ortho chances

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I'm also in a similar situation. I just got my board scores back with a 222, top 50% of my class with ortho research that should be published by the time I graduate. I've been very active in school working with curriculum, etc. I've looked at the NRMP statistics, but am curious to hear about personal experiences, etc and how people faired in interviews and match.
 
For the last 2, you're numbers are fine. Middle of the road. Ortho is definately competitive, and you won't make the cut off for some programs, but you'll make them for a lot numbers wise. If you don't have an ortho program, you need to find some community orthopods or at least rotate early at an outside institution in ortho. My chairman said he'll take ortho letters over non ortho letters any day.

Whatever you do, apply broadly. Try to get exposure early. Don't worry about step 1 score as there's nothing you can do to change it. Either take step 2 super early and ace it or concentrate on a super early outside rotation. I know plenty of people who scored in the 220's that matched at both academic and community programs. I know I had below 230, and my friend in the other program in town had below 230. We both got about 8-9 interviews and matched at our top 3 on our list. Don't believe everything online, not everyone has over 230 on step 1, although I'm sure it helps to get your foot in the door of those programs with high cutoffs.

Good luck. Sscooterguy
 
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Debridement said:
what does this hve to do with anything? nothing. my interns are cool. i'm just telling people to think and to be realisitc about becoming residents when they have a long-to non shot. i guess that makes be a bad resident. sorry, my bad. i'll go back to torturing the interns now.

DB out
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Do you take the same outlook for your patients?
Oh your chance of walking is only 50%, if the surgery is successful...so I am just going to cut your leg off now...
I wish I knew where you are so I scratch your hospital off my list :eek:
 
sinephera said:
Do you take the same outlook for your patients?
Oh your chance of walking is only 50%, if the surgery is successful...so I am just going to cut your leg off now...
I wish I knew where you are so I scratch your hospital off my list :eek:
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You were so worked up by a post from 8 months ago that you had to respond? Sad.
 
sinephera said:
Do you take the same outlook for your patients?
Oh your chance of walking is only 50%, if the surgery is successful...so I am just going to cut your leg off now...
I wish I knew where you are so I scratch your hospital off my list :eek:
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actually, yes, i do. i tell EVERYONE the truth, especially the patients. i dont ever let people believe something that is not true. i dont paint rosey pictures for them, i dont suggest that good things will happen when they are likely not going to, and i dont tell them that they're going to have a normal leg after a IIIC tibia. i tell them the unbiased truth and the odds as i know them best. i spell out all of the risks, benifits and liklihoods of each.

by your tone and example, you clearly demonstrate your ignorance of both ortho and medicine. there is a huge debate in ortho about whether people are better off with amputations after bad LE frx and there's a lot of evidence that says that some are

so am i a prick? maybe to you who live in the land of fairy tales and puppy dog tails, who think that a wish on a star will summon a flying unicorn. i know that my pts appriciate the realism and that i am straighforward and honest with them. in the end, they often end up with what they expected and you know what--most are pretty ok with it.

so get out of my face, dont question me, i dominate you

DB out
 
Debridement said:
so am i a prick?



so get out of my face, dont question me, i dominate you

DB out
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hahahaha, lowly pre-med laughing at you here :)
I dominate you? I didn't realize that doctors were internet tough guys too. :laugh:
 
phatmonky said:
hahahaha, lowly pre-med laughing at you here :)
I dominate you? I didn't realize that doctors were internet tough guys too. :laugh:
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obviosuly you have never seen Ceasar Milan or the South Park episode where Cartman gets 'dominated'

DB out
 
I am a Canadian/British citizen holding an HBA(Honors BA in Kinesiology and will have an MBBS (Bachelor of Med Bachelor of Surgery) British equivalent to MD in 4 months from now. I havent written my USMLE's yet cause but realize the score needs to be 230+. Many of you will probably tell me to forget about applying to Ortho considering my situation, but I ask all those with faith, what are my chances of getting into an Ortho program somewhere if say I get 230 on USMLE's, have a good application, and really dont care where I get in (Im doing for the love and not convenience) I am hellbent on trying till I get somewhere? I am a bull, i have a hard head, Orthopedics is the only thing i see myself doing in medicine, Id rather be in an another feild than be forced to forget ortho and pick a by the way specialty. I am willing to tell myself how much i like the taste of crap everyday till i get somewhere.
Any comments or advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
 
meerjanjua said:
I am a Canadian/British citizen holding an HBA(Honors BA in Kinesiology and will have an MBBS (Bachelor of Med Bachelor of Surgery) British equivalent to MD in 4 months from now. I havent written my USMLE's yet cause but realize the score needs to be 230+. Many of you will probably tell me to forget about applying to Ortho considering my situation, but I ask all those with faith, what are my chances of getting into an Ortho program somewhere if say I get 230 on USMLE's, have a good application, and really dont care where I get in (Im doing for the love and not convenience) I am hellbent on trying till I get somewhere? I am a bull, i have a hard head, Orthopedics is the only thing i see myself doing in medicine, Id rather be in an another feild than be forced to forget ortho and pick a by the way specialty. I am willing to tell myself how much i like the taste of crap everyday till i get somewhere.
Any comments or advise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
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You know what... I'll be there have been a number of things that people have told you you could not do. Well, it sure sounds like you are determined and that will show up in test scores, interviews, personal statements. My husband is applying to orthopedics, and it is a different kind of program. If you are as hard headed and determined as you seem, if you can talk the talk and walk the walk, then study your butt off and get great USMLE scores. I'd say that 230 is fine, but 240s are even better. Go above and beyond... do some ortho research... do several rotations at ortho programs that you are interested in... and while you are there be the hardest worker and best buddy to everyone. If this is your dream don't settle for anything less.
 
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Debridement said:
actually, yes, i do. i tell EVERYONE the truth, especially the patients. i dont ever let people believe something that is not true. i dont paint rosey pictures for them, i dont suggest that good things will happen when they are likely not going to, and i dont tell them that they're going to have a normal leg after a IIIC tibia. i tell them the unbiased truth and the odds as i know them best. i spell out all of the risks, benifits and liklihoods of each.

by your tone and example, you clearly demonstrate your ignorance of both ortho and medicine. there is a huge debate in ortho about whether people are better off with amputations after bad LE frx and there's a lot of evidence that says that some are

so am i a prick? maybe to you who live in the land of fairy tales and puppy dog tails, who think that a wish on a star will summon a flying unicorn. i know that my pts appriciate the realism and that i am straighforward and honest with them. in the end, they often end up with what they expected and you know what--most are pretty ok with it.

so get out of my face, dont question me, i dominate you

DB out
Click to expand...


I like your honesty. Tell me, does age factor in when applying to an ortho residency? This was actually implied to me when I was still interviewing to get into med school and I told them that ortho was my interest. They basically told me to be realistic and aim for something else.
 
vicksx44 said:
I like your honesty. Tell me, does age factor in when applying to an ortho residency? This was actually implied to me when I was still interviewing to get into med school and I told them that ortho was my interest. They basically told me to be realistic and aim for something else.
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It's interesting you brought this up, because I met with a program director and that was actually one of his concerns as well, I would be 35 when applying for ortho residencies, and was wondering if I would be able to keep up. I was kind of caught off guard by it, but assured him that I've worked for very busy orthopods as a PA, done all the call stuff, (we were on 1:3), etc and knew it would be physically demanding but was confident I could do it. Obviously legally they can't make those decisions based on age, you just have to show them you can do it I guess.
 
What would you say someone's chances are without any 3rd year honors? (all high passes)

Step 1 score is well above average.
 
discontinuebed said:
What would you say someone's chances are without any 3rd year honors? (all high passes)

Step 1 score is well above average.
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You will get interviews if you have a score well above average (~>235), but it may be an uphill battle without at least honoring a few clerkships, esp. Surgery.

My philosophy for you to get a residency spot...

Find out why you didn't get Os in your 3rd year classes (low Shelf scores or less than stellar reviews? both?). Get honest/brutal feedback from attendings and residents. It may be you need to tone down/up a part of your personality (I don't know you, don't flame me).

ROCK your ortho electives! Get Great LORs.

Do a few aways. One at a reach, one/two at "safety" programs.

Apply to lots of places including community programs, especially places in your region of the country.

Do very well on STEP 2 early to make up for less than stellar grades!

Have something unique about you. Former athlete? Musician? Hula Dancer?

Have interests outside of medicine and put them on your application. EVERY interview wanted to know about what I do outside of medicine...

For interviews: GO to the Pre-interview social and BE SOCIAL! Stick around for a while. Talk to everybody, not just the residents. Have some beers, but know your limit! Take cues from the residents. If they are big partiers, you will kind of wanna fit in. If not, moderate your EtOH intake. You might wanna practice ahead of time so you are not sloshed after 3 beers!

Don't be a douche;) (again, not that you are)
 
went to us med school, got btw 190-200 step 1, have 6 publications in ortho, had 1 HP first two years, honored surgery, HP everything else. if i do significantly better say >220 on step 2 in july do i have any shot in gettin an ortho placement or am i just wasting my time.
 
I would think with that Step I that you would have to DOMINATE Step II, like 250's inorder to get a look at, even with your research etc. Most people say that there is a 230 Step I cutoff for most programs to consider you for interviewing. Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
premiergator said:
went to us med school, got btw 190-200 step 1, have 6 publications in ortho, had 1 HP first two years, honored surgery, HP everything else. if i do significantly better say >220 on step 2 in july do i have any shot in gettin an ortho placement or am i just wasting my time.
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I don't know if you are wasting your time. Your best bet would be to schedule an appointment with your Dean of Student Services and the Chair of your Ortho dept and sit down to discuss your situation.

I met with both this past week at my institution. I've got a 222 and middle of my class, with Ortho research. I was very happy with the advice they gave me. The Chair specifically told me they rarely interview people with less then a 215, but he is not opposed if the right person comes around. Talk to these people and get some feedback. Then make your decision.

As for the 230 cutoff for interviews. It is true, there are some programs that do have higher cutoffs. But, there are also a lot of programs that have a cutoff of 205-215. Good luck.
 
premiergator said:
went to us med school, got btw 190-200 step 1, have 6 publications in ortho, had 1 HP first two years, honored surgery, HP everything else. if i do significantly better say >220 on step 2 in july do i have any shot in gettin an ortho placement or am i just wasting my time.
Click to expand...

ok premiergator .. if your score is below 200 you are well below the mean of about 215. do you have a chance? yes, but not a great one. you best bet is to chose your away rotations at places you think you have a shot. people who know you are more likely to take a chance. for those who have cut offs, i don't know of any that are below the national mean. the hardest step for you will be getting in the door for the interviews.

i am about being realistic. if you look at the match rate for non-matching applicants, it decreases the further away from the national average. in 2007, the percentage matching with board scores <200 was 28.6%, for 201-210 53.6%, and for 211-220 73.4%. there are the numbers, taking the risk is up to you.
 
PediBoneDoc said:
ok premiergator .. if your score is below 200 you are well below the mean of about 215. do you have a chance? yes, but not a great one. you best bet is to chose your away rotations at places you think you have a shot. people who know you are more likely to take a chance. for those who have cut offs, i don't know of any that are below the national mean. the hardest step for you will be getting in the door for the interviews.

i am about being realistic. if you look at the match rate for non-matching applicants, it decreases the further away from the national average. in 2007, the percentage matching with board scores <200 was 28.6%, for 201-210 53.6%, and for 211-220 73.4%. there are the numbers, taking the risk is up to you.
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For premiergator, in 2007, only 10/28 (= 35.7%) US seniors applying for ortho matched with a Step 1 score between 191-200. This means that your chances aren't great, but not impossible. If you're set on ortho, I would:
- get in touch with your PD/chair, and any other ortho faculty that are supportive of students to explain your situation & map out a plan
- rock Step 2
- honor all your clerkships from here on out
- do as many sub-I's as possible *at institutions that would offer you an interview despite your Step 1 score*. Essentially, this means not going after the "top tier" places lik HJD. The last thing you want is to waste an away rotation at Program X only to have them not even offer you an interview.
- be an awesome sub-I at each location. Act like it's a 4 (or 2) week interivew. Be enthusiastic, respectful, easy-going, and hard-working.
- apply to as many programs as you possibly can. I know a friend who scored in the 220s and applied to >70 programs (and he successfully matched!). This will maximize your chances to get interviews.
- act like every interview you get is your only one
- have a back-up, whether that's another specialty altogether, a research year, or a prelim gen surg year

Alright, hope that helps. Good luck!

P.S. The average Step 1 score for matched US seniors into ortho in 2007 was 234, NOT 215 as another poster said.
 
Is not having any published research going to hurt my application?

I have research experience in ortho at a nationally known clinic. I was a research coordinator and clinical assistant for 3 projects performed at this clinic, however they were huge multi site projects, so none of them have my name on them. I also have letters of recommendation from an ortho surgeon at that clinic and from the ex-VP of DePuy who now leads the clinic's research.

Do you think this will make up for not having my name on anything?
 
Blesbok said:
Is not having any published research going to hurt my application?

I have research experience in ortho at a nationally known clinic. I was a research coordinator and clinical assistant for 3 projects performed at this clinic, however they were huge multi site projects, so none of them have my name on them. I also have letters of recommendation from an ortho surgeon at that clinic and from the ex-VP of DePuy who now leads the clinic's research.

Do you think this will make up for not having my name on anything?
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Blesbok, take a look at the most recent data from NRMP:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf (not sure when NRMP will publish 2008 data).

For US seniors:
1-5 research projects (the category you seem to fall into): 515/633 (81%) matched!
0 abstracts/presentations/pubs (ditto): 182/254 (72%) matched!

Based on these statistics alone, it's definitely doable for you to get into ortho. Just make sure the rest of your application is as awesome as possible (Step 1, clinical grades, Step 2, LORs), absolutely rock your AIs, and apply very broadly in order to maximize your chances.

Hope this helps!
 
JayDub08 said:
P.S. The average Step 1 score for matched US seniors into ortho in 2007 was 234, NOT 215 as another poster said.
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i think this was in reference to my posting about the mean being around 215. that would be the national mean. previously the national mean for a year would be closer to 200 with a standard deviation of around 20. now the national mean is higher with a standard deviation of who knows.

the ortho mean varies, but has consistently stayed over 230 for the last few years. this is almost 1 standard deviation above the mean (84th percentile). these are just estimations because they don't give us the numbers any more.
 
PediBoneDoc said:
i think this was in reference to my posting about the mean being around 215. that would be the national mean. previously the national mean for a year would be closer to 200 with a standard deviation of around 20. now the national mean is higher with a standard deviation of who knows.

the ortho mean varies, but has consistently stayed over 230 for the last few years. this is almost 1 standard deviation above the mean (84th percentile). these are just estimations because they don't give us the numbers any more.
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The current administration of the exam had a mean of 218 and sd of 23.
 
....
 
Last edited:
worry about getting into medical school first. work on your 5 step drop.
 
Hi, I'm a third year and wondering what are my chances for ortho. I had 250+ Step 1, AoA as a junior, and lots of activities. I honored most of my 1 and 2nd year and did not honor as many in my rotations as I could because my problem is that I'm a little too quiet and does not like to suck up so my clinical grades are not great but written reviews are excellent. I also did not do research in medical school but did some in undergrad and I did medical missions instead. I'm very diligent and does well once I get to know the people but I am wondering how I would do since i'm more of a quiet type.

Thanks for the reply
 
Gieve said:
Hi, I'm a third year and wondering what are my chances for ortho. I had 250+ Step 1, AoA as a junior, and lots of activities. I honored most of my 1 and 2nd year and did not honor as many in my rotations as I could because my problem is that I'm a little too quiet and does not like to suck up so my clinical grades are not great but written reviews are excellent. I also did not do research in medical school but did some in undergrad and I did medical missions instead. I'm very diligent and does well once I get to know the people but I am wondering how I would do since i'm more of a quiet type.

Thanks for the reply
Click to expand...

You need to re-read your post a couple times.
 
Hate to rehash a thread just for a 'what are my chances', but i always hope my queries can help others too.

Low step 1 score (for ortho) = 225

I am not very deep into 3rd year rotations, have yet to do surgery, and will have time to do research right before residency apps (~3-4 mos.). I just want to know my chances, and everything and anything i should do to match at a quality program. I have time, no life, and a strong desire to do ortho. Please help me.
 
gosh, aren't these boards great?

i'm worried. i only got a 265 on step I, junior AOA and helped find a cure for rheumatoid arthritis. i really want to do ortho. can you help me with my chances? - posted by some douche with 3 other posts

in other news, i believe your best chances to match are at your home program and where you rotate. so if you have a 220's, work hard at your home program and rotate at some places that don't but too much emphasis on numbers and but some weight on work ethic. where are these places? you need to ask around.

stuck for resources? find out where people from your school matched for the past 2 years and email them. they will probably be willing to help an future fellow alumni. also ask current 4th years at your program and current resident... but don't send out a mass email - ask them personally!
 
i normally hate posting in these types of threads, but i figure any advice is good advice.

-DO student at TCOM
-USMLE step1 = 240/99
-8 or 9 orthopedics publications, 1 podium and a few poster presentations at AAOS and TOA conferences and have worked in ortho research for a few years
-top 25% of my class (was ranked 12/160 after MS1 but don't know how much i've moved in MS2)
-will be able to at least do a sub-I at JPS and UTMB (tried at UTSW but my mentor there flat out said no)
-just started rotations but my school doesn't do honors, only p/f with a recorded numerical grade (so i'm going to try to rock my shelfs and clinicals)

i am generally extroverted and social w/o being obnoxious and usually get along with residents, attendings, nurses, etc. i know i should probably take step2 in june/july and make sure i do well on that, but my question here is whether i need to do anything else beyond my current plan during MS3?
 
Why do you need to take Step 2 early?


doogoshly said:
i normally hate posting in these types of threads, but i figure any advice is good advice.

-DO student at TCOM
-USMLE step1 = 240/99
-8 or 9 orthopedics publications, 1 podium and a few poster presentations at AAOS and TOA conferences and have worked in ortho research for a few years
-top 25% of my class (was ranked 12/160 after MS1 but don't know how much i've moved in MS2)
-will be able to at least do a sub-I at JPS and UTMB (tried at UTSW but my mentor there flat out said no)
-just started rotations but my school doesn't do honors, only p/f with a recorded numerical grade (so i'm going to try to rock my shelfs and clinicals)

i am generally extroverted and social w/o being obnoxious and usually get along with residents, attendings, nurses, etc. i know i should probably take step2 in june/july and make sure i do well on that, but my question here is whether i need to do anything else beyond my current plan during MS3?
Click to expand...
 
actually i'm not quite sure. people are always saying you should take step2 early if you need an extra boost to your app (provided you do well). i figure as a DO applying to MD residencies, i'll need as many boosts as i can get.
 
doogoshly said:
actually i'm not quite sure. people are always saying you should take step2 early if you need an extra boost to your app (provided you do well). i figure as a DO applying to MD residencies, i'll need as many boosts as i can get.
Click to expand...

I took it early for your reasoning exactly listed above. As a DO applying MD, I guess I needed to try and put everything that I can control on the table and maximize it as much as possible.
 
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I have been checking out other posts and NRMP 2007 info, but am just curious to see what others think about chances for 2011 with competition going up. As a starting third year, I am interested in ortho among other fields (have shadowed an ortho doc b4 med school and during first summer) and would like to hear how realistic of a chance do I have; and to what sort of residency program should I be expecting to get in if any.

-usmle score in mid 234
-gpa 3.4something
-submitting a case study to be published in an ortho journal (not sure which author i'll be altho I wrote it all) and possibly write up and get another case study published)
-I think I am top 50%, possibly 25% of my class
-med school ranking on the bottom end of MD school rankings
-doing quite well in first general rotations so far and intend to continue trying to do well

thanks for all the input/help
 
calvinNhobbes said:
You have a 68% chance of matching to any ortho program, and a 23% chance of matching to a top tier program.
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Your point is made. :)

I'm curious, why are the ortho boards some of the least active boards on SDN? I can check once a month and not miss a thing!
 
So...I am currently an M1 at UCSD and am very interested in pursuing ortho. I hae already begun searching for summer research opportunities around the country; however, one fellow at Mayo told me it might not be a bad idea to focus research opportunities here. His reasonsing was that this would allow me to develop a rapport with residents and attendings before my rotation and only allow me to enhance it when I begin clinicals and so forth. I see the value in this, but what if one knows he/she would like to go elsewhere for residency?

Any feedback would be awesome!!!!

Thanks guy and gals...

much respect...

riceman04
 
riceman04 said:
So...I am currently an M1 at UCSD and am very interested in pursuing ortho. I hae already begun searching for summer research opportunities around the country; however, one fellow at Mayo told me it might not be a bad idea to focus research opportunities here. His reasonsing was that this would allow me to develop a rapport with residents and attendings before my rotation and only allow me to enhance it when I begin clinicals and so forth. I see the value in this, but what if one knows he/she would like to go elsewhere for residency?

Any feedback would be awesome!!!!

Thanks guy and gals...

much respect...

riceman04
Click to expand...


Well you're a first year medical student, so I seriously doubt that you know you want to go elsewhere. In fact, I doubt you KNOW you want to do ortho.

If you do, in fact, wish to pursue ortho then you are going to need solid evaluations and letters of recomendation from attendings at your program down the road. Doing research at UCSD vs another program wouldn't be a bad idea to facilitate this. It's a pretty solid program.

Basically what I'm trying to say is why go halfway across the country when you can do research at a top institution at home?
 
I'm contemplating where to go to med school, and am wondering which out of the above schools would be best when applying for residency programs in either orthopedic or plastic surgery. Thanks in advance.
 
cthruscrubs said:
I'm contemplating where to go to med school, and am wondering which out of the above schools would be best when applying for residency programs in either orthopedic or plastic surgery. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Neither. Try HUMC.
 
cthruscrubs said:
I'm contemplating where to go to med school, and am wondering which out of the above schools would be best when applying for residency programs in either orthopedic or plastic surgery. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Maybe you've already made your decision, but either are great schools and will afford you the opportunity to obtain a residency in whatever field you choose, provided you do well. I would go to the place that is the cheapest for you and is in a place that you would like to live.

I cannot comment specifically about Vanderbilt, but I am student at the UW and applied to ortho and I am awaiting match results. Feel free to forward any questions to me.
 
:xf:
Current 3rd year
step 1: 211
class ranK: top half
3rd yr clerkships: 2 PC+ and 2 H so far, currently on surg
inspiration: scholarship collegiate athlete- basketball (mvp of team, voted player of the year in conference)
non-ortho research (case reports, chart reviews, etc)
volunteer: lots of time spent at Shriner's and working sports events at my school
 
bball25 said:
:xf:
Current 3rd year
step 1: 211
class ranK: top half
3rd yr clerkships: 2 PC+ and 2 H so far, currently on surg
inspiration: scholarship collegiate athlete- basketball (mvp of team, voted player of the year in conference)
non-ortho research (case reports, chart reviews, etc)
volunteer: lots of time spent at Shriner's and working sports events at my school
Click to expand...

Your chances are not good.
 
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