part-time, nonsurgical

[futurenjdoc]

lets say, theoretically, i have close to zero debt coming out of school due to fruitful investments and sheer luck.
lets also say, theoretically, that im a resident that has grown to hate the surgical aspect of podiatry.
is there any way a new grad can come out of school, work part time, not do surgery, and still support oneself?
my guess is a resounding no, considering the constant lowering of matriculants at DPM schools which makes me wonder about the value of the degree and the profession itself.
boredom and a wandering mind has led me to leave it to the negative echo chamber of the SDN message boards for answers.
thanks in advance

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[Shiyuan]

Look at FQHCs broski.

 

[Pronation]

I don’t know about part time but you can do well without doing any surgery.

 

[futurenjdoc]

thank you fellas.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Look at FQHCs broski.

I think that'd push anyone to suicide.

You'll do just fine without doing any surgery.

 

[underwood]

I’m a 3rd yr resident looking for work as well. Interesting thing is it’s easier to find jobs with minimal surgery that are paying well vs busy surgery jobs.

 

[Shiyuan]

I think that'd push anyone to suicide.

You'll do just fine without doing any surgery.

In some instances (inner city), I agree 100%. Look for suburban/rural FQHCs moreso.

 

[PointyNippers]

In some instances (inner city), I agree 100%. Look for suburban/rural FQHCs moreso.

Podiatrists have a ton of negotiating power at FQHCs, I've had pretty great offers from a few of them; especially rural ones. Since its a FQHC there's really not much personal liability on your end. It'll mostly be diabetic evals/chip n clip though, which is why I passed up on it

 

[dtrack22]

is there any way a new grad can come out of school, work part time, not do surgery, and still support oneself?

Honestly an associate job where you get a % of collections and just work as much or as little as you like is totally possible. If it’s a big enough group they may like that you don’t take up cases from the people who want them. Most clinics would also be happy to have you in the office generating money and not wasting time with low paying or no paying consults. The problem will be getting a fair shake when it comes to % of collections that makes it worth your time. Or finding a practice who doesn’t just kick you all the low paying insurance plans, and all of the nail care which will artificially lower the $ you collect. Imagine a morning of 10-15 nail patients where they collect $50 per patient and you get 30% of that. $180 before taxes isn’t worth your time. If you don’t need the money then you might not care, at first, but I would bet money that stuff like that will ultimately sour you to the job/practice and you’ll leave.

 

[Jummy Biffett]

The problem will be getting a fair shake when it comes to % of collections that makes it worth your time.

What do you all think is a reasonable % of collections to make as a PP associate?

 

[Pronation]

What do you all think is a reasonable % of collections to make as a PP associate?

39% of office collections, 60% of surgeries, DME, and peddling lotions and potions. Full benefits including health insurance, med mal, CME, 401k match, disability, and weekly electroconvulsive shock therapy.

 

[619]

lets say, theoretically, i have close to zero debt coming out of school due to fruitful investments and sheer luck.
lets also say, theoretically, that im a resident that has grown to hate the surgical aspect of podiatry.
is there any way a new grad can come out of school, work part time, not do surgery, and still support oneself?
my guess is a resounding no, considering the constant lowering of matriculants at DPM schools which makes me wonder about the value of the degree and the profession itself.
boredom and a wandering mind has led me to leave it to the negative echo chamber of the SDN message boards for answers.
thanks in advance

Answer is a resounding yes! You can make a very good income in podiatry with clinic procedures. Why do you think most senior docs give up surgery or do minimal surgery to focus on clinic. However to be successful in clinic, you have to be smart and diligent about it especially if you have control of your clinic schedules. What I mean is don't fill up your clinic schedule with diabetic nail care followups. You want to see mostly new patients for ingrown nail, warts, foot sprain, ankle sprain, MSK pathologies such heel pain, arthritis, tendonitis, fracture care etc.

You can absolutely succeed doing office procedures. For me in any given day, half of my patients are new. If I see 20 patient a day, about 9-12 are new patients. I try to see patients two to three times follow up and discharge. Even my few diabetic nail patients, I don't schedule them for 10 weeks. I tell them to call my office after 3 months when they need their nail care. I like to leave my schedule open for new patients and I am always surprised how it fills up fast. My schedule 2 weeks from today has about 7 follows but when the day comes, it gets up to 18 or 20. New patients call constantly and want to get in ASAP. I will be pissed if 2 weeks from today, I have like 20 follow-ups on my schedule. Where will the new patients fill in? To be clear I not trying to see 30-40 patients a day. My sweet spot is 20-22 patients a day and half of them are new patients.

I am saying this from a first hand experience. I have been an associate like everyone and now I own my practice and see everything. I will describe my practice as general podiatry practice. I am not trying to box myself into one aspect of foot and ankle. I see everything. I also have one full day for surgery where I do regular podiatry cases like bunions, hammertoes etc. I don't do any crazy big surgery. Most of my income come from office clinic procedures. Don't get me started on DME and wound grafts and how much it generates for a practice.

In the future when I am ready to hire an associate, I will make it clear to my associate that there is not much big surgeries to be done. It will mostly be clinic procedures and simple elective surgeries. I will be even happy to hire a non-surgical associate. My practice is in a middle class county with about 1M population just outside a major metro. I don't want the headache of charcot recon, IM nail, TAR, Pilon etc. That's the truth

 

[dtrack22]

What do you all think is a reasonable % of collections to make as a PP associate?

It’s a number you aren’t going to get at most practices but absolutely would if you were a rheumatologist, pediatrician, primary care provider, OBGYN, ortho, etc.

Are you getting a cut of DME in this hypothetical scenario or not? If that is profit for the owner(s) then the % should be higher, if it’s included in your % collections then it can be lower. No reason in either scenario you cant get or shouldn’t get 40% of collections even in a podiatry group.

 

[PointyNippers]

Answer is a resounding yes! You can make a very good income in podiatry with clinic procedures. Why do you think most senior docs give up surgery or do minimal surgery to focus on clinic. However to be successful in clinic, you have to be smart and diligent about it especially if you have control of your clinic schedules. What I mean is don't fill up your clinic schedule with diabetic nail care followups. You want to see mostly new patients for ingrown nail, warts, foot sprain, ankle sprain, MSK pathologies such heel pain, arthritis, tendonitis, fracture care etc.

You can absolutely succeed doing office procedures. For me in any given day, half of my patients are new. If I see 20 patient a day, about 9-12 are new patients. I try to see patients two to three times follow up and discharge. Even my few diabetic nail patients, I don't schedule them for 10 weeks. I tell them to call my office after 3 months when they need their nail care. I like to leave my schedule open for new patients and I am always surprised how it fills up fast. My schedule 2 weeks from today has about 7 follows but when the day comes, it gets up to 18 or 20. New patients call constantly and want to get in ASAP. I will be pissed if 2 weeks from today, I have like 20 follow-ups on my schedule. Where will the new patients fill in? To be clear I not trying to see 30-40 patients a day. My sweet spot is 20-22 patients a day and half of them are new patients.

I am saying this from a first hand experience. I have been an associate like everyone and now I own my practice and see everything. I will describe my practice as general podiatry practice. I am not trying to box myself into one aspect of foot and ankle. I see everything. I also have one full day for surgery where I do regular podiatry cases like bunions, hammertoes etc. I don't do any crazy big surgery. Most of my income come from office clinic procedures. Don't get me started on DME and wound grafts and how much it generates for a practice.

In the future when I am ready to hire an associate, I will make it clear to my associate that there is not much big surgeries to be done. It will mostly be clinic procedures and simple elective surgeries. I will be even happy to hire a non-surgical associate. My practice is in a middle class county with about 1M population just outside a major metro. I don't want the headache of charcot recon, IM nail, TAR, Pilon etc. That's the truth

Seconded.

Seeing new patients and cranking out office procedures on the reg pays out pretty well

 

[podnotafaas]

Answer is a resounding yes! You can make a very good income in podiatry with clinic procedures. Why do you think most senior docs give up surgery or do minimal surgery to focus on clinic. However to be successful in clinic, you have to be smart and diligent about it especially if you have control of your clinic schedules. What I mean is don't fill up your clinic schedule with diabetic nail care followups. You want to see mostly new patients for ingrown nail, warts, foot sprain, ankle sprain, MSK pathologies such heel pain, arthritis, tendonitis, fracture care etc.

You can absolutely succeed doing office procedures. For me in any given day, half of my patients are new. If I see 20 patient a day, about 9-12 are new patients. I try to see patients two to three times follow up and discharge. Even my few diabetic nail patients, I don't schedule them for 10 weeks. I tell them to call my office after 3 months when they need their nail care. I like to leave my schedule open for new patients and I am always surprised how it fills up fast. My schedule 2 weeks from today has about 7 follows but when the day comes, it gets up to 18 or 20. New patients call constantly and want to get in ASAP. I will be pissed if 2 weeks from today, I have like 20 follow-ups on my schedule. Where will the new patients fill in? To be clear I not trying to see 30-40 patients a day. My sweet spot is 20-22 patients a day and half of them are new patients.

I am saying this from a first hand experience. I have been an associate like everyone and now I own my practice and see everything. I will describe my practice as general podiatry practice. I am not trying to box myself into one aspect of foot and ankle. I see everything. I also have one full day for surgery where I do regular podiatry cases like bunions, hammertoes etc. I don't do any crazy big surgery. Most of my income come from office clinic procedures. Don't get me started on DME and wound grafts and how much it generates for a practice.

In the future when I am ready to hire an associate, I will make it clear to my associate that there is not much big surgeries to be done. It will mostly be clinic procedures and simple elective surgeries. I will be even happy to hire a non-surgical associate. My practice is in a middle class county with about 1M population just outside a major metro. I don't want the headache of charcot recon, IM nail, TAR, Pilon etc. That's the truth

If you wouldnt mind sharing what your take home for a practice like this is per year. I'd be very interested. I got an offer from an FQHC and i'm trying to figure out if its worth skipping it and going into private practice. I'd hope to have a practice very similar to the one you described.

 

[619]

If you wouldnt mind sharing what your take home for a practice like this is per year. I'd be very interested. I got an offer from an FQHC and i'm trying to figure out if its worth skipping it and going into private practice. I'd hope to have a practice very similar to the one you described.

My take home pay is wayyyyyyy more than any FQHC and wayyyyyyy wayyyyyyy more than working for another pod at a PP. Also the tax benefits of owning a business can't be put in mere words.

 

[billBOB213]

 

[deleted1138023]

I’ve started to dislike surgery as well and I’m getting closer towards the end of my training. I’m well trained, and quite comfortable in the OR. but the headaches and potential complications are quite annoying.

 

[air bud]

I’ve started to dislike surgery as well and I’m getting closer towards the end of my training. I’m well trained, and quite comfortable in the OR. but the headaches and potential complications are quite annoying.

Lol you are still a resident and dislike surgery....wait until these are truly your patients and you have to look them in the eye and talk to their spouses kids etc....it's a ton of stress and not something to take lightly.

 

[Feli]

Lol you are still a resident and dislike surgery....wait until these are truly your patients and you have to look them in the eye and talk to their spouses kids etc....it's a ton of stress and not something to take lightly.

Lol... and don't forget the prior auths, the FMLA papers, temp disability papers, the work comp headaches, the letter for RTW, the re-do letter for RTW restrictions, the DME paperwork, the weekend Rx refills, weekend ER calls for surgical, the gathering case info for ABFAS. The pod surgery residency should come with a wrist splint for writer cramp and blue blocker glasses for all all the computer work.

Residents get the fun part... show up and do the surgery. Ah, the good old days.