Part 2 Boards Fail Rate

[347932]

Now if your goal is to work hospital based you need to know your medicine, surgery and podiatry to be part of a team. If your goal is to open a private office maybe you can get way with focusing solely on podiatry and referring out to PCP's.

My perscpective is Hospital based medicine.

I really have no idea what you mean here.

I work in the office, in the OR AND in the hospital. I am very comfortable conversing with our Medicine, Infectious Disease and Vascular colleagues and we touch base with each other on a daily basis.

I'm also one of the Podiatrists that works at a local WCC and am very busy when there, and help with medical assessment of these patients when it pertains to the foot and ankle (saw a patient who I diagnosed with Vasculitis which was missed by the PCP, the Hospitalist and Vasc).

I use almost as much "hospital based medicine" when I see patients in the office that require more acute care medically. For example I saw a patient today with severe cellulitis who was also having a mild hypertensive crisis in the office and shipped him right to the ED.

What exactly am I referring out to the PCPs? The H&Ps for my surgical cases? Yep, which fosters a very symbiotic relationship with them. "That Podiatrist you sent me to is so nice and thoughtful!" (obviously NOT talking about me). That stimulates more referrals...etc

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[shenanigans327]

You've expressed my sentiments exactly. I too wished I had more of a medical management background before starting residency. I can think of a few b.s. rotations that can be dropped in place of more quality medical rotations in our 3rd/4th year of pod school. But now that my PGY-1 year is coming to a close... I'm feeling confident in "basic" medical management. Our residency is teaching hospital based and we are held to high standards when we are off-service. Internal medicine was a struggle, surgery was getting up there, and vascular was a quantum leap...after that, every other off service rotation was piece of cake. It's unfortunate that the other services see our struggles before we mature in our training. We were co-interns with everybody (peds, IM, ENT, ortho, etc) and none of them struggled like we did in the beginning of the year. I hated playing "catch up." For some folks, it may paint a negative picture of podiatry.

In short, yes.. I feel you!

I'm really early on in training (1st year) and I know this is really premature to ask this. Is there anything you recommend doing to help in 'closing the gap' in our knowledge base prior to residency?? (for 3rd/4th years)

 

[347932]

You've expressed my sentiments exactly. I too wished I had more of a medical management background before starting residency. I can think of a few b.s. rotations that can be dropped in place of more quality medical rotations in our 3rd/4th year of pod school. But now that my PGY-1 year is coming to a close... I'm feeling confident in "basic" medical management. Our residency is teaching hospital based and we are held to high standards when we are off-service. Internal medicine was a struggle, surgery was getting up there, and vascular was a quantum leap...after that, every other off service rotation was piece of cake. It's unfortunate that the other services see our struggles before we mature in our training. We were co-interns with everybody (peds, IM, ENT, ortho, etc) and none of them struggled like we did in the beginning of the year. I hated playing "catch up." For some folks, it may paint a negative picture of podiatry.

In short, yes.. I feel you!

I hate to tell you this but medical graduates are barely better prepared for their PGY-1 year. They aren't any better taught. We aren't THAT behind folks.

 

[SuperFeisty]

Kidsfeet, I know you've gone through this, but have you considered maybe you're just too baller/awesome/ridonkulous for the rest of us? Not everyone has Canadian blood! I think that people posting their experiences allows us lowly prepods to see the scope of how things are. No one is correct, no one is wrong (unless you're amaprez). Knowing that we are behind should incite ALL of us to work even harder. Complacency is the death of podiatry?

 

[amaprez]

Kidsfeet, I know you've gone through this, but have you considered maybe you're just too baller/awesome/ridonkulous for the rest of us? Not everyone has Canadian blood! I think that people posting their experiences allows us lowly prepods to see the scope of how things are. No one is correct, no one is wrong (unless you're amaprez). Knowing that we are behind should incite ALL of us to work even harder. Complacency is the death of podiatry?

lol wut. Stephen A Smith is already correct! Always!

 

[streetsweeper]

I hate to tell you this but medical graduates are barely better prepared for their PGY-1 year. They aren't any better taught. We aren't THAT behind folks.

I disagree. My experience is fresh and I also compared it to my peers from different schools and in residencies across the country. I'm hearing the same things. Maybe you are just a super genius.

 

[MGHFOOTDOC]

kidsfeet - the topic as I wrote it pertains to students and most students as I read it agree with me. Whether or not you are happy and competent in your career is not really the point of my topic nor my concern.

 

[streetsweeper]

I'm really early on in training (1st year) and I know this is really premature to ask this. Is there anything you recommend doing to help in 'closing the gap' in our knowledge base prior to residency?? (for 3rd/4th years)

It's more of an experience thing versus straight up text book knowledge. As a student on internal med, you go through rounds, lectures, and afternoon courses which is pretty standard. But in addition to all that, you're "following" patients with specific disease/morbidities. The more people you follow, the more disease you see, the more you are a part of the overall medical management. Medical management doesn't involve just treating one chief complaint...it includes that in addition to managing everything else (their poly-pharmacy, pre-existing renal failure, heart disaese, diabetes, etc etc). And generally, one patient may have all of the above.This way of learning will prepare you better on your off service rotations in residency. I only had 1 month of that out of 4 years of pod school. We need more.

 

[347932]

kidsfeet - the topic as I wrote it pertains to students and most students as I read it agree with me. Whether or not you are happy and competent in your career is not really the point of my topic nor my concern.

Jeez. I taught in a major medical institution for 8 years. I'm talking from my experience with students and residents.

The top students do amazingly well. I'm sorry to say but the lower third don't tend to fair as well. It's the same in allopathic medicine. There will always be better and worse. If you find you're lacking, at this point it's NOT the school. It's YOU.

 

[347932]

Kidsfeet, I know you've gone through this, but have you considered maybe you're just too baller/awesome/ridonkulous for the rest of us? Not everyone has Canadian blood! I think that people posting their experiences allows us lowly prepods to see the scope of how things are. No one is correct, no one is wrong (unless you're amaprez). Knowing that we are behind should incite ALL of us to work even harder. Complacency is the death of podiatry?

First of all...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..

ahem, sorry....

Think about this for one moment. How are there superstars that come out of the "lower end" schools in EVERY profession? It's because they transcend. That's why.

Do you transcend?

 

[347932]

kidsfeet - the topic as I wrote it pertains to students and most students as I read it agree with me. Whether or not you are happy and competent in your career is not really the point of my topic nor my concern.

Most students??

Are you actually trying to tell me that the few students on this forum represent the majority of students out there?

Are there ANY students that you encounter that DON'T complain about this?

 

[MGHFOOTDOC]

Simply put and without saying "it's the same for allopathics" please explain to me how it is correct/possible that a student can pass all his/her classes, be promoted through each year and graduate with a DPM and not be able to pass Part 2 of the boards. These are students that worked hard and graduated but all of a sudden we as a profession just blow them off and simply say they must be the lower third so who cares. If that is the attitude than shame on us as educators.

 

[347932]

Simply put and without saying "it's the same for allopathics" please explain to me how it is correct/possible that a student can pass all his/her classes, be promoted through each year and graduate with a DPM and not be able to pass Part 2 of the boards. These are students that worked hard and graduated but all of a sudden we as a profession just blow them off and simply say they must be the lower third so who cares. If that is the attitude than shame on us as educators.

Sorry, but no.

The same happens in Medical School.

Stuff happens. One board exam is MUCH different than sitting for multiple exam during a semester and passing some of them, but still getting through a class. There are a huge number of reasons why people don't pass these Boards, least of which is a failure on the part of the educators. I don't rate myself as an educator based on the minority of students I TRY to teach. You'd be amazed at how many residents I've taught blow off the information I TRY to relay only to realize that that information actually DID show up on a board exam and MAYBE they should have paid attention.

It's our job as a profession to foster excellence. At this point in life Darwinism is key. Persist and achieve and if you can't, it's nobody's fault but YOURS. And don't even THINK about trying to take a stab at me that I don't practice what I preach. I come from an immigrant family and had struggles you wouldn't believe to get to where I am. I've been there and done that and made it through. If I can do it, so can anyone else imo.

 

[SuperFeisty]

Think about this for one moment. How are there superstars that come out of the "lower end" schools in EVERY profession? It's because they transcend. That's why.
Do you transcend?

Only on the weekends when it's not football season my friend

 

[bobdolerson]

Actually, I can very much understand how you could go through these classes, pass (even with high averages) and fail the boards.

It depends on how you're studying for each class, how much you're studying consistently the same material, and how much of it is cramming.

I've noticed that I can study one of two ways and get similar scores on exams, but retain the information differently. I can either cram for a day and a half before the test, and do fine, and basically know very little of the information later, or I can study the information consistently from the point of first interaction to exam time, get the same grades, and still know the majority of it later.

If some people are passing classes and failing the boards, and others are passing classes and passing the boards, I would have to think that the information they /retained/ would be a big factor here.

I don't know that this is the reason, nor am I claiming to understand why people fail the boards, i'm only saying this to say that I do understand how you can not have an adequate understanding of the information, even after performing adequately on the exams.

I'm going to have a hard time with immunology and micro because i did too much cramming. I'm having a hard time even now, because when the info comes up again, I basically have to relearn it all. I will have to make a point of studying some of it a lot more than others based on how I studied for the exams, and not so much based on what was taught to me during the class.

Again, this is to say nothing about the information that people know as residents, or whether or not they are competent as first year residents, I'm only talking about the boards and a possible reason for poor performance. At least, were I to fail the boards, this would probably be why.

 

[hematosis]

First of all...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..

ahem, sorry....

Think about this for one moment. How are there superstars that come out of the "lower end" schools in EVERY profession? It's because they transcend. That's why.

Do you transcend?

Is it true that Canadians are scared of the dark?

 

[347932]

Is it true that Canadians are scared of the dark?

Depends where you live in Canada.

 

[bobdolerson]

That's not very nice, eh?

 

[347932]

That's not very nice, eh?

Ahhhh...pfft...I try to run with it y'know...

 

[hematosis]

That's not very nice, eh?

Its just an old Canadian joke thats really not true. KF knows that. I try to give him a hard time every once in a while. He's a brilliant attending though.

 

[bobdolerson]

So is finishing sentences with, eh?

I like Canadians...my best man was Canadian. They're all aboot having fun.

 

[347932]

aboot.

Pffft if you're going to make fun at least do it right. The proper pronunciation is

AH-BOOT. Get it right wouldja!?

 

[hotdawg]

I'm asking this for a friend too lazy to register for SDN (i'm not a pod student). how do you view the former residents that didn't pass part 2 and got a residency, and passed in residency? many are practicing now, right? there has to be second or third year residents somewhere who got to where they are before things changed, did the boards become that much harder or the curriculum that much different ? do you look at them as harshly as the students that were judged on this thread?

 

[MGHFOOTDOC]

The purpose of this thread was not to judge harshly the students that didn't pass, it was in my opinion a judgement on our schools for not prepping these people and passing them t/o the years. There are some that view these boards as a badge of honor, they are minimal competency tests that every one should pas the first time and if not by the second if they were given the basic education.

To further answer your question the boards are not any more difficult than they were originally, what this does however is improve that pesky little residency shortage we had by mandating everyone pass part 2. Its a win for the schools (they still get to collect 4 years tuition), its a win for the residencies and guess who its not a win for?

 

[bobdolerson]

As a first year who just took a practice exam, I would have to say that you're right...

Not nearly as terrifying as I first imagined, and it definitely seems more a minimal competency exam as opposed to a comprehensive "are you the man?!" exam. This is assuming that most of the lower limb anatomy questions will be answered in my lower limb anatomy class next semester, of course, but the rest of it seemed pretty straight forward.

I guess to know for sure, what is considered a passing score? EDIT: Nvm, read the site, and apparently it's scored a bit like the MCAT, where a minimal competency score is determined for each year.

This should obviously be taken with a grain of salt, as I don't know what it's like to have another year to forget all of this stuff and it seems pretty fresh, but looking at it now, it's much easier than the exams I've been taking all year. Mostly just the big-ticket items that were bolded, underlined and highlighted in class that screamed "KNOW THIS INFORMATION!!!". Rabies = negri bodies, HIV = reverse transcriptase, diaphragm = quiet inspiration, capsule=antiphagocytic...all of the most basic things that you had to learn to even understand all of the second, third order questions.

I'm glad I took the practice test now...makes me much less scared for the future.

 

[DJ Quik]

The difficulty of part 2 of boards has increased as well to "fix the glitch" of more residents than spots. 2 years ago, part 2 was a joke, it is now significantly more difficult. Schools don't teach to the level of the boards, either.