Optometry school attracting the elite!

[futureOPTO]

So you are looking forward to getting a DEA license, that should be fun to show off at parties. I am curious, how many hours of pharmacology (not of the eye) do you get in OD school? How many clinical years do you spend on hospital wards? During your "residency" do you manage ICU patients (and why is it called residency?, I am pretty sure historically optom "residents" didn't spend 24/7 in the hospital, oh, thats right, so you can blur the borders even more between MDs and ODs and tell a patient with a straight face you did a "residency")? How do you expect to prescribe systemic medications without understanding the MOA, clearance, side effects, etc..., and seeing these in real patients. What drug on Schedule 3 (or 4) would you have any business prescribing? This is like mailing a drivers license to everyone once they turn 16. You should exhibit competency before being given this privilege (having the state board of optometry say it is OK doesn't count). That being said, I know many optoms who are extremely competent in what they do. Conversely, there are many ophthalmologist who have no idea what they are doing outside a very narrow range. However, I think if you want to practice medicine, and prescribe medications with potential systemic issues, you should go to medical school and not take the path of least resistance.

Also, great idea, "ophthalmologists should be referred to as eye surgeons". That would be excellent marketing for the ophthalmologist. Sorry sir I can't check you for diabetic retinopathy or give you a refraction, I don't perform primary eye care, I only know how to operate.

Actually Nurse Practitioners have limited DEA licenses where I live and do not have to have MD approval. Some MD's let PA's (2-year allied health degree) prescribe without scrutiny. This does not benefit your patients. Optometry is a difficult 8 year endeavor 4 year BS + 4 year doctoral program + optional 1 year residency. 8-9 years is very effective in producing a primary eye care doctor.
I do not feel that a choice to pursue the optometric degree---OD is a path of least resistance. Granted, you are trying to be reasonable in your post regarding practicing medicine. However, many aspects of "practicing medicine" which in the past were ONLY in the realm of Allopathy and more recently Osteopathy are now intregal parts of Optometry, Dentistry and Podiatry. Podiatry interestingly enough resembles traditional medicine the most among these three. It is a field that includes medicine and surgery....there are podiatric surgeons that do a 4 year surgical residency to perform reconstructive rear foot and ankle surgery and there are still MD's that dont feel they are not Physicans or surgeons because they do not have the MD or DO moniker. lol That is completely ridiculous. Most OMFS's do not have MD monikers----80% of them do not. lol I will relate this with your post by addressing the fact that comanaging/treating systemic disease, treating a part of body (ie eyes, mouth, etc), managing ocular conditions with systemic consequences/ relationships are NOT limited to allopathic medicine (ie opthalmology.) Optometry is evolving. When I interviewed at one school and visited a few others the one interesting caveat that I discovered is the move towards more medical--systemic care regarding curricula and clinic. One school wants to have the optometry students rotate WITH the DO medical students in certain parts of their clerkship. Others have added ophthalmic lasers for education as well as rotations thru ophthalmological surgical-medical settings. Although egos and political-financial hedonism will never allow complete cooperation to happen----ophthalmology and optometry need to establish agreed upon boundaries and scopes of practice. There should be an OMFS-type 4 year surgical residency for the small number of OD's who want it. OD's shouldnt take seminar courses in ocular surgery (in the future) and then do cataract surgery!-----Is this a future you want? My whole point is medical management of disease is not strictly in the realm of medicine anymore----this is part of optometry (regarding ocular disease.)
Just my 10 cents (actually 20 cents this time )

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[WoodyJI]

I think the point of the survey is that if they did know they (at least a majority) would want the doctor (MD) to perform all their care including prescribing their meds. shrrruuummmpp...you hear that sound...that was the point going right over your head...

You have to know that surveys are (no matter how hard they try to avoid it) almost always biased in some way or another, and in a some number of cases, the bias is probably even intentional. If, by chance, the survey actually is totally impartial, odds are good that the results will be spun anyways. So I wonder why someone as well-educated as yourself would use them as legitimate arguing points. Do you really think that you're proving something here? Naturally, if you tell your average person that their eye doctor is not actually a medical doctor, and that they could be seeing an MD instead of an OD, then of course they're going to say that they'd rather have the person with the highest degree treating them. Why not have that added layer of protection? It seems to make logical sense to responsible adults, but the problem is this: ophthalmologists are eye surgeons and optometrists are primary care eye doctors. Who's the one trying to mislead the public now? I don't go to orthodontists when I should be getting my cavities filled by a dentist. I'll send my child to a pediatrician, not a neurosurgeon no matter how much "smarter" someone who is a brain surgeon must be compared to that pediatrician who "obviously" couldn't land the neurology residency that they never even wanted to apply for. "I care about "'all of the care'" required for my future child's brain. I don't want them seeing some "mid-level" physician ever."

 

[I Surgeon]

ophthalmologists are eye surgeons and optometrists are primary care eye doctors. Who's the one trying to mislead the public now?

This thread had been closed for a while...but you could not leave it alone. OK... here we go ...read closely...ophthalmology is the end all be all of eye care. We are thoroughly trained for primary eye care and surgery. Thats what we do. How can we mislead the public that we are primary eye care if we are the "experts" of primary eye care. It does not make sense. Its funny BTW your analogy was terrible.

Go back to the optoms forum and fight with prozack.

 

[WoodyJI]

I send my deepest and sincerest apologies for both the "terrible" analogies and the belaboring of this discussion, Emperor I Surgeon. You are the end all be all of my universe! Now that I have read closely everything that you've posted here, I am convinced of your unending wisdom, and I only hope that each one of the ophthalmologists that I work with in the future will be just like you. The class and character you've demonstrated in all of your arguments is truly an inspiration, and I'm sure that your colleagues here on this forum and elsewhere are all proud of the infallible maturity level with which you represent your profession. I hope in the future that ophthalmologists handle all the eye care needs of the world single-handedly. Since I am no longer needed, I will gladly end my service to you through seppuku and return to the optom forums from whence I came.

 

[drgregory]

This thread had been closed for a while...but you could not leave it alone. OK... here we go ...read closely...ophthalmology is the end all be all of eye care. We are thoroughly trained for primary eye care and surgery. Thats what we do. How can we mislead the public that we are primary eye care if we are the "experts" of primary eye care. It does not make sense. QUOTE]

what would your opinion be to stop providing OD education. to me, doesnt seem like too bad of an idea - only problem is we'd have some dinosaurs out there (ODs like me) until we all died off and all of eye care would be MD. probably wouldnt be a bad idea for all midlevel to end and be given to MD - podiatry, psychology, dental. no more debates. but again, youd have all of these midlevels running around in the meantime that have less and less members attending meetings, organizations, etc. residencies would have to heavily forecast to make spots for more providers of each type. quite an undertaking.
just a thought.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I send my deepest and sincerest apologies for both the "terrible" analogies and the belaboring of this discussion, Emperor I Surgeon. You are the end all be all of my universe! Now that I have read closely everything that you've posted here, I am convinced of your unending wisdom, and I only hope that each one of the ophthalmologists that I work with in the future will be just like you. The class and character you've demonstrated in all of your arguments is truly an inspiration, and I'm sure that your colleagues here on this forum and elsewhere are all proud of the infallible maturity level with which you represent your profession. I hope in the future that ophthalmologists handle all the eye care needs of the world single-handedly. Since I am no longer needed, I will gladly end my service to you through seppuku and return to the optom forums from whence I came.

Actually, I agree with I Surgeon here. This thread had, mercifully, died. Those of us who don't enjoy this turf war were glad to see it go. Everytime someone brings one of these threads back from the dead, an angel dies.

That being said, here's my take on it. Are ophthalmologists trained well enough to do everything an OD can do? Yes. Can ODs do a lot of what general ophthalmologists do, sans surgery? Yes. From this point, who you choose to take care of your eyes is up to you.

 

[I Surgeon]

This thread had been closed for a while...but you could not leave it alone. OK... here we go ...read closely...ophthalmology is the end all be all of eye care. We are thoroughly trained for primary eye care and surgery. Thats what we do. How can we mislead the public that we are primary eye care if we are the "experts" of primary eye care. It does not make sense. QUOTE]

what would your opinion be to stop providing OD education. to me, doesnt seem like too bad of an idea - only problem is we'd have some dinosaurs out there (ODs like me) until we all died off and all of eye care would be MD. probably wouldnt be a bad idea for all midlevel to end and be given to MD - podiatry, psychology, dental. no more debates. but again, youd have all of these midlevels running around in the meantime that have less and less members attending meetings, organizations, etc. residencies would have to heavily forecast to make spots for more providers of each type. quite an undertaking.
just a thought.

Bold idea, my friend.

 

[footcramp]

you don't have to be smart to operate. i think optometrists should be able to operate as long as they have the training. you don't have to be a genius to use your hands. right now you just have to be one to get others to let you do it.

 

[I Surgeon]

you don't have to be smart to operate. i think optometrists should be able to operate as long as they have the training. you don't have to be a genius to use your hands. right now you just have to be one to get others to let you do it.

Don't let the surgical assistants hear you...shhhh!

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

you don't have to be smart to operate. i think optometrists should be able to operate as long as they have the training. you don't have to be a genius to use your hands. right now you just have to be one to get others to let you do it.

DON'T WORRY IN THE FUTURE THE SMART ONES WON'T BE OPERATING. I HOPE YOU WON'T NEED SURGERY

 

[7ontheline]

you don't have to be smart to operate. i think optometrists should be able to operate as long as they have the training. you don't have to be a genius to use your hands. right now you just have to be one to get others to let you do it.

Right. And you would be qualified to assess this because. . .? How many operations have you done? How many patients who may or may not have needed surgery have you assessed clinically?

I don't even know why I'm replying, this thread was ok for a couple pages but got really really stupid just like all these threads do.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

closing for obvious reasons.