Pedo vs OMFS

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Kavity

Kavity

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It's almost time for residency apps, and after rotating through peds and OMFS, I feel extremely torn. I really liked both specialties for completely different reasons, but I don't really have any info on either as far as admissions stats go.

Does anyone have any info about requirements/which is more competitive? I know my class rank isn't so hot right now, just want to get a feel for where I stand in terms of chances of getting into either.
Thanks in advance! :)
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OMFS is more competitive, it is generally suggested to be in the top 10 but the 20th percentile does not preclude you. You also need to take the CBSE to apply for it. It is similar to Step 1 of the medical boards.
 
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ncide said:
OMFS is more competitive, it is generally suggested to be in the top 10 but the 20th percentile does not preclude you. You also need to take the CBSE to apply for it. It is similar to Step 1 of the medical boards.
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Currently top 25% with a ton of research, leadership, and extracurriculars (I had a lot of personal things going on in my first year, so I kicked it into high gear after that. Hoping to keep climbing the ranks. :)). I've done a few externships in peds and I shadow a pedodontist on weekends too, but nothing in OMFS yet, as I came up with the idea to apply to OMFS programs pretty recently.
Do you think I'd be out of the running, or still have a shot?
 
Kavity said:
Currently top 25% with a ton of research, leadership, and extracurriculars (I had a lot of personal things going on in my first year, so I kicked it into high gear after that. Hoping to keep climbing the ranks. :)). I've done a few externships in peds and I shadow a pedodontist on weekends too, but nothing in OMFS yet, as I came up with the idea to apply to OMFS programs pretty recently.
Do you think I'd be out of the running, or still have a shot?
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At my school they favor people in the top 10 but consider people in the top 20. They don't consider applicants beyond that. A good CBSE score will help offset rank a bit. Class rank and CBSE are what get you into OMFS, the other things are not as important.
 
Don't make this choice based on what you think you're able to get into, make it based on how you want to spend the next 30 years of your career.
 
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Kavity said:
It's almost time for residency apps, and after rotating through peds and OMFS, I feel extremely torn. I really liked both specialties for completely different reasons, but I don't really have any info on either as far as admissions stats go.

Does anyone have any info about requirements/which is more competitive? I know my class rank isn't so hot right now, just want to get a feel for where I stand in terms of chances of getting into either.
Thanks in advance! :)
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I repeat please please do what you like. Do you understand that pedo you deal with helicopter moms all day long, need 100 staff members that all run and talk in baby talk, you have to talk baby talk all day. Do you get that for 30 years? Do it if you truely like it. If you just say meh whatever money... you are going to be miserable. I hate pedo. I don’t care if I got a full ride free and make double what I make now. Hell no.

Please make your decision based on your true interests. Out of all the specialities, I think you truely have to love pedo to do it. Everything else endo omfs perio you can sorta like it as a job and make good money but you don’t have to love it.
 
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Maybe try doing an externship. I kind of ruled out of OMFS after an externship because of the residency lifestyle...
 
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vk223 said:
Maybe try doing an externship. I kind of ruled out of OMFS after an externship because of the residency lifestyle...
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But I hear so many pre-dents/dental students say the 500k income is worth it. I guess it wasn't for you. It wasn't for me either.
 
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Income potential is good no matter what speciality you choose. Though OMFS income may be good, it is a huge sacrifice albeit with lots of reward. But Pedo is no cake walk having to deal with a high volume patient load and lots of crying kids. That’s would put me off from Pedo.
 
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Rainee said:
But I hear so many pre-dents/dental students say the 500k income is worth it. I guess it wasn't for you. It wasn't for me either.
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People can make the same argument against dental school. We go to 4 more years of schooling instead of "enjoying 20s" for a better income and/or better lifestyle, but some people would think that's stupid (especially given the debt load of most dental schools).

In regards to the opportunity cost, 4 years for double+ income on average for the rest of your career (anywhere from 20-30+ years) seems like a no brainer to me. It's why orthopaedic surgery and ENT are competitive despite a tough residency as opposed to primary care. Yes there is always a PCP who may be doing better than a speecialist, but they are the exception, not the norm.
 
free99 said:
Don't make this choice based on what you think you're able to get into, make it based on how you want to spend the next 30 years of your career.
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I would honestly love to do both, but that would be a long process lol.
 
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Rainee said:
I repeat please please do what you like. Do you understand that pedo you deal with helicopter moms all day long, need 100 staff members that all run and talk in baby talk, you have to talk baby talk all day. Do you get that for 30 years? Do it if you truely like it. If you just say meh whatever money... you are going to be miserable. I hate pedo. I don’t care if I got a full ride free and make double what I make now. Hell no.

Please make your decision based on your true interests. Out of all the specialities, I think you truely have to love pedo to do it. Everything else endo omfs perio you can sorta like it as a job and make good money but you don’t have to love it.
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I honestly love both for extremely different reasons. I'm not asking who makes more money, I'm asking if I have a shot with my stats, or if I should direct my passion towards one over the other (or neither) if I genuinely don't have a shot.
 
Medin2017 said:
People can make the same argument against dental school. We go to 4 more years of schooling instead of "enjoying 20s" for a better income and/or better lifestyle, but some people would think that's stupid (especially given the debt load of most dental schools).

In regards to the opportunity cost, 4 years for double+ income on average for the rest of your career (anywhere from 20-30+ years) seems like a no brainer to me. It's why orthopaedic surgery and ENT are competitive despite a tough residency as opposed to primary care. Yes there is always a PCP who may be doing better than a speecialist, but they are the exception, not the norm.
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I was waiting for medin2017 to show up lmfao
 
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Medin2017 said:
People can make the same argument against dental school. We go to 4 more years of schooling instead of "enjoying 20s" for a better income and/or better lifestyle, but some people would think that's stupid (especially given the debt load of most dental schools).

In regards to the opportunity cost, 4 years for double+ income on average for the rest of your career (anywhere from 20-30+ years) seems like a no brainer to me. It's why orthopaedic surgery and ENT are competitive despite a tough residency as opposed to primary care. Yes there is always a PCP who may be doing better than a speecialist, but they are the exception, not the norm.
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For me, it wouldn't be a matter of "is x amount of years worth it?" I just don't know where I stand in terms of stats for both peds and OMFS.
 
Kavity said:
For me, it wouldn't be a matter of "is x amount of years worth it?" I just don't know where I stand in terms of stats for both peds and OMFS.
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A good OMFS applicant isn't just a number. Sure, numbers will preclude you from a number of interviews but a good applicant and future resident should be highly motivated (reading even when not instructed to; instead they read out of pure interest), ethical (attendings place a great amount of trust on the resident to operate under their supervision and care for their patients; so if you make a mistake, you have to take responsibility and not deflect, or worse, lie), hard working (this is a given for any specialty but even more so in OMFS where the hours are long and the length of training is one of the longest), and very importantly a team player (there will be a small core group of residents who you work with >12 hours/day for 4-6 years; if you cannot get along well with others and don't have a personality of looking out and caring for one another, you will not be a good candidate for OMFS).

To answer your question, top 25% is okay, not great but not terrible either. One of the most important quality is to show genuine interest and dedication to your pursuit for OMFS which you would show by spending a great deal of time at your home program (meeting with attendings regularly, attending meetings, helping out, doing research), externships (at least 3), and taking the CBSE which you will be studying for every free and waking moment of your day (this test will change your perspective of how difficult a test can be; it will make every test in dental school look like a joke). To give you an idea of where someone with your unsettled aspiration stands in the whole process, I can tell you that I don't know of a single OMFS resident who was deciding between Peds and OMFS. They are vastly different professions with totally different scope of practice.
 
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Kavity said:
For me, it wouldn't be a matter of "is x amount of years worth it?" I just don't know where I stand in terms of stats for both peds and OMFS.
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I wouldn't sweat 25% if you crush the cbse. Big if but it's been done by people on this forum (meh rank good cbse).
 
Rainee said:
Love hate relationship Medin. I am rooting for you though =)
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Same to you rainee. I envy your success and respect you being a standout among your peers. I would 100% try to pull that off if I had the confidence but I don't
 
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Instead of asking about your prospects here, where everyone is strictly speculative about your chances, why not sit down with your D school people and ask them. The PD's for Pedo and OMFS will speak frankly to you if you are up front, sincere and honest with them. IMHO, very few of the individuals on this site are PD's, have read a PASS application, or have ever admitted a resident to a program. No offense to any one or their opinions, just how I see it.
 
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setdoc7 said:
Instead of asking about your prospects here, where everyone is strictly speculative about your chances, why not sit down with your D school people and ask them. The PD's for Pedo and OMFS will speak frankly to you if you are up front, sincere and honest with them. IMHO, very few of the individuals on this site are PD's, have read a PASS application, or have ever admitted a resident to a program. No offense to any one or their opinions, just how I see it.
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Much appreciated! I've spoken with a few people, but nobody gave me a straight answer.
 
Kavity said:
Much appreciated! I've spoken with a few people, but nobody gave me a straight answer.
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Unfortunately, it’s hard to get a straight answer because everyone has different reasons for choosing a speciality. Spend more time in the specialty clinics that somewhat interest you and I’m sure it’ll click for you.
 
Kavity said:
Much appreciated! I've spoken with a few people, but nobody gave me a straight answer.
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You can't get a straight answer because it is not a straight answer. No one can guarantee you acceptance to any programs, they can only tell you if you are competitive.
Specifically for OMS programs that have only 1-3 positions per year. They have not interviewed any of their applicants, how would they know they will like you more than others, or vice versa?
Without a CBSE score, it is even harder to evaluate your application. It's like a pre-dental student asking what their chances of being admitted to dental school are without a DAT score.
I can tell you that a top 25% rank will not disqualify you from getting into an OMS residency, as I have seen people with those class rankings get in.
 
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PhansterZ said:
You can't get a straight answer because it is not a straight answer. No one can guarantee you acceptance to any programs, they can only tell you if you are competitive.
Specifically for OMS programs that have only 1-3 positions per year. They have not interviewed any of their applicants, how would they know they will like you more than others, or vice versa?
Without a CBSE score, it is even harder to evaluate your application. It's like a pre-dental student asking what their chances of being admitted to dental school are without a DAT score.
I can tell you that a top 25% rank will not disqualify you from getting into an OMS residency, as I have seen people with those class rankings get in.
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I appreciate the input. I was mainly wondering about the disqualification part, so that pretty much answers my question.
Thanks!
 
Incoming D1....on the past OMFS threads people in the 40-30% class rank with a 60+ CBSE score have matched. Granted they were 6 year residencies instead of 4 year.
 
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CBSE CBSE CBSE CBSE CBSE and research in the field. A CBSE score above 85 and research in OMFS almost guarantees you will get accepted somewhere in a 6 year or a 4 year OMFS program.
 
pikaboo said:
CBSE CBSE CBSE CBSE CBSE and research in the field. A CBSE score above 85 and research in OMFS almost guarantees you will get accepted somewhere in a 6 year or a 4 year OMFS program.
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85? Good luck :laugh:
 
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pikaboo said:
CBSE CBSE CBSE CBSE CBSE and research in the field. A CBSE score above 85 and research in OMFS almost guarantees you will get accepted somewhere in a 6 year or a 4 year OMFS program.
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Research isn’t a very big part of many programs criterias for interview invite. An 85 will place you in the top 10-20 of all applicants. With 220+ spots available, I agree that it is a safe score. Although, people with 80+ have got unmatched if they don’t interview well.
 
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Posts in these forums are all based on conjecture, small N, anecdoctal experience etc.

Do your homework - Ingratiate yourself with your home school OMFS program director (grounded in humility of course with no brown nosing), pick an activity that sets you apart from everyone else (more than just a summer research fellowship, perhaps a social service scholar program/fellowship (www.schweitzerfellowship.org/), ...). Never had to take this CBSE, however went through all 3 parts of USMLE. Start early, don't go with herd mentality. Study on your own, develop your own study program that is healthily balanced with your school schedule.

one thing I found... when you want something highly competitive, be a gunner in hiding. Be independent, don't get caught up with what everyone else is doing, throw "statistics" out the window. Have no idea who said this but its pretty spot on - "It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation." Spent many nights alone in a library during college, dental, and med school plotting my own course. In hindsight, being a lone wolf pays off.
 
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PhansterZ said:
Research isn’t a very big part of many programs criterias for interview invite. An 85 will place you in the top 10-20 of all applicants. With 220+ spots available, I agree that it is a safe score. Although, people with 80+ have got unmatched if they don’t interview well.
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So the most important factor is the CBSE score, right ?
 
So what if someone is below average and does well on cbse? Could he or she do internships and possibly match? Or do they not even let you intern?


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bilbany12 said:
What is the rigor of a pedo residency compared to OMS? In terms of clinical hours required/week, academia hours required/week, etc.
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There is no comparison. OMS is 2-3 times as long and significantly more rigorous.
 
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You have gotten a lot of good comments on your thread so far, I would go ahead and tell you that I think doing at least a couple externships in OMFS would really be beneficial to you. I have done a few so far myself, even though they were only a week long, it gave me a small piece to what the residents do on a weekly basis (lifestyle, call schedule, workload, etc). I think it would behoove you to do an externship (plus I think you need to do at least 2-3 to be competitive to apply). Good luck with everything!
PM
 
schmoob said:
There is no comparison. OMS is 2-3 times as long and significantly more rigorous.
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An oral surgeon I shadowed at a Navy base was quasi joking (but not) when he said "I don't call participants in other residencies 'residents', they're more of 'interns.'"

He's not wrong.
 
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