Oklahoma pharmacist kills armed robber, saves the lives of his staff

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WVUPharm2007 said:
Yeah. Rather than humanely and painlessly murdering people by shooting them in the head, Canadians, in a long, drawn out process, stab their victims to death with knives that are probably very dull...
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Hey Mikey,

I get the sarcasm and all, but isn't just a little oxy-*****ic to describe any murder as humane?
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Jerome Ersland is a hero. He deserves to be awarded the Medal of Freedom, American's highest civilian honor.

:thumbup:
 
hornblower said:
Jerome Ersland is a hero. He deserves to be awarded the Medal of Freedom, American's highest civilian honor.

:thumbup:
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Lots of people in Oklahoma view him as a murderer who deserves the death penalty.


Not that their opinion matters but I do find it interesting that people can have two different extreme views on a subject.
 
I just don't see the tag of "murderer" being appropriate for a man who responded to something. He was about to be attacked and took action. There are many views on the topic, but he didn't wake up that day thinking he was going to have to shoot at two hoodlums who wanted to rob his pharmacy at gunpoint.
 
pharm B said:
I just don't see the tag of "murderer" being appropriate for a man who responded to something. He was about to be attacked and took action. There are many views on the topic, but he didn't wake up that day thinking he was going to have to shoot at two hoodlums who wanted to rob his pharmacy at gunpoint.
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Where are you getting this from? The articles I've read state that only one was armed and he was the one who fled.
 
You wouldn't know that only one of them was armed immediately. What would your instinctive thoughts be upon seeing two men enter the pharmacy with masks over their heads? Besides, watching the video: the second kid looks like he's fumbling with something when they enter.

So I apologize. He had to deal with one hooldum who wanted to rob his pharmacy and one hoodlum who wanted to rob his pharmacy at gunpoint.
 
pharm B said:
You wouldn't know that only one of them was armed immediately. What would your instinctive thoughts be upon seeing two men enter the pharmacy with masks over their heads? Besides, watching the video: the second kid looks like he's fumbling with something when they enter.

So I apologize. He had to deal with one hooldum who wanted to rob his pharmacy and one hoodlum who wanted to rob his pharmacy at gunpoint.
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Yeah but it's the principle that some people are arguing about, the fact that he shot an unarmed robber 5 times. I believe the armed robber said he was the only one armed but I'll have to find out where I read that at.

For the record, I believe the pharmacist did the right thing.
 
Only one of them was carrying a gun, and it's the one that got away. The kid that got shot 5 times was unarmed, you're right. I'm just hoping the state is still conservative enough that a jury won't send him to jail for defending himself and then making a poor decision in the heat of a moment that was thrust onto him.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
p-3at...nice gun for self-defense...which gives him enough time to get his Taurus judge...jesus h christ...dude wasn't f'n around.
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No sir, the Taurus Judge is a bad mother effer, and he most certainly was not messing around. My current place of employment is in a very bad area of Louisville, KY. We have been sitting in the car and a gun fight has erupted in the middle of the day....that kind of bad. The owner of the company carries a gun with him every day and I am convinced with the construction of our company building and the amount of guns and ammo we have in here that we can outlast something short of a full military assault. He had The Judge loaded with a .410 shotgun shell one day when somebody tried messing with just at sundown when I was pulling the gates. Luckily, he didn't have to pull the trigger as that would have been messy, up close, and personal.

The Judge buys him enough time to get to his Mossberg 12 guage riot gun. And if all else fails, there is an uzi in the safe. No, I am not kidding. This does not include the AR-15 and Carbine the other guy goes out shooting during lunch time or his .45 that he keep with him. These guns are all here on a daily basis. Gosh I love the NRA.
 
pharm B said:
Only one of them was carrying a gun, and it's the one that got away. The kid that got shot 5 times was unarmed, you're right. I'm just hoping the state is still conservative enough that a jury won't send him to jail for defending himself and then making a poor decision in the heat of a moment that was thrust onto him.
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I'm pretty sure Oklahoma is way more conservative than Texas is, the okies won't admit it but from my experience it's very conservative. Just google Sally Kern, she's a state representative who blamed the poor economy on gay people.
 
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wes011 said:
No sir, the Taurus Judge is a bad mother effer, and he most certainly was not messing around. My current place of employment is in a very bad area of Louisville, KY. We have been sitting in the car and a gun fight has erupted in the middle of the day....that kind of bad. The owner of the company carries a gun with him every day and I am convinced with the construction of our company building and the amount of guns and ammo we have in here that we can outlast something short of a full military assault. He had The Judge loaded with a .410 shotgun shell one day when somebody tried messing with just at sundown when I was pulling the gates. Luckily, he didn't have to pull the trigger as that would have been messy, up close, and personal.

The Judge buys him enough time to get to his Mossberg 12 guage riot gun. And if all else fails, there is an uzi in the safe. No, I am not kidding. This does not include the AR-15 and Carbine the other guy goes out shooting during lunch time or his .45 that he keep with him. These guns are all here on a daily basis. Gosh I love the NRA.
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I love it! Although, I prefer the AK-47 over the AR-15 and the Carbine. Much more durable.
 
pharm B said:
I just don't see the tag of "murderer" being appropriate for a man who responded to something. He was about to be attacked and took action. There are many views on the topic, but he didn't wake up that day thinking he was going to have to shoot at two hoodlums who wanted to rob his pharmacy at gunpoint.
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There are several issues here. Let's deal with the legal. This dude is going to go to jail for a long time. The principal of defending your castle gives you more latitude at your home. So once a person breaks into your home, they are fair game. Not so in a place of business. If you are threatened, you may respond with deadly force. Once the threat is removed you cant pump five bullets into a guy at point blank range.

Did you actually watch the video? The kid was already wounded and he walked over hime twice, went and got a cannon and stood over him and pumped five rounds into him. Even in Oklahoma that's murder...

Well the moral, it's worse for him there....
 
I agree he made a terrible decision by shooting the kid again, but I think that he's going to be tried for being in a situation he didn't create. I think a legal slap on the wrist, maybe a year at most in jail, would send the message that what he did not was not okay, but it's not on the same level as murder.
 
Personally, I think it would set a good legal precedent if they let him walk free. That sends a message out to potential robbers that if they are planning on committing a crime, that the person they commit it against can use deadly force without fear of consequences.
 
As President, I would pardon Jerome Ersland. Defending yourself against feral teenagers is a God given right.

city-of-god2jpg.jpg
 
wes011 said:
No sir, the Taurus Judge is a bad mother effer, and he most certainly was not messing around. My current place of employment is in a very bad area of Louisville, KY. We have been sitting in the car and a gun fight has erupted in the middle of the day....that kind of bad. The owner of the company carries a gun with him every day and I am convinced with the construction of our company building and the amount of guns and ammo we have in here that we can outlast something short of a full military assault. He had The Judge loaded with a .410 shotgun shell one day when somebody tried messing with just at sundown when I was pulling the gates. Luckily, he didn't have to pull the trigger as that would have been messy, up close, and personal.

The Judge buys him enough time to get to his Mossberg 12 guage riot gun. And if all else fails, there is an uzi in the safe. No, I am not kidding. This does not include the AR-15 and Carbine the other guy goes out shooting during lunch time or his .45 that he keep with him. These guns are all here on a daily basis. Gosh I love the NRA.
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Sweeeeeet. :thumbup:
 
Ok, I read the story, and I'm law enforcement in neighboring Arkansas so here's my perspective. It doesn't matter, but I feel like commenting.

He would've been completely ok with shooting the guy which, in this case, caused the robber to go unconscious. Where he messed up was when he continued to shoot robber/teenager. I'm guessing that the teen had fallen to the floor, and that the pharmacist then shot him five more times. That's a no no. Granted, I've trained myself to fire off several rounds at a would be attacker, but once they're down, thus stopped, you can't continue to shoot. That's when it goes from being a defensive action to one of an offensive nature. However, I personally could care less that he killed the kid.
 
ArkansasRanger said:
Ok, I read the story, and I'm law enforcement in neighboring Arkansas so here's my perspective. It doesn't matter, but I feel like commenting.

He would've been completely ok with shooting the guy which, in this case, caused the robber to go unconscious. Where he messed up was when he continued to shoot robber/teenager. I'm guessing that the teen had fallen to the floor, and that the pharmacist then shot him five more times. That's a no no. Granted, I've trained myself to fire off several rounds at a would be attacker, but once they're down, thus stopped, you can't continue to shoot. That's when it goes from being a defensive action to one of an offensive nature. However, I personally could care less that he killed the kid.
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So besides the money, why do you want to be a doctor?
 
Old Timer said:
So besides the money, why do you want to be a doctor?
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Random question there. Why do you ask?

Actually, I want to learn more about physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology, and treat/cure disease and injury. I've been a paramedic too, and I liked it. Figured what the hell. The money isn't really an issue since I already make a living that satisfies me and am absent of a house note. All I lack to apply is organic chem and physics. At one time I was a h.s. biology teacher. :)
 
ArkansasRanger said:
Random question there. Why do you ask?

Actually, I want to learn more about physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology, and treat/cure disease and injury. I've been a paramedic too, and I liked it. Figured what the hell. The money isn't really an issue since I already make a living that satisfies me and am absent of a house note. All I lack to apply is organic chem and physics. At one time I was a h.s. biology teacher. :)
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ArkansasRanger said:
I personally could care less that he killed the kid.
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You have such a callous view of the value of human life, I figured money was the only reason....
 
I'd shoot the guy even if hes black, who cares its just self defense. Those thugs need to be a productive citizen instead of stirring trouble in their community. Get a job even if it pays $5.00!!!

...K i read through and saw the article. I wouldn't have shot him 5 more times if he wasn't a threat no more. But the kid got what he asked for in my opinion. People that do these kind of bs is serving community service....in hell!!!!
 
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ArkansasRanger said:
That's when it goes from being a defensive action to one of an offensive nature. However, I personally could care less that he killed the kid.
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caring.png


Old Timer said:
You have such a callous view of the value of human life, I figured money was the only reason....
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Don't worry! It's quite possible that he's near the top of the graphic.

--Garfield3d
 
LasagnaBoy said:
a pharmacist who carries a gun into work? altho it saved the day, i find that a bit disturbing that he had a gun in his pocket at work.
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I agree why should a pharmacist try to maximize self defense. Its absolutely ridiculous. Especially after having been robbed 2 years before. He should have layed down and taken it like a man.
 
pharm B said:
I agree he made a terrible decision by shooting the kid again, but I think that he's going to be tried for being in a situation he didn't create. I think a legal slap on the wrist, maybe a year at most in jail, would send the message that what he did not was not okay, but it's not on the same level as murder.
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Its easy for you to sit here on an internet forum and critize how others acted in extreme situations. The kid still had a gun. What if he tried to shoot him again. Gun ignorance is astounding. You point a gun at someone expect to be killed. lesson learned.
 
Jack555 said:
Its easy for you to sit here on an internet forum and critize how others acted in extreme situations. The kid still had a gun. What if he tried to shoot him again. Gun ignorance is astounding. You point a gun at someone expect to be killed. lesson learned.
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:confused:

Have you read the articles about this case? I have a concealed carry license, so please don't insinuate that I'm ignorant.

The kid that took 5 in the stomach was unarmed. That's the main point of debate behind this topic. He was nailed once in the head and then, a significant span of time later, 5 more times while he was incapacitated on the ground.
 
Jack555 said:
Its easy for you to sit here on an internet forum and critize how others acted in extreme situations. The kid still had a gun. What if he tried to shoot him again. Gun ignorance is astounding. You point a gun at someone expect to be killed. lesson learned.
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Here are the indisputable facts:

1) It is legal nowhere in the USA to shoot someone in the defense of property.

2) Nowhere in the USA that I am aware of is the penalty for armed robbery, death.

3) The pharmacists lied to police about firing in self defense as the criminals did not fire a shot. It was not visible on the store tape and there is no forensic evidence of a shot being fired by the criminals.

4) The pharmacist shot and incapacitated the victim (and his criminality does not diminish his status as victim as he is still dead) and left the building to fire at the fleeing suspect. He then went back into the pharmacy, stepped over the incapacitated victim went into the lab, opened a drawer, pulled out a cannon, walked over to the victim laying on the on his back and pumped five shots into his chest as he stood over him. By the way, the victim was unarmed.

We are a society of laws and not men. You could conjure up many scenarios that could account for the behavior of the pharmacist. The trouble is the facts just are not on his side. If the state does not get to execute someone for armed robbery, than an ordinary citizen doesn't either.
 
Old Timer said:
Here are the indisputable facts:

1) It is legal nowhere in the USA to shoot someone in the defense of property.

2) Nowhere in the USA that I am aware of is the penalty for armed robbery, death.

3) The pharmacists lied to police about firing in self defense as the criminals did not fire a shot. It was not visible on the store tape and there is no forensic evidence of a shot being fired by the criminals.

4) The pharmacist shot and incapacitated the victim (and his criminality does not diminish his status as victim as he is still dead) and left the building to fire at the fleeing suspect. He then went back into the pharmacy, stepped over the incapacitated victim went into the lab, opened a drawer, pulled out a cannon, walked over to the victim laying on the on his back and pumped five shots into his chest as he stood over him. By the way, the victim was unarmed.

We are a society of laws and not men. You could conjure up many scenarios that could account for the behavior of the pharmacist. The trouble is the facts just are not on his side. If the state does not get to execute someone for armed robbery, than an ordinary citizen doesn't either.
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1. NOT correct and particularly for merchants (which the pharmacist is) in many states.
2. It isn't anywhere.
3. The robbers, as I'll call them, do not have to fire at you, or in fact point a gun at you, for you to shoot and kill them. If he lied to the cops then he lied to the cops. Did he lie? Maybe. He could've very well thought he was shot at. It happens. I've seen it before. Alternatively, he could've been lying out his ***. If the investigators feel he was lying then I back that.
4. It's ok, thus lawful, that he shot and killed the suspect. There are circumstances in which it would be ok to shoot a fleeing person, but this was definitely not one of them. His act here was criminal. He apparently retrieved another weapon and shot the robber laying on the floor inside the store five more times. That act was also criminal. I've encountered this before too. I know of an instance in which a lady got off and another in which a guy went to prison as a result of a very similar act. As I said in a pervious post it was not the right thing for him to shoot the kid five more times, however, I have absolutely no empathy for the victim or his family.

To those that are either scared of or anti-gun ownership then get over it. Just as my above stated feelings mean nothing to anyone else neither do your feelings. Plenty of good, decent people, as the pharmacist might have been until he reached his tipping point, own and carry guns on a daily basis. I have absolutely nothing against that, and you shouldn't either. I guarantee when I pass you in the aisles of the grocery store, while I'm off the clock, I've got one on me as well, and I've got two on me when I'm working. Weapons take lives and weapons save lives. It's up the person utilizing those tools to be discriminate.
 
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Old Timer said:
Here are the indisputable facts:

1) It is legal nowhere in the USA to shoot someone in the defense of property.

2) Nowhere in the USA that I am aware of is the penalty for armed robbery, death.

3) The pharmacists lied to police about firing in self defense as the criminals did not fire a shot. It was not visible on the store tape and there is no forensic evidence of a shot being fired by the criminals.

4) The pharmacist shot and incapacitated the victim (and his criminality does not diminish his status as victim as he is still dead) and left the building to fire at the fleeing suspect. He then went back into the pharmacy, stepped over the incapacitated victim went into the lab, opened a drawer, pulled out a cannon, walked over to the victim laying on the on his back and pumped five shots into his chest as he stood over him. By the way, the victim was unarmed.

We are a society of laws and not men. You could conjure up many scenarios that could account for the behavior of the pharmacist. The trouble is the facts just are not on his side. If the state does not get to execute someone for armed robbery, than an ordinary citizen doesn't either.
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As hard as it is, I agree with you on most of this however there is a law contrary to point 1 of your argument.

Oklahoma has the "Make my Day" law enacted in the late 80s and expanded upon a few years ago which allows a person to take lethal actions if someone threatens them or their property at their home residence. I know this doesn't apply to the business place, however it does prove counter to point 1.
 
Sparda29 said:
If anyone walks up to me on the street and asks for money in a threatening manner, they are going to get their throat slit.
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:rolleyes: whatever you say. Go back to your hookah lounge already.
 
ArkansasRanger said:
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight, kid. :D
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If they have a gun scenario:

Robber: Gimme ur $$$ biaznach.
Me: No
Robber: *pulls out gun*
Me: Sure, here's my wallet, don't hurt me pleaaasee!
Robber: *turns around and starts to walk away*
Me: *unsheath knife, stab robber in the back, disarm, call the fuzz*
 
Sparda29 said:
If they have a gun scenario:

Robber: Gimme ur $$$ biaznach.
Me: No
Robber: *pulls out gun*
Me: Sure, here's my wallet, don't hurt me pleaaasee!
Robber: *turns around and starts to walk away*
Me: *unsheath knife, stab robber in the back, disarm, call the fuzz*
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[YOUTUBE]uKaGvo3JMBk[/YOUTUBE]
 
Sparda29 said:
If they have a gun scenario:

Robber: Gimme ur $$$ biaznach.
Me: No
Robber: *pulls out gun*
Me: Sure, here's my wallet, don't hurt me pleaaasee!
Robber: *turns around and starts to walk away*
Me: *unsheath knife, stab robber in the back, disarm, call the fuzz*
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LOL. At that point you'd probably go to jail like the above mentioned pharmacist. It doesn't always work this way either. Sometimes you give up the wallet and still take two in the head.
 
"not without dinner and a movie"

"plastic"

"lets rock and roll"
 
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Phlame217 said:
As hard as it is, I agree with you on most of this however there is a law contrary to point 1 of your argument.

Oklahoma has the "Make my Day" law enacted in the late 80s and expanded upon a few years ago which allows a person to take lethal actions if someone threatens them or their property at their home residence. I know this doesn't apply to the business place, however it does prove counter to point 1.
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The Oklahoma make my day law is for homes only. It's just another form the "Castle" doctrine. Your home is your castle and any intruder is considered a threat to life as well as property and you can pretty much do what you want to him or her. I'm sure there is a state or two that extends it to your business. If they had fired first and even if they didn't it's not the first shot that got his ass in trouble.
 
Old Timer said:
The Oklahoma make my day law is for homes only. It's just another form the "Castle" doctrine. Your home is your castle and any intruder is considered a threat to life as well as property and you can pretty much do what you want to him or her. I'm sure there is a state or two that extends it to your business. If they had fired first and even if they didn't it's not the first shot that got his ass in trouble.
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Too bad NY doesn't have it.
 
its the right verdict

going back getting more ammo and then shooting 5 more times to a unconscious person on the ground is way over the top and not self defense
 
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