Osteopathic EM programs

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CajunMedic said:
Well, I didn't sleep last night, and I got the early email saying I didn't match. Now, I'm debating on the TRI and try again vs. staying in the ACGME match.
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Sucks about not matching. Sorry.

What do you have to lose from staying in the ACGME match? Especially since there will still be TRIs around if that doesn't work out for you.
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CajunMedic said:
Well, I didn't sleep last night, and I got the early email saying I didn't match. Now, I'm debating on the TRI and try again vs. staying in the ACGME match.
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If you interviewed at several ACGME programs then waiting for that match should be ok. Especially dually accredited programs going through both matches.
Matching from a TRI spot is harder but still possible. There will always be a TRI spot available somewhere if ACGME does not work out
 
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CajunMedic said:
Well, I didn't sleep last night, and I got the early email saying I didn't match. Now, I'm debating on the TRI and try again vs. staying in the ACGME match.
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I am in the same boat as you, I'm gonna stick with the ACGME and see what happens.
 
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Yeah if there is open aoa em spots, Id soap and try for one, unless you had a decent number of acgme interviews.

Now, if you have very few options in the acgme match, lets say 1-2 interviews, and em closes up on the aoa side, its a tough decision as to what to do. Its pretty unlikely you’d match em acgme with only a small # of interviews. I think in that case if there was someplace appealing geographically to soap into, id consider it.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Yeah if there is open aoa em spots, Id soap and try for one, unless you had a decent number of acgme interviews.

Now, if you have very few options in the acgme match, lets say 1-2 interviews, and em closes up on the aoa side, its a tough decision as to what to do. Its pretty unlikely you’d match em acgme with only a small # of interviews. I think in that case if there was someplace appealing geographically to soap into, id consider it.
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Thanks for stopping by today, it's a tough one for those of us who didn't match. I have a reasonable amount of interviews (7) on the ACGME side, two of which I rotated at, another two of which are dual programs that I ranked but didn't match to today. I'm looking at the scramble options and not finding them appealing at all. Am I completely crazy for passing on them after wiping out on 5 ranks in the AOA match? Should I bite the bullet here to try and get a spot now?
 
Bill Brasky said:
Thanks for stopping by today, it's a tough one for those of us who didn't match. I have a reasonable amount of interviews (7) on the ACGME side, two of which I rotated at, another two of which are dual programs that I ranked but didn't match to today. I'm looking at the scramble options and not finding them appealing at all. Am I completely crazy for passing on them after wiping out on 5 ranks in the AOA match? Should I bite the bullet here to try and get a spot now?
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Oh no, in your case if you have 7 chances in the acgme match, Id roll the dice and try to match there first before resigning to the scramble. Tons wont match AOA this year bc of the fact that theres way fewer AOA EM programs left, and many left in the AOA match are splitting their spots between matches. This leads to a situation where the number of spots were just not anywhere close to where they had been before. This year I felt like the AOA match was barely a viable match strategy, and talked to a lot of candidates that got more interviews on the acgme side than the AOA side. Its just a numbers game.

If I were a third year, I would really think twice about the AOA as an option next year for em. It will likely be a ghost town in terms of the number of available programs left.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Oh no, in your case if you have 7 chances in the acgme match, Id roll the dice and try to match there first before resigning to the scramble. Tons wont match AOA this year bc of the fact that theres way fewer AOA EM programs left, and many left in the AOA match are splitting their spots between matches. This leads to a situation where the number of spots were just not anywhere close to where they had been before. This year I felt like the AOA match was barely a viable match strategy, and talked to a lot of candidates that got more interviews on the acgme side than the AOA side. Its just a numbers game.

If I were a third year, I would really think twice about the AOA as an option next year for em. It will likely be a ghost town in terms of the number of available programs left.
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Thanks, that is what I was thinking today but wasn't sure. I think I was looking at AOA matching the way it used to be and so I felt confident in matching, but the reality is that the bottleneck effect is much, much larger than I imagined. It didn't help that I didn't rotate at any of the AOA programs I ranked.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Yeah if there is open aoa em spots, Id soap and try for one, unless you had a decent number of acgme interviews.

Now, if you have very few options in the acgme match, lets say 1-2 interviews, and em closes up on the aoa side, its a tough decision as to what to do. Its pretty unlikely you’d match em acgme with only a small # of interviews. I think in that case if there was someplace appealing geographically to soap into, id consider it.
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Thanks again for helping us out.

I only have 2 ACGME ranks: one is a brand new program taking its first residents, and the other is an established AOA program that moved over late in the season to ACGME only. I know it's not worth much, but I've gotten 2 emails from them in the past 2 weeks about matching there

Got 2 scramble apps out now, one's in front of the PD and waiting to hear back from the other one.

Pretty much everyone from the Dean on down to a couple of residents I rotated with at my #1 choice was shocked to find out I hadn't matched.
 
CajunMedic said:
Thanks again for helping us out.

I only have 2 ACGME ranks: one is a brand new program taking its first residents, and the other is an established AOA program that moved over late in the season to ACGME only. I know it's not worth much, but I've gotten 2 emails from them in the past 2 weeks about matching there

Got 2 scramble apps out now, one's in front of the PD and waiting to hear back from the other one.

Pretty much everyone from the Dean on down to a couple of residents I rotated with at my #1 choice was shocked to find out I hadn't matched.
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If EM is your absolute goal, I think its best to utilize as many of the scramble spots as possible. Assuming the locations available wont matter to you.
Were the two ACGME replies specific to you being matched there? or were they a generic reply to a letter of intent?

Hope everything works out for you man!!
 
towelonthefloor said:
Were the two ACGME replies specific to you being matched there? or were they a generic reply to a letter of intent?
Hope everything works out for you man!!
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Thanks!

Little of both? Seemed like a form letter, but stated I was discussed favorably by the committee and ranked. One came from the med student rep and the other was from the PD.
 
CajunMedic said:
Thanks again for helping us out.

I only have 2 ACGME ranks: one is a brand new program taking its first residents, and the other is an established AOA program that moved over late in the season to ACGME only. I know it's not worth much, but I've gotten 2 emails from them in the past 2 weeks about matching there

Got 2 scramble apps out now, one's in front of the PD and waiting to hear back from the other one.

Pretty much everyone from the Dean on down to a couple of residents I rotated with at my #1 choice was shocked to find out I hadn't matched.
Click to expand...

I'd consider taking my chances with those two if a SOAP position in EM doesn't work out via the AOA side. But obviously, I'd start thinking about a backup plan should one of those 2 not work out.
 
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If there are any third year DOs out there following this thread with interest in EM, Id sincerely think twice about considering the aoa match a viable option next year. Even more programs will be gone next year. Personally, Id go all in and target DO friendly places on the acgme side. I just cant see there being many options left next year.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
If there are any third year DOs out there following this thread with interest in EM, Id sincerely think twice about considering the aoa match a viable option next year. Even more programs will be gone next year. Personally, Id go all in and target DO friendly places on the acgme side. I just cant see there being many options left next year.
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I couldn’t agree more. I had above average COMLEX, a top 1/3 and middle 1/3 SLOE, no red flags, and still didn’t match. I’m really glad that top 1/3 SLOE came from a former AOA program, as they are my #1 and hopefully I can catch a break. Otherwise, despite being a typical applicant I’d be in dire straits.


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I just took a look at the numbers: Last year there were 310 EM residency spots available, this year there were only 172. Compare this to ortho, which had 116. That makes for a pretty damn competitive field and I'm no longer so surprised that I didn't match.
 
Bill Brasky said:
I just took a look at the numbers: Last year there were 310 EM residency spots available, this year there were only 172. Compare this to ortho, which had 116. That makes for a pretty damn competitive field and I'm no longer so surprised that I didn't match.
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Unfortunately I think our class really got screwed with the timing of the merger and from all the programs closing.

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green lantern said:
Unfortunately I think our class really got screwed with the timing of the merger and from all the programs closing.

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Yes and no. I mean, the merger just moved those spots to the other match. So the number of spots stayed the same for the most part. But obviously, the move of those spots in the ACGME match mean the more competition there is for those spots, so I get what you are saying. But that’s always going to be the case with the merger, this year and every year going forward.

Like it or not, the days of having protected spots are gone. Which means students need to know how to play the game. The days of going into the EM match without any SLOEs and still matching (via the AOA side) are over. Just 3 years ago, it was actually pretty common to see EM candidates in the AOA match with no SLOEs. Knowing where you competitive range is, where to apply to rotations based on where you are competitive, timing your rotations for your SLOEs.... These things are paramount going forward in order to find success. DO students are often behind the eight ball because their schools are guiding them either into primary care, or advising them about applying based on what they used to know about the AOA match, and it’s often bad advice. 3rd years, find someone, anyone, who knows what they are doing re: the ACGME match for EM that you can bounce questions off of if you need to.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
If there are any third year DOs out there following this thread with interest in EM, Id sincerely think twice about considering the aoa match a viable option next year. Even more programs will be gone next year. Personally, Id go all in and target DO friendly places on the acgme side. I just cant see there being many options left next year.
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i will heed your word. I know more than a handful of people that did not match scrambled to family . What irritates me is that they were constantly reassured about their chances at the programs. Just from your perspective since you are a PD. How can you tell if the pd is being honest with you or lying to your face?
 
Dr.Jekyll75 said:
i will heed your word. I know more than a handful of people that did not match scrambled to family . What irritates me is that they were constantly reassured about their chances at the programs. Just from your perspective since you are a PD. How can you tell if the pd is being honest with you or lying to your face?
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Well, I don't know the answer to that to be honest. Because people on both sides lie, and I've been fooled before by students who I thought were slam dunks to match with us. I think to a point, many people are just uncomfortable stating negative feedback. No one wants to tell someone they are mediocre, or that they are a bottom of the list candidate. It's incredibly uncomfortable saying that to someone. And also, sometimes its truly not a lie. Someone can tell you they are ranking you highly, then just match the spots right above you. Or they can tell you they are ranking you highly in November, only to have something come up about you they didn't know about during the rank list meeting and then DNR you. This stuff happens. Virtually every year a resident brings up concerns about a student or two that weren't well known prior to the rank list meeting only to then see that person free fall on the list. So maybe what someone says earlier in the year wasn't a lie at the time.

The take home message is, whether it's lies or not, you should never trust career decisions based on the feedback you get from programs. Rank places in the order you want to go there.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Well, I don't know the answer to that to be honest. Because people on both sides lie, and I've been fooled before by students who I thought were slam dunks to match with us. I think to a point, many people are just uncomfortable stating negative feedback. No one wants to tell someone they are mediocre, or that they are a bottom of the list candidate. It's incredibly uncomfortable saying that to someone. And also, sometimes its truly not a lie. Someone can tell you they are ranking you highly, then just match the spots right above you. Or they can tell you they are ranking you highly in November, only to have something come up about you they didn't know about during the rank list meeting and then DNR you. This stuff happens. Virtually every year a resident brings up concerns about a student or two that weren't well known prior to the rank list meeting only to then see that person free fall on the list. So maybe what someone says earlier in the year wasn't a lie at the time.

The take home message is, whether it's lies or not, you should never trust career decisions based on the feedback you get from programs. Rank places in the order you want to go there.
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ill remember that. ive just seen too many of my upper classmates mis read their feedback or get lied to completely so im becoming extremely cautious
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Well, I don't know the answer to that to be honest. Because people on both sides lie, and I've been fooled before by students who I thought were slam dunks to match with us. I think to a point, many people are just uncomfortable stating negative feedback. No one wants to tell someone they are mediocre, or that they are a bottom of the list candidate. It's incredibly uncomfortable saying that to someone. And also, sometimes its truly not a lie. Someone can tell you they are ranking you highly, then just match the spots right above you. Or they can tell you they are ranking you highly in November, only to have something come up about you they didn't know about during the rank list meeting and then DNR you. This stuff happens. Virtually every year a resident brings up concerns about a student or two that weren't well known prior to the rank list meeting only to then see that person free fall on the list. So maybe what someone says earlier in the year wasn't a lie at the time.

The take home message is, whether it's lies or not, you should never trust career decisions based on the feedback you get from programs. Rank places in the order you want to go there.
Click to expand...

Thanks @gamerEMdoc for everything. Your guidance helped a lot of us place where we want to be next year. Do you have any recommendations on how to prep for intern year? Thanks in advance. Party on!!!
gamerEMdoc said:
Well, I don't know the answer to that to be honest. Because people on both sides lie, and I've been fooled before by students who I thought were slam dunks to match with us. I think to a point, many people are just uncomfortable stating negative feedback. No one wants to tell someone they are mediocre, or that they are a bottom of the list candidate. It's incredibly uncomfortable saying that to someone. And also, sometimes its truly not a lie. Someone can tell you they are ranking you highly, then just match the spots right above you. Or they can tell you they are ranking you highly in November, only to have something come up about you they didn't know about during the rank list meeting and then DNR you. This stuff happens. Virtually every year a resident brings up concerns about a student or two that weren't well known prior to the rank list meeting only to then see that person free fall on the list. So maybe what someone says earlier in the year wasn't a lie at the time.

The take home message is, whether it's lies or not, you should never trust career decisions based on the feedback you get from programs. Rank places in the order you want to go there.
Click to expand...


Thanks for all the wisdom @gamerEMdoc. You helped a lot of us place where we wanted to for next year. Now that this year has concluded, any suggestions to prepare for intern year? I apologize if this has already been asked somewhere in the sdn atmosphere.
 
Samuraijeff said:
Thanks for all the wisdom @gamerEMdoc. You helped a lot of us place where we wanted to for next year. Now that this year has concluded, any suggestions to prepare for intern year? I apologize if this has already been asked somewhere in the sdn atmosphere.
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Simple. Go somewhere. Golf alot. Play video games. See family. Read a book that isn’t medicine. See your favorite band. Do EVERYTHING you wanted to do for leisure but you put off over the last 4 years. Residency is a long haul and you just spent 4 years of your life in a grueling process. The last thing you want to do before starting another 3 years of hard work is to study more. Take a breather and rest up.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Simple. Go somewhere. Golf alot. Play video games. See family. Read a book that isn’t medicine. See your favorite band. Do EVERYTHING you wanted to do for leisure but you put off over the last 4 years. Residency is a long haul and you just spent 4 years of your life in a grueling process. The last thing you want to do before starting another 3 years of hard work is to study more. Take a breather and rest up.
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+1

Agreed. You will learn what you need in the residency training. Give yourself a chance to recharge.

Wook
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Simple. Go somewhere. Golf alot. Play video games. See family. Read a book that isn’t medicine. See your favorite band. Do EVERYTHING you wanted to do for leisure but you put off over the last 4 years. Residency is a long haul and you just spent 4 years of your life in a grueling process. The last thing you want to do before starting another 3 years of hard work is to study more. Take a breather and rest up.
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That's what I'm doing. Starting EM residency in Michigan this summer. Currently playing God of War 3 remaster on PS4, fortnite every night, God of War 4 coming on Friday. Rocket League sprinkled in as well. I am in a 4 year program, so I definitely think I will still be able to game, not as frequently as now though obviously.
 
I haven't updated this list in awhile and I just ran a report on the former AOA programs and their current status for a group of local med students, so I figured I'd share it here so everyone is updated on the single accreditation status. There are 51 former AOA programs that applied to be ACGME, the majority of which got accredited by this point.

A few definitions to explain the current status of each program:

- Continued Accreditation - these programs have achieved full ACGME accreditation and are accredited for the next 10 years
- Initial Accreditation - these programs got a 3 year initial accreditation through the merger, and will have another site visit in the coming years to get full continued 10 year accreditation
- Continued Pre-Accreditation - do not confuse with continued accreditation. These are programs that applied for ACGME accreditation, had a site visit, and got denied, and are still in the process of revamping their program to try to meet the accreditation criteria
- Voluntary Withdrawal - These programs gave up and will not be seeking accreditation and will be closing their program

See the attachment for the list of all the 51 programs and their current status.
 

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gamerEMdoc said:
I haven't updated this list in awhile and I just ran a report on the former AOA programs and their current status for a group of local med students, so I figured I'd share it here so everyone is updated on the single accreditation status. There are 51 former AOA programs that applied to be ACGME, the majority of which got accredited by this point.

A few definitions to explain the current status of each program:

- Continued Accreditation - these programs have achieved full ACGME accreditation and are accredited for the next 10 years
- Initial Accreditation - these programs got a 3 year initial accreditation through the merger, and will have another site visit in the coming years to get full continued 10 year accreditation
- Continued Pre-Accreditation - do not confuse with continued accreditation. These are programs that applied for ACGME accreditation, had a site visit, and got denied, and are still in the process of revamping their program to try to meet the accreditation criteria
- Voluntary Withdrawal - These programs gave up and will not be seeking accreditation and will be closing their program

See the attachment for the list of all the 51 programs and their current status.
Click to expand...

I see McLaren Oakland is initial with warning, how do you find out why this is?


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I thought the AOA and ACGME residencies combined a bit ago?
Is there still two matches for some reason? What did I miss?
HH
 
Hamhock said:
I thought the AOA and ACGME residencies combined a bit ago?
Is there still two matches for some reason? What did I miss?
HH
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They agreed to combine. The process is a 5 year rolling process, during which the AOA programs that haven't transitioned over can still have a separate match.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
They agreed to combine. The process is a 5 year rolling process, during which the AOA programs that haven't transitioned over can still have a separate match.
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Ah, thanks. That is something I guess I could have googled and I may have deserved the LMGTFY.

...but I appreciate the quick answer.

Thanks, HH
 
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Anyone have info on Nassau University Medical Center? Per ACGME site, got initial accreditation in September of this year but their site looks like it doesn't mention it or if any changes with it.
 
The ACGME website will be correct. Odd they wouldn't have updated their website. Maybe they are planning on doing the AOA match for one more year, since their accreditation was this academic year, and don't want to confuse candidates? Or maybe they just aren't that on top of their website information.
 
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