Opposition to Proposed CACREP Mandate in Georgia

[WPMO]

A bill was just introduced in Georgia that would make graduates from five Master's programs in the state unable to become licensed as Professional Counselors. This bill would do two major things. First, it would ban anyone who doesn't have a degree from a CACREP program from becoming licensed as a Counselor, and second it would allow LPCs to perform any kind of psychological testing, including neuropsychological and forensic assessments. As many of you all know, CACREP bans Psychologists from teaching at their programs, while the Master's in Psychology and Counseling Accreditation Council (MPCAC) allows more flexibility with faculty hiring. There are four MPCAC schools in Georgia, including the University of Georgia, and another school is currently applying.

Here is a thread with more information, but I definitely believe we should be opposing CACREP mandates, since such mandates would shut down many Psychology master's programs (thereby indirectly depriving doctoral programs of funding) and decrease job opportunities for Psychologists. I will be contacting the bill sponsors with my concerns.

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[WisNeuro]

A bill was just introduced in Georgia that would make graduates from five Master's programs in the state unable to become licensed as Professional Counselors. This bill would do two major things. First, it would ban anyone who doesn't have a degree from a CACREP program from becoming licensed as a Counselor, and second it would allow LPCs to perform any kind of psychological testing, including neuropsychological and forensic assessments. As many of you all know, CACREP bans Psychologists from teaching at their programs, while the Master's in Psychology and Counseling Accreditation Council (MPCAC) allows more flexibility with faculty hiring. There are four MPCAC schools in Georgia, including the University of Georgia, and another school is currently applying.

Here is a thread with more information, but I definitely believe we should be opposing CACREP mandates, since such mandates would shut down many Psychology master's programs (thereby indirectly depriving doctoral programs of funding) and decrease job opportunities for Psychologists. I will be contacting the bill sponsors with my concerns.

I had seen this in another setting and read the bill. I did not see the part that it would allow them to perform neuropsychological or forensic assessments. Could you point that part out for us? Also, from a technical standpoint, they already can perform forensic assessments, they just stand a high chance of their testimony being challenged and thrown out if they do.

 

[WPMO]

Sure. So on the last page of the bill it crosses out a section that states that" nor shall anything in this article be construed to authorize persons licensed under this article to perform psychological testing as defined in Code Section 43-39-1.".

When we look at Code Section 43-39-1, it states that "Psychological testing" means the use of assessment instruments to both:

1. Measure mental abilities, personality characteristics, or neuropsychological functioning; and
2. Diagnose, evaluate, classify, or render opinions regarding mental and nervous disorders and illnesses, including, but not limited to, organic brain disorders, brain damage, and other neuropsychological conditions"

I must admit that I may be mistaken about the forensic assessments, but this appears to relate to Neuropsychological assessments and I think Personality and Cognitive assessments. Personally my main concern is with the CACREP mandate. Secondarily I am concerned that the educational requirements for an LPC to perform these types of tests is not well defined. There is at least one state (I think California) where they passed a law stating that anyone who performs such assessments must have at least 6 credit hours of graduate level education in the administration of specific tests. I do not think this law has any such standard in place.

https://www.gapsychology.org/page/ActionCenter

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Given how mediocre the avg psychologist is at assessment, I really wonder how awful the training would be for MS folks bc I highly doubt it is more than glorified tech work. Something as basic as reviewing the psychometric properties of an assessment would be like a foreign language.

 

[PsychSupreme]

The primary sponsor on this bill is a chiropractor. Lol.

 

[WPMO]

The primary sponsor on this bill is a chiropractor. Lol.

I shouldn't be surprised, but I am....

 

[WPMO]

Given how mediocre the avg psychologist is at assessment, I really wonder how awful the training would be for MS folks bc I highly doubt it is more than glorified tech work. Something as basic as reviewing the psychometric properties of an assessment would be like a foreign language.

On this note, although I think Master's-level people could be trained to be competent in assessments if specific training standards are actually spelled out in law, this idea of letting LPCs do such assessments pairs exceptionally poorly with the CACREP mandate. CACREP banned Psychologists from teaching in their Counseling programs...so who exactly is going to teach the Master's students to administer and interpret the assessments? There are not many Counselors who have this training. In my eyes the CACREP mandate is the biggest problem with this bill.

 

[PsychSupreme]

On this note, although I think Master's-level people could be trained to be competent in assessments if specific standards are actually spelled out in law, this idea of letting LPCs do such assessments pairs exceptionally poorly with the CACREP mandate. CACREP banned Psychologists from teaching in their Counseling programs...so who exactly is going to teach the Master's students to administer and interpret the assessments? There are not many Counselors who have this training. In my eyes the CACREP mandate is the biggest problem with this bill.

I reached out to the primary sponsor to voice concerns. I'm originally from GA and don't like the idea of master's folks doing assessment. My clinical psych M.A. included more assessment coursework than does the average counseling M.A., and that was definitely not sufficient to provide the proper training in psychometric science, basic neurocognitive science, and personality science required to select, administer, and interpret an assessment battery. I am very good at the assessments on which I was specifically and intently trained (for psychosis and psychosis risk assessment), but that has come with 5 years of practice and pretty close oversight. Now that I am beginning a PhD in the fall, I'm sure I'll learn even more about how little I know in this regard.

 

[PsychSupreme]

Georgia General Assembly

Georgia General Assembly, is one of the largest state legislatures in the nation. The General Assembly consists of two chambers, the House of Representatives and the Senate.

www.legis.ga.gov

Here's a link to the bill if anyone here still has faith in the government's willingness to listen to the people (or doesn't have that faith but wants to try anyway!).

 

[PsyDr]

A bill was just introduced in Georgia that would make graduates from five Master's programs in the state unable to become licensed as Professional Counselors. This bill would do two major things. First, it would ban anyone who doesn't have a degree from a CACREP program from becoming licensed as a Counselor, and second it would allow LPCs to perform any kind of psychological testing, including neuropsychological and forensic assessments. As many of you all know, CACREP bans Psychologists from teaching at their programs, while the Master's in Psychology and Counseling Accreditation Council (MPCAC) allows more flexibility with faculty hiring. There are four MPCAC schools in Georgia, including the University of Georgia, and another school is currently applying.

Here is a thread with more information, but I definitely believe we should be opposing CACREP mandates, since such mandates would shut down many Psychology master's programs (thereby indirectly depriving doctoral programs of funding) and decrease job opportunities for Psychologists. I will be contacting the bill sponsors with my concerns.

This should be moved to the MA level forum.

 

[WPMO]

I reached out to the primary sponsor to voice concerns. I'm originally from GA and don't like the idea of master's folks doing assessment. My clinical psych M.A. included more assessment coursework than does the average counseling M.A., and that was definitely not sufficient to provide the proper training in psychometric science, basic neurocognitive science, and personality science required to select, administer, and interpret an assessment battery. I am very good at the assessments on which I was specifically and intently trained (for psychosis and psychosis risk assessment), but that has come with 5 years of practice and pretty close oversight. Now that I am beginning a PhD in the fall, I'm sure I'll learn even more about how little I know in this regard.

Fair enough. My Master's was in Counseling and I'm currently a Clinical Psychology Doctoral student, so I can say I definitely am learning way more about assessment and theory now than I did in my Master's. I assume that there will be a pretty broad coalition against this bill so I'm just happy to get as many people on board against it as possible, even if our priorities for opposing it may differ. I will say that, pragmatically, I suspect a focus on opposing the CACREP mandate will rally more people to oppose this bill. There are around 80+ schools that have, or are applying for, MPCAC accreditation, as well as hundreds of other non-CACREP Counseling programs. All of those graduates and students would be out of a job if they want to get licensed in Georgia, should this bill pass, and the non-CACREP master's programs in Georgia would likely have to shut down. That is a lot of people with a vested interest in vigorously fighting this legislation.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mod Note: Moved this to the mental health and social welfare forum, as although there are components that may apply to psychologists, the bill primarily relates to master's degrees.

 

[singasongofjoy]

Similar situation is currently taking place in my state with change in requirements causing a lot of stress on master's programs - and recent graduates. No need to go into detail - basically the concerns voiced above are real problems with significant impact.

 

[WPMO]

Update: Good news! The CACREP mandate and the testing changes have been substituted out of this bill and are dead! Georgia General Assembly

The only remaining problem I see is that it seems to remove the ability for Psychiatrists and Psychologists to serve as supervisors for Counselors. Still, this is a big step forward!

 

[R. Matey]

The only remaining problem I see is that it seems to remove the ability for Psychiatrists and Psychologists to serve as supervisors for Counselors. Still, this is a big step forward!

I don't know if I'd want the liability at this career stage. I am grateful to the psychologists who took the risk and supervised my LPC hours way back in the day, but I feel less magnanimous in my old age.