Optoms propose bill, fight to prescribe PO steroids and narcotics in GA

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"dude let me get this straight"...do you understand what sarcasm is? you and all of your buddies on here don't read well. wow, you guys are dumb..re-read the post dude. it was SARCASM, kid went straight to the ED. the metformin was meant to be ironical due to the fact that "i am to stupid to know what to do to manage that situation as per (residents?) claim. There was no metformin involved. man what a waste of typing on your part. seriously re-read the post and use all or you reading comprehension skills. your a resident...holy crap.

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this is really eye opening. and yes please ban me for giving a different perspective, heaven forbid a perspective you don't agree with or believe.
 
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"Sometimes I think that all of the nonphysicians seeking full professional autonomy should just get what they're seeking, because patients will eventually realize the value of seeing physicians. But, situations like the one you mentioned, make me question that stance, because it endangers patients. Plain and simple."

for anyone who cares (i doubt anyone does) hell, i don't even care at this point. this thread started by me stating truthfully, what optometrists including myself (no not a schrunek or whatever in training), have been doing in California and many many other states for 10+ years, what the OP was so aghast about. i just simply wanted to know where all the dead bodies have been hidden?

I apologize that it devolved into what it did..but man some of you guys/gals really need some real world experience before commenting.
 
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we've established that Blais has no concept of sarcasm, read "i've been doing this for 10 years and no one is dead" as inflammatory???. we also have established Blais has no idea what the hell he is talking about. no frame of reference for real world inter-professional relations, and no ocular clinical or even didactic knowledge. So....

in response to who was it ophtho4 something...i understand your post completely, what you fail to understand, and obviously have no clue about is my training. How are you so confident that you know my training better that I know my training. see this is what pisses me off. I would never be so arrogant as to presume to know your training. are you a practicing ophthalmologist? please tell me.

i did not do an eye exam on someone with a bs of 700. a 14 year old girl was brought into my clinic by her parents who were scared to death because she had suddenly lost her vision. took a quick look through slit lamp and 14 yr old with completely opacified lenses. hmmm i relied on my completely inadequate training and took a random blood glucose in the office wow is 700 high i don't know, didn't do a 6 week endocrine rotation what to do, what to do?? then I thought maybe 700 is high in fact so high that it caused her sudden cataracts and the opaque crystalline lens could have caused her sudden vision loss. couldn't see the retina through opaque lens and I don't have a B-scan to check the retina at my office but i wasn't trained to use those so i just went on a hunch. guess what i did, i did what every ophthalmologist would do i started her on metformin and had her follow up in two weeks? no, straight to ED.

look Ophtho4 in the spirit of friendship lets play a game. you name a non surgical ocular condition and i will tell you how my shi$$y training has allowed me to hurt patients. then we can compare that to what any private practice ophthalmologist would do. you may wonder why i keep saying private practice ophthalmologist. you see we have to run a business and don't necessarily have the money for every fancy instrument, or the time to opine in cohort all of the differentials and run every damn test on the planet. I have a spectral domain OCT post/ant seg, a fundus camera, HVF, pachymeter, topographer, and all the other basics. want to play??

re-posted for the benefit of the resident

went straight to ED aka ER
 
jeeze, this is frickin embarrassing *smacks palm to forehead*
 
its been real etherbunny
 
I think its good to hear from your perspective practicing in a state where your scope includes those meds. But might go better next time to more or less take the flamethrowers with a grain of salt as the post devolved quickly.

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sorry you're right, but some of it was low hanging fruit...just to tempting to screw with some of these pre-meds?/med students?/...didn't anticipate residents? I'm all about civil discourse, but I did get sucked in.
 
its been real etherbunny

My bad. I misinterpreted what you said. I had a hard time figuring out what the f*#k you were trying to say, mostly because your syntax is atrocious--question marks after statements, verbs and subjects missing, stream of consciousness. But whatever. I glanced at your post while I was in the operating room with my attention somewhat divided, and I jumped to the wrong conclusion. So shoot me.

Nonetheless, you sound like a complete jackass. I'm surprised the mod hasn't banned you yet. Initially I was pissed off by your comments, but then I realized that you're just a f*#*ing optometrist. I don't really give a **** what you think because you're not a real doctor.

People like yourself remind me of this episode of Millionaire Matchmaker that I watched with my wife a few months ago. Basically this guy was asked about his career by one of the millionaires and his response was, "I'm a doctor." When he was asked what kind of doctor, he responded with something to the effect that he managed the medications for patients in the hospital, keeping things vague of course. On further questioning, he said that he was a pharmacist. The millionaire then proceeded to make fun of him for not being a "real" doctor.

Optometrists like yourself seem to crave the respect and privileges that come with being a physician. However, obviously you were not willing to put forth the necessary time and effort to become a physician. There are HUGE sacrifices associated with becoming a physician--sacrifices that you never endured.

You never took the MCAT. You never went through the cutthroat admissions process for medical school and you never experienced the painful grind of medical school--the sleepless nights, the extraordinary volume of material, the stress of exams. You never sweated through the 9 hour experience known as Step 1 of the USMLE. Nor did you ever sit through the 9 hour USMLE Step 2 CK, or the 8 hour USMLE Step 2 CS, or the 16 hour USMLE Step III exam. You didn't go through the endless pimping by attendings on rounds during medical school, internship, and residency.

You've never been on overnight call in the ICU every fourth night. You have no clue what it means to round on patients. You've never been in the operating room as a surgeon or a surgeon's first assist. You don't know what it's like to be responsible for an ICU full of critically ill patients as an intern or resident. You sent a patient to the ER. Have you ever actually rotated through the ER as a doctor? I have.

The bottom line is that, comparatively speaking, your inflated sense of accomplishment doesn't mean very much, certainly not to me. Optometry is a respectable field, but don't fool yourself into thinking that it's on par with the education of a physician. Optometry and medicine are vastly different in terms of barriers to entry, rigor of education and competency assessment, and overall length of training. In every category, medicine dwarfs optometry.


As a senior resident on the verge of graduation, I'm one of the select few who actually made it through the grueling process of becoming a physician. I made the cut for a top ten medical school. I graduated in the top 25% of my class. I scored in the 99th percentile on the USMLE. I matched into a highly competitive surgical subspecialty at one of the premier programs in the country. I have a fellowship lined up at one of the most respected institutions in the world.

You can deride me all you want, but the truth of the matter is that in a few short months, I'll be a board certified physician. I'll be one of the REAL doctors that you so desperately want to be equated to. I made the requisite sacrifice to be a physician. You didn't.

End of discussion.
 
These threads are a waste of time. We're obviously not going to be able to convince optometrists that they should stick to glasses and contact lenses and they're obviously not going to be able to convince us that they should manage pathology or operate.

In the end it doesn't really matter. Our problems are much bigger. Optometry is already doing a great job of destroying their job opportunities by constantly opening up new optometry schools. Optometrists, like pharmacists, used to commonly own their own practices; now they're mostly employees at Walmart (as an aside, can you imagine how happy Walmart's executives would be if their optometrists could legally perform LASIK?). Physicians need to worry most about falling to a similar fate at the hands of hospitals and ACOs. Ophthalmologists, like optoms and all other physicians are watching their reimbursements decline, their autonomy decrease, and the further corporatization of medicine at the hands of those who care only about making a profit off of us. And while I agree with fighting optometry in their pointless quest to expand their scope of practice, this is far from our biggest problem.
 
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My bad. I misinterpreted what you said. I had a hard time figuring out what the f*#k you were trying to say, mostly because your syntax is atrocious--question marks after statements, verbs and subjects missing, stream of consciousness. But whatever. I glanced at your post while I was in the operating room with my attention somewhat divided, and I jumped to the wrong conclusion. So shoot me.

Nonetheless, you sound like a complete jackass. I'm surprised the mod hasn't banned you yet. Initially I was pissed off by your comments, but then I realized that you're just a f*#*ing optometrist. I don't really give a **** what you think because you're not a real doctor.

People like yourself remind me of this episode of Millionaire Matchmaker that I watched with my wife a few months ago. Basically this guy was asked about his career by one of the millionaires and his response was, "I'm a doctor." When he was asked what kind of doctor, he responded with something to the effect that he managed the medications for patients in the hospital, keeping things vague of course. On further questioning, he said that he was a pharmacist. The millionaire then proceeded to make fun of him for not being a "real" doctor.

Optometrists like yourself seem to crave the respect and privileges that come with being a physician. However, obviously you were not willing to put forth the necessary time and effort to become a physician. There are HUGE sacrifices associated with becoming a physician--sacrifices that you never endured.

You never took the MCAT. You never went through the cutthroat admissions process for medical school and you never experienced the painful grind of medical school--the sleepless nights, the extraordinary volume of material, the stress of exams. You never sweated through the 9 hour experience known as Step 1 of the USMLE. Nor did you ever sit through the 9 hour USMLE Step 2 CK, or the 8 hour USMLE Step 2 CS, or the 16 hour USMLE Step III exam. You didn't go through the endless pimping by attendings on rounds during medical school, internship, and residency.

You've never been on overnight call in the ICU every fourth night. You have no clue what it means to round on patients. You've never been in the operating room as a surgeon or a surgeon's first assist. You don't know what it's like to be responsible for an ICU full of critically ill patients as an intern or resident. You sent a patient to the ER. Have you ever actually rotated through the ER as a doctor? I have.

The bottom line is that, comparatively speaking, your inflated sense of accomplishment doesn't mean very much, certainly not to me. Optometry is a respectable field, but don't fool yourself into thinking that it's on par with the education of a physician. Optometry and medicine are vastly different in terms of barriers to entry, rigor of education and competency assessment, and overall length of training. In every category, medicine dwarfs optometry.


As a senior resident on the verge of graduation, I'm one of the select few who actually made it through the grueling process of becoming a physician. I made the cut for a top ten medical school. I graduated in the top 25% of my class. I scored in the 99th percentile on the USMLE. I matched into a highly competitive surgical subspecialty at one of the premier programs in the country. I have a fellowship lined up at one of the most respected institutions in the world.

You can deride me all you want, but the truth of the matter is that in a few short months, I'll be a board certified physician. I'll be one of the REAL doctors that you so desperately want to be equated to. I made the requisite sacrifice to be a physician. You didn't.

End of discussion.

Bravo etherbunny, Bravo.

indeed, compared to this last post of yours I do sound like a complete jack-ass. initially i was pissed off by your comments, but then I realized you're just a douche.

end of discussion.
 
My bad. I misinterpreted what you said. I had a hard time figuring out what the f*#k you were trying to say, mostly because your syntax is atrocious--question marks after statements, verbs and subjects missing, stream of consciousness. But whatever. I glanced at your post while I was in the operating room with my attention somewhat divided, and I jumped to the wrong conclusion. So shoot me.

Nonetheless, you sound like a complete jackass. I'm surprised the mod hasn't banned you yet. Initially I was pissed off by your comments, but then I realized that you're just a f*#*ing optometrist. I don't really give a **** what you think because you're not a real doctor.

People like yourself remind me of this episode of Millionaire Matchmaker that I watched with my wife a few months ago. Basically this guy was asked about his career by one of the millionaires and his response was, "I'm a doctor." When he was asked what kind of doctor, he responded with something to the effect that he managed the medications for patients in the hospital, keeping things vague of course. On further questioning, he said that he was a pharmacist. The millionaire then proceeded to make fun of him for not being a "real" doctor.

Optometrists like yourself seem to crave the respect and privileges that come with being a physician. However, obviously you were not willing to put forth the necessary time and effort to become a physician. There are HUGE sacrifices associated with becoming a physician--sacrifices that you never endured.

You never took the MCAT. You never went through the cutthroat admissions process for medical school and you never experienced the painful grind of medical school--the sleepless nights, the extraordinary volume of material, the stress of exams. You never sweated through the 9 hour experience known as Step 1 of the USMLE. Nor did you ever sit through the 9 hour USMLE Step 2 CK, or the 8 hour USMLE Step 2 CS, or the 16 hour USMLE Step III exam. You didn't go through the endless pimping by attendings on rounds during medical school, internship, and residency.

You've never been on overnight call in the ICU every fourth night. You have no clue what it means to round on patients. You've never been in the operating room as a surgeon or a surgeon's first assist. You don't know what it's like to be responsible for an ICU full of critically ill patients as an intern or resident. You sent a patient to the ER. Have you ever actually rotated through the ER as a doctor? I have.

The bottom line is that, comparatively speaking, your inflated sense of accomplishment doesn't mean very much, certainly not to me. Optometry is a respectable field, but don't fool yourself into thinking that it's on par with the education of a physician. Optometry and medicine are vastly different in terms of barriers to entry, rigor of education and competency assessment, and overall length of training. In every category, medicine dwarfs optometry.


As a senior resident on the verge of graduation, I'm one of the select few who actually made it through the grueling process of becoming a physician. I made the cut for a top ten medical school. I graduated in the top 25% of my class. I scored in the 99th percentile on the USMLE. I matched into a highly competitive surgical subspecialty at one of the premier programs in the country. I have a fellowship lined up at one of the most respected institutions in the world.

You can deride me all you want, but the truth of the matter is that in a few short months, I'll be a board certified physician. I'll be one of the REAL doctors that you so desperately want to be equated to. I made the requisite sacrifice to be a physician. You didn't.

End of discussion.

Dannnnnggg SMACKDOWN. I've never seen such destruction.

Don't worry about banning Future Schnurek. You just destroyed him so bad that he'll never show his face around these parts ever again. You probably made him so depressed about his job that' he's quitting his job and returning to school to become a real doctor. Or you simply ruined his life and will make him end up homeless.

Good riddens, Future Schnurek.

Btw, in case you need some definitions. Schnurek = bitter optometry student. Future Schnurek = 10x more bitter practicing optometrist.
 
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Keep it civil please.

This forum is for ophthalmologists and students interested in ophthalmology. Posting in a specialty forum with intent to inflame is a TOS violation.
 
I don't really give a **** what you think because you're not a real doctor.

People like yourself remind me of this episode of Millionaire Matchmaker that I watched with my wife a few months ago. Basically this guy was asked about his career by one of the millionaires and his response was, "I'm a doctor." When he was asked what kind of doctor, he responded with something to the effect that he managed the medications for patients in the hospital, keeping things vague of course. On further questioning, he said that he was a pharmacist. The millionaire then proceeded to make fun of him for not being a "real" doctor.

Optometrists like yourself seem to crave the respect and privileges that come with being a physician. However, obviously you were not willing to put forth the necessary time and effort to become a physician. There are HUGE sacrifices associated with becoming a physician--sacrifices that you never endured.

You never took the MCAT. You never went through the cutthroat admissions process for medical school and you never experienced the painful grind of medical school--the sleepless nights, the extraordinary volume of material, the stress of exams. You never sweated through the 9 hour experience known as Step 1 of the USMLE. Nor did you ever sit through the 9 hour USMLE Step 2 CK, or the 8 hour USMLE Step 2 CS, or the 16 hour USMLE Step III exam. You didn't go through the endless pimping by attendings on rounds during medical school, internship, and residency.

You've never been on overnight call in the ICU every fourth night. You have no clue what it means to round on patients. You've never been in the operating room as a surgeon or a surgeon's first assist. You don't know what it's like to be responsible for an ICU full of critically ill patients as an intern or resident. You sent a patient to the ER. Have you ever actually rotated through the ER as a doctor? I have.

The bottom line is that, comparatively speaking, your inflated sense of accomplishment doesn't mean very much, certainly not to me. Optometry is a respectable field, but don't fool yourself into thinking that it's on par with the education of a physician. Optometry and medicine are vastly different in terms of barriers to entry, rigor of education and competency assessment, and overall length of training. In every category, medicine dwarfs optometry.

As a senior resident on the verge of graduation, I'm one of the select few who actually made it through the grueling process of becoming a physician. I made the cut for a top ten medical school. I graduated in the top 25% of my class. I scored in the 99th percentile on the USMLE. I matched into a highly competitive surgical subspecialty at one of the premier programs in the country. I have a fellowship lined up at one of the most respected institutions in the world.

You can deride me all you want, but the truth of the matter is that in a few short months, I'll be a board certified physician. I'll be one of the REAL doctors that you so desperately want to be equated to. I made the requisite sacrifice to be a physician. You didn't.

This is quite odd but i think i actually saw that episode of Millionaire Matchmaker :oops:
But anyways, do you mean physician? instead of "real doctor"? By definition a doctor is just someone who has a doctorate level degree, lawyers and PhD professors are all considered doctors (even if you dont refer to them as such). Unless you've substituted real doctor with physician and this is whats accepted irl (dont know if it is) then i suppose that makes sense. I currently research in one of the top institutions/medical schools in the country (Top 20) and ive never hear of people referring to themselves as doctors. In the classes, whether its an MD or a PhD or an MD/PhD, theyre all addressed as Dr._______. I find that most just refer to themselves as cardiologists, ophthalmologists etc...Is that the norm?

I agree for sure that going to medical school is / appears to be a much more grueling process. But i think no one would argue that it isnt. Congrats on your success, even though i hope when you said " you were not willing to put forth the necessary time and effort to become a physician", you didnt mean that in a sense that they werent "good enough" to get into medical school.

Going a little off topic, but not intending to start a war, do you feel that medical school is much more challenging than dental school as well? Its obviously fine if you have no idea. I ask ONLY because a psychiatrist on the optometry forum has recently said that dental school was very close to being on par with medical school, i disagreed (there is probably one or two rare exceptions). Curious to know what you think because you are a resident and because you've compared medical school to optometry school.

These threads are a waste of time. We're obviously not going to be able to convince optometrists that they should stick to glasses and contact lenses and they're obviously not going to be able to convince us that they should manage pathology or operate.

In the end it doesn't really matter. Our problems are much bigger. Optometry is already doing a great job of destroying their job opportunities by constantly opening up new optometry schools. Optometrists, like pharmacists, used to commonly own their own practices; now they're mostly employees at Walmart (as an aside, can you imagine how happy Walmart's executives would be if their optometrists could legally perform LASIK?). Physicians need to worry most about falling to a similar fate at the hands of hospitals and ACOs. Ophthalmologists, like optoms and all other physicians are watching their reimbursements decline, their autonomy decrease, and the further corporatization of medicine at the hands of those who care only about making a profit off of us. And while I agree with fighting optometry in their pointless quest to expand their scope of practice, this is far from our biggest problem.

I think i learned a few things on this thread even though it did get out of hand, which is good for me personally. I agree though that these threads do turn into a waste. I do like your post for the most part (except for "going back to glasses and contacts", as a prospective optometry school applicant...id like to think they do a little more than sell glasses and contacts, atleast in a few settings :rolleyes:).

I was recently told by an ophthalmologist i met (where i research) that the "optometry vs ophthalmology battle" is more prevalent in the midwest areas, but from his experience not the saturated areas in the north east. What are your thoughts? I'd imagine from east's posts that its more friendly in the area he practices.

Well I'm not a real doctor either but I get paid like one so I'm totally cool with it. :)
Lol :thumbup: I shall now refer to you as the Jedi Master :D
 
Keep it civil please.

This forum is for ophthalmologists and students interested in ophthalmology. Posting in a specialty forum with intent to inflame is a TOS violation.

Thanks for that reminder Lee. But if you really wanted to uphold that rule with an iron fist you'd probably have to ban 20 accounts and close 25% of the threads here. Unfortunately this subforum is rife with people not so much interested in Ophthalmology as they are interested in arguing with Ophthalmologists and medical students.
 
As a senior resident on the verge of graduation, I'm one of the select few who actually made it through the grueling process of becoming a physician. I made the cut for a top ten medical school. I graduated in the top 25% of my class. I scored in the 99th percentile on the USMLE. I matched into a highly competitive surgical subspecialty at one of the premier programs in the country. I have a fellowship lined up at one of the most respected institutions in the world.

wow...

In all honesty...there is no doubt an ophthalmology residency provides superior ophthalmic training compared to optometry school. Whether the broad clinical knowledge gained during 4 years of medical school and internship is a necessary component of our education is debatable. Prescribing oral steroids or narcotics clearly does not require a medical degree; PA's and NP's prescribe oral medications without direct physician supervision all the time. Whether it's in the optometrist's scope of practice is another issue.

The vitriol and arrogance in this thread is nauseating. Medical training is grueling and engenders an inappropriate sense of superiority in many. At the end of the day, I can only hope my training helps me provide superior and compassionate care to my patients. Nobody really cares what's hanging on your wall.
 
Thanks for being rational. I do have to take issue with this:

Whether the broad clinical knowledge gained during 4 years of medical school and internship is a necessary component of our education is debatable.

This is what makes us doctors. We're invested in more than just the eyes.
 
I do want to apologize for some of my comments. I actually have great respect for MDs and what they go through in their grueling training. My point got lost in all of the venom spewing, both by me, and others. I don't believe optometrists are trained in any way for surgery, period. I do, however believe that I can manage my patients well according to my scope of practice, which has included oral steroids (used exceedingly rarely), and narcotics (ditto) for over 10 years. That was the title of the thread basically, how dare ODs think they can do this, and I was just sayin' I have done it for years along with thousands of other ODs, and not just my state but many states.

I am seriously sorry etherbunnny, I respect your effort and training.

My point was:
1) we don't spend 4 to 5 years in post-graduate school to learn how to refract. You know how long it took you to learn to refract. That's about how long we spend, maybe a bit more.

2) in my example of the 14 year old girl with the possibly steroid induced blood sugar spike and subsequent cataracts. I recognized the problem, took her blood sugar in the office, sent her to the ED. While true I did not rotate through the ER as a "doctor", I fail to see how that would have changed my management by sending her to the ER with a blood sugar of 700. I was not going to manage her in the ER and I doubt you as a private practice OMD would either. The example I gave was just one of hundreds of examples of serious medical conditions that walk into my office.

my question is, given your extensive training, what would you have done differently in that girl's situation? I follow standard of care in everything. Things like differentials for uveitis (labs etc), in bilateral swollen nerve heads secondary to hypertensive crisis, in GCA, HZV, HSV, Ulcers, Fuch's, CNV, poag, PDS, ICE, angle closure, TASS, endophthalmitis. I could go on and on. Obviously some of these conditions on the list I would refer immediately, but so would a general private practice OMD, I know I see them do it.

My point is that I have been trained to differentially diagnose and treat/refer/consult ocular conditions with or without systemic etiology.

In all seriousness, in most non-surgical ocular conditions, with systemic etiology, i am just wondering how would you manage it differently? i treat a lot of pathology in my practice, and have a great referral network, i guess i get a little touchy when it is assumed i am incompetent to do so when no one knows me or my situation.

I know, I can hear, you don't know what you don't know. But maybe many OMDs don't really know our training. just saying that's a possibility. maybe you don't how much many (not all, there are some really crappy ones)of us ODs out there know. Just saying it's a possibility

peace.
 
I think you are missing the forest for the trees

Nobody would have done anything different than send that girl to th ER. The earlier poster that got worked up about sending the girl to the ER was confused

The point that I want to make is twofold:

First, diagnosing diseases that require high dose systemic steroids is very compmicated. The differential for diseases that require systemic steroids includes infectious causes that can be worsened by steroids. You agree that many times these diagnoses are even out of the realm of expertise of even comprehensive ophthalmologists. As not havin fellowship training myself, I would not feel comfortable managing many of these conditions on my own. I do not think that optometrist should be diagnosing AND prescribing high dose steroids for these conditions on their own, either.

Second, OMDs have background in pharmocology and experience in prescribing steroids as part of their medical training. We also have experience in recognizing and managing the side effects of these medications. Even though ophthalmologists no longer treat things like diabetes/DKA/hyperosmotic coma, gastric bleeds, psychosis, pathological fractures, opportunistic infections, adreneegic crisis, etc they have experience with these diseases that, in my opinion, is a prerequisite for prescribing these medicines.

I don't believe that optoms only prescribe glasses. I know and respect their ability to diagnose and manage many ocular diseases.

As for the earlier post by a medical student, 4 years of med school and internship is ABSOLUTELY necessary to be a competent ophthalmologist.
 
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I think you are missing the forest for the trees

First, diagnosing diseases that require high dose systemic steroids is very compmicated. The differential for diseases that require systemic steroids includes infectious causes that can be worsened by steroids. You agree that many times these diagnoses are even out of the realm of expertise of even comprehensive ophthalmologists. As not havin fellowship training myself, I would not feel comfortable managing many of these conditions on my own. I do not think that optometrist should be diagnosing AND prescribing high dose steroids for these conditions on their own, either.

I don't really understand where I am missing the forest for the trees, could you explain how that is the case. How am I missing the larger issue while getting lost in the details?

I actually agree with you. for most optometrists the ability to prescribe certain medications it is unnecessary and probably a great many ODs would not even dare do it. for myself, on the rare occasions that oral steroids are needed, i make a phone call to one of the ophthalmologists i work with and prescribe in collaboration with them. this is due to the fact that i live in a fairly rural area, far away from any OMD, and the group of comprehensive ophthalmologists, and sub-specialty ophthalmologists trust me, in addition to the prohibitive travel time for some of my older patients, some of whom literally have no ride. as I have stated before my situation is pretty unique for optometry, so perhaps I am not the best to give general opinions on these matters. so you make a good point.

I think that many times in these scope expansion situations, there is hubris and arrogance on both sides. if we are all honest with ourselves, it involves money, power, and patient care/safety. I can only give an OD perspective and, but I think we probably tend to walk around with a little chip on our shoulders. our training seems to be belittled, disregarded, and downright disrespected on occasions, and we're like "hey we're an autonomous profession held to the same medical standard of care as an MD, and we have to grovel, and ask permission from another autonomous profession for the ability to rx things like latisse when we already rx lumigan". (just one example of many).

Throw in there the fact that a PCP with very little eye training can rx latisse, and treat "conjunctivitis" with gentamycin, and you get the patient in your office two days later with a screaming herpetic dendrite. we're like "screw you we shouldn't have to grovel and fight for every scrap. i'm not saying its justified or not, just giving my perspective. but in my opinion there is over-reach by ODs.

Look, I make great money doing what I love to do, i'm very content with my current scope, but with OD schools pumping out new grads like pez, this pie is shrinking fast, and my situation will not be the reality for the vast majority of OD grads. it is very sad. i am not involved in any leadership position in optometry, never have been, and never will be, but one of my theories is that scope expansion is pushed by organized optometry to give these new starving grads a shot to survive?? right or wrong. one thing is for sure although i do not agree with most of anything our leadership is doing, they will continue to push for scope expansion and continue to pump out new grads to keep their money and power, and this fight will continue on, and on, and on. sadly.
 
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I think that many times in these scope expansion situations, there is hubris and arrogance on both sides. if we are all honest with ourselves, it involves money, power, and patient care/safety. I can only give an OD perspective and, but I think we probably tend to walk around with a little chip on our shoulders. our training seems to be belittled, disregarded, and downright disrespected on occasions, and we're like "hey we're an autonomous profession held to the same medical standard of care as an MD, and we have to grovel, and ask permission from another autonomous profession for the ability to rx things like latisse when we already rx lumigan". (just one example of many).

Throw in there the fact that a PCP with very little eye training can rx latisse, and treat "conjunctivitis" with gentamycin, and you get the patient in your office two days later with a screaming herpetic dendrite. we're like "screw you we shouldn't have to grovel and fight for every scrap. i'm not saying its justified or not, just giving my perspective. but in my opinion there is over-reach by ODs.

Look, I make great money doing what I love to do, i'm very content with my current scope, but with OD schools pumping out new grads like pez, this pie is shrinking fast, and my situation will not be the reality for the vast majority of OD grads. it is very sad. i am not involved in any leadership position in optometry, never have been, and never will be, but one of my theories is that scope expansion is pushed by organized optometry to give these new starving grads a shot to survive?? right or wrong. one thing is for sure although i do not agree with most of anything our leadership is doing, they will continue to push for scope expansion and continue to pump out new grads to keep their money and power, and this fight will continue on, and on, and on. sadly.

:thumbup: I'm actually blown away that PCPs are comfortable with writing for latisse. I would not be comfortable writing the medication for a patient without an eye exam.
 
I think we probably tend to walk around with a little chip on our shoulders. our training seems to be belittled, disregarded, and downright disrespected on occasions.

Look, I make great money doing what I love to do, i'm very content with my current scope, but with OD schools pumping out new grads like pez, this pie is shrinking fast, and my situation will not be the reality for the vast majority of OD grads. it is very sad. i am not involved in any leadership position in optometry, never have been, and never will be, but one of my theories is that scope expansion is pushed by organized optometry to give these new starving grads a shot to survive?? right or wrong. one thing is for sure although i do not agree with most of anything our leadership is doing, they will continue to push for scope expansion and continue to pump out new grads to keep their money and power, and this fight will continue on, and on, and on. sadly.


If plan is to expand optometry scope in order to give the younger grads a chance to survive, it's a bad plan. If optometrist were able to do all the procedures that ophthalmologists do, the reimbursements for these procedures would drop like a rock. People will immediately say, "why should we pay so much if an optometrist who never went through medical school or several years of residency can do it?" Not to mention, it would flood the market with suppliers and Walmart would still employ the optoms and take their profits.

The only solutions for optometry is to limit the number of grads and to raise the standards for training.
 
it's not just a bad plan, it's a horrible plan. our "leadership" is driving optometry into the ground. reimbursements have already dropped like a rock for all of us, and with thousands of new "suppliers" of eye care, watch a drop that will incinerate private practice optometry. unfortunately for you guys, i can't see how this will not negatively affect ophthalmology some as well. we (optometry)have to close like 8 schools. will never happen by choice, but market forces just may cause it to happen?? one can only hope to survive until or IF this happens. it's sad but true that i'm just tryin' to "get mine and get out" while there is still something to get.
 
it's not just a bad plan, it's a horrible plan. our "leadership" is driving optometry into the ground. reimbursements have already dropped like a rock for all of us, and with thousands of new "suppliers" of eye care, watch a drop that will incinerate private practice optometry. unfortunately for you guys, i can't see how this will not negatively affect ophthalmology some as well. we (optometry)have to close like 8 schools. will never happen by choice, but market forces just may cause it to happen?? one can only hope to survive until or IF this happens. it's sad but true that i'm just tryin' to "get mine and get out" while there is still something to get.

Is it fair to say that the only ones who support the opening of new optometry schools are ODs who are involved in organized optometry & ODs who teach at or are involved in the administration of new optometry schools? If so, they represent what, 5-10% of all optometrists? It seems crazy to me that optometrists would allow a minority of its members to carry out plans that are against the best interests of the profession as a whole. Don't the rest of the 90% have a say?
 
yes that is fair to say. i can only speculate, but i think the lack of involvement by the vast majority of ODs can be attributed to ambivalence, ignorance to what is really going on, and a "i'll get mine while I can" attitude. it seems that there is some awakening occurring, and maybe some movement by non-organized optometry to change things...but i feel it is probably too little too late. there are too many relatively successful ODs, usually older ODs out there living in a bubble and clueless. one thing i have noticed is dissent against "leadership" gets crushed quickly. its gonna take a huge swell of dissent to make substantive positive change, and that will only occur when enough starving ODs show up at the door step. by then, i fear, it will sadly be too late.
 
Is it fair to say that the only ones who support the opening of new optometry schools are ODs who are involved in organized optometry & ODs who teach at or are involved in the administration of new optometry schools? If so, they represent what, 5-10% of all optometrists? It seems crazy to me that optometrists would allow a minority of its members to carry out plans that are against the best interests of the profession as a whole. Don't the rest of the 90% have a say?

It is not them exclusively but they do comprise a large amount of those advocating for more ODs. They don't do so for nefarious reasons. They are true believers. They actually think we have massive swatches of unserved areas and/or that the baby boomers will represent some sort of massive surge in optometric demand.

I of course, disagree. Lol.
 
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