Pharmacy School In-State vs. Out of State? Differences?

[John T]

I don't steer away pre pharms hard, but I simply have no idea why some are so dead set on any field. The RX field is changing somewhat rapidly (Amazon Pharmacy, CVS/Aetna, WG/Rad merger, School openings, increase in residency requirement for hospital jobs, downward pressure on TGT/WMT/Grocers from amazon.)
The bread and butter of the profession (retail) is under so much competitive pressure its crazy. Though not exactly related to industry, why so many want to jump in a field with diminishing opportunity overall is stunning.
In my trade area many RX grads finish debt free and pull 130K but have to do 6-7 years college min.
RN associates finish debt free and pull 75K starting with only 2.5 years college. after another 4 they are pulling 100K, with much more demand for their labor.

Sure others who only care about the money and being debt free. I don’t find RN intriguing enough pursue. It just doesn’t interest me.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[headortail]

Not everyone has what it takes to be an RN (I don't); it's not just about the education. I know pharmacists and RN don't always get along, but I have a lot of admiration for them - they take the most **** from difficult, non-compliant/unappreciative patients including physical violence. That and not wanting to have too much direct patient contact/not wanting to examine body parts, pharmacy was the right choice for me within health care. So I understand why some people are set on it. If it wasn't pharmacy, it wasn't gonna be healthcare, period (for a while it was between a PhD vs pharmacy but writing grant proposal and failed experiments discouraged me quite a bit)

If your GPA is low, can you just not attend this year, retake prereq classes to up your GPA, and take the PCAT? Doing (really) well on the PCAT means you have A LOT more options, including reputable public schools like UMich, U Maryland, etc, schools where people will not be questioning you "Where's that?" If you've already been working for a few years, it would be wise to wait another year to get in a good school. Sure the market may not get better as you wait, but 1 year won't be a game changer. If you already know what you want to do, do not hurry. Take your time and set yourself up in the best possible scenario. The last thing you want to do is look back 4 years from now and wish you had gotten into a better school to maximize your chance of landing a job you can tolerate for the next 30 years.

 

[aboveliquidice]

Not everyone has what it takes to be an RN (I don't); it's not just about the education. I know pharmacists and RN don't always get along, but I have a lot of admiration for them - they take the most **** from difficult, non-compliant/unappreciative patients including physical violence. That and not wanting to have too much direct patient contact/not wanting to examine body parts, pharmacy was the right choice for me within health care. So I understand why some people are set on it. If it wasn't pharmacy, it wasn't gonna be healthcare, period (for a while it was between a PhD vs pharmacy but writing grant proposal and failed experiments discouraged me quite a bit)

If your GPA is low, can you just not attend this year, retake prereq classes to up your GPA, and take the PCAT? Doing (really) well on the PCAT means you have A LOT more options, including reputable public schools like UMich, U Maryland, etc, schools where people will not be questioning you "Where's that?" If you've already been working for a few years, it would be wise to wait another year to get in a good school. Sure the market may not get better as you wait, but 1 year won't be a game changer. If you already know what you want to do, do not hurry. Take your time and set yourself up in the best possible scenario. The last thing you want to do is look back 4 years from now and wish you had gotten into a better school to maximize your chance of landing a job you can tolerate for the next 30 years.

I've never met resistance to any position interview, despite going to a school that wasn't full status. As a supervisor that's hired outpatient and clinical pharmacists, I've never placed any weight on school. We don't ask for your GPA... ever. Experience and board certification matter. Getting a position depends on who you know rather than what you know (for better or worse). Mentorship and networking are a big part of success.

 

[headortail]

My experience points to the contrary. I have been asked what school I went to, and one person asked how long my school has been around, as well as what my GPA was. A few asked why I didn't go to school in CA. I've also heard discussion where people won't be taking students from particular schools anymore (and you can probably imagine won't be very receptive with future candidates from that school), so it certainly matters if you go to a local school with a terrible reputation.

I agree that networking and who you know is the most important, but there are hiring managers out there who have specifically asked me, so I can only speak to my own experience.

 

[PharmtoCS]

If you go to the school known for sending dangerously incompetent students on rotations then chances that most preceptors and employers will not touch you with a 10-foot pole. In this case the only networks you will form are those with sites that will use you as free labor.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Your $60/hr as a pharmacist will easily become $30/hour after taxes and student loan payments. If pharmacist wages drop then you’ll be taking home even less.

As others have said, just look at the example of P@toPh@arm as someone who didn’t listen to us when we told them not to go to pharmacy school.

To be fair, @PAtoPharm gave the profession a fair chance. If you ask me, he made the best of the situation; I.e., only accrued one year of pharmacy school debt, boosted his grad school GPA in a program that is technically above master’s level; thereby proving he’s more than qualified to finish any PA/AA of his choice.

 

[Apotheker2015]

I guess it’s a give and take. Have you gone to California? If you have, you would understand. I got accepted to a midwestern school already and boy does the weather blows and nothing to do lol.

The way you talk about California it’s almost as if it were something amazingly beautiful. Meh, I’d rather go to school in the Midwest, and stay here afterwards, enjoy an individual salary that’s about 2.5 the median household income and be able to hop on an international flight any time I want.

Fool, I don’t spend my money here. I travel. The US is about the same no matter where you look. And while I’m comfortable here, I won’t be retiring here in the US. Why would I? There are so many places where my dollar would buy me a live-in maid, a personal chef and chauffeur.

Best of luck to you. I’m out.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I guess it’s a give and take. Have you gone to California? If you have, you would understand. I got accepted to a midwestern school already and boy does the weather blows and nothing to do lol.

Only boring people get bored - Everyone's Grandpa

I was so broke in pharm school (low tuition, low COL area) that I couldn't afford to do much of anything anyway. Pick the school with the nicest library as that is where you'll be spending your time if you want residency, dual degree, competitive credentials.

 

[John T]

Only boring people get bored - Everyone's Grandpa

I was so broke in pharm school (low tuition, low COL area) that I couldn't afford to do much of anything anyway. Pick the school with the nicest library as that is where you'll be spending your time if you want residency, dual degree, competitive credentials.

Nah it’s just dead in the Midwest lol. Gotcha I’ll consider what you said except the library cause idc if it’s nice lol

 

[John T]

The way you talk about California it’s almost as if it were something amazingly beautiful. Meh, I’d rather go to school in the Midwest, and stay here afterwards, enjoy an individual salary that’s about 2.5 the median household income and be able to hop on an international flight any time I want.

Fool, I don’t spend my money here. I travel. The US is about the same no matter where you look. And while I’m comfortable here, I won’t be retiring here in the US. Why would I? There are so many places where my dollar would buy me a live-in maid, a personal chef and chauffeur.

Best of luck to you. I’m out.

Ha I guess the traffic was a turn off for ya. Everyone has different taste. I guess you like the quiet plains and not the flashy lights. I disagree with the US being the same everywhere. There’s quite a big difference if you traveled everywhere.

Btw, Good luck living that maid luxury life in retirement.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Only boring people get bored - Everyone's Grandpa

I was so broke in pharm school (low tuition, low COL area) that I couldn't afford to do much of anything anyway. Pick the school with the nicest library as that is where you'll be spending your time if you want residency, dual degree, competitive credentials.

WELL SAID. There’s plenty to do here and FREE. Besides, if you’re doing things right in pharmacy school, all you will have time for is to study, gym a few times a week and some Netflix here and there.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Ha I guess the traffic was a turn off for ya. Everyone has different taste. I guess you like the quiet plains and not the flashy lights. I disagree with the US being the same everywhere. There’s quite a big difference if you traveled everywhere.

Btw, Good luck living that maid luxury life in retirement.

Yes, thank you. I’ll enjoy it without even having to touch my 401k Don’t become another xenodochiophobic American fool. There’s a good one for you. The maid, chauffeur, and personal chef are all affordable at around 2,000/month and sometimes less in many countries.

I live in a city of 3.5 million with decent public transportation both busses and a metro system that takes you straight to a large international airport. So if you’re picturing me like Peter and Heidi fetching cattle in the Swiss Alps for Grandpapa, you’ve got the wrong idea. Typical... if it’s not California or NYC, the rest of us MUST live in a shed.

It’s a no brainer. Your 500K for a shoebox in most cities in California buys me either a huge home here where a home for 350K is just ostentatious OR a 4-plex with an FHA loan with positive cash flow from day one.

 

[John T]

Yes, thank you. I’ll enjoy it without even having to touch my 401k Don’t become another xenodochiophobic American fool. There’s a good one for you. The maid, chauffeur, and personal chef are all affordable at around 2,000/month and sometimes less in many countries.

I live in a city of 3.5 million with decent public transportation both busses and a metro system that takes you straight to a large international airport. So if you’re picturing me like Peter and Heidi fetching cattle in the Swiss Alps for Grandpapa, you’ve got the wrong idea. Typical... if it’s not California or NYC, the rest of us MUST live in a shed.

It’s a no brainer. Your 500K for a shoebox in most cities in California buys me either a huge home here where a home for 350K is just ostentatious OR a 4-plex with an FHA loan with positive cash flow from day one.

That’s awesome. Yeah the maid and all of that. I got a taste of it when I traveled to Singapore, Japan, Taipei and South Korea. It’s nice and all but in reality, despite the costs and tax, i’d rather live in the US. There’s countries where they don’t have their rights. But that’s another story. But good for you!

 

[headortail]

How in the world would you get a maid for <$2k / month in Singapore, Japan, Taipei and South Korea? I know Japan personally - it's more expensive to live in major Japanese cities than it is American cities.

Yes, thank you. I’ll enjoy it without even having to touch my 401k Don’t become another xenodochiophobic American fool. There’s a good one for you. The maid, chauffeur, and personal chef are all affordable at around 2,000/month and sometimes less in many countries.

I live in a city of 3.5 million with decent public transportation both busses and a metro system that takes you straight to a large international airport. So if you’re picturing me like Peter and Heidi fetching cattle in the Swiss Alps for Grandpapa, you’ve got the wrong idea. Typical... if it’s not California or NYC, the rest of us MUST live in a shed.

I have this problem with the California mentality as well. I've traveled extensively within the US (as well as outside), and most major cities are pretty much similar to me. Even with the 2 million resident city I was in with >80% people being Caucasians, I had no problem finding major stores for necessity; food choices weren't nearly as abundant as CA but there were a few good options around. I'm with you in regards to retiring outside of the US, but wouldn't bank on having a live-in maid. Countries where you can actually afford a live-in maid typically don't have nearly as good of a health care system, and around retirement age is when you start to have problems; countries with health care where you can depend on typically are nearly as costly or more than the US. I could see myself living in, say, Southeast Asia for a few years but would be cautious as I approach 70. I simply don't trust hospitals there.

My ideal retirement would be living elsewhere for half a year, rent out my home for that half (AirBnB or something of the sort) and living here for a half a year. With air travel so easy these days, there's no need to confine one's self to a particular location. You can give me a house overlooking the beach in San Diego, and I still would want to travel to get out. However, there are people who don't have such travel yearnings, would rather have a small house, lower QOL, to live in good weather/close to friends, and that mentality is valid too. To each his/her own.

 

[John T]

How in the world would you get a maid for <$2k / month in Singapore, Japan, Taipei and South Korea? I know Japan personally - it's more expensive to live in major Japanese cities than it is American cities.



I have this problem with the California mentality as well. I've traveled extensively within the US (as well as outside), and most major cities are pretty much similar to me. Even with the 2 million resident city I was in with >80% people being Caucasians, I had no problem finding major stores for necessity; food choices weren't nearly as abundant as CA but there were a few good options around. I'm with you in regards to retiring outside of the US, but wouldn't bank on having a live-in maid. Countries where you can actually afford a live-in maid typically don't have nearly as good of a health care system, and around retirement age is when you start to have problems; countries with health care where you can depend on typically are nearly as costly or more than the US. I could see myself living in, say, Southeast Asia for a few years but would be cautious as I approach 70. I simply don't trust hospitals there.

My ideal retirement would be living elsewhere for half a year, rent out my home for that half (AirBnB or something of the sort) and living here for a half a year. With air travel so easy these days, there's no need to confine one's self to a particular location. You can give me a house overlooking the beach in San Diego, and I still would want to travel to get out. However, there are people who don't have such travel yearnings, would rather have a small house, lower QOL, to live in good weather/close to friends, and that mentality is valid too. To each his/her own.

Connections and networking with people. It was cool. But I wouldn’t want to retire out of the country. The healthcare system is poor. Quality sucks. Human rights sucks. I’ve seen it when I traveled to these countries.

 

[Apotheker2015]

How in the world would you get a maid for <$2k / month in Singapore, Japan, Taipei and South Korea? I know Japan personally - it's more expensive to live in major Japanese cities than it is American cities.

I have this problem with the California mentality as well. I've traveled extensively within the US (as well as outside), and most major cities are pretty much similar to me. Even with the 2 million resident city I was in with >80% people being Caucasians, I had no problem finding major stores for necessity; food choices weren't nearly as abundant as CA but there were a few good options around. I'm with you in regards to retiring outside of the US, but wouldn't bank on having a live-in maid. Countries where you can actually afford a live-in maid typically don't have nearly as good of a health care system, and around retirement age is when you start to have problems; countries with health care where you can depend on typically are nearly as costly or more than the US. I could see myself living in, say, Southeast Asia for a few years but would be cautious as I approach 70. I simply don't trust hospitals there.

My ideal retirement would be living elsewhere for half a year, rent out my home for that half (AirBnB or something of the sort) and living here for a half a year. With air travel so easy these days, there's no need to confine one's self to a particular location. You can give me a house overlooking the beach in San Diego, and I still would want to travel to get out. However, there are people who don't have such travel yearnings, would rather have a small house, lower QOL, to live in good weather/close to friends, and that mentality is valid too. To each his/her own.

Costa Rica, México, colombia, chile, Brazil. There are more places like that. Throw Nicaragua in there too.

Like you said, to each their own.

 

[Apotheker2015]

How in the world would you get a maid for <$2k / month in Singapore, Japan, Taipei and South Korea? I know Japan personally - it's more expensive to live in major Japanese cities than it is American cities.


I have this problem with the California mentality as well. I've traveled extensively within the US (as well as outside), and most major cities are pretty much similar to me. Even with the 2 million resident city I was in with >80% people being Caucasians, I had no problem finding major stores for necessity; food choices weren't nearly as abundant as CA but there were a few good options around. I'm with you in regards to retiring outside of the US, but wouldn't bank on having a live-in maid. Countries where you can actually afford a live-in maid typically don't have nearly as good of a health care system, and around retirement age is when you start to have problems; countries with health care where you can depend on typically are nearly as costly or more than the US. I could see myself living in, say, Southeast Asia for a few years but would be cautious as I approach 70. I simply don't trust hospitals there.

My ideal retirement would be living elsewhere for half a year, rent out my home for that half (AirBnB or something of the sort) and living here for a half a year. With air travel so easy these days, there's no need to confine one's self to a particular location. You can give me a house overlooking the beach in San Diego, and I still would want to travel to get out. However, there are people who don't have such travel yearnings, would rather have a small house, lower QOL, to live in good weather/close to friends, and that mentality is valid too. To each his/her own.

Malaysia.

Sometimes I see these cashiers at Walmart struggling to meet ends. When I mention to them in passing the idea of retiring abroad, it’s just out of their realm of possibilities. They’d rather stay poor here.

Someone born on 01/01/1995 who as of today makes 25,000/year is expected to get $1,180 per month at full retirement age.
That’s plenty in any of the countries I mentioned.

Like you said, to each their own

 

[PharmtoCS]

Sometimes I see these cashiers at Walmart struggling to meet ends. When I mention to them in passing the idea of retiring abroad, it’s just out of their realm of possibilities. They’d rather stay poor here.

I doubt that they can even save enough for a nest egg to retire, even abroad. Even if they work a second job and/or go on welfare many of them will have nearly nothing left after paying for necessities.

 

[BC_89]

Hello everyone,
I live in California and applied to a variety of in-state schools as well as out of state schools. Apart from costs and networking for a job, what are the differences between going to pharmacy school in california and out of state?

You hit the nail on the head: COST

 

[Apotheker2015]

I doubt that they can even save enough for a nest egg to retire, even abroad. Even if they work a second job and/or go on welfare many of them will have nearly nothing left after paying for necessities.

The disparity between the pharmacy and the rest of the store is extreme. It’s sad but we all make our choices.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Your $60/hr as a pharmacist will easily become $30/hour after taxes and student loan payments. If pharmacist wages drop then you’ll be taking home even less.

As others have said, just look at the example of P@toPh@arm as someone who didn’t listen to us when we told them not to go to pharmacy school.

Come on Stoichiometrist. I'm a huge fan of yours but PA to pharm is on our side! Please don't hate on him. That's friendly fire.

 

[Modest_anteater]

If you knew that HICP has a total scam from the “gecko,” then by that same logic wouldn’t you realize how out of line your expectations are given your credentials?

Many of those who were thought to be decent or even great students from higher ranked schools end up not matching with a residency or fellowship, and that is not even because they were bad; it is because they are that competitive. They have to settle for retail positions, some of them far from their hometown away from friends and family. Even some residency grads are forced to relocate and/or settle for retail.

You graduated with a 2.6 GPA and even lower science GPA overall. With that, you managed to get into 2 or so third rate pharmacy schools that will accept just about anyone willing to pay their outrageous tuitions, 1 of which is not even accredited. You claim that you will stand out and make yourself a desirable candidate yet do not have shown that you have accomplished anything significant. How do you expect to compete with students from far more reputable schools when many preceptors and employers won't touch students from your school with a 10-foot pole?

You need to rethink your goals of earning $60+/hr with the luxury of living in California in a cushy clinical or industry position and think about whether pharmacy will really help you achieve them.

"pharmacy schools that will accept just about anyone willing to pay their outrageous tuitions"

this x9999999

 

[Modest_anteater]

The way you talk about California it’s almost as if it were something amazingly beautiful. Meh, I’d rather go to school in the Midwest, and stay here afterwards, enjoy an individual salary that’s about 2.5 the median household income and be able to hop on an international flight any time I want.

Fool, I don’t spend my money here. I travel. The US is about the same no matter where you look. And while I’m comfortable here, I won’t be retiring here in the US. Why would I? There are so many places where my dollar would buy me a live-in maid, a personal chef and chauffeur.

Best of luck to you. I’m out.

The Pros of California (SF not LA (LA sucks)):

-Amazing weather

-One of the best economies in the world Google, Salesforce, Apple, ect while the rest of America is literally rotting from lack of economical activities

-SF and San Jose are two of the wealthiest cities in the world. Sure it might not matter for you but if you have kids or a significant other a city with high paying good jobs and successful people matters.

-excellent liberal culture

Why the midwest is terrible

You say the midwest has excellent CoL and it does. Mainly because no one wants to live there.

Let me repeat that.

The midwest has excellent CoL because there is minimamal market demand for living there because no one wants to live in the Midwest. The economy is non-existant (outside of Denver), anyone young or with a pulse is moving out in droves and only geriatrics too old and frail to leave are staying. Even in the Mid west's flagship cities like Chicago people are leaving. Chicago and Detroit continue to bleed their population to other more successful states.

Car culture dominates the midwest. You will not interact with your community. you will become overweight from driving in a car all day. You will be a slave to the steering wheel. What gas eventually hits 5 USD a gallon again you will be financially restricted from driving around places especially with that huge mor*nic pick up truck.

There is no people density so if you are single you will be unable to find a romantic partner.

Dry climate. No lush forests or trees. Boring environment. Flat for miles. Boring people. Old people.

Highest suicide rate (firearms) per a capital in the US.

The US only has two real cities and those are SF and Manhattan. Everywhere else is flyover states and the midwest is flyover in spades.

 

[steveysmith54]

The Pros of California (SF not LA (LA sucks)):

-Amazing weather

-One of the best economies in the world Google, Salesforce, Apple, ect while the rest of America is literally rotting from lack of economical activities

-SF and San Jose are two of the wealthiest cities in the world. Sure it might not matter for you but if you have kids or a significant other a city with high paying good jobs and successful people matters.

-excellent liberal culture

Why the midwest is terrible

You say the midwest has excellent CoL and it does. Mainly because no one wants to live there.

Let me repeat that.

The midwest has excellent CoL because there is minimamal market demand for living there because no one wants to live in the Midwest. The economy is non-existant (outside of Denver), anyone young or with a pulse is moving out in droves and only geriatrics too old and frail to leave are staying. Even in the Mid west's flagship cities like Chicago people are leaving. Chicago and Detroit continue to bleed their population to other more successful states.

Car culture dominates the midwest. You will not interact with your community. you will become overweight from driving in a car all day. You will be a slave to the steering wheel. What gas eventually hits 5 USD a gallon again you will be financially restricted from driving around places especially with that huge mor*nic pick up truck.

There is no people density so if you are single you will be unable to find a romantic partner.

Dry climate. No lush forests or trees. Boring environment. Flat for miles. Boring people. Old people.

Highest suicide rate (firearms) per a capital in the US.

The US only has two real cities and those are SF and Manhattan. Everywhere else is flyover states and the midwest is flyover in spades.

How do you find a pharmacist job in SF or afford to live there if you have family on a average pharmacist salary?

 

[headortail]

How do you find a pharmacist job in SF or afford to live there if you have family on a average pharmacist salary?

In their mid thirties, they live with their parents saving up for that one million dollar house that can barely fit a family of 4. They hope they can pay off their pharmacy school loan in 30 years.

But hey, I'm sure we can hear the statistics from others. What do I know, I only have a sample size of 1. I love SF, but it surely isn't for the poor. My cousin, newly wed, converted his dad's garage to a room for him and his wife. It actually is much better than a lot of rental properties.

 

[steveysmith54]

In their mid thirties, they live with their parents saving up for that one million dollar house that can barely fit a family of 4. They hope they can pay off their pharmacy school loan in 30 years.

But hey, I'm sure we can hear the statistics from others. What do I know, I only have a sample size of 1. I love SF, but it surely isn't for the poor. My cousin, newly wed, converted his dad's garage to a room for him and his wife. It actually is much better than a lot of rental properties.

Don’t think a million buys you a house in SF. Maybe a shack

 

[Modest_anteater]

How do you find a pharmacist job in SF or afford to live there if you have family on a average pharmacist salary?

1. Stop being a slave for corporate and run an independent. Average income per an independent OWNER is over 200,000 USD in SF.

2. Work 60 hours a week at a normal pharmacist job

3. Live in a large RV for free on the city streets. You must change sides of the street, sometimes a couple times a week.