Optoms propose bill, fight to prescribe PO steroids and narcotics in GA

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4ophtho

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Optoms have proposed a bill in GA that will give them the ability to prescribe PO steroids and PO narcotics in GA. It has passed the house and is awaiting hearing in the senate.

If this passes, its just a matter of time before some optom does some serious harm and/or kills someone by prescribing oral steroids hapharzardly.

Why in the world do they need to precribe oral steroids anyway?

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done it for 10+ years in California, and CA has a more restrictive scope than many other states. your deepest fears have already been realized and you didn't even know it....
 
so your definition of a serious issue is anything beyond getting a new eyeglass prescription? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Nope. Comment when you have a working knowledge of what I do all day, and have done for the last 10 years. you can be upset and feel that my scope is too broad, but guess what, it is LEGAL ( i know, i know we greased a ton of politicians bla, bla, bla.),and has been for many, many years. I do not sell myself to patients. I treat their problems, and when it falls out of my comfort zone (sometimes this is before my legal scope limit) then I refer and/or consult. by the way they all know I am an optometrist, and holy crap they are OK with me treating their glaucoma etc.. imagine that. Oh and they know ophthalmology is available. one comes to my office bi-weekly to do surgery consults. do your job well, and change the law if possible, but pissing and moaning about what has already happened is pointless.
 
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done it for 10+ years in California, and CA has a more restrictive scope than many other states. your deepest fears have already been realized and you didn't even know it....

They do a lot of backward things over there in CA, I'm not too surprised

My biggest fear isn't that optoms have more power, it's that they have more power than the knowledge and sense how to use it and that people get hurt because of it
 
Give me some examples of this happening (not random isolated anecdotes), that has not also happened to board certified Ophthlamologist.
Give me examples of Optometrists acting within their legal scope of practice, and show me that those problems and complications outnumber complications and problems that arise in an Ophthalmology practice, with a board certified Ophthalmologist practicing full scope medicine.
You can't. Your argument can not be proven. It is all hypothetical related to your bias.
Lets be clear, I am talking about non-surgical ( other than foreign body removal, plugs, epilation, LDIs) management of ocular and peri-ocular disease.
 
Yes California just came out of the 18th century... Georgia much more advanced as a society.
 
no just tired of people posting on here who don't know what they are talking about. it happens a lot both ways. seems much more ego driven on the MD side though. Its ok if you don't have a response to my post. fact is you probably can't respond in a substantive way so why bother posting in the first place?
 
after 3000 posts on here aren't you depressed?
 
Give me some examples of this happening (not random isolated anecdotes), that has not also happened to board certified Ophthlamologist.
Give me examples of Optometrists acting within their legal scope of practice, and show me that those problems and complications outnumber complications and problems that arise in an Ophthalmology practice, with a board certified Ophthalmologist practicing full scope medicine.
You can't. Your argument can not be proven. It is all hypothetical related to your bias.
Lets be clear, I am talking about non-surgical ( other than foreign body removal, plugs, epilation, LDIs) management of ocular and peri-ocular disease.

You're right, I can't prove your argument. Lack of "proof" doesn't mean that it's not valid.

I can prove, however, that ophthalmologist receive training in how to prescribe potentially lethal medicines like steroids, that ophthalmologists have been trained to understand the potential side effects of said drugs, and that they have been trained to manage complications of said medicines.

I can prove that ophthalmologists receive more intense training in handling potentially vision threatening conditions like temporal arteritis that require systemic steroids.

When was the last time you managed diabetes?

When was the last time your saw a patient with blood sugar near a thousand?

When was the last time you handled a diabetic in the ICU?

When was the last time you put a foot in a hospital other than as a visitor?

We are physicians, not just eye doctors. There is a monumental difference
 
so surgical management denotes serious ocular conditions? so managing with medication (drops, oral acetazolamide...sequels) an acute angle closure until a pi can be done 90 miles away is not serious? curious what emrgent surgery would be done on someone with chronic uveitis with vitritis 5 days post KPE? Guess what...oral steriods. neurotrophic ulcer secondary to HZV ophthalmicus..either not serious OR primary management would be surgical according to your logic. GCA?, we can wait on steriods its not serious, we'll just get that temporal artery biopsy done in two seeks. We could do lab testing but its not serious cause it doesn't require intra-ocular surgery. Central bacterial ulcer?? if we are not diong a corneal transplant surgery it must not be serious. The op says allowing optometrists to rx narcotics is just a step toward managing post-surgical pain?? How many OMDs out there routinely place their post-op cataract (most common surgery done by ophthalmology by far) patients on lortab? This is what I mean by people commenting on here who have no idea what they are talking about.
 
I didn't understand any of that rant
 
lack of proof doesn't mean its not valid, but it doesn't mean it is valid either. are you an ophthalmologist? If not the ask your average private practice ophthal some of those same questions you just asked me. you might be surprised by an honest answer. How many ophthal in private practice manage diabetes period, in an ICU? are u serious. i see blood sugars 400s + all the time. had a 14 year old last week 742 smoked her lenses in about 1 hour. I sent her to ophthalmology to manage her diabetes:laugh:. I know many ophthalmologists who have not set foot in a hospital in years, ever heard of outpatient surgical centers..in fact so popular many ophthalmologist are part owners in these little beauties. I would like you to prove the difference in management for GCA between OMD and OD who are both held to the same medical standard of care. come on lets all be honest..how many average private practice ophthals see temporal arteritis in their private practice so much that they don't do a little quick consult with Dr. Wills every now and then. I know this is true, I hang out with many cool ophthalmologists.
 
have a good trip Blais...you obviously have no response. its ok. its what happens when you get involved in a conversation of which you have no substantive knowledge.
 
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read it again 4ophtho, but I think you already got it. Surgery does not equal serious as Blais implied. Cmon you don't like examples?
 
I've gotta go for a bit and see a patient...maybe I can haphazardly prescribe some oral steriods, I just can't wait. Then I can pretend I'm a real doctor! cause after all it's not about the patient, it's about me!
 
read it again 4ophtho, but I think you already got it. Surgery does not equal serious as Blais implied. Cmon you don't like examples?

You have derailed
 
"My response was replying to the op's comment on optoms managing surgical patients. ("Serious")"...direct quote from Blais

and you have run out of arguments, and obviously cant answer my questions.
 
no just tired of people posting on here who don't know what they are talking about. it happens a lot both ways. seems much more ego driven on the MD side though. Its ok if you don't have a response to my post. fact is you probably can't respond in a substantive way so why bother posting in the first place?

As you may have guessed by his lack of clinical context and knowledge, Blais is a premed who hasn't even started med school yet. You can ignore him.
 
thanks airplanes, I know my limits, I do not want to do surgery, and I wish people who don't know what they are talking about would refrain from posting crap here. Ophthalmologists are better trained, and should be the only people doing eye surgery. It should remain this way if or until Optometry can demonstrate equivalent training. However, I am a good primary eye care provider and treat a vast array of medical eye conditions, calling me an eyeglass salesman is just stupid, and I am a great feeder of surgical and complex cases to my MD buddies. This is how it should be in my opinion, and I think in most cases it is this way. These kids posting need to wait until they get out in the real world and deal with interpersonal/professional relationships some before commenting.
 
Also, to airplanes, maybe you should go back and read my original post that you say to ignore. Not having completed med school doesn't prevent one from taking the pulse of their community ideals...and as I said, "my region prefers physician treatment".

And what makes you so qualified to assess "community ideals"? What on earth does that even mean? Have you surveyed every demographic in your community regarding this topic? And what is the asinine point you are trying to make about people wanting to be served by "doctors" ? ODs are by definition, Doctors of Optometry.

You have no idea how an optometric practice or optometric education works so please stop embarrassing yourself. Here's a hint: they don't spend 4 years learning how to prescribe glasses. OD's and MD's do work side by side in some practices and are allies in many respects. Where do you think most referrals come from, PCPs?
 
You're right, I can't prove your argument. Lack of "proof" doesn't mean that it's not valid.

I can prove, however, that ophthalmologist receive training in how to prescribe potentially lethal medicines like steroids, that ophthalmologists have been trained to understand the potential side effects of said drugs, and that they have been trained to manage complications of said medicines.

I can prove that ophthalmologists receive more intense training in handling potentially vision threatening conditions like temporal arteritis that require systemic steroids.

When was the last time you managed diabetes?

When was the last time your saw a patient with blood sugar near a thousand?

When was the last time you handled a diabetic in the ICU?

When was the last time you put a foot in a hospital other than as a visitor?

We are physicians, not just eye doctors. There is a monumental difference

I think you didn't understand my post at all.

The bottom line is that every ophthalmologist completed a 4 year degree in medicine and then one year internship during which they managed medical patients. As such, they have a foundation for understanding the ramifications of prescribing certain medicines like steroids that optoms do not.

You did an eye exam on someone with a blood sugar of 700. Congratulations. Get back to me after you have seen and experienced firsthand what a patient in DKA or hyperosmolar coma looks like and managed them from their admission through the ED to the ICU and to their follow up in clinic a few months later.

You reply "irrelevant, ophthalmologist don't manage diabetes or go to the ICU.". Well, in their training they have done these things, and I say that you cannot demand the privilege of prescribing a potentially lethal drug without the knowledge and experience of dealing with its potential consequences. This is a specific but relevant example.

The bottom line is that your profession keeps pushing back the line about what is a safe and reasonable scope of practice, and it will end up hurting patients. In addition, the way that optoms use the system to lobby government and put non-medical elected officials in a position to grant them privileges and powers beyond their training irresponsible and unethical.
 
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we've established that Blais has no concept of sarcasm, read "i've been doing this for 10 years and no one is dead" as inflammatory???. we also have established Blais has no idea what the hell he is talking about. no frame of reference for real world inter-professional relations, and no ocular clinical or even didactic knowledge. So....

in response to who was it ophtho4 something...i understand your post completely, what you fail to understand, and obviously have no clue about is my training. How are you so confident that you know my training better that I know my training. see this is what pisses me off. I would never be so arrogant as to presume to know your training. are you a practicing ophthalmologist? please tell me.

i did not do an eye exam on someone with a bs of 700. a 14 year old girl was brought into my clinic by her parents who were scared to death because she had suddenly lost her vision. took a quick look through slit lamp and 14 yr old with completely opacified lenses. hmmm i relied on my completely inadequate training and took a random blood glucose in the office wow is 700 high i don't know, didn't do a 6 week endocrine rotation what to do, what to do?? then I thought maybe 700 is high in fact so high that it caused her sudden cataracts and the opaque crystalline lens could have caused her sudden vision loss. couldn't see the retina through opaque lens and I don't have a B-scan to check the retina at my office but i wasn't trained to use those so i just went on a hunch. guess what i did, i did what every ophthalmologist would do i started her on metformin and had her follow up in two weeks? no, straight to ED.

look Ophtho4 in the spirit of friendship lets play a game. you name a non surgical ocular condition and i will tell you how my shi$$y training has allowed me to hurt patients. then we can compare that to what any private practice ophthalmologist would do. you may wonder why i keep saying private practice ophthalmologist. you see we have to run a business and don't necessarily have the money for every fancy instrument, or the time to opine in cohort all of the differentials and run every damn test on the planet. I have a spectral domain OCT post/ant seg, a fundus camera, HVF, pachymeter, topographer, and all the other basics. want to play??
 
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Oh i almost forgot..guess why the 14 year old girl came in to my office. she was on high dose oral prednisone for otitis media with significant fluid. now i'm not trained for this but i think i saw somewhere that steroids can affect blood glucose levels. Holy crap i'm no doctor but could there have been a potential correlation??
 
Blais you sound manic...are u upset? I have a friend over on the optometry forum right now...Vistaril, get in touch with him I just know he can help.
 
I don't know about the patient population in GA, but most people in my region want to see an MD ("OMD" ;) ) whenever it comes to anything beyond getting a new eyeglasses prescription.

I don't know how well the optoms sell themselves to the average patient, but in a world where everyone complains about having to see "the nurse" instead of "a doctor"...when it comes to serious issues pertaining to one's SIGHT, I bet these same people also want to see "a doctor" instead of "the optom".

erroneous

1) your first statement would be true if your region was a wal-mart.

2) optometrists provide 70% of primary eye care and are the gateway to most ophthalmology practices. guess what, that means if they see an ophthalmologist they have probably been sent there by an optometrist who made the decision to treat or refer depending on his/her state scope/comfort level.

3) optometrists don't sell themselves to the average patient, can you elaborate?

4) everyone complains about having to see the nurse..guess what i have a nurse practitioner in my office and she works for me "the doctor" last I checked it said Doctor of Optometry on my terminal degree. in your ridiculous statement it should read Optom of Optometry in fancy letters.
 
2) optometrists provide 70% of primary eye care and are the gateway to most ophthalmology practices..

I've always heard that provision of eye care is split 50/50 - half of patients see an Ophthalmologist and half see an Optometrist. I've got no source for my statistic though other than word of mouth, do you have a source for yours?

I'm not interested in participating in the endless political flame-war I just want to talk about that statistic so that I know for future reference what's correct.
 
biased study, total crap, written by MDs in hospital setting? I can get the answer i want to any question i ask if worded correctly. fact, optometry is the eye care gatekeeper, and will continue to be so. fact most people don't know the difference between Ophthalmologist and Optometrist, so using joe public who doesn't know what we do (hell dude you don't even know what we do) with biased questions....helluvu study. p.s im sure it had a great p value. Why was Ophthalmologist not used instead of DOCTOR vs Optometrist.
 
for ophthope,
bls.gov labor stats. bls is sometimes full of crap, but better than Blais' bogus study.

Offices and Clinics of Optometrists
SIC 8042
inShare
9
Companies in this industry

NAICS 621320: Offices of Optometrists

Industry report:
This category covers establishments of licensed practitioners having the degree of O.D. (Doctor of Optometry) and engaged in the practice of optometry. Establishments operating as clinics of optometrists also are included in this industry.

Industry Snapshot

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there were approximately 111,580 offices of optometrists in the United States in 2010. Approximately 70 percent of the eye care market is delivered by optometrists. Doctors of optometry examine, diagnose, and treat a variety of diseases and disorders of the vision system, the eye, and associated structures. Services rendered by optometrists include the prescription of glasses and contact lenses, rehabilitation of the visually impaired, and the diagnosis and treatment of ocular disease.

Organization and Structure

Sixty-seven percent of optometrists worked out of their own clinics or offices and were self-employed. Unlike ophthalmologists, they are not medical doctors. Optometrists examine the eyes to evaluate eye health and visual acuity and to diagnose eye diseases and eye conditions. Optometrists are not qualified to perform eye surgery, but they can prescribe corrective treatment, including glasses, contact lenses, vision therapy, and low-vision aids. Doctors of optometry (ODs) can also use drugs to treat diseases of the eye.
 
What are you even talking about? I never said I believe they are limited to corrective lenses. I said many in my community believe so...Do you often make up arguments? Does that work well for you?

I guess you are under the impression that every sentence of every post is a direct counter point and therefore, fair game in a never-ending loop of "I never said x, y, or z" type of way. Sadly, you are mistaken.

Yes, actually my local hospital did do a study comparing community perceptions/preferences between physician-delivered care and care rendered from alternative sources (for example, analogous services rendered by ophthal vs optom)...hospital admins always looking for ways to cut costs. Anyway, guess what? Patients wanted to see the "doctor". Gee, what a coincidence, right? ...Maybe that's why I posted? Hmm...

1) Ophthalmology and Optometry are outpatient based specialties. What does that have anything to do with a hospital based survey? Just mentioning hospital admins shows how little you know. As if hospital admins are out there making decisions about Ophthalmologist and Optometrists. The vast majority of both of these practices are private.

2) Oh great you cite a *survey.* I'm sure it's very special. So special that you had to bring it into this unrelated debate. Where is it, by the way? Show me where it says people in the community even know the difference between an Optometrist and Ophthalmologist and actually prefer Opthalmologist. Most people outside of healthcare, and even those in healthcare, would be hard pressed to tell you the difference. I have a feeling your magical survey is of very little relevance to this discussion.

Why did you bring it up in the first place? Because you don't know very much about the field. It's okay to admit you don't know everything. You're young, you'll learn.

Turns out you don't know what you're talking about, mighty 4th year. Plus, you obviously make up imaginary talking points. Take your time when you read - in your case, we both know you have nothing better to do.

"Stop embarrassing yourself" and go better the sdn community by building rep in the lounge and posting condescending posts.

Onward.

Oh yes, is the the part where you portray me as pompous for pointing out that you are in fact, a pre-med who makes that fact patently obvious. Mighty 4th year? Guess what, outside of the pre-allo world, getting into medical school is not a big deal. Neither is being a medical student. Next year, I get the privilege of getting my **** handed to me as an intern and making a small salary in the setting of crushing debt. This has nothing to do with "pulling rank." It is only relevant here because you are trying to inject a study about patients in hospitals preferring to see physicians into a debate that

My response was replying to the op's comment on optoms managing surgical patients. ("Serious")

No, actually the OP mentioned "serious" in the context of serious adverse side effects. This is the part where I'm supposed to make fun of your reading comprehension right? Because it's such a burn?
 
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in response to who was it ophtho4 something...i understand your post completely, what you fail to understand, and obviously have no clue about is my training. How are you so confident that you know my training better that I know my training. see this is what pisses me off. I would never be so arrogant as to presume to know your training. are you a practicing ophthalmologist? please tell me.

This was never an argument about optoms training to diagnose eye pathology

This is about expanding scope to include prescribing oral steroids and narcotics.


What makes you qualified to prescribe oral steroids?
 
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This was never an argument about optoms training to diagnose eye pathology

This is about expanding scope to include prescribing oral steroids and narcotics.


What makes you qualified to prescribe oral steroids?

I'm more interested in knowing why optometrists are interested in prescribing opioids. This is something I see most ophthalmologists shy away from... The ones who prescribe them more are orbit surgeons. Don't see comp doing this much?

What am I missing here? Prescribing opioids is not something I'm looking forward to with all the pill-seekers out there. Just had a local doctor arrested this week for his little pill-mill.
 
It's easier to slowly chip away at the privileges that require an MD than to make a grab at them all at once.
 
no the argument was about the ability to diagnose and TREAT non-surgical eye path. Prescribing opioids does not interest me, but occasionally it interests the patient in with a limbus to limbus abrasion, or bacterial keratitis. That being said I have prescribed narcotic meds maybe a dozen times in 5 years. drug seekers are typically easy to identify, and they talk to each other. when i first started out i had my fair share of them come in to the office, once word got out that they were not going top get their little pills from me..poof they magically stopped swinging by the office.

why can't you guys just quit and admit that you need a better frame of reference to continue this conversation? man i wish i knew as much as you two when i was younger.
 
Why can't you just answer the question

What makes optometrists qualified to prescribe oral steroids

And, by the way, I would say that most diseases of the eye that require systemic steroids are out of the scope of even comprehensive ophthalmologists, much less an optometrist
 
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Prescribing opioids does not interest me, but occasionally it interests the patient in with a limbus to limbus abrasion, or bacterial keratitis. That being said I have prescribed narcotic meds maybe a dozen times in 5 years. drug seekers are typically easy to identify, and they talk to each other. when i first started out i had my fair share of them come in to the office, once word got out that they were not going top get their little pills from me..poof they magically stopped swinging by the office.

why can't you guys just quit and admit that you need a better frame of reference to continue this conversation? man i wish i knew as much as you two when i was younger.

For those specific indications, I've had attendings counsel me to avoid opioids. Different strokes for different folks I guess. They would go with adequate lube and maybe a contact lens if severe for the abrasion and use abx for the keratitis.

I've personally witnessed docs getting fooled by med seekers, and finding out later fortuitously that they were seeking and cutting them off. It can be hard to tell and around here its big business selling them on the street. Haha, one patient even picked at her conj to get opioids from the ER doc.

If it were me I guess I would just take comfort knowing that I can tell people, sorry I can't legally prescribe that medicine!
 
yes I agree completely in the vast majority of ocular pain opioid analgesics are not particularly helpful. Occasionally in severe chem burns/ulcers/intense corneal pain they can be helpful if nothing else just to help the patient sleep a little better for a day or two. like you said different strokes... and rxing 12 times in a span of five years i am not exactly a drug seeker heaven. i am not a big drug person as a rule, and a good bandage CL probably with a topical NSAID works great in the vast majority of some of these acute conditions.

also i do take comfort many times in telling people "sorry I can not legally prescribe for, or treat this condition", and then refer. its awesome to know that i have ophthalmology there to take those difficult cases. i sleep better at night and still make good money. so you're right it is comforting to do that.

on the steroid thing, again using oral steriods in private practice is very rare, probably more rare that narcotics in private eye practice. it has been nice to have in those rare situations. what makes me qualified to rx oral steroids? i can address that but gotta go see a patient...be back.
 
yes I agree completely in the vast majority of ocular pain opioid analgesics are not particularly helpful. Occasionally in severe chem burns/ulcers/intense corneal pain they can be helpful if nothing else just to help the patient sleep a little better for a day or two. like you said different strokes... and rxing 12 times in a span of five years i am not exactly a drug seeker heaven. i am not a big drug person as a rule, and a good bandage CL probably with a topical NSAID works great in the vast majority of some of these acute conditions.

also i do take comfort many times in telling people "sorry I can not legally prescribe for, or treat this condition", and then refer. its awesome to know that i have ophthalmology there to take those difficult cases. i sleep better at night and still make good money. so you're right it is comforting to do that.

on the steroid thing, again using oral steriods in private practice is very rare, probably more rare that narcotics in private eye practice. it has been nice to have in those rare situations. what makes me qualified to rx oral steroids? i can address that but gotta go see a patient...be back.

Future Shnurek, why did you become an optometrist rather than an ophthalmologist?

I can answer that for you but gotta go get a drink of water...be back.
 
although extremely rare I have rxd oral prednisone, one recent case i remember was a post op cataract lady with an extreme allergy to BAK. we tried every topical steriod and she reacted and refused to use any topical steroid. i did some oral steroid with slow taper. again these are rare cases.

as to my training, i thought about going into detail about my training to use medicine, but the fact is that some MDs and med students feel that there is only one way to learn to diagnose and treat people...go to allopathic medical school. so i will say this, we live in a representative republic where we live by laws made by representatives we elect. these representatives make decisions on our behalf. you may agree or disagree with them, but that's how it works here. What makes Obama qualified to be commander in chief of the armed forces when he has never been in the military? hell what makes him or Sebelius qualified to make crappy health care decisions that will affect your lives in a very negative way? The law does.
Optometry is a legislated profession, as our training expands we go to law makers and make our case to use our training, the sausage making begins and we expand scope or we do not. if you don't like our founding principles or our legal system..change it, but your representatives have decided that we have the training and thus have made the laws to allow scope expansion. sorry guys
 
although extremely rare I have rxd oral prednisone, one recent case i remember was a post op cataract lady with an extreme allergy to BAK. we tried every topical steriod and she reacted and refused to use any topical steroid. i did some oral steroid with slow taper. again these are rare cases.

as to my training, i thought about going into detail about my training to use medicine, but the fact is that some MDs and med students feel that there is only one way to learn to diagnose and treat people...go to allopathic medical school. so i will say this, we live in a representative republic where we live by laws made by representatives we elect. these representatives make decisions on our behalf. you may agree or disagree with them, but that's how it works here. What makes Obama qualified to be commander in chief of the armed forces when he has never been in the military? hell what makes him or Sebelius qualified to make crappy health care decisions that will affect your lives in a very negative way? The law does.
Optometry is a legislated profession, as our training expands we go to law makers and make our case to use our training, the sausage making begins and we expand scope or we do not. if you don't like our founding principles or our legal system..change it, but your representatives have decided that we have the training and thus have made the laws to allow scope expansion. sorry guys

Cool story bro but didn't answer my question. Why optometry school instead of med school? Because you wanted to prove to yourself that there are other ways to learn how to diagnose and treat people, or because you wanted to start out with less SOP and then fight for it with the misguided politicians? Or is it another reason about gaining acceptance to med school?

Also, I think somewhere in there you just stated that optometrists shouldn't be given more scope of practice since you said it's only being done due to unqualified politicians. If the politicians are unqualified to make these decisions as you say, then you are basically saying optometrists are also unqualified to receive the new SOP.

Why is that optometrists/students instantly flock to this board as soon as any mention of this topic is brought up? They have their own board, yet they seem to be vulturing around ours at all times. :scared:
 
hey rocketbooster, no...not some stupid optometry student here, been out nine years in the real world. how bout u dude? oh and guess what i take no call, work hard but don't have to deal with **** and blood, have a great office, friendly staff and people enjoy seeing me, oh and I make more money than you ever will. good luck medical student rocketbooster you rock!
 
hey rocketbooster, no...not some stupid optometry student here, been out nine years in the real world. how bout u dude? oh and guess what i take no call, work hard but don't have to deal with **** and blood, have a great office, friendly staff and people enjoy seeing me, oh and I make more money than you ever will. good luck medical student rocketbooster you rock!

Why have you been acting like a teenager then? And I asked twice now why you chose optometry school over med school and still haven't answered. One can only assume you couldn't get into med school and had to settle for it.

Last I checked, ophthalmologists don't have to deal with poop like you claim. And you didn't mention the coolest thing that you miss out on: surgery. Not to mention there's no way optometrists make more than ophthalmologists. You may get more SOP in the future, but optometry will never be allowed to do surgery. That's something I think we can safely bet on. If for some reason optometrists were allowed, it would have to be by first providing surgical training in optometry school, which has long passed for you. So, you'll never do surgery, the coolest part of eye care.

And I'm pretty sure ophthos have great offices and a friendly staff as well.

Again, why are you on our forum? You have one, go back there, Future Shnurek.
 
just having a little fun at you expense rocketbooster....in between patients. my apologies for not being at your beck and call. again
1)make more money than you ever will
2)control my own destiny in private practice
3)have great hours
4)get to punt complicated cases to ophtho
5)make more money than you ever will, even while responding to ignorant med students on an anonymous website
6)don't care about surgery
7)people enjoy coming to see me
8)don't have to deal with ego crap in real life

wouldn't trade my situation (which is pretty unique for optometry) for your future, that's for sure.
 
just having a little fun at you expense rocketbooster....in between patients. my apologies for not being at your beck and call. again
1)make more money than you ever will
2)control my own destiny in private practice
3)have great hours
4)get to punt complicated cases to ophtho
5)make more money than you ever will, even while responding to ignorant med students on an anonymous website
6)don't care about surgery
7)people enjoy coming to see me
8)don't have to deal with ego crap in real life

wouldn't trade my situation (which is pretty unique for optometry) for your future, that's for sure.

Holy crap, I just took a look at your post history. You've been flaming for a few years now. You even flame your own kind! I saw a thread about OD salaries with everyone saying most ODs will make ~$100k max followed by you flaming them making bogus statements of ODs commonly making $400k.

Btw, all of your points above are either false or also present in ophtho. The complicated cases and surgeries are the most interesting parts of eye surgery. And because you don't do surgeries, you miss out on a lot of money. Go look up the salaries of the ophthos who basically have dedicated LASIK factories set up. Easily net $1 million+. Obviously not all ophthos make that, but most ODs don't make your outrageous claims either. Average general ophthalmologist salary is $300-400k, compared to the average OD salary of $100-125k. If you decide to do a fellowship in retina, your average is $500-600k.

Anyways, back to your forum, Future Shnurek.
 
you actually went back and read all of my posts? pathetic..shouldn't you be studying? what does flame mean? you've got over 1300 posts? didn't look at any of them..don't care. everything I say on here is true. if you want to refute it, waste some more time and quote me on things i have said, then enlighten me as to where i went so terribly wrong. otherwise put in a little work, whatever that is for you.

p.s. sure most ODs don't make my outrageous claims...but I do..seems like that really upsets u.
 
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Go back to your forum.

This thread has no purpose.

/Close thread
 
again it's been real rocketbooster
 
Go back to your forum.

This thread has no purpose.

/Close thread

Aw c'mon don't stop now! Pretty soon there will be another Optom in here to eat this multi-millionaire-posting-between-patients guy alive. Much like us, Optometrists don't take kindly to people making their profession look bad.

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Aw c'mon don't stop now! Pretty soon there will be another Optom in here to eat this multi-millionaire-posting-between-patients guy alive. Much like us, Optometrists don't take kindly to people making their profession look bad.

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haha, I already know where this will end since I remember everyone dealing with his predecessor, Schnurek. Future Schnurek here will meet a similar fate: get destroyed by everyone and eventually result in him being banned.

Carry on if you so desire. I've already refuted his "arguments" to the point that now he has nothing to say but repeat his same nonsense over and over. If you take over, though, it'll just expedite his banning process. Carry on, sir.
 
i did not do an eye exam on someone with a bs of 700. a 14 year old girl was brought into my clinic by her parents who were scared to death because she had suddenly lost her vision. took a quick look through slit lamp and 14 yr old with completely opacified lenses. hmmm i relied on my completely inadequate training and took a random blood glucose in the office wow is 700 high i don't know, didn't do a 6 week endocrine rotation what to do, what to do?? then I thought maybe 700 is high in fact so high that it caused her sudden cataracts and the opaque crystalline lens could have caused her sudden vision loss. couldn't see the retina through opaque lens and I don't have a B-scan to check the retina at my office but i wasn't trained to use those so i just went on a hunch. guess what i did, i did what every ophthalmologist would do i started her on metformin and had her follow up in two weeks? no straight to ED.

Dude, let me get this straight... You saw a patient in clinic who presented with a blood sugar of 700 and you thought it was appropriate to simply start her on some metformin and send her home?

A blood sugar of 700 constitutes a life threatening medical condition. You should have sent her to the ER, which would have resulted in a short hospital stay for IV fluids, insulin therapy, serial labs, and further diagnostic work-up.

Unbelievable.

This is what drives physicians absolutely bonkers when it comes to these scope of practice issues. You presented this situation as evidence of your clinical acumen vis-a-vis physicians--that, somehow, your management of this situation proves your ability to medically manage patients just as safely as an ophthalmologist. Yet, what you did would be considered medical malpractice by any reasonable physician. You're lucky that no adverse events occurred as a result of your decision. You dodged a bullet on that one.

The problem with nonphysicians vying for expanded scope of practice is that many of these people lack an accurate awareness of the limitations of their knowledge base, The case that you presented is a classic example of this self-awareness issue. As an optometrist, it's unlikely that you've ever had to manage a patient with hyperosmolar hyperglycemic nonketotic syndrome on the wards (i.e., see them in the ER, admit them to the hospital, write the appropriate orders, interpret the labs/studies that you order, round on the patient twice daily, etc.). Thus, you've probably never been exposed in your training to the extraordinary danger of this condition. Ophthalmologists, in stark contrast, have actually managed these patients on many occasions through the course of their training. Every medical student sees these cases on the wards. Every intern, at some point, manages these patients, too. This is just one difference, among countless other examples, in the training of a physician vs. other health care professionals.

Sometimes I think that all of the nonphysicians seeking full professional autonomy should just get what they're seeking, because patients will eventually realize the value of seeing physicians. But, situations like the one you mentioned, make me question that stance, because it endangers patients. Plain and simple.

The scope of practice issues in this country are just infuriating to me as a physician. They represent an appalling disregard for patient safety.
 
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