***Oversupply of Pharmacists***

[phathead]

This whole thread is the exact reason why our profession cannot get out of first gear. Instead of standing up for ourselves we sit here and whine and bicker about the fact we may have a 'hard time finding a job' or that 'robots will replace us all' or that 'pharmacy is dead'.

Ya know what? Just shut up. If you're going into the profession with that kind of attitude, please just leave now.

Part of the reason why Lady Gaga has more testicular fortitude than the APhA is just because of this reason. Everyone either sits around whining about it or glosses over it with 'Let's just add MTMs!' while ignoring the true problems in the profession right now.

We need to work on reimbursement for retail and other basic services so that we will not be left with just Walgreens and CVSs. We need to educate the public on what pharmacist can truly do for them and not that we simply count by five all day long. We need to have doctors understand that we are not their enemy, but an asset that we can use to improve the quality of patient life.

I for one, will not stand for the nonchalant attitude that so many in the profession have. I will not be pushed around and I will not stand idly by as we are taken advantage of.

The first step is to stop threads like this. Yes, the job environment is changing, suck it up. It's going to go up and down the next fifty years of your career. Things are going to change, that's life. How do you think a pharmacist graduating in the 1970s feels today? Can you even IMAGINE how much change they have seen? And for the most part, they took it in stride, although they may long for more simple times.

Why the hell can't we do that?

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[tungsten87]

This whole thread is the exact reason why our profession cannot get out of first gear. Instead of standing up for ourselves we sit here and whine and bicker about the fact we may have a 'hard time finding a job' or that 'robots will replace us all' or that 'pharmacy is dead'.

Ya know what? Just shut up. If you're going into the profession with that kind of attitude, please just leave now.

Part of the reason why Lady Gaga has more testicular fortitude than the APhA is just because of this reason. Everyone either sits around whining about it or glosses over it with 'Let's just add MTMs!' while ignoring the true problems in the profession right now.

We need to work on reimbursement for retail and other basic services so that we will not be left with just Walgreens and CVSs. We need to educate the public on what pharmacist can truly do for them and not that we simply count by five all day long. We need to have doctors understand that we are not their enemy, but an asset that we can use to improve the quality of patient life.

I for one, will not stand for the nonchalant attitude that so many in the profession have. I will not be pushed around and I will not stand idly by as we are taken advantage of.

The first step is to stop threads like this. Yes, the job environment is changing, suck it up. It's going to go up and down the next fifty years of your career. Things are going to change, that's life. How do you think a pharmacist graduating in the 1970s feels today? Can you even IMAGINE how much change they have seen? And for the most part, they took it in stride, although they may long for more simple times.

Why the hell can't we do that?

this is a pretty deep problem as you must consider the type of people pharmacy attracts. from my experience, pharmacy attracts the type of person that just does barely enough to get by, and who's only concern is taking an easy route to a six figure salary. pharmacy does not attract leaders and go-getters like medicine and even dentistry, although there are definitely exceptions to this (i am speaking generally). also, the diploma mills are not helping this cause at all by admitting students who don't have the intelligence and drive to become pharmacists in the first place. instead of blaming the mediocre students blame the diploma mills, because without these schools those lame students would not have a seat in a pharmacy school in the first place!

unfortunately, with these type of people infiltrating the profession, i don't think this profession will get out of "first gear" any time soon. one advantage this does have is that those who are dedicated and want to become leaders of the profession will have the opportunity to stand out more and be recognized.

 

[phathead]

this is a pretty deep problem as you must consider the type of people pharmacy attracts. from my experience, pharmacy attracts the type of person that just does barely enough to get by, and who's only concern is taking an easy route to a six figure salary. pharmacy does not attract leaders and go-getters like medicine and even dentistry, although there are definitely exceptions to this (i am speaking generally). also, the diploma mills are not helping this cause at all by admitting students who don't have the intelligence and drive to become pharmacists in the first place. instead of blaming the mediocre students blame the diploma mills, because without these schools those lame students would not have a seat in a pharmacy school in the first place!

unfortunately, with these type of people infiltrating the profession, i don't think this profession will get out of "first gear" any time soon. one advantage this does have is that those who are dedicated and want to become leaders of the profession will have the opportunity to stand out more and be recognized.

That is very true, but we also have the benefit of not being overly egotistical has some of the other medical professions do. My big thing is we never meet our full potential. I don't even think we reach half of our potential.

Again, we need to step up to start to change our profession so this does not happen. I'm not gonna be your 9 to 5 pharmacist, I want to help evolve this profession into a better standing than when I entered it.

 

[rxlea]

this is a pretty deep problem as you must consider the type of people pharmacy attracts. from my experience, pharmacy attracts the type of person that just does barely enough to get by, and who's only concern is taking an easy route to a six figure salary. pharmacy does not attract leaders and go-getters like medicine and even dentistry, although there are definitely exceptions to this (i am speaking generally). also, the diploma mills are not helping this cause at all by admitting students who don't have the intelligence and drive to become pharmacists in the first place. instead of blaming the mediocre students blame the diploma mills, because without these schools those lame students would not have a seat in a pharmacy school in the first place!

unfortunately, with these type of people infiltrating the profession, i don't think this profession will get out of "first gear" any time soon. one advantage this does have is that those who are dedicated and want to become leaders of the profession will have the opportunity to stand out more and be recognized.

I don't believe this is the majority, though. As for the "diploma mills", you have a point in regards to lower admissions standards. Unfortunately, no matter how much we bitch and moan, I doubt the ACPE is going to stop allowing schools to open anytime soon...that is unless our organizations actually grow a pair (although, I don't have much faith in this). As many of us have stated in another thread, requiring a bachelors degree may deter the type of students you are referring to from trying to enter into the profession. The leaders that you mention are going to be the people that can change the profession from within. But, people actually have to care first.

EDIT: another thing, I do believe pharmacy attracts a lot of leaders and go getters just like medicine and dentistry do. I guess it just depends on where you look.

 

[Silvermist]

We need to educate the public on what pharmacist can truly do for them and not that we simply count by five all day long.

I think there are a lot of ways to do this. One idea I have is to contact local county/town newspapers (you know, the free ones you get in the mail or at the supermarket) and ask if you can write a column on health issues. At least in my neck of the woods, they seem to have a lot of professions doing this on everything from plumbing to faith.

And why not form a PAC and put some public service announcements on the radio? Something drug information related or simple pieces of advice. Like: "With the recent medicine recalls, parents and caregivers alike are worried about what medicines are safe to give their kids. Ask a trusted medical professional who is trained in medications and always available to answer your call: your pharmacist. "

 

[phathead]

I think there are a lot of ways to do this. One idea I have is to contact local county/town newspapers (you know, the free ones you get in the mail or at the supermarket) and ask if you can write a column on health issues. At least in my neck of the woods, they seem to have a lot of professions doing this on everything from plumbing to faith.

And why not form a PAC and put some public service announcements on the radio? Something drug information related or simple pieces of advice. Like: "With the recent medicine recalls, parents and caregivers alike are worried about what medicines are safe to give their kids. Ask a trusted medical professional who is trained in medications and always available to answer your call: your pharmacist. "

Oh I agree, but it has to be more than local. It's something that APhA could do very effectively with their large scope. Sadly, they won't do anything of that nature.

 

[tungsten87]

Oh I agree, but it has to be more than local. It's something that APhA could do very effectively with their large scope. Sadly, they won't do anything of that nature.

especially when these organizations are largely influenced by the chains.. which situation is better for them: oversupply or shortage?

 

[Its Z]

This whole thread is the exact reason why our profession cannot get out of first gear. Instead of standing up for ourselves we sit here and whine and bicker about the fact we may have a 'hard time finding a job' or that 'robots will replace us all' or that 'pharmacy is dead'.

Ya know what? Just shut up. If you're going into the profession with that kind of attitude, please just leave now.

Part of the reason why Lady Gaga has more testicular fortitude than the APhA is just because of this reason. Everyone either sits around whining about it or glosses over it with 'Let's just add MTMs!' while ignoring the true problems in the profession right now.

We need to work on reimbursement for retail and other basic services so that we will not be left with just Walgreens and CVSs. We need to educate the public on what pharmacist can truly do for them and not that we simply count by five all day long. We need to have doctors understand that we are not their enemy, but an asset that we can use to improve the quality of patient life.

I for one, will not stand for the nonchalant attitude that so many in the profession have. I will not be pushed around and I will not stand idly by as we are taken advantage of.

The first step is to stop threads like this. Yes, the job environment is changing, suck it up. It's going to go up and down the next fifty years of your career. Things are going to change, that's life. How do you think a pharmacist graduating in the 1970s feels today? Can you even IMAGINE how much change they have seen? And for the most part, they took it in stride, although they may long for more simple times.

Why the hell can't we do that?

Ok.. so what are you going to do?

 

[phathead]

Ok.. so what are you going to do?

I have no idea at this moment, it's not like I have a specific plan. I realize I'm young and I have several decades ahead of me. I'm not so jaded where I believe I have all of the answers right now.

The first step though is to stop this 'The Sky is Falling Down' routine and grow a pair.

 

[njac]

With IHS? Uhm, I don't think so. But, maybe what I was told was wrong.

that's per the UNM classes of 2009 and 2010.

I was told during school by friends who interned with IHS that the positions within the city are quite competitive when they do come available.

But what do I know - I only went to school there and had friends who were jobless for months (or for the class of 2010, still are)

 

[rxlea]

I'm not talking about IHS in the cities, I am talking about the rez

 

[Its Z]

I have no idea at this moment, it's not like I have a specific plan. I realize I'm young and I have several decades ahead of me. I'm not so jaded where I believe I have all of the answers right now.

The first step though is to stop this 'The Sky is Falling Down' routine and grow a pair.

I'm not sure what hypertrophy of gonads will solve...

It's good to be optimistic I'm the ultimate optimist. But it's also important to understand the reality and plan accordingly. I have never discouraged anyone from getting into pharmacy as I believe and live a wonderful life as a pharmacist with a dream job. But I also know what it will take to survive as a pharmacist. I always ask students what their future goals are. And everytime I hear the response "retail," I can't help but feel a sense of disappointment because I believe our education was meant for more. I also realize that a PharmD alone will be insufficient in the future.

I didn't do a residency or an MBA. But I'm in a position hiring pharmacists with residency and MBA...well, no openings lately.

You may not like to read the negativity here. But be thankful you're probably more informed about the current pharmacist market than most other prepharmers entering the profession with blinders on.

 

[Jonassen]

I'm not sure what hypertrophy of gonads will solve...

It's good to be optimistic I'm the ultimate optimist. But it's also important to understand the reality and plan accordingly. I have never discouraged anyone from getting into pharmacy as I believe and live a wonderful life as a pharmacist with a dream job. But I also know what it will take to survive as a pharmacist. I always ask students what their future goals are. And everytime I hear the response "retail," I can't help but feel a sense of disappointment because I believe our education was meant for more. I also realize that a PharmD alone will be insufficient in the future.

I didn't do a residency or an MBA. But I'm in a position hiring pharmacists with residency and MBA...well, no openings lately.

You may not like to read the negativity here. But be thankful you're probably more informed about the current pharmacist market than most other prepharmers entering the profession with blinders on.

What happens when we get greater automation and CVS no longer needs a pharmacist at every store? Will the existing pharmacists starve or will they become "pharmacist practitioners" at minute clinics?

Seems to me that starving is unlikely. More likely is that pharmacists would put their education and training to use in a new niche. Until then, live and let live with $120k a year in pocket.

 

[tendram]

also, the diploma mills are not helping this cause at all by admitting students who don't have the intelligence and drive to become pharmacists in the first place.

Just to further justify this statement: I know several pharmacists that didn't want to be pharmacists but went into the profession because it was an easier and/or more profitable alternative than what they actually wanted to do.

 

[Medwell]

I know several pharmacists that didn't want to be pharmacists but went into the profession because it was an easier and/or more profitable alternative than what they actually wanted to do.

YES.
Take a look at this thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=709242

I am absolutely stunned by the number of people pursuing a career other than their "dream job". What is going through their minds as they live day after day as pre-pharm students/pharm students/pharmacists? Do they actually think "I shall ignore my true calling in life and become a pharmacist instead."?

 

[MountainPharmD]

I have no idea at this moment, it's not like I have a specific plan. I realize I'm young and I have several decades ahead of me. I'm not so jaded where I believe I have all of the answers right now.

The first step though is to stop this 'The Sky is Falling Down' routine and grow a pair.

Easy to say when your status is pre-pharmacy. Your not even in the profession yet and claim to know all that is wrong and how to fix it. Please keep going it is quite entertaining....

I love these pre-pharmacy people. All full of piss and vinegar and no clue what they are talking about.

 

[MountainPharmD]

What happens when we get greater automation and CVS no longer needs a pharmacist at every store? Will the existing pharmacists starve or will they become "pharmacist practitioners" at minute clinics?

We are there. Walgreens POWER is a great example of automation and the elimination of duplicate services. Once Walgreens works the kinks out CVS and the rest will follow. Walgreens and CVS have slowed or stopped building new stores. Staffing levels have been cut to the bare minimum with most pharmacies operating with only 2 pharmacists with minimal overlap.

All boom and bust cycles follow the same basic pattern. Pharmacy will be no different. 7 or 8 years ago there was a huge shortage, salaries skyrocketed and all of a sudden everyone wanted to be a pharmacist and make 100k a year. Now we are in a bust cycle along with the rest of the country. When new grads cannot find a job and salaries stagnate new students will not consider pharmacy. Several of the new diploma mill schools will fail and close. It will take a few years for the profession to correct itself. We will be in a better place if we can survive the next few years. Those of us in the profession need to hold on because it is going to be a wild ride.

 

[Its Z]

We are there. Walgreens POWER is a great example of automation and the elimination of duplicate services. Once Walgreens works the kinks out CVS and the rest will follow. Walgreens and CVS have slowed or stopped building new stores. Staffing levels have been cut to the bare minimum with most pharmacies operating with only 2 pharmacists with minimal overlap.

All boom and bust cycles follow the same basic pattern. Pharmacy will be no different. 7 or 8 years ago there was a huge shortage, salaries skyrocketed and all of a sudden everyone wanted to be a pharmacist and make 100k a year. Now we are in a bust cycle along with the rest of the country. When new grads cannot find a job and salaries stagnate new students will not consider pharmacy. Several of the new diploma mill schools will fail and close. It will take a few years for the profession to correct itself. We will be in a better place if we can survive the next few years. Those of us in the profession need to hold on because it is going to be a wild ride.

I agree with all except that statement. I think it's yours and my wish those schools will fail. But seeing how low tier law schools have proliferated, I tend to think in this economic downturn those parasitic academia will only grow larger like malignant metastatic tumors.

 

[Its Z]

Studying Walgreen's strategy is one of the ways to assess the pharmacy market. Walgreen's new store expansion has definitely waned. Yet their growth is now coming from acquisitions, a move that doesn't increase pharmacist jobs. This is labor neutral at best in my opinion.

Recent fiscal year plan was the reduction of cost by $1 billion. Wags senior leadership isn't a group of geniuses.. they're no different than any other industry executives. Cost reduction plans involve reduction in supply and labor cost. And if I had to take a wild pop shot guess, I will say reduction of 1 FTE pharmacist per store (7,000 stores) will net about a billion dollars. Reduction of tech hours will be extra savings. But it must be balanced with investments in the "Power" program and this will certainly involve some labor shifting from the store front to central "Power" stations. And this is probably one of the strategies in the cost reduction plan.

Perhaps Wags insider may laugh at my theory. Or maybe not.

Then again, I'm not a retail guy.. I only speculate. But I think I'm more right than wrong.

 

[tungsten87]

I agree with all except that statement. I think it's yours and my wish those schools will fail. But seeing how low tier law schools have proliferated, I tend to think in this economic downturn those parasitic academia will only grow larger like malignant metastatic tumors.

Maybe.. I can think of at least two schools that were supposed to open next year but aren't: USF and another school whose name has escaped me but there is a huge thread about it somewhere. Hopefully the financial downturn plus the lack of jobs will both slow the expansion of some of these schools and prevent future applicants from applying. I think the best way for this to happen is dissemination of the knowledge that the field is saturated via word of mouth and through pharmacy-related news sources. With the knowledge I have now about the profession had I not been admitted to my state school with ~16K/year tuition, I would have not gone to pharmacy school at all, but the same can't be said for everyone.

Closing or at least slowed growth of these diploma mills is what I'm really hoping for but I'm not sure how realistic that thought is. Does anyone have any insight into this history of the law school bust, especially concerning the opening of the law diploma mills? It may help to compare and contrast the two.

 

[genesis09]

For an average non-24 hour store, POWER will eliminate 0.5 pharmacist FTEs. Only results have showed that POWER is not saving anywhere near as money as hoped. In POWER markets, script numbers are down dramatically as compared to normal stores. Everyone knows it has failed, but the senior management refuse to admit to it.

 

[Its Z]

Maybe.. I can think of at least two schools that were supposed to open next year but aren't

Not opening a school is much easier than closing a school.

As long as schools are profitable, they'll stay open.

 

[Its Z]

For an average non-24 hour store, POWER will eliminate 0.5 pharmacist FTEs. Only results have showed that POWER is not saving anywhere near as money as hoped. In POWER markets, script numbers are down dramatically as compared to normal stores. Everyone knows it has failed, but the senior management refuse to admit to it.

I guess it proves my statement Wags senior management isn't a group of geniuses.

You don't think someone will figure out how to make it successful? How many tech FTE and inventory reduction per store was "Power" suppose to bring?

 

[Silvermist]

The one thing about new schools that I don't think we are considering is the student loan marketplace. The job situation is harsh for young grads across the board. Will they start to default en masse, the way that mortgage holders have? How will this impact future student access to mega-loans to attend professional schools in the future? Is the point moot because government is now in control of lending, or will the sovereign debt crises force our hand and create another credit crunch? I have no idea how things will turn out, but it is an important variable we ought to consider.

 

[crazybob]

The one thing about new schools that I don't think we are considering is the student loan marketplace. The job situation is harsh for young grads across the board. Will they start to default en masse, the way that mortgage holders have? How will this impact future student access to mega-loans to attend professional schools in the future? Is the point moot because government is now in control of lending, or will the sovereign debt crises force our hand and create another credit crunch? I have no idea how things will turn out, but it is an important variable we ought to consider.

Are we going to have another recession if the graduates from the new schools can't pay off their loans?

 

[Silvermist]

Are we going to have another recession if the graduates from the new schools can't pay off their loans?

No lol. I mean access to loans might - might! - get harder as a result of 1) defaults, which though insured by government at this time are still subject to 2) international financial pressure from not only our own liabilities but from the overseas sovereign debt crises (Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc) which are wreaking havoc with currencies. It's not a sexy subject but the outcome will have a major ripple effect on our finances.

Harder to get a loan -> harder to go to school -> harder to keep schools open

 

[Passion4Sci]

I don't think that'd be such a bad thing. We can reverse the ridiculous paper inflation that we've got now.

An Ivy League degree for administrative work? A BA/BS required to work at Target or JC Penny's? This is almost the way it is now.

If people were forced to actually think about going to school before doing so, it could be beneficial. So many students in both my undergraduate programs were just there to "Do something", to avoid the "real world" for a few more years, get the "college experience" or some other such frivolous concept. I still favor Israel's compulsory 2 years of military post-HS graduation. With over 200 MOS (jobs) available, kids could see what JOB they'd like to do for their life, instead of vacillating in an undergrad school somewhere racking up thousands of bucks in debt that might take decades to pay back at $11.25/hr.

It'd be nice if schools would be harder to open and keep open. Then you wouldn't have so many U. of Phoenix, Kaplan and Brandman "universities" opening left and right, on the hope of sucking loan money dry. Most times, these people wouldn't even want degrees if their employers didn't nearly force them into it, like my cousin Kathy.

 

[genesis09]

I guess it proves my statement Wags senior management isn't a group of geniuses.

You don't think someone will figure out how to make it successful? How many tech FTE and inventory reduction per store was "Power" suppose to bring?

I don't know, but the people don't like it.

 

[Thumper17]

I don't think that'd be such a bad thing. We can reverse the ridiculous paper inflation that we've got now.

An Ivy League degree for administrative work? A BA/BS required to work at Target or JC Penny's? This is almost the way it is now.

If people were forced to actually think about going to school before doing so, it could be beneficial. So many students in both my undergraduate programs were just there to "Do something", to avoid the "real world" for a few more years, get the "college experience" or some other such frivolous concept. I still favor Israel's compulsory 2 years of military post-HS graduation. With over 200 MOS (jobs) available, kids could see what JOB they'd like to do for their life, instead of vacillating in an undergrad school somewhere racking up thousands of bucks in debt that might take decades to pay back at $11.25/hr.

It'd be nice if schools would be harder to open and keep open. Then you wouldn't have so many U. of Phoenix, Kaplan and Brandman "universities" opening left and right, on the hope of sucking loan money dry. Most times, these people wouldn't even want degrees if their employers didn't nearly force them into it, like my cousin Kathy.

But the whole point of the government backing education is to reduce the number of people in the labor force. If people feel obligated to go to full-time college for 4 years (and believe me, I think 90% of undergrad institutions are somewhere between mediocre and a joke) that keeps the labor pool smaller and reduces unemployment! yay!

Also, if people are stupid enough to take out 60k in loans to pay FOR PROFIT colleges like UofPhoenix and the like, I think the CEOs/stockholders of those companies should be laughing all the way to the bank. Just like students who pay 15k to be trained as a PHARM TECH at FOR PROFIT institutions. Who are these people that pay 15 grand to learn a profession that pays 15-20 bucks an hour TOPS?!?! Craziness.

 

[type b pharmD]

Just to further justify this statement: I know several pharmacists that didn't want to be pharmacists but went into the profession because it was an easier and/or more profitable alternative than what they actually wanted to do.

Well. going into a profession when you know ahead of time, you'll be competing against a bunch of boneheads... makes it easier to GET a dream job

Not necessarily talking about you.. or even the majority of people here. but they are definitely out there.


..
I think there were about 25 applicants for my current job, when i applied.

2:1 is nothing.

What about biglaw or big financial jobs.. there are maybe what.. 15 associates and one of them becomes a partner ?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Somehow, I've wrangled a phone interview next week for a M-F 8-4 job at a hospital in one of the most sought after markets in the country.

I hope it goes well.

 

[Thumper17]

http://www.pharmacy.purdue.edu/students/prospective/EmploymentPU09.php

2 people out of the 147 in their 2009 graduating class were undicided and/or still seeking employment!!! Also, the average salary of the 145/147 was only $111,211/year, and ONLY had 2.52 job offers per student.

STAY AWAY FROM PHARMACY!!

 

[WVUPharm2007]

http://www.pharmacy.purdue.edu/students/prospective/EmploymentPU09.php

2 people out of the 147 in their 2009 graduating class were undicided and/or still seeking employment!!! Also, the average salary of the 145/147 was only $111,211/year, and ONLY had 2.52 job offers per student.

STAY AWAY FROM PHARMACY!!

Indiana is a really good market. You can get a job in Ft Wayne or Indy right fast. A few recruiters have been trying to get me to interview for a job with Medco in Indianapolis.

 

[tungsten87]

http://www.pharmacy.purdue.edu/students/prospective/EmploymentPU09.php

2 people out of the 147 in their 2009 graduating class were undicided and/or still seeking employment!!! Also, the average salary of the 145/147 was only $111,211/year, and ONLY had 2.52 job offers per student.

STAY AWAY FROM PHARMACY!!

a lot has changed since that class graduated...

BTW good luck on your interview WVU! What region is the hospital in?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

a lot has changed since that class graduated...

BTW good luck on your interview WVU! What region is the hospital in?

I ain't sayin' in fear of the competition getting wind of it.

 

[Thumper17]

a lot has changed since that class graduated...

BTW good luck on your interview WVU! What region is the hospital in?

Okay, and if when they post their data for 2010 and it is essentially identical what will you say then? People were posting these doom and gloom threads well before that class graduated too.....

 

[tungsten87]

Okay, and if when they post their data for 2010 and it is essentially identical what will you say then? People were posting these doom and gloom threads well before that class graduated too.....

then I will stand corrected. The job market has changed a lot in the past year though.

 

[b1234]

But the whole point of the government backing education is to reduce the number of people in the labor force. If people feel obligated to go to full-time college for 4 years (and believe me, I think 90% of undergrad institutions are somewhere between mediocre and a joke) that keeps the labor pool smaller and reduces unemployment! yay!

Also, if people are stupid enough to take out 60k in loans to pay FOR PROFIT colleges like UofPhoenix and the like, I think the CEOs/stockholders of those companies should be laughing all the way to the bank. Just like students who pay 15k to be trained as a PHARM TECH at FOR PROFIT institutions. Who are these people that pay 15 grand to learn a profession that pays 15-20 bucks an hour TOPS?!?! Craziness.

It's not that most undergrad universities are a joke - it's that most undergraduate (majors) degrees do not prepare (or qualify) you for any (specific) jobs. Other than professional degrees (engineering, education, nursing) and certain degrees in the hard sciences, most degrees do not equate to job skills or knowledge required to do specific jobs.

 

[naus]

http://www.pharmacy.purdue.edu/students/prospective/EmploymentPU09.php

2 people out of the 147 in their 2009 graduating class were undicided and/or still seeking employment!!! Also, the average salary of the 145/147 was only $111,211/year, and ONLY had 2.52 job offers per student.

And pharmacists just ten years ago made $50-60k. What's your point? Things change. We had a shortage, now we don't. It's hard to imagine pharmacy having another shortage with all these diploma mills pumping graduates like no tomorrow. There's already a drug store on every major intersection it seems. I don't see where additional growth is going to come from to absorb the influx of graduates. It's not like a corporation where you can always go overseas to seek new growth.

There's no reason to think the pharmacist salary and job demand won't regress toward the mean now that supply and demand has mostly balanced.

 

[naus]

It's not that most undergrad universities are a joke - it's that most undergraduate (majors) degrees do not prepare (or qualify) you for any (specific) jobs. Other than professional degrees (engineering, education, nursing) and certain degrees in the hard sciences, most degrees do not equate to job skills or knowledge required to do specific jobs.

An Education degree is about as useful as an English major. And most degrees in hard sciences, unless you go to medical school, land you as a $12/hr peon in a lab.

 

[Project2015]

It's not that most undergrad universities are a joke - it's that most undergraduate (majors) degrees do not prepare (or qualify) you for any (specific) jobs. Other than professional degrees (engineering, education, nursing) and certain degrees in the hard sciences, most degrees do not equate to job skills or knowledge required to do specific jobs.

Isn't it by design? Universities (at the undergraduate level) don't really position themselves as technical schools preparing students for specific jobs. It's really more about academic pursuits and personal growth. It may not translate directly to a job, but it makes an individual a better person. Of course, both parties are responsible for making that happen.

 

[b1234]

An Education degree is about as useful as an English major. And most degrees in hard sciences, unless you go to medical school, land you as a $12/hr peon in a lab.

Depends on the region (of course). Teachers may not make all that much money, but depending on the specialty and the region - many can at least get jobs fairly easily - and the point was that the degree (and license) qualify you for a specific job that other people are not qualified for.

Most jobs as peons in labs start out at a (little) bit more than $12/hr and get raises. Again though, the point was that there are jobs out there that the degree (or at least the knowledge/skills that you learn while working on that degree) make you qualified for a specific job that most other people are not qualified for. Also in most hard sciences PhD programs pay - as opposed to the student paying to go.

 

[Silvermist]

Somehow, I've wrangled a phone interview next week for a M-F 8-4 job at a hospital in one of the most sought after markets in the country.

I hope it goes well.

Good luck! Keep us posted!!

 

[UNMorBUST]

Somehow, I've wrangled a phone interview next week for a M-F 8-4 job at a hospital in one of the most sought after markets in the country.

I hope it goes well.

Good Luck.

 

[SHC1984]

This thread is scary....so is Alaska pretty much saturated too?

 

[Passion4Sci]

This thread is scary....so is Alaska pretty much saturated too?

It, like every other state, has saturated parts and unsaturated parts.

 

[SHC1984]

It, like every other state, has saturated parts and unsaturated parts.

I was working with a pharmacist today and he pretty much told me everything this thread is telling me. He told me the job market is going to get tighter as the years pass. Graduating in 2010 is better than 2011, which is better than 2012 and so on. He told me the lifestyle of a pharmacist will not be as good as it was before. He told me he has a son and he recommended that he stay AWAY from pharmacy b/c the profession is going under. He is a pharmacist himself and he told me he is lucky that he graduated when there was still a shortage. This thread is saying the same thing pretty much.

Lets just hope that there is still UNSATURATED parts when I graduate in 3 years. And the salary isn't under 100K a year. One of the reasons why I went into pharmacy was b/c I thought I can choose where I want to live at. I guess that's not going to happen anymore.

R you not worried about having to move to a place out in the middle of NO WHERE? I am sure San Franciso's saturation is much worst than most other places. It would suck if your wife has a job in SF and you can't find one and have to relocate to Montana.

 

[Passion4Sci]

R you not worried about having to move to a place out in the middle of NO WHERE? I am sure San Franciso's saturation is much worst than most other places. It would suck if your wife has a job in SF and you can't find one and have to relocate to Montana./quote]

Could happen with any job though, right?

I will find something, whether it be PRN work, teaching basic biology or chemistry at a CC (Of which there are a lot of in the bay area), there'll be something.

Following her means uncertainty no matter what job I have.

 

[crazybob]

I was working with a pharmacist today and he pretty much told me everything this thread is telling me. He told me the job market is going to get tighter as the years pass. Graduating in 2010 is better than 2011, which is better than 2012 and so on. He told me the lifestyle of a pharmacist will not be as good as it was before. He told me he has a son and he recommended that he stay AWAY from pharmacy b/c the profession is going under. He is a pharmacist himself and he told me he is lucky that he graduated when there was still a shortage. This thread is saying the same thing pretty much.

Lets just hope that there is still UNSATURATED parts when I graduate in 3 years. And the salary isn't under 100K a year. One of the reasons why I went into pharmacy was b/c I thought I can choose where I want to live at. I guess that's not going to happen anymore.

R you not worried about having to move to a place out in the middle of NO WHERE? I am sure San Franciso's saturation is much worst than most other places. It would suck if your wife has a job in SF and you can't find one and have to relocate to Montana.

So you wouldn't accept any job offers out in the middle of nowhere just because it's not close to a major city?

It's not like you're gonna be on an island where you'll have to fly to SF. You can still drive there, you know.

 

[SHC1984]

R you not worried about having to move to a place out in the middle of NO WHERE? I am sure San Franciso's saturation is much worst than most other places. It would suck if your wife has a job in SF and you can't find one and have to relocate to Montana./quote]

Could happen with any job though, right?

I will find something, whether it be PRN work, teaching basic biology or chemistry at a CC (Of which there are a lot of in the bay area), there'll be something.

Following her means uncertainty no matter what job I have.

Well the pharmacist I was talking to recommended optometry as the way to go now. He told me there are only like 17 Opto schools in the USA. He is recommending optometry to his son too. Hell, maybe I should have thought about opto instead of pharm.