical level. Now, if you wanted to talk about ACGME PDs being biased toward DO applicants, that would make more sense (and definitely does exist).

Don't kill the messenger: read the old derm boards. The issue of DO training being inferior, at least on the derm boards, seems to premiate the field, and when you're in a field as small as derm . . .

 

[sideways]

Don't kill the messenger: read the old derm boards. The issue of DO training being inferior, at least on the derm boards, seems to premiate the field, and when you're in a field as small as derm . . .

Care to inform me why another derms opinion would matter? Last I checked, derms aren't referring to derms.

 

[Brachyury]

Care to inform me why another derms opinion would matter? Last I checked, derms aren't referring to derms.

It's about understanding politics in a field, and having the respect of your colleagues. It's like with certain anesthesiology jobs: they have no problems hiring DOs, they just don't want people who had DO residencies. Once again, these are not me thoughts, I am merely going to suggest you read the derm boards

 

[sideways]

It's about understanding politics in a field, and having the respect of your colleagues. It's like with certain anesthesiology jobs: they have no problems hiring DOs, they just don't want people who had DO residencies. Once again, these are not me thoughts, I am merely going to suggest you read the derm boards

Your first sentence is a bumper sticker, but means nothing of substance WRT to the topic.

No, it's not just like anesthesiology. Anesthesiologists are HIRED, so in that case people's opinions on your training matter. In derm, you easily start your own practice. In such a case, your colleagues opinions aren't worth sh.t.

 

[Brachyury]

Your first sentence is a bumper sticker, but means nothing of substance WRT to the topic.

No, it's not just like anesthesiology. Anesthesiologists are HIRED, so in that case people's opinions on your training matter. In derm, you easily start your own practice. In such a case, your colleagues opinions aren't worth sh.t.

If you want to go into an unsaturated market and set-up shop, go ahead. If you want to enter a saturated market, it's going to be hard to just set-up your own practice; you're best bet might be to join a practice, and if the group doesn't approve of your training, they're probably not going to hire you.

 

[sideways]

If you want to go into an unsaturated market and set-up shop, go ahead. If you want to enter a saturated market, it's going to be hard to just set-up your own practice; you're best bet might be to join a practice, and if the group doesn't approve of your training, they're probably not going to hire you.

Thanks for the aphorism, but what you're describing doesn't relate to dermatology.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Don't kill the messenger: read the old derm boards. The issue of DO training being inferior, at least on the derm boards, seems to premiate the field, and when you're in a field as small as derm . . .

Two things:

1. I've read through the 'old derm boards' you're referring to ... they are absurd. I personally wouldn't base much of anything off there (anecdotal, but still).

2. We are arguing two completely different points:

-I'm referring to the 'DO stigma' that most pre-meds worry about/argue ad naseum on the pre-med boards.

-You're referring to a lack of respect via MD derms because they think the DO derm training model is inferior.

The bias you're describing, accurate or not, has no correlation to this conversation. The OP is asking about obtaining a residency, not the practice climate. Again, if you wanted to say that ACGME PDs have a bias against DO applicants, I'd both agree with you and see the relevance. However, it probably makes absolutely no difference to the DO applying to AOA programs that 'MDs' in the field will think his/her training was inferior.

Additionally, it's my understanding that derms are always in high demand and that it's the sort of thing where you finish residency and hang a shingle. In fact, I've read advice on these boards saying not to work for someone else. I don't think the opinion of ACGME trained dermatologists makes a difference to the AOA trained derm who practices completely independently of them (and has a 3 week waiting list).

Now, maybe certain MDs wouldn't want to hire an AOA trained derm in their group. Frankly, I didn't even think derm was one of those circles where this type of practice arrangement was prevalent. Nor do I think AOA trained derms have any sort of issues setting up practices and raking in patients. ADDITIONALLY, I'm not sure that your evidence of this is based on anything more than those old derm boards and 'a hunch.'

 

[Brachyury]

Thanks for the aphorism, but what you're describing doesn't relate to dermatology.

So you could just set-up shop in Chelsea, Russian Hill, Beverly Hills, Lincoln Park, or Beacon Hill and be filled with referrals? All dermatologist I have know have been in academic posts, have been directly employed by hospitals in rural areas, or have been in group practices in urban and suburban locations; I have never met one in solo practice. That of course does not mean that my experiences are the standard, but I haven't seen otherwise, and the romanticized notion of a solo-practitioner is slowly becoming dated in modern medicine, irrespective of the field.

I lurk on this board sometimes, and I don't post because I am not a dermatologist, and thus can't/shouldn't say anything. I only posted to inform the OP of the old derm boards. I think I should go back to watching until I am in a position to offer more helpful advice

 

[Brachyury]

Two things:

1. I've read through the 'old derm boards' you're referring to ... they are absurd. I personally wouldn't base much of anything off there (anecdotal, but still).

2. We are arguing two completely different points:

-I'm referring to the 'DO stigma' that most pre-meds worry about/argue ad naseum on the pre-med boards.

-You're referring to a lack of respect via MD derms because they think the DO derm training model is inferior.

The bias you're describing, accurate or not, has no correlation to this conversation. The OP is asking about obtaining a residency, not the practice climate. Again, if you wanted to say that ACGME PDs have a bias against DO applicants, I'd both agree with you and see the relevance. However, it probably makes absolutely no difference to the DO applying to AOA programs that 'MDs' in the field will think his/her training was inferior.

Additionally, it's my understanding that derms are always in high demand and that it's the sort of thing where you finish residency and hang a shingle. In fact, I've read advice on these boards saying not to work for someone else. I don't think the opinion of ACGME trained dermatologists makes a difference to the AOA trained derm who practices completely independently of them (and has a 3 week waiting list).

Now, maybe certain MDs wouldn't want to hire an AOA trained derm in their group. Frankly, I didn't even think derm was one of those circles where this type of practice arrangement was prevalent. Nor do I think AOA trained derms have any sort of issues setting up practices and raking in patients. ADDITIONALLY, I'm not sure that your evidence of this is based on anything more than those old derm boards and 'a hunch.'

Derm boards. I just thought their thoughts might be helpful to the OP since they are unsure of whether to go MD or DO

 

[asmallchild]

We have a couple of DO students rotating through our normally allopathic residency now. One in particular has outstanding stats. But I can tell you even amongst the resident chatter in evaluating the student, this student unfortunately has no chance.

Derm is competitive. You want to give yourself the best possible chance. And that means going the MD route.

 

[AustinLAS]

Thanks for the helpful replies. I'm unsure of how this thread lead to posts about DO stigma, but most replies were helpful. I'm still unable to find out how many DO's apply to a DO derm residency (from what I gather there are about 42 PGY-2 spots available and you have to wait until you are a PGY-1 to apply), but from the info I have I think that going the MD route will lead to more opportunities for derm or any other specialty I may choose, especially since I would like to stay in Texas. Thanks again.

 

[N-Surge]

The DO stigma discussion probably has to do with the idea of the DO matching into MD dermatology residency slots (not that I agree with such a stigma, considering I have personally worked w/ DO's who clearly know medicine just as well, and have the added factor of training in techniques I have not been trained in). This would play some part in your chances to match into such a spot having been DO trained. See both sensitive skin and asmallchild's comments. I can't say it any better.

[Clarification] Although, I am not sure MD is ALWAYS better. I think DO training would rock when it comes to something like PMR, Sports Medicine, or even Orthopedic Surgery. Am I wrong?

 

[sensitive skin]

The DO stigma is there - no, perhaps not among DO's, but certainly among allopathic derm programs (and any ROAD specialty) - residents and attendings alike. Ask any dermatologist if he or she thinks a DO has a chance of matching. Exactly.

Sure, I suppose it won't matter if you finished residency and started your own private derm practice. But actually getting INTO an allopathic derm residency? Nearly impossible as a DO, and very very difficult as MD.

If you were truly a gunner and aiming for derm, applying to DO should not even register on your radar.

It's already like this for allopathic MS4's applying to derm (obviously those who match, make the "one shot")

 

[N-Surge]

I was wondering where my golf ball landed. Hence the reason I did not go into Radiology. I run better and running seems to be more of a derm thing than golf, at least from what I have gathered thusfar.

 

[Dermatophilic]

The reality is that some MD programs will not even consider a DO applicant, even if they have impeccable stats

The other reality is that DOs have their own programs, so if you're a DO and apply to allopathic programs but don't match you can still try to match DO, which with networking some would argue becomes easier to do than matching MD


In the end it's up to you and where you want to be. If you really want to be a dermatologist you have to understand it's gonna be tough whether it's MD or DO, but you have to be persistent and want it either way and somehow you can make it happen

 

[sensitive skin]

Some DO derm programs are so crappy they have to send their residents to allopathic grand round days because they do not have their own grand rounds.

I don't even know why OP had to ask the question. Just DOn't go DO. Not for derm.

When I see a DO -- in my head, I hear Homer Simpson go "D'OH!"

The reality is that some MD programs will not even consider a DO applicant, even if they have impeccable stats

The other reality is that DOs have their own programs, so if you're a DO and apply to allopathic programs but don't match you can still try to match DO, which with networking some would argue becomes easier to do than matching MD


In the end it's up to you and where you want to be. If you really want to be a dermatologist you have to understand it's gonna be tough whether it's MD or DO, but you have to be persistent and want it either way and somehow you can make it happen

 

[JaggerPlate]

Some DO derm programs are so crappy they have to send their residents to allopathic grand round days because they do not have their own grand rounds.

I don't even know why OP had to ask the question. Just DOn't go DO. Not for derm.

When I see a DO -- in my head, I hear Homer Simpson go "D'OH!"

I find this attitude pretty disheartening/odd. Especially from someone who is so far along in their training.

Nice post to Dermatophilic though!

 

[sensitive skin]

Apologies.

Try asking program directors what they think. You'll find it even more disheartening hearing it from them - who will give their succinct answer: "There is no chance."

I find this attitude pretty disheartening/odd. Especially from someone who is so far along in their training.

Nice post to Dermatophilic though!

 

[sideways]

I find this attitude pretty disheartening/odd. Especially from someone who is so far along in their training.

Nice post to Dermatophilic though!

I'd take sensitive skin's thoughts with a grain of salt.

It must be difficult to work so hard to get into a field - work fueled by an unquenchable desire for respect and admiration - only to find yourself mocked by the general public once you've arrived at the doorstep of your expected Promised Land. Everyone sensitive skin meets in real life thinks her job consists of nothing more than popping pimples and imagines the equivalent of her training is something that could be acquired with a few spare hours spent on a Sunday at their local mall's cosmetics kiosk. So she trickles in here, with "derm" written under her screenname just in case you didn't know, and rather than answering the question, she has to make further attempts to self-flagellate her own deflating ego by putting down her colleagues because they have different letters behind their names.

You see where her priorities are, and you see why that's problematic for someone in derm. It's God's little joke on the average derm. Sensitive skin should've gone into neurosurgery. She obviously has the personality pathology, she just didn't have the foresight.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Apologies.

Try asking program directors what they think. You'll find it even more disheartening hearing it from them - who will give their succinct answer: "There is no chance."

It had nothing to do with the subject matter - if you'll read my previous posts in this thread, I am well aware and realistic about the landscape of matching ACGME derm as a DO. I agree with the 'succinct answer.' Personally, I wouldn't waste my time. There are a few each year, but you never fully know the circumstances behind these matches.

However, I was put-off by your attitude towards the subject matter - DOs in derm/the degree in general. I guess I'd like to imagine that every pre-med gunner grows up into a mature, well-adjusted adult by the time they have that 'resident' status, but maybe now I'm the one being naive.

 

[Substance]

Consider derm-related specialties such as Allergy and Rheum. Nothing wrong with those.

I never bought this opinion. Sure, allergy and rheum deal with some conditions that overlap with derm, but then again, so does mostly every other field in medicine. Furthermore, the practice styles are totally different, with derm having more opportunity for minor surgical procedures whereas rheum features joint injections and MSK examinations, and allergy has the prick/patch test(which derm also has). Derm's focus is also on visual recognition, which is not a focus in any other clinical field. Derm is unique.

 

[CandidateofDerm]

I'd take sensitive skin's thoughts with a grain of salt.

It must be difficult to work so hard to get into a field - work fueled by an unquenchable desire for respect and admiration - only to find yourself mocked by the general public once you've arrived at the doorstep of your expected Promised Land. Everyone sensitive skin meets in real life thinks her job consists of nothing more than popping pimples and imagines the equivalent of her training is something that could be acquired with a few spare hours spent on a Sunday at their local mall's cosmetics kiosk. So she trickles in here, with "derm" written under her screenname just in case you didn't know, and rather than answering the question, she has to make further attempts to self-flagellate her own deflating ego by putting down her colleagues because they have different letters behind their names.

You see where her priorities are, and you see why that's problematic for someone in derm. It's God's little joke on the average derm. Sensitive skin should've gone into neurosurgery. She obviously has the personality pathology, she just didn't have the foresight.

Insulting ALL the judges in this debate while trying to insult one person is usually not the best way to try to win a debate. At this point, sensitive skin is right. This may change over tome but currently it is just the way things are. You have to be truly special as a do to get into an md derm residency. And I don't just mean special as in a good student or interesting person. I mean special to someone in the program in that you are the spouse of a faculty member (true) or you have ties and connections (read political or monetary power) that behooves the residency to take you or risk angering people (true in another case). I suppose that there are awesome dos that get in because they are absolute rockstars though, but no one really knows where connections begin and end. If this were a bet in Vegas though the odds would be something ridiculous like under 1 percent that you come into med school as a do and finish an md derm residency. There are just too many points for self selection out of derm way before the your ERAS is even submitted. Sorry.

 

[Dermatophilic]

Some DO derm programs are so crappy they have to send their residents to allopathic grand round days because they do not have their own grand rounds.

I don't even know why OP had to ask the question. Just DOn't go DO. Not for derm.

When I see a DO -- in my head, I hear Homer Simpson go "D'OH!"

Well what can I say I can't refute that first point because I've seen it happen, but only for one or two grand rounds not by any means the whole year

As for your opinion of DO's, I don't know why you think their training would be inferior.In fact the ones applying to derm would have to be superstars in order to make an impression anywhere whether it's the MD or DO world

I think all the DO applicants have to have even more willpower and persistence because they have to put up with hearing stuff like this from some MD's

 

[N-Surge]

I never bought this opinion. Sure, allergy and rheum deal with some conditions that overlap with derm, but then again, so does mostly every other field in medicine. Furthermore, the practice styles are totally different, with derm having more opportunity for minor surgical procedures whereas rheum features joint injections and MSK examinations, and allergy has the prick/patch test(which derm also has). Derm's focus is also on visual recognition, which is not a focus in any other clinical field. Derm is unique.

I did think this at some point, the rheum/derm analogy. However, now that I am a PGY2 in the clinics I gotta agree with Substance. I am seeing how ID and Onc are just as much similar to Derm (handing out Abx's and Chemo's). Heck, FM is probably more like Derm considering Fam's probably see lots of skin issues and treat them, only to send us Derms the weird unresponsive stuff we love to figure out.

IMO, there's nothing quite like Derm. Well, only maybe Neurosurgery. I only say this because I initially wanted to do Neurosurgery (honest). Therefore, they must be similar.

 

[sideways]

Insulting ALL the judges in this debate while trying to insult one person is usually not the best way to try to win a debate. At this point, sensitive skin is right. This may change over tome but currently it is just the way things are. You have to be truly special as a do to get into an md derm residency. And I don't just mean special as in a good student or interesting person. I mean special to someone in the program in that you are the spouse of a faculty member (true) or you have ties and connections (read political or monetary power) that behooves the residency to take you or risk angering people (true in another case). I suppose that there are awesome dos that get in because they are absolute rockstars though, but no one really knows where connections begin and end. If this were a bet in Vegas though the odds would be something ridiculous like under 1 percent that you come into med school as a do and finish an md derm residency. There are just too many points for self selection out of derm way before the your ERAS is even submitted. Sorry.

I don't mean to insult all docs in derm. I'm sure it's a cool field. I'm merely pointing out my opinion of sensitive skin and people of her ilk. If she cares to challenge me on my assumptions, have at it. But her rags on DOs reveal what's really going on with her.

Secondly, the OP isn't asking about DO getting into an MD derm residency. They're asking about which is an easier route to break into derm: MD into MD residency or DO into DO residency. The question couldn't be more clear, but of course, for many, the knee-jerk reaction was to speak loftily of the challenges a DO faces in the MD derm match. Cool story bro, but that's not the question being asked.

 

[CandidateofDerm]

I don't mean to insult all docs in derm. I'm sure it's a cool field. I'm merely pointing out my opinion of sensitive skin and people of her ilk. If she cares to challenge me on my assumptions, have at it. But her rags on DOs reveal what's really going on with her.

Secondly, the OP isn't asking about DO getting into an MD derm residency. They're asking about which is an easier route to break into derm: MD into MD residency or DO into DO residency. The question couldn't be more clear, but of course, for many, the knee-jerk reaction was to speak loftily of the challenges a DO faces in the MD derm match. Cool story bro, but that's not the question being asked.

Kinda does relate, tool. Considering there are roughly 105 md derm that control the vast majority of derm training in america compared to a handful of do programs. What we are saying is don't expect to go do and have a realistic chance to match at an md derm program. Therefore if u go DO u better expect to match do only. Therefore, to make this painfully obvious for u sideways you will have fewer spots that you can apply and realistically expect to match if u go the DO route. Sorry you can't infer the obvious to see how it applies, but I hope I have spelled it out

I won't speak on the fact of how intense competition for these do derm spots are because I don't know. But the only way it would be smarter to go do is if u believe that do's are dumber and you can own the competitive advantage against them. I think this would be a stupid assumption to make because I think a lot of osteopathic docs end up their bc of slow starts in college or life events that made them less competitive that have nothing to do with intelligence. Therefore, the wisest decision IMHO is to to an md school where you have more programs hence more chances to match. Screw u, I'm out.

 

[sideways]

Kinda does relate, tool. Considering there are roughly 105 md derm that control the vast majority of derm training in america compared to a handful of do programs. What we are saying is don't expect to go do and have a realistic chance to match at an md derm program. Therefore if u go DO u better expect to match do only. Therefore, to make this painfully obvious for u sideways you will have fewer spots that you can apply and realistically expect to match if u go the DO route. Sorry you can't infer the obvious to see how it applies, but I hope I have spelled it out

I won't speak on the fact of how intense competition for these do derm spots are because I don't know. But the only way it would be smarter to go do is if u believe that do's are dumber and you can own the competitive advantage against them. I think this would be a stupid assumption to make because I think a lot of osteopathic docs end up their bc of slow starts in college or life events that made them less competitive that have nothing to do with intelligence. Therefore, the wisest decision IMHO is to to an md school where you have more programs hence more chances to match. Screw u, I'm out.

<NOTE TO SELF: I'm being called a tool by someone with the screenname CandidateofDerm>

It relates zero. The question is which match is more difficult, DO for DO or MD for MD. But I appreciate your attempt at again ignoring this very basic fact. Any further attempts by you to ignore this fact will be met with internet pictures of ******s and such.

 

[CandidateofDerm]

It relates zero. The question is which match is more difficult, DO for DO or MD for MD. But I appreciate your attempt at again ignoring this very basic fact. Any further attempts by you to ignore this fact will be met with internet pictures of ******s and such.

No it does relate because it breaks into a numbers game. There are more md spots than do spots when u totally take out that dos cannot go md. I will take my chances with having 340 chances at matching instead of how ever many do programs have. When you can't count on adding md programs plus do programs it makes no sense to go do unless you think dos are ******ed compared to md schools. Apparently this is what u think. Do would only be easier if dos are dumber and you have a competitive advantage over them because they are slow and u are md worthy. Is that what u are saying?

 

[N-Surge]

The DO vs. MD has everything to do with being able to apply to DO and MD spots. It matters, whether or not the OP, or anyone else, realizes this. On a positive note, based on numbers, the DO student can try for more spots. No?

 

[sideways]

No it does relate because it breaks into a numbers game. There are more md spots than do spots when u totally take out that dos cannot go md. I will take my chances with having 340 chances at matching instead of how ever many do programs have. When you can't count on adding md programs plus do programs it makes no sense to go do unless you think dos are ******ed compared to md schools. Apparently this is what u think. Do would only be easier if dos are dumber and you have a competitive advantage over them because they are slow and u are md worthy. Is that what u are saying?

Wow, you really have me in a corner Hume.

I've never said anything other than to clarify what the question is. In response to your numbers game, you may want to look into the fact that there are far fewer DOs in training than MDs. Combine that with the fact that there's likely a greater of proportion of people pursuing osteopathic medicine with genuine interest in primary care. Furthermore, DO residencies tend to value experience with student rotators above just a sheer analysis of numbers. So maybe, just maybe, you may find yourself at a competitive advantage tackling the derm match from a DO angle than an MD angle. Whether that's a reality for a given medical student or not is something I can't answer, nor can you.

For your benefit, let us both cross our fingers that your derm interviews won't have any logic puzzles.

 

[CandidateofDerm]

You are a tool because you are tryuing to tell people who know about dermatology and have gone through the process and matched what they know and don't know. In fact many of these people including myself have input on who gets interviews. Then u insist that I am not answering a question that I am clearly answering and giving my opinion to support. The supporting argument is so the op knows what my reasons are for giving the answer I gave.you are not funny. You are not knowledgeable. So war r u contributing on the DERM board to this thread.

 

[CandidateofDerm]

Wow, you really have me in a corner Hume.

I've never said anything other than to clarify what the question is. In response to your numbers game, you may want to look into the fact that there are far fewer DOs in training than MDs. Combine that with the fact that there's likely a greater of proportion of people pursuing osteopathic medicine with genuine interest in primary care. Furthermore, DO residencies tend to value experience with student rotators above just a sheer analysis of numbers. So maybe, just maybe, you may find yourself at a competitive advantage tackling the derm match from a DO angle than an MD angle. Whether that's a reality for a given medical student or not is something I can't answer, nor can you.

For your benefit, let us both cross our fingers that your derm interviews won't have any logic puzzles.

Do you know any of this for fact or are u just making crap up. This is someones major life decision and u are guessing that dos have less desire for derm because they are pcp oriented! Maybe they have more desire because they have more debt. If you have no experience whatsoever don't give ur opinion. I gave my opinion as someone who made the same decision at one point on whether to go do or md and then went through the dermatology matched successfully into a top program. What do u bring to the table here other than guess and conjecture that just muddles the question being asked.

 

[sideways]

Do you know any of this for fact or are u just making crap up. This is someones major life decision and u are guessing that dos have less desire for derm because they are pcp oriented! Maybe they have more desire because they have more debt. If you have no experience whatsoever don't give ur opinion. I gave my opinion on someone who made the same decision at one point on whether to go do or md and then went through the dermatology match successfully. What do u bring to the table here other than guess and conjecture that just muddles the question being asked.

I have far more experience with DOs than you. And yes, many are genuinely interested in specialties such as family practice, and specialties with emphasis on the musculoskeletal system. That's why they are at osteopathic schools. It's also fact that DO residencies value interaction with student rotators above a simple analysis of a candidate's numbers. Do these facts change the climate of the DO derm match? Again, I don't know, but it's a worthy question, and it's the question the OP was asking. So while we all enjoy your war stories of the MD derm match, they don't answer the question.

 

[CandidateofDerm]

I have far more experience with DOs than you. And yes, many are genuinely interested in specialties such as family practice, and specialties with emphasis on the musculoskeletal system. That's why they are at osteopathic schools. It's also fact that DO residencies value interaction with student rotators above a simple analysis of a candidate's numbers. Do these facts change the climate of the DO derm match? Again, I don't know, but it's a worthy question, and it's the question the OP was asking. So while we all enjoy your war stories of the MD derm match, they don't answer the question.

What a cop out. I suppose no one will ever know the true answer because no one has gone through both md and do match. Ps, a lot of mds have interest in pcp just like dos do too that is until they actually apply. Don't always believe what people tell you upfront. And I bet when u do statical analysis the people with the best grades and board scores get the best do residency spots on average.

The one point u do raise that I am interested in is the total number of do students and the total number of do applicants compared with the spots. I will concede this point. Does anyone have this info for the op?

 

[sideways]

What a cop out. I suppose no one will ever know the true answer because no one has gone through both md and do match. Ps, a lot of mds have interest in pcp just like dos do too that is until they actually apply. Don't always believe what people tell you upfront. And I bet when u do statical analysis the people with the best grades and board scores get the best do residency spots on average.

I don't disagree. The DO match just seems to have some unique qualities, more specifically the emphasis on their perception of you during audition rotations over raw numbers, that make it qualitatively different than the MD match. I've never said it's better to go DO if you want derm, nor have I said it's worse. It's certainly ******ed to go DO if you want to match MD derm, but if all you want is derm no matter how you get there, then it's an intelligent question for a pre-med to ask: which is easier to get into derm through MD or DO. People reflexively say MD, but I'm merely trying to point out some of the lesser known facts of matching in competitive DO residencies to further bolster the validity of the OPs question.

A DO derm would be a huge voice on the argument.

A caveat to everything I've said, and I believe it was my first response in the thread: you won't match derm no matter which route you choose.

 

[CandidateofDerm]

The one point u do raise that I am interested in is the total number of do students and the total number of do applicants compared with the spots. I will concede this point. Does anyone have this info for the op?

 

[JaggerPlate]

Kinda does relate, tool.

I won't speak on the fact of how intense competition for these do derm spots are because I don't know. But the only way it would be smarter to go do is if u believe that do's are dumber Screw u, I'm out.

makes no sense to go do unless you think dos are ******ed compared to md schools.

You are a tool.

ROFL. Good luck matching ...