PA's vs DO/MD

[gaffer]

Hey everyone,
I don't know if this has been visited before, but with my lack of acceptance continuing and more and more rejections coming in....i'm starting to think more and more about other options.

Now for starters, I know PA's and nurses in general have more time with patients...but other then that I'm not entirely sure how big the difference is.
It seems to me from what I've seen is that doctors get to 'see' their pt, while PA's and nurses get to 'visit' their pt.


any help or referrals would be very helpful.
thanx
gaf

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[deleted6669]

In most settings pa's are just as busy as their md/do colleagues so don't be fooled by this common myth. also in regards to your current lack of acceptances, chances are that if for whatever reason you are not getting md/do acceptances, you probably wouldn't get into pa programs either unless you have a significant amount of professional prior medical experience. sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but pa school admissions are very competitive as well. a local program near me receives over 1000 applications for 100 interviews for 30 spots.for more info about the pa profession check out www.aapa.org
this is the homepage of our professional organization. if you really want to be a doc, work on gpa/mcat, etc again and reapply. if you go to pa school and find you still want to be a doc, it's a long road back. that's where I am now. good luck.

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

I was just curious, what kind of stats do you need to get into a PA program anyway?

 

[bw07]

I don't know what your profile is like so I couldn't really give an opinion as to how successful you'd be in reapplying. If going PA is your decision though, I don't think you'll have much of a problem getting in. I know someone who is in a PA program right now nearby (in illinois) and they interviewed almost everyone who applied and took a majortiy of those interviewed. You need the GRE along with the usual premed reqs. Yes, they want clinical experience, which you probably have some amount of and you could easily acquire more.

 

[Elysium]

Hey Gaffer (were you a film gaffer? If so, let's talk!)

What's the story with your MCAT, GPA, health care experience, interesting life story anecdote, etc? I think that may be the first thing to consider in why you (so far) haven't been doing well in this application cycle.

2nd, my best friend is a PA. She got her degree at UTMB in Galveston, TX. It's a 3 year Masters with a year of clinical rotations, then you need to pass the boards. The cool thing about being a PA is that you don't have to "specialize" per se. You can go from being a Surgery PA to an OB/Gyn PA and it's not a big deal. Also, you have no malpractice insurance. Salary is quite good, around $75,000 a year, with a great deal of autonomy. You would be able to write Rx for antibotics, etc (no narcotics, hynotics, or Valium, Xanax, etc) and get a lot of patient contact. I think the PA's role will continue to expand in healthcare and more PA schools are being opened around the country. It is fairly competitive, so your grades should be decent.

It sounds like a great profession. Good luck.

 

[deleted6669]

ELYSIUM-in most states pa's now have full DEA schedule 2 prescribing authority(the same as md/do). some states are still schedule 3, but that still allows for meds like vicodin, but no morphine/percocet/demerol, etc.
pa's still need malpractice coverage, but most get it as a paid benefit.
quality and admissions standards of pa programs vary. the "easy" programs to get into typically do not grant a masters degree upon completion. there are still a few community college programs(scary) that grant only an a.s. degree. which will not let you practice in a lot of states. the standard is now at least a b.s. degree with 60% of programs now giving an m.s. and all programs required to grant an m.s. by 2008.

 

[Elysium]

Thanks for the clarification. You certainly know more about it than I do (having been a PA). I'm not sure what the law is in Texas, but I'm pretty sure PAs can't prescribe narcotics yet. That may change.

 

[deleted6669]

fyi- BELOW ARE THE OFFICIAL REGS STATE BY STATE.
TEXAS APPEARS TO HAVE THE WORST LAW IN THE COUNTRY AT PRESENT, ALTHOUGH SOME SITES IN THE STATE MAY VARY
Jurisdiction Rx
Status Restrictions Controlled Substances
Alabama Rx Formulary
Alaska Rx Sch. III-V
Arizona Rx Sch. II-III limited to 14-day supply with board prescribing certification
(72-hrs. without);

Sch.IV-V not more than 5 times in 6-month period per patient
Arkansas Rx Sch. III-V
California Rx PAs may write "drug orders" which, for the purposes of DEA registration, meet the federal definition of a prescription. Sch. II-V
Colorado Rx Sch. II-V
Connecticut Rx Sch. IV-V; Sch. II-III in hosp, LTC facilities, and some EDs
Delaware Rx Sch. II-V
District of Columbia Rx
Florida Rx Formulary of prohibited drugs
Georgia Rx Formulary Sch. III-V
Guam Rx Sch. III-V
Hawaii Rx Sch. III-V
Idaho Rx Sch. II-V
Illinois Rx Sch. III-V
Indiana
Iowa Rx Sch. III-V; Sch. II (except stimulants and depressants)
Kansas Rx Sch. II-V
Kentucky Rx
Louisiana
Maine Rx Sch. III-V (Board may approve Sch.II for individual PAs)
Maryland Rx Sch. II-V
Massachusetts Rx Sch. II-V
Michigan Rx Sch. III-V; Sch. II (7-day supply) as discharge meds
Minnesota Rx Formulary Sch. II-V
Mississippi Rx FORMULARY
Missouri Rx FORMULARY
Montana Rx Sch. II-V (Sch. II limited to 34-day supply)
Nebraska Rx Sch. II-V (Sch. II limited to 72-hr supply)
Nevada Rx Sch. II-V
New Hampshire Rx Sch. II-V
New Jersey Rx SCH II-V
New Mexico Rx Formulary Sch. II-V
New York Rx Sch. III-V
North Carolina Rx Sch. II-V (Sch. II-III limited to 30-day supply)
North Dakota Rx Sch. III-V
Ohio SCH II-V
Oklahoma Rx Formulary Sch. III-V
Oregon Rx Sch. III-V
Pennsylvania Rx Formulary Sch. III-V. Limited to 30-day supply unless for chronic condition
Rhode Island Rx Sch. II-V
South Carolina Rx Formulary Sch. V
South Dakota Rx Sch. II-V (Sch. II limited to 48-hr supply)
Tennessee Rx Sch. II-V
Texas Rx In specified practice sites
Utah Rx Sch. II-V
Vermont Rx Formulary Sch. II-V
Virginia Rx Sch. V ; Sch. IV as of 1/1/03
Washington Rx Sch. II-V
West Virginia Rx Formulary Sch. III-V (Sch. III limited to 72-hr supply)
Wisconsin Rx Sch. II-V
Wyoming Rx Sch. II-V

 

[gaffer]

alas, I am not a film gaffer per se...though I wish i was....part time DO/ part time working in the film industry....that would be the life!

My whole story is one of relatively poor grades yet a persistent and enthusiastic spirit. I know why I won't get in at some schools yet I am like the little pest that nags and nags. Anyway, getting back to the point: Thank you so much for all your input. I want to be a doctor to have that expertise, yet still I want to work with patients intimately.
As of now I graduate in june so i'm going to take the extra two pre-reqs for a PA program and may or may not need them...and in the same vein i still don't know if i'm going to immediately re-apply. This past year has really taken it's toll on me w/ school, mcat, and apps.

Do any of you know if PA's work more in group practices or private ones of their own?

thanx
gaf

 

[prettymean]

From what I heard, PAs', like Nurse Practioners, need to be under the supervision of M.D.s or D.O.s. So, PAs can't work independently.

 

[deleted6669]

A pa can own their own practice if they hire a supervisor. there are pa only groups out there that hire retired md's to sign their charts and make themselves available for consultation as required by state law. at most of these practices, the md never sees the patients. this is as close to "independent practice" as a pa can get

 

[PACtoDOC]

For a PA to hire a physician to supervise them is just crazy. If this isn't a conflct of interest I don't know what is. If you want to practice unsupervised medicine that badly, then go to medical school is what I say. There are plenty of PA's who are completely capable of doing this, and probably would never have a bad patient outcome, but it just isn't right.

 

[jhug]

my older bro is a pa, and i work with nurse practitioners-- so my respect for these two elements of medicine is very high. I, like someone else mentioned, think that these fields are only going to become more involved and influencial as time goes on. With that said i'll tell you why i didn't go the pa route. A family friend who is a derm told me med school is foolish because he has two pa's and gets to golf 3 days a week! i think what he meant by that is that pa's do pretty much the same as docs, only do two years (i guess 3 at some schools) of school, and can make somewhat comparable money as well. What i took from his comment is-- he'll always make more money as well always call the shots as far as pa income is concerned, and now has so much free time (b/c his pa's do all the work) to golf more. This was a huge turn-off for me as i started really getting serious about med school.