Pathway to pulm/CC for peds and adults?

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kellen914

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Hello SDN, hope all is well, and feel free to move this if it's in a bad location..

I'm interested in pulm/CC currently, but recently did peds, and enjoyed that as well. I was wondering what would be the pathway to do both adult and peds in pulm/CC?

If I got certified in IM then did pulm cc would I be able to deal with kids? (Above neonates)

Do you have to do a pulm/cc fellowships specific for adult and peds, or can you do an IM/peds residency followed with a general pulm/cc specialty?

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I think in order to do a peds CCM fellowship you need to have gone through a pediatric residency first. If I'm not mistaken, aside from med/peds trained internists, no one in Internal Medicine or its subspecialties treat pediatric patients.

If you do 4 years of med/peds, 2 years of adult CCM, and 3 years of peds CCM, you could do it. But I can't see the logistic reality of that pathway.

Also, I think in peds, pulm and CCM are separated. I've met Peds Anesthesia/CCM attendings before, but I think now that pathway is also limited to those who have also done a pediatric residency.
 
Hello SDN, hope all is well, and feel free to move this if it's in a bad location..

I'm interested in pulm/CC currently, but recently did peds, and enjoyed that as well. I was wondering what would be the pathway to do both adult and peds in pulm/CC?

If I got certified in IM then did pulm cc would I be able to deal with kids? (Above neonates)

Do you have to do a pulm/cc fellowships specific for adult and peds, or can you do an IM/peds residency followed with a general pulm/cc specialty?

Pediatric Critical Care and Peds Pulmonary are separate fellowships, and to be honest, have significantly different focuses and career paths. Peds Pulm does a lot more CF/Asthma/BPD with a strong outpatient component. Peds CCM is entirely centered in the PICU and with the exception of some very rare circumstances, peds intensivists do zero outpatient clinic (although, it's likely that in the future, follow up clinics will be created similar to the manner in which Neonatologists have follow up 'high risk newborn' clinics).

There are some much older attendings spread about the country who are dual boarded in Peds CCM and Peds Pulm, but they are rare, and today's current climate would require a five year combined fellowship in the two. People who do the hiring would likely expect that if you completed those fellowships that you would have an interest in the care of children who are trach/ventilator dependent on long term home ventilation.

If you really prefer taking care of kids, then the question becomes do you prefer taking care of ICU problems (vents, sepsis, status epilepticus, fever and neutropenia in oncology patients, trauma, DKA, etc) or did you like the outpatient aspects of adult pulmonary?

Most people who go into fellowship from med/peds do one or the other, particularly for Critical Care. In other subspecialties, there is some precedent for combined fellowships, with the idea that you would then have specialized skills for managing the transition from pediatric subspecialty care to adult subspecialty care - ie the for the 18 y/o with Cystic Fibrosis, or the patient with congenital heart disease who has survived to adulthood. However getting these combined fellowships, even in these more logical fields, requires some negotiation with medical center and both departments which may not be as straightforward as one would hope (most departments of pediatrics and internal medicine don't have a history of working together - even med/peds programs are often the red headed stepchildren of both).

The final piece of the puzzle is getting a job and finding someone who will actually pay you to both if you manage to make it through the training pitfalls. Again, you would be an anomaly and there would be a fair amount of question of what to do with you. If you wanted to stay in academic medicine, then you'd likely be repeating the same battles you fought in fellowship. Private practice is an option, but there are far, far, far, far, far, far fewer private practice PICU's than there are adult ICU's, and there's even less collaboration between medicine and pediatrics.
 
Pediatric Critical Care and Peds Pulmonary are separate fellowships, and to be honest, have significantly different focuses and career paths. Peds Pulm does a lot more CF/Asthma/BPD with a strong outpatient component. Peds CCM is entirely centered in the PICU and with the exception of some very rare circumstances, peds intensivists do zero outpatient clinic (although, it's likely that in the future, follow up clinics will be created similar to the manner in which Neonatologists have follow up 'high risk newborn' clinics).

There are some much older attendings spread about the country who are dual boarded in Peds CCM and Peds Pulm, but they are rare, and today's current climate would require a five year combined fellowship in the two. People who do the hiring would likely expect that if you completed those fellowships that you would have an interest in the care of children who are trach/ventilator dependent on long term home ventilation.

If you really prefer taking care of kids, then the question becomes do you prefer taking care of ICU problems (vents, sepsis, status epilepticus, fever and neutropenia in oncology patients, trauma, DKA, etc) or did you like the outpatient aspects of adult pulmonary?

Most people who go into fellowship from med/peds do one or the other, particularly for Critical Care. In other subspecialties, there is some precedent for combined fellowships, with the idea that you would then have specialized skills for managing the transition from pediatric subspecialty care to adult subspecialty care - ie the for the 18 y/o with Cystic Fibrosis, or the patient with congenital heart disease who has survived to adulthood. However getting these combined fellowships, even in these more logical fields, requires some negotiation with medical center and both departments which may not be as straightforward as one would hope (most departments of pediatrics and internal medicine don't have a history of working together - even med/peds programs are often the red headed stepchildren of both).

The final piece of the puzzle is getting a job and finding someone who will actually pay you to both if you manage to make it through the training pitfalls. Again, you would be an anomaly and there would be a fair amount of question of what to do with you. If you wanted to stay in academic medicine, then you'd likely be repeating the same battles you fought in fellowship. Private practice is an option, but there are far, far, far, far, far, far fewer private practice PICU's than there are adult ICU's, and there's even less collaboration between medicine and pediatrics.


Thanks for the insight. I see myself leaning more towards the Critical care aspect of the adult Pulm/CC pathway, so maybe if I end up liking kids more I should do Peds CC. Now what I bolded above, what are the "battles" you are referring to in academic medicine?
 
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