Practicing Overseas...

[crhoody12]

I am not sure if anyone can answer this question but I was wondering if after graduation from a 4-year pod school and having their PM&S 36 residency, are you qualified to hypothetically move over to Europe and practice? I say this because a sort of dream I don't know if its feasible and its a slim-to-none chance of happening, but it would involve such a thing. I am really big on soccer (football in Europe) and I really want to try to get involved with it by practicing sports medicine/foot and ankle surgeries and maybe move my way up the ranks overseas (be that specialists that everyone comes to type of thing). I know its a slim chance to begin with, but I was wondering if there is any new qualifications I would need to obtain, different board tests, etc?

I remember reading somewhere on SDN-Pod someone saying for their 3/4 year clinical or residency program, that they or someone they knew was able to practice abroad (Europe). If that person reads this or if someone knows more about that whole process, any input would help. I'm just trying to see if its a possibility. Thanks!

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[Dr_Feelgood]

I am not sure if anyone can answer this question but I was wondering if after graduation from a 4-year pod school and having their PM&S 36 residency, are you qualified to hypothetically move over to Europe and practice? I say this because a sort of dream I don't know if its feasible and its a slim-to-none chance of happening, but it would involve such a thing. I am really big on soccer (football in Europe) and I really want to try to get involved with it by practicing sports medicine/foot and ankle surgeries and maybe move my way up the ranks overseas (be that specialists that everyone comes to type of thing). I know its a slim chance to begin with, but I was wondering if there is any new qualifications I would need to obtain, different board tests, etc?

I remember reading somewhere on SDN-Pod someone saying for their 3/4 year clinical or residency program, that they or someone they knew was able to practice abroad (Europe). If that person reads this or if someone knows more about that whole process, any input would help. I'm just trying to see if its a possibility. Thanks!

Some countries have podiatrist in Europe, now where you can practice or not I do not know. It is hard for anyone to get a license from another country. Heck, a guy in Seattle was a vascular surgeon in Italy and had to start residency all over again b/c he moved to the states. He knew more than many of his attendings. But that is the game when you move to another country, they want to ensure you are qualified.

Also, getting on with a futball team will not be easy. You may have more success trying to work in the states first with MLS or the NT and then make connections in Europe.

 

[PMSIII]

Some countries have podiatrist in Europe, now where you can practice or not I do not know. It is hard for anyone to get a license from another country. Heck, a guy in Seattle was a vascular surgeon in Italy and had to start residency all over again b/c he moved to the states. He knew more than many of his attendings. But that is the game when you move to another country, they want to ensure you are qualified.

Also, getting on with a futball team will not be easy. You may have more success trying to work in the states first with MLS or the NT and then make connections in Europe.

great post first of all, but I just wanted to point out to the OP that though some european countries have podiatry associations and the practice of podiatry, they don't in fact have the US scope.

The U.S. trained podiatrist can participate in fellowship programs overseas for training purposes but NOT for practice. As Dr. Feelgood said, this is very contingent on the laws of the country.

As for pursuing a dream of working with soccer players, the MLS is definitely a good prospect because some of the teams have podiatrists. They had a featured article on sports podiatrists (specifically the MLS) on the APMA magazine a few months ago. You should note though, that most elite english premier league players get their surgical treatment in the U.S. I read about an orothopedic knee specialist located in Colorado who operated on the likes of Ruud Valniestelrooy (pardon my spelling), Alan Sheerer, and Michael Owen. So maybe there's an opportunity in the U.S. afterall.

 

[crhoody12]

Thank you for your post. Yeah the guy in Colorodo + Knee surgery is kind of what I aspire to be in terms of the foot/ankle. I just had added interest in possibly moving and living over there later in life and was curious of logistics of it. Do you know how I could access that article you spoke about with podiatrists and the MLS. Again, that is something I would love to do. I really want to tie these two interests of mine together and maybe make a career of it if possible. Practicing in the USA vs there would not matter to me, I just want to practice sports medicine and soccer. Upon going to school, would there be certain things I should lean towards more whether it be service activities, internships, places for residency, etc? Do you know of someone who already exists who is kind of in the role of what I want to do? (or would you think most athletes would rather see an orthopedic ankle specialists instead?)
Also, these international internships/fellowship programs; do most schools know the application process for these things if a student is interested in them?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Thank you for your post. Yeah the guy in Colorodo + Knee surgery is kind of what I aspire to be in terms of the foot/ankle. I just had added interest in possibly moving and living over there later in life and was curious of logistics of it. Do you know how I could access that article you spoke about with podiatrists and the MLS. Again, that is something I would love to do. I really want to tie these two interests of mine together and maybe make a career of it if possible. Practicing in the USA vs there would not matter to me, I just want to practice sports medicine and soccer. Upon going to school, would there be certain things I should lean towards more whether it be service activities, internships, places for residency, etc? Do you know of someone who already exists who is kind of in the role of what I want to do? (or would you think most athletes would rather see an orthopedic ankle specialists instead?)
Also, these international internships/fellowship programs; do most schools know the application process for these things if a student is interested in them?

There are a lot of pods that work in sports med. Dr. Bouche in Seattle and Dr. Sexena in California are two doctors that work a lot with sports. I think that one of Bouche's associates does all of the foot and ankle injuries for some big dance company and I know that they work with a lot track and field stars. Dr. Wiel is the pod for the Chicago White Soxs. I think what is important is you get in with a strong orthopaedic/sports med group b/c you need to have all areas covered (shoulder, back, knees, ankles, feet, hands, ect).

As for the fellowships they have fellowships in the states for sports med. The fellowships are after residency not during school so the schools don't have a ton of info on them. The ones overseas are more surgical principles such as AO ORIF, Ilizarov ex-fix, ect.

 

[jonwill]

I am not sure if anyone can answer this question but I was wondering if after graduation from a 4-year pod school and having their PM&S 36 residency, are you qualified to hypothetically move over to Europe and practice? I say this because a sort of dream I don't know if its feasible and its a slim-to-none chance of happening, but it would involve such a thing. I am really big on soccer (football in Europe) and I really want to try to get involved with it by practicing sports medicine/foot and ankle surgeries and maybe move my way up the ranks overseas (be that specialists that everyone comes to type of thing). I know its a slim chance to begin with, but I was wondering if there is any new qualifications I would need to obtain, different board tests, etc?

I remember reading somewhere on SDN-Pod someone saying for their 3/4 year clinical or residency program, that they or someone they knew was able to practice abroad (Europe). If that person reads this or if someone knows more about that whole process, any input would help. I'm just trying to see if its a possibility. Thanks!

Podiatry in many Euro countries, as well as Australia/New Zealand, is a bachelors or masters degree. They aren't doctors, don't do surgery, and focus primarily on biomechanics. They publish quite a bit in JAPMA.

 

[cool_vkb]

Podiatry in many Euro countries, as well as Australia/New Zealand, is a bachelors or masters degree. They aren't doctors, don't do surgery, and focus primarily on biomechanics. They publish quite a bit in JAPMA.

No this is not totally true. In Australia, NZ and England Podiatry is divided into two degrees.

1st degree is bachelor's level degree where the candidate is just trained for basic primary foot care. And after BS you are free to practice as a basic practioner. Now if you want more action you are supposed to do specialization (i.e MS or MSc)

2nd degree is a masters degree which one does after completing the BS in Podiatry or BSc in Podiatry. This master's degree has specializations like Sports Medicine, Orthopedics, Surgery,etc.

And atleast in Australia and NZ, Pods do surgery and are respected.

Singapore , Malaysia also allow Aussie Pods to practice there.

Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Kuwait, Oman who are kind of US allies do allow US podiatrists to practice and work in their hospitals as foot and ankle surgeons.

Usually there are two blocks of podiatry in world

1) The British Block : England, South Africa, Australia, England, Singapore and NZ

2) The american block : USA, Canada, Australia and Middle eastern countries

An american graduate can freely practice podiatry to maximum extent of his scope in the american block countries.

But to practice in British block countries there are some other regulations to be meant but even then he can practice once he meets the requirements,

In france, spain, austria podiatry is more like chiropody so nothing much action there.

In Australia an average Pod makes AUS $ 40-50 K (which is like american 35K). Now i dont see why would an american pod who can make easily in 150-200K US dollars range wud go to Australia or Singapore or britain.

OH one more thing, Australians do allow US Podiatrists to practice directly as F & A surgeons. where as there own podiatry graduates have to go thru 2-3 yrs of more surgical training as they dont get surgical training in their Bachelors degree.

 

[alparkeruab]

I know this is slightly off topic, but has anyone heard of any US professional football or basketball teams keeping podiatrists on their medical staffs?? What about college football or basketball teams?

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

I know this is slightly off topic, but has anyone heard of any US professional football or basketball teams keeping podiatrists on their medical staffs?? What about college football or basketball teams?

Utah Jazz in NBA have a podiatrist on staff. He has been there over 20 years.

 

[JEWmongous]

When I did my internship at OCPM, I heard about a type of affiliation the school was working on between them and the cleveland cavs. The cavs just built a brand new training facility in Independence, Ohio right by the new OCPM facilities. I believe the idea is for the OCPM faculty to be the F and A docs of the team while allowing the 3rd and 4th year students to do rotations at the games/practices.

If anyone can clarify this info, please feel free to do so. I contacted the school in early June but they said nothing was finalized yet.

 

[Feli]

There are a lot of pods that work in sports med. Dr. Bouche in Seattle and Dr. Sexena in California are two doctors that work a lot with sports. I think that one of Bouche's associates does all of the foot and ankle injuries for some big dance company and I know that they work with a lot track and field stars. Dr. Wiel is the pod for the Chicago White Soxs. I think what is important is you get in with a strong orthopaedic/sports med group b/c you need to have all areas covered (shoulder, back, knees, ankles, feet, hands, ect).

As for the fellowships they have fellowships in the states for sports med. The fellowships are after residency not during school so the schools don't have a ton of info on them. The ones overseas are more surgical principles such as AO ORIF, Ilizarov ex-fix, ect.

This is good advice.^

Marque Allen (SA Spurs, etc) and James Losito (Miami Heat, etc) are two more DPMs that I'd add to the list of higher-ups in the pod sports medicine arena. I know that Dr. Losito is the director of a competitive sports med fellowship here in Miami, and I think Dr. Allen is affiliated with UTHC-SA (check that, though... Dr. Harkless just retired and they may be switching things up a bit).

There are a lot of opportunities here in the US to work with pod sports med. You won't get any of those jobs with the pro teams by accident, but they are out there for hard working pods. A lot of pod students are initially interested in sports med, but many practicing DPMs actually shy away from it. The pay typically isn't as good compared to simple bunions and heel pain, and the outcome expectations with high-level athletes as your patients are usually very high.

To the OP, if you want practice outside the US, I'd recommend a MD degree. As was mentioned, a lot of DPMs study outside the US to learn ortho techniques, but a US-certified MD is just a more internationally transferrable degree if you truly want to be a globe trotting practitioner. Go to Carribean, spend $40K+ on annual tuition alone, try to pass classes, try to pass USMLE, try to get a residency (and be one of the few to get non-FP)... oh, wait, nevermind... just go to pod school and be happy in the best country in the world

 

[cool_vkb]

Go to Carribean, spend $40K+ on annual tuition alone, try to pass classes, try to pass USMLE, try to get a residency (and be one of the few to get non-FP)... oh, wait, nevermind... just go to pod school and be happy in the best country in the world

Being an immigrant myself, i agree with you 100%. There is no other country like USA. Yeah visiting as a tourist to other countries and getting amazed by their culture, history, nature is one thing but settling down there to practice or work is totally different ball game. God bless USA.

Oh speakin abt Carribean. My cousin goes to a medical school which is the only thing that exist on that island (2-5 sq.km area) with no police, no cars, no proper infrastucture. In the beginning it looked like its the ultimate dream.A Tropical paradise. but later things really scared him. he was telling me, once a week they get a ship load of grocerries with all damaged goods, and current is provided by generators and solar power with frequent outages for hours, Internet is a dream there (once in a while if you get lucky you might get the Satellite internet), the school itself is like a slum dwelling with huge mosquitoes, insects,etc. lol! And once hurricane warning came and the college staff was no where to be seen itseems. all students were scared to death but thankgod nothing happened. He decided to leave that place right at that moment. but Poor guy had to wait for 7 days till the next ship came to pick him up from island, then spent 3 days at another island to catch the ferry to their main land and then finally got on plane to reach Miami and to chicago.

Yeah there are some top carribean which are totally like US cities but they are very very few and freakin expensive.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I'd second guess the Caribbean school advice. Ortho is not an easy field to get into and then you are going to a much lesser school (by reputation). You would have a better chance going DO than Caribbean in my mind. If you did go overseas you had better get a great board score, but this is true for DO also, you need a good COMLEX or you need to sit for both the COMLEX and the USMLE.