Pharmacist going MD.

[pharmacist.throwaway]

Hello,
I am hoping that it is okay for me to post here, hopefully not breaking any rules.
I wanted to get an opinion from practicing physicians to see if what I am about to embark on is not completely insane.
I have been a hospital pharmacist for the past 10 years. Long story short, I always wanted to be a physician and that was the goal right after high school but I moved to the US as an international student and had to abandon medical school for pharmacy school for various reasons but my plan at that point was to finish pharm, get a green card, and apply to med school. I did so and after 10 long years, I have finally applied and actually got accepted. I realize I am very fortunate to be in this position where I do not have any debt other than a mortgage, a solid financial position for my age, and a medical school acceptance.
But over the past few months I have found myself second guessing my decisions. I am 34 years old, with a family who depends on me. I can certainly financially support us through medical school with my savings but I wonder if I will be damaging myself financially for the rest of my life. When I started this journey, I knew that I will financially not be better of compared to staying with pharmacy but felt like its my calling and so had to attempt medicine. But I have suddenly started worrying about it. I have physician friends and I notice that most of these guys just end up talking about "money". I ask myself that if it eventually just becomes all about the money, and if eventually will become just like them, than why even go that route? Now, if I look at pure numbers, I see that i can at least come close to breaking even if I do a shorter residency and make atleast 300k.
So my reason to even start this thread; My interest would be to do IM - hospitalist seems like the most realist goal. I work 7 on/7 off at the moment so used to missing out on family activities, though a Dr arguably works much harder so don;t know if burn out would be a factor or not. Are you as a hospitalist, happy with your job? Can hospitalists make atleast 300 K? I do hustle (I have a full time job and two prn jobs) so it is even remotely possible that I can hit those numbers to break even? Can I bring in a take home of atleast 250 k after taxes? What are your thought on someone my age, with my salary, going this route? Is it completely insane?

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[IMGASMD]

There is a non traditional student forum, maybe they can offer advice.

No one will have the right answer. It’s just what you want to do. Four years of med school, three years in IM residency. So the earliest you will be an attending would be ~41, if there are no bumps on the way.

You WILL miss some important events in your kids and family’s lives, there is just no way around it. You may stress your family out...... you may miscalculated your financial stability, still end up taking out large amount of loans. You may need to ask for help from your family and or friends. Med school is no joke.... at the same time your old friends and/or old colleagues are moving on with their lives. Yours will sort of be on a long pause.....

If you still want to do it with all that considerations, go and chase your dream. It’s not going to be easy..... it can be rewarding.

Good luck.

 

[rokshana]

if you are going to be happy being a pharmacist for the rest of your career, then don't change.
if you want to become a doctor because medicine is want you want to do and it will make you happier in your career life, then do it...actually getting an acceptance to medical school as a nontraditional student isn't the easiest thing, so the admission committee must have seen something.

if you are looking to go into medicine to make money....there are easier ways too make money.

only you (and your family) know the answer.

BTW, started med school at 38.

 

[pharmacist.throwaway]

Yes, I understand that one should not go in to medicine for the money.

I guess what I am trying to figure out for myself is if I should stay in pharmacy for the money despite knowing this is not what I want to do for the rest of my life. Can I tolerate it? Sure, some days more than others!

@rokshana, are you happy as a physician who went through med school at 38? Do you feel like you should have done something else with your life? Are you a hospitalist? Did you have a family through school ?

 

[tantacles]

Yes, I understand that one should not go in to medicine for the money.

I guess what I am trying to figure out for myself is if I should stay in pharmacy for the money despite knowing this is not what I want to do for the rest of my life. Can I tolerate it? Sure, some days more than others!

@rokshana, are you happy as a physician who went through med school at 38? Do you feel like you should have done something else with your life? Are you a hospitalist? Did you have a family through school ?

There is no right answer. As a physician who started medical school at 25, I still have days where I'm not completely happy, and not one of my colleagues is completely satisfied all the time. Some of them are completely miserable. If the money is what motivates you, stay in pharmacy. However, you will likely ultimately make more money as a physician, though this depends on what field you choose.

 

[Splenda88]

My situation was not exactly similar but I was also working in healthcare making ~50k/yr (2 days 24hr/wk). I had all the time to spend with family and friends etc... but what I was doing was not my calling. I gained acceptance in med school in my 30s as well and also had doubt after the acceptance. Now as a PGY2, I don't regret my decision one bit. The job is not easy but I am happier going to work than I was previously even if I am working over 60+ hrs/wk most of the time.

As far as salary, not sure what the landscape everywhere in the country is, but I am already getting hospitalist job offers with salary ranging from 250-300k/yr (7 days on/off).

 

[wamcp]

You need to factor all the possible risks to your career change. Namely, the risk of healthcare legislation that changes reimbursement such that a 40 hour average workweek as a hospitalist would only give you, say, 120K or 150K income instead of 300K

If that happened, would that fill you with too much regret or would you still be happy you're doing what you 'love'?

If that didn't happen, I can you safely say you can greatly exceed 300K income a year if you wished.
In 2019, I made 547K of W2 income from lots of moonlighting (about 2700 hours total worked)

 

[pharmacist.throwaway]

You need to factor all the possible risks to your career change. Namely, the risk of healthcare legislation that changes reimbursement such that a 40 hour average workweek as a hospitalist would only give you, say, 120K or 150K income instead of 300K

If that happened, would that fill you with too much regret or would you still be happy you're doing what you 'love'?

If that didn't happen, I can you safely say you can greatly exceed 300K income a year if you wished.
In 2019, I made 547K of W2 income from lots of moonlighting (about 2700 hours total worked)

Safe to say that if a hospitalist salary drops to 120 k than a pharmacists would drop to 60 k. But years missed in investing would be a concern I suppose. I made 140 k last year and worked 2600 hours albeit from an extremely stress free job.

 

[xoggyux]

My friend, only you and you alone, with the input of your family, can make this sort of decision. Asking in a forum is only going to serve to confuse yourself.
The two big things to consider are would you love this job so much that it is worth putting of ~7-10 years of your life ALMOST in a hold so you can do this for the rest of your career. And for this "question" only you have the answer.
The other question is if it makes financial sense. Then answer is almost always "no with a but". What do I mean? If you were to reduce your current lifestyle to the kind of lifestyle you would have as a medical student and as a resident for the next 7-10 years and save-> invest the remainder of your salary (and this includes working overtime up to 70-80h per week, as you would regularly do as a resident) I am sure you would end up accumulating enough wealth that it could likely take a decade or two of hard work as a doctor just to catch up, let alone come ahead significantly to justify the risk and hard work. This comparison has been addressed on multiple posts and videos, there is one comparing doctor vs ups drivers and doctors vs plumbers. I am sure you can easily break the 100k mark and you could potentially have a 150k income if not higher by the time you would be graduating from residency.

I am not saying this to discourage you at all. I am just suggesting that if you were to consider this, the right state of mind is not "I am going to do this because I'll end up making more" the right state of mind should be "I am going to do this because I rather do this for the next 30-40 years" whether you end up making extra $$ is a bonus. You might, in fact, end up behind economically under certain scenarios.

Now, assuming that you would go this way. This is the way I'd prefer to do it.
1.- First and foremost, your family is supportive and they REALLY understand what it means. It means reducing the standard of living, it means you will be away for longer periods of time, it might mean your partner gets a job or adds some extra overtime on top of whatever job she has.
2.- You pay cash for med school (e.i you got savings, or you work part-time a few hours to pay it off).
3.- Once you graduate from residency you continue to live at the same standard of living for a couple of years until you catch up with whatever savings you expected to have at that point should you have continued to be a pharmacists (e.g. if you took 200k to pay for medschool and you were saving at a rate of 20k per year and took you 7 years, you would want to pay yourself back those 200k and 7x20k =~340k).

 

[DrSnips]

As others have mentioned, you should only pursue the MD if you have a passion for medicine that is much greater than your passion for being a pharmacist.

As for being a hospitalist:

1) 7 on and 7 off is becoming less popular. There are a numerous schedules possible for hospitalists, some better for family life than others, so always ask future coworkers about the hours before accepting any job
2) A hospitalist making > 300k / yr is possible, but it will heavily depend on where you are willing to work, how many shifts, and the bonus structure
3) Am I happy being a hospitalist? Yes, but that's N=1. I can't tell you if you'll enjoy it. There is a lot of social work stuff to deal with that turns off many people, but honestly I think with time I am finding the SW problems less objectionable. I see it as just another part of helping the patient. There are enough "cool cases" to keep me interested (caveat, I work at a tertiary care hospital).

 

[pharmacist.throwaway]

As others have mentioned, you should only pursue the MD if you have a passion for medicine that is much greater than your passion for being a pharmacist.

As for being a hospitalist:

1) 7 on and 7 off is becoming less popular. There are a numerous schedules possible for hospitalists, some better for family life than others, so always ask future coworkers about the hours before accepting any job
2) A hospitalist making > 300k / yr is possible, but it will heavily depend on where you are willing to work, how many shifts, and the bonus structure
3) Am I happy being a hospitalist? Yes, but that's N=1. I can't tell you if you'll enjoy it. There is a lot of social work stuff to deal with that turns off many people, but honestly I think with time I am finding the SW problems less objectionable. I see it as just another part of helping the patient. There are enough "cool cases" to keep me interested (caveat, I work at a tertiary care hospital).

Thank you for your reply. Yes, my passion for medicine is definitely much much greater than my passion for pharmacy. In fact, my passion for pharmacy is non existent. The only reason I do have second thoughts at times is to see if I should continue pharmacy JUST for the money and the opportunity cost, though the thought of spending the next 30 years in a field I am not passionate about, JUST for the money, in a field where if I get laid off would be tough to find another opportunity, is also terrifying !

 

[rokshana]

Thank you for your reply. Yes, my passion for medicine is definitely much much greater than my passion for pharmacy. In fact, my passion for pharmacy is non existent. The only reason I do have second thoughts at times is to see if I should continue pharmacy JUST for the money and the opportunity cost, though the thought of spending the next 30 years in a field I am not passionate about, JUST for the money, in a field where if I get laid off would be tough to find another opportunity, is also terrifying !

Then go to medical school...it will be worth it.

 

[wamcp]

Thank you for your reply. Yes, my passion for medicine is definitely much much greater than my passion for pharmacy. In fact, my passion for pharmacy is non existent. The only reason I do have second thoughts at times is to see if I should continue pharmacy JUST for the money and the opportunity cost, though the thought of spending the next 30 years in a field I am not passionate about, JUST for the money, in a field where if I get laid off would be tough to find another opportunity, is also terrifying !

is your med school acceptance a top tier school?

step 1 is now pass fail only so a prestigious school will be even more heavily in your advantage. The stress of matching what you want is like 10% of those in low tier schools now.

 

[rokshana]

is your med school acceptance a top tier school?

step 1 is now pass fail only so a prestigious school will be even more heavily in your advantage. The stress of matching what you want is like 10% of those in low tier schools now.

That conjecture at best...we have no idea what step 1 becoming p/f will be...my own take is that ck is now going to be the more stressed exam for residency selection.

IM has historically put more emphasis on CK anyway, so probably won’t have as much of an impact as it will for lore competitive specialties that use step 1 as a filter.

 

[braineddetermined]

You can also sub specialize in A/I or endo or another life friendly subspecialty. In the long run being a hospitalist will be hard to keep.

If you like medicine, do it!!

 

[cookiegrub]

one thing I never did right looking back at my prior career is seeing ways to branch out: consulting, R&D, other short term degree like MPH/MBA/even fully funded PhD for clinicians like you. I can't imagine going through medicine till your 40s...not trying to discourage you but I really want to be your friend when I say that you need to explore your options. This is such a long road and even people in their 20s are getting pummeled through the process. I know pharmacy schools are pumping grads left and right without care for their placement but do seek options and make decisions that don't screw up your family life and your life. Sometimes...you really need to be practical provided how much time we all have. We all make sacrifices when we sign up for medicine but know that there are compromises even when you go into medicine. Nothing is sure thing in terms of specialty if you think having the pharm degree gives you the advantage to be the school valedictorion/dermatologist...just know the road only gets tougher not easier.