Paying down the debt...

[Off2Oz]

Hey everyone,

How are all the North Americans in Australia coping with the huge debt they finish up with? My current career won't be much use to me after such a change in direction in addition to the 4 years of not practicing. I'd like to think that I'll be able to live after finishing my education (again).

In any case, is it "get residency or die" as some seem to put it on these boards, or does everyone generally fare well at least living while paying off their mortgage-sized credit lines/loans?

I'm looking for options...

Cheers,
M.

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[Winged Scapula]

I don't know if we have any grads who have finished residency here who frequent these boards. Most people defer or qualify for financial hardship during residency and don't start paying back until after they are done with their training. With the exception of the oft-mentioned physician who makes $50K per year (whenever this topic is brought up), most will make more than enough to pay off and still live a good lifestyle.

 

[spherical]

Hey everyone,

How are all the North Americans in Australia coping with the huge debt they finish up with? My current career won't be much use to me after such a change in direction in addition to the 4 years of not practicing. I'd like to think that I'll be able to live after finishing my education (again).

In any case, is it "get residency or die" as some seem to put it on these boards, or does everyone generally fare well at least living while paying off their mortgage-sized credit lines/loans?

I'm looking for options...

Cheers,
M.

All sorts of options. A couple:

1. Like many of your peers, you can disappear into the outback. There, you can become a hospitalist -- a permanent intern with no further access to training. And hope creditors never find you. You can forget the US exists. Note: this is becoming an increasingly popular scenario so lenders may get smart.

2. I know one person who dropped out of a 4 year Australian program after 2 years (found it "boring" and thought it would not lead anywhere worthwhile) and enrolled in a European MBA program. This person (not an American) has remerged in the United States where she/he is employed by a major consulting firm, sits on the boards of some smaller companies, and serves as a "medical advisor" to others. This person uses the title "Dr." and claims to have an "MD" from the Australian school in question. She/he has published numerous articles where her/his name appears followed by "MD". A scam artist. "The bigger the scam the better the scammer." Do you think you could pull it off?

 

[markdc]

If you are going to default on a loan then why not just declare bankruptcy? Defaulting screws your credit rating and you still owe the money to the creditors. Bankruptcy screws your credit rating but in the end you may be able to return to the US and not owe the creditors. (Although they can take a portion of your earnings for a while during the process). That would mean you would have to pay back at least a portion of the debt. The creditors still come out more ahead than if you purely default and you come out more ahead because you have done it the legal way. I think there is more to it than that though so you'll have to look into the details. I am sure the laws vary depending on the state or province you are from...

All sorts of options. A couple:

1. Like many of your peers, you can disappear into the outback. There, you can become a hospitalist -- a permanent intern with no further access to training. And hope creditors never find you. You can forget the US exists. Note: this is becoming an increasingly popular scenario so lenders may get smart.

2. I know one person who dropped out of a 4 year Australian program after 2 years (found it "boring" and thought it would not lead anywhere worthwhile) and enrolled in a European MBA program. This person (not an American) has remerged in the United States where she/he is employed by a major consulting firm, sits on the boards of some smaller companies, and serves as a "medical advisor" to others. This person uses the title "Dr." and claims to have an "MD" from the Australian school in question. She/he has published numerous articles where her/his name appears followed by "MD". A scam artist. "The bigger the scam the better the scammer." Do you think you could pull it off?

 

[spherical]

If you are going to default on a loan then why not just declare bankruptcy? Defaulting screws your credit rating and you still owe the money to the creditors. Bankruptcy screws your credit rating but in the end you may be able to return to the US and not owe the creditors.

OK, you can declare backruptcy and then disappear into the outback for as long as they will have you. Then, if you get kicked out, you will be in a better position then if you simply defaulted.

Debt financing this sort of thing would make me really nervous the whole time I was in Australia. Regardless of how you finance this, you are going to come to the realization at some point that you are not following a parallel path to students in the US or at US equivalent schools (ie. Caribbean feeder schools).

 

[craig_rt]

2. I know one person who dropped out of a 4 year Australian program after 2 years (found it "boring" and thought it would not lead anywhere worthwhile) and enrolled in a European MBA program. This person (not an American) has remerged in the United States where she/he is employed by a major consulting firm, sits on the boards of some smaller companies, and serves as a "medical advisor" to others. This person uses the title "Dr." and claims to have an "MD" from the Australian school in question. She/he has published numerous articles where her/his name appears followed by "MD". A scam artist. "The bigger the scam the better the scammer." Do you think you could pull it off?

Just as a matter of interest, Australian universities do not graduate you with an MD. Here you get an MBBS (bachelor of medicine and bachelor or surgery, or a B. Med at at least one university). Here an MD is a step above a PhD, and only conferred on those who have contributed greatly to the field over many years. So anyone claiming to have an MD from an Australian school when they have not done anything subsequent is a really dodgy scammer who didn't even look into their own claims.

Craig

 

[spherical]

OK, this person left after the second year. Just prior to leaving, he published a paper with a professor of general practice. The student was the main author and the professor was listed second. The student followed his name with "MBA". This professor happens to be a flag-flying homosexual -- the type that you might expect to wear a "Hi, my name is --- and I'm gay" T shirt. He had a somewhat close relationship with this student. The student had claimed that he was being hit on and was disgusted by it. But now that he appears the ultimate scammer, it is hard to know what the nature of the relationship was. Interestingly, this professor knew full well that the student had recently been accepted into an MBA program but was yet to matriculate. Apparently, this professor had no trouble with such fraud, including the paper in his own CV.

It is often acceptable to use "MD" in place of "MBBS" when you are practicing in the US. (This guy is not practicing medicine, though. He's a consultant.) When you are listing your university and degree, I think it is more correct to use MBBS. Anyway, this guy doesn't have a medical degree.

Just as a matter of interest, Australian universities do not graduate you with an MD. Here you get an MBBS (bachelor of medicine and bachelor or surgery, or a B. Med at at least one university). Here an MD is a step above a PhD, and only conferred on those who have contributed greatly to the field over many years. So anyone claiming to have an MD from an Australian school when they have not done anything subsequent is a really dodgy scammer who didn't even look into their own claims.

Craig

 

[driedcaribou]

stuff.

Do you ever write anything coherent and constructive?

And when will you stop making alternate accounts?

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I don't know how your US credit history works in Australia, but companies can go after you in Australia without much difficulty. Student loans are offered for US students wishing to study in the UK, Australia, and Ireland. The banks in the US aren't stupid and won't take unnecessary risks, so I am assuming they have their ways to go after you even if you don't return to the US. The best advice is to buckle down and study hard for your USMLE or whatever. I'm sure with a decent USMLE score you should get at least a primary care residency. The cost of four years of study at an Australian medical school will range from $160-175,000 US(assuming A$1=$.80US) which is substantial, however a decent primary care physician in the US earns about that much, and probably a bit more with overtime or in an area of need. I believe its also possible to work in the UK as a GP if you are interested in living in Europe.
I spoke with an accountant about working in Australia, if you work there and remain a US citizen you will be responsible for both US and Australian taxes. You definitely cannot ignore the potential financial burden that this endeavor will entail. I don't think its incredibly difficult to return to the US from Australia, there are many physicians in the US from far less technologically advanced countries who are practicing medicine in virtually every specialty.