Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[ShuperNewbie]

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[ChessMaster3000]

Med School: Mid Tier US MD
Step 1: 234
Step 2: Scheduled this month
AOA: Nope
Research: 2 first authors being submitted (One basic science, one clinical), at least one very likely to be published because the FDA has taken an interest in it. FDA also invited us to give a presentation at their campus (Only med student invited). 2 mid authors from undergrad
3rd year grades: HP all including medicine with P in OB/GYN
Letters will be good, including at least 1 "big wig" letter from a very reputable institution
Extracurrics: Nothing much. Got voted "friendliest" at the med school.


WAMC: I'm not super ambitions. I would consider it amazing if I could interview at a couple cali programs like UCSD (I'm a cali resident) or UCLA as a reach. UCSF is a no go and I'm not super heartbroken. I would also consider it incredible if I could interview at UW or OHSU. Applying to Harbor, Cedars, Scripps Green, UCI, USC. Also applying to colorado, mayo, Wisconson, UNC, NYU, and Mt. Sinai.

It seems your application is pretty average overall (mid-tier school, step 1 slightly above national average, grades perhaps slightly below average). None of the programs you are applying to strike me as particularly competitive, and think all of your program selections and reaches (UCLA, UW, OHSU) are incredibly reasonable. Strong work on keeping it real (ie, youre not trying to get into a Big 4 program), and good luck. (This is probably blasphemous to say on SDN where everyone claims Step 2 CK scores don't matter, but I think in your situation a nice 10-15pt boost in your step 2 score might convince any programs that have you on the fence to interview you--just be sure to take that test seriously).

 

[ChessMaster3000]

Med school: low-tier (unranked) US MD school
Step 1: 247
Step 2: haven't taken yet
AOA: Won't be. My school doesn't rank but divides us into categories based on our gpas and Step 1 scores. My gpa is a 3.5. I'm going to be in the 2nd category/5
Research: 2-3 local poster presentations (at my school). Submitting a case report soon for consideration for publication. Might take awhile to hear back
3rd year grades: HP in my first 3 cores (Medicine, Family Med, and Gen Surg) and Honors in my last 3 cores (Psych, OB/Gyn, and Peds) (I learned how to study on cores halfway through the year...) all good comments. Pretty much the only bad eval I received is in an IM elective where someone said that I am "very quiet but knows a lot"
Letters should be good
Extracurrics: never super involved in anything but I have a handful of different, varied things that I have done ex. treasurer of student-run clinic

WAMC for UPMC Presby/Montefiore? What about programs in the Chicago area? And then top tier as well such as Duke, Mayo, Yale, Hopkins (<-- don't want to say which one, but I will be doing an OOT at one of those)? What programs are realistic for me? Location-wise, I'm hoping to be in Pittsburgh. Thanks!

Not trying to be a downer, but your application doesn't sound too strong to me. I doubt the fact that you honored your last 3 cores (ie, had a trend up in grades) will matter. Nobody cares if you improved over the course of the year (IMO), they just care what you did and didnt honor in, particular if you honored in medicine regardless of when you took it during 3rd year. If youre the only person on that case report get it submitted asap so you have at least a chance at it being back before september 15 (although case reports dont count for much). There are plenty of programs in the chicago area you can match it if you want to be there, I just don't see it being NW. I wouldn't consider Yale "top tier" but i think you have some chances there. Mayo has trouble attracting folks due to its location so that one would be worth a shot. I have trouble gauging how competitive UPMC is, so unfortunately I can't provide any guidance on that. Hope that helped.

 

[ShuperNewbie]

It seems your application is pretty average overall (mid-tier school, step 1 slightly above national average, grades perhaps slightly below average). None of the programs you are applying to strike me as particularly competitive, and think all of your program selections and reaches (UCLA, UW, OHSU) are incredibly reasonable. Strong work on keeping it real (ie, youre not trying to get into a Big 4 program), and good luck. (This is probably blasphemous to say on SDN where everyone claims Step 2 CK scores don't matter, but I think in your situation a nice 10-15pt boost in your step 2 score might convince any programs that have you on the fence to interview you--just be sure to take that test seriously).

Thanks a lot bro. Very kind of you to be so encouraging, especially when the interwebs tends to lean towards cynicism. I'll take your advice and ramp up some studying for Step 2. I can't guarantee I'll do any better, but I can guarantee that I'll try my hardest. Cheers.

 

[qwertyytrewq]

Strongly Considering Switching from a Surgical Sub-specialty into Internal Medicine.
School Top 30-40 Midwest.
Step 1:266
AOA: Yes
Grades: Clinical grades are Mix of H's, NH's,P, Inpatient Internal Medicine is a P.
Pubs: 4 Posters, None In Medicine, 1 in Derm, 3 in the surgical subspecialty, will prob have a 1-2 pubs submitted by the time I apply, and 1 Book chapter (on renal physiology)
Extracurriculars: A bunch. IMIG presentation would be most relevant, also lots of teaching/tutoring experience.
What are my chances at a top tier IM program. I wonder how many places will screen me out with the P in IM clerkship.

 

[ChessMaster3000]

Strongly Considering Switching from a Surgical Sub-specialty into Internal Medicine.
School Top 30-40 Midwest.
Step 1:266
AOA: Yes
Grades: Clinical grades are Mix of H's, NH's,P, Inpatient Internal Medicine is a P.
Pubs: 4 Posters, None In Medicine, 1 in Derm, 3 in the surgical subspecialty, will prob have a 1-2 pubs submitted by the time I apply, and 1 Book chapter (on renal physiology)
Extracurriculars: A bunch. IMIG presentation would be most relevant, also lots of teaching/tutoring experience.
What are my chances at a top tier IM program. I wonder how many places will screen me out with the P in IM clerkship.

can you be a little more specific on your clinical grades--how many Hs in particular? also did you do a medicine sub-I? if you are considering switching and have no yet set up a medicine sub-i, that needs to be done stat.

 

[qwertyytrewq]

Wont be able to do a Medicine Sub-I by the time I apply (they are all filled up) I would be able to do a 4 week advanced elective H's in Fam Med, Surg,H- Outpatientt IM H- In ob Gyn P in Peds, IM

 

[ss2498]

Hey all, figured I've give this a shot as well.

Med School: Top 25
Step 1: ~260
Step 2: Not Taken Yet
Class Rank: Unavailable
AOA: Possibly - we only have senior elections, but in contention
Honors in everything but OB/GYN (HP), Currently on Medicine Sub-I
Research: Sarnoff Fellowship (yr out research fellowship in cardiovascular science, fairly competitive), 1 book chapter, multiple poster presentations, 2 oral presentations, 1 published manuscript, 2 manuscripts currently being written
Recs: Recs from chairman, 3rd yr clerkship director (both well reputed IM programs), very strong letters from 2 research mentors (very well known cardiovascular investigators)
ECs: Pretty generic honestly - histopath tutoring, cardiovascular interest group organizer, most of my time is dedicated to research

I'm torn b/w the ABIM cardiovascular research pathway and strong IM programs with a great cardiovascular research presence. I realize I'm a fairly competitive candidate, but was wondering a couple things.

1. Is my application strong enough for the Big 4?
2. My application screams Cardiovascular Medicine, how big a turn off is that to IM programs?
3. Should I limit my app list to strong IM schools with very strong research programs, or would that be too risky?
4. The Sarnoff Fellowship has a very strong network of members in high places, but I am worried that my applications may rely more heavily on connections to get into the top programs than merit - comments?

 

[medstudent7860]

Not trying to be a downer, but your application doesn't sound too strong to me. I doubt the fact that you honored your last 3 cores (ie, had a trend up in grades) will matter. Nobody cares if you improved over the course of the year (IMO), they just care what you did and didnt honor in, particular if you honored in medicine regardless of when you took it during 3rd year. If youre the only person on that case report get it submitted asap so you have at least a chance at it being back before september 15 (although case reports dont count for much). There are plenty of programs in the chicago area you can match it if you want to be there, I just don't see it being NW. I wouldn't consider Yale "top tier" but i think you have some chances there. Mayo has trouble attracting folks due to its location so that one would be worth a shot. I have trouble gauging how competitive UPMC is, so unfortunately I can't provide any guidance on that. Hope that helped.

Thank you!! Does anyone else have any input? Anyone familiar with UPMC and able to tell me how competitive I am for that program? And what programs in general (throughout the US) would be realistic for me and which ones would be reaches? Also, does it make a difference that IM is hard to Honors at my school (which should be reflected on the MSPE) and that it was my first core rotation?

 

[notbobtrustme]

Strongly Considering Switching from a Surgical Sub-specialty into Internal Medicine.
School Top 30-40 Midwest.
Step 1:266
AOA: Yes
Grades: Clinical grades are Mix of H's, NH's,P, Inpatient Internal Medicine is a P.
Pubs: 4 Posters, None In Medicine, 1 in Derm, 3 in the surgical subspecialty, will prob have a 1-2 pubs submitted by the time I apply, and 1 Book chapter (on renal physiology)
Extracurriculars: A bunch. IMIG presentation would be most relevant, also lots of teaching/tutoring experience.
What are my chances at a top tier IM program. I wonder how many places will screen me out with the P in IM clerkship.

I think you'll be competitive at any program in the nation. Your step score + research + school +AOA should make up for the P in medicine. No program is out of reach.

Hey all, figured I've give this a shot as well.

Med School: Top 25
Step 1: ~260
Step 2: Not Taken Yet
Class Rank: Unavailable
AOA: Possibly - we only have senior elections, but in contention
Honors in everything but OB/GYN (HP), Currently on Medicine Sub-I
Research: Sarnoff Fellowship (yr out research fellowship in cardiovascular science, fairly competitive), 1 book chapter, multiple poster presentations, 2 oral presentations, 1 published manuscript, 2 manuscripts currently being written
Recs: Recs from chairman, 3rd yr clerkship director (both well reputed IM programs), very strong letters from 2 research mentors (very well known cardiovascular investigators)
ECs: Pretty generic honestly - histopath tutoring, cardiovascular interest group organizer, most of my time is dedicated to research

I'm torn b/w the ABIM cardiovascular research pathway and strong IM programs with a great cardiovascular research presence. I realize I'm a fairly competitive candidate, but was wondering a couple things.

1. Is my application strong enough for the Big 4?
2. My application screams Cardiovascular Medicine, how big a turn off is that to IM programs?
3. Should I limit my app list to strong IM schools with very strong research programs, or would that be too risky?
4. The Sarnoff Fellowship has a very strong network of members in high places, but I am worried that my applications may rely more heavily on connections to get into the top programs than merit - comments?

I think you're more than competitive for any program in the nation.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Hey all, figured I've give this a shot as well.

Med School: Top 25
Step 1: ~260
Step 2: Not Taken Yet
Class Rank: Unavailable
AOA: Possibly - we only have senior elections, but in contention
Honors in everything but OB/GYN (HP), Currently on Medicine Sub-I
Research: Sarnoff Fellowship (yr out research fellowship in cardiovascular science, fairly competitive), 1 book chapter, multiple poster presentations, 2 oral presentations, 1 published manuscript, 2 manuscripts currently being written
Recs: Recs from chairman, 3rd yr clerkship director (both well reputed IM programs), very strong letters from 2 research mentors (very well known cardiovascular investigators)
ECs: Pretty generic honestly - histopath tutoring, cardiovascular interest group organizer, most of my time is dedicated to research

I'm torn b/w the ABIM cardiovascular research pathway and strong IM programs with a great cardiovascular research presence. I realize I'm a fairly competitive candidate, but was wondering a couple things.

1. Is my application strong enough for the Big 4?
2. My application screams Cardiovascular Medicine, how big a turn off is that to IM programs?
3. Should I limit my app list to strong IM schools with very strong research programs, or would that be too risky?
4. The Sarnoff Fellowship has a very strong network of members in high places, but I am worried that my applications may rely more heavily on connections to get into the top programs than merit - comments?

1) Probably yes. It is always a crap shoot though
2) Not that big of a turn off. Most top programs send a large proportion of their residents into cards. My year 50% of the class went into cards.
3) Always apply with a few backups.
4) Use whatever you can to get the best program you can get into.

 

[US_MD_Applicant]

Hi looking for advice

 

[rd31]

Hi all, I would love some advice.

Med School: US MD, lower-tier (South)
Step 1: 218
Step 2 CK: Signed up for August. Will receive scores by 9/15/15
Class Rank: N/A
AOA: Negative
Rotations: Great comments from attendings/residents for Dean's Letter. All Pass (We only have P/F. No High Pass or Honors options).
Research:
8 PubMed Publications with Good Journals; six 1st Author; one 3rd author; one 4th author
3 Poster Presentations at National Conferences (GI): one 1st author; two 2nd author
1 Poster Presentation at local ACP
2 Manuscripts submitted to prestigious journal
LOR: Rec from Chair and PD (Been in contact with them all year long and they said they will write a strong letter). 3rd/4th recs from attendings that supervised my rotation (They said it would be strong)
EC: VP of Class, multiple research experiences; 1-year work experience as gap year; Volunteer Medical Mission Trip in Undergrad.
Awards: 2nd Place: Best Clinical Research at Local ACP

My step 1 and regional bias is my biggest weakness. I want to apply to IM programs in all major metropolitan cities: NYC, Atlanta, Miami, Philly, Chicago, SF, Boston, Houston, Seattle, Portland, etc.

1) I have no preference to which specific city. I just want to get into the best university program possible in a metropolitan city.
2) Do I have a chance at a strong university program in a major metropolitan city?
3) What is the caliber of schools that I realistically should be applying to? I would really appreciate it, if you could list some good example schools.
4) Otherwise, what would be strong programs that I should look into that are in a little smaller, yet still big city.

Step 1 and school reputation will be the biggest limiting factors here. However, your research is probably better than most matched interns in the big 4. It's a shame your school doesn't offer honors in the clinical years. How will programs distinguish you clinically from other applicants?

The best programs that might give you a look (and are still reaches) would include: Mt. Sinai, NYU, Emory, UTSW, BU. I'm not familiar enough with programs in Miami and Portland. I'd say Columbia/Cornell, Penn, UChicago/NW, BIDMC, MGH, BW, UCSF, UW are probably unrealistic, but who knows? Doesn't hurt to apply, especially if you improve on step 2 by 30+ points.

More match-type programs might include Montefiore, Drexel, Jeff, Loyola, etc.

 

[ShuperNewbie]

Hi all, I would love some advice.

Med School: US MD, lower-tier (South)
Step 1: 218
Step 2 CK: Signed up for August. Will receive scores by 9/15/15
Class Rank: N/A
AOA: Negative
Rotations: Great comments from attendings/residents for Dean's Letter. All Pass (We only have P/F. No High Pass or Honors options).
Research:
8 PubMed Publications with Good Journals; six 1st Author; one 3rd author; one 4th author
3 Poster Presentations at National Conferences (GI): one 1st author; two 2nd author
1 Poster Presentation at local ACP
2 Manuscripts submitted to prestigious journal
LOR: Rec from Chair and PD (Been in contact with them all year long and they said they will write a strong letter). 3rd/4th recs from attendings that supervised my rotation (They said it would be strong)
EC: VP of Class, multiple research experiences; 1-year work experience as gap year; Volunteer Medical Mission Trip in Undergrad.
Awards: 2nd Place: Best Clinical Research at Local ACP

My step 1 and regional bias is my biggest weakness. I want to apply to IM programs in all major metropolitan cities: NYC, Atlanta, Miami, Philly, Chicago, SF, Boston, Houston, Seattle, Portland, etc.

1) I have no preference to which specific city. I just want to get into the best university program possible in a metropolitan city.
2) Do I have a chance at a strong university program in a major metropolitan city?
3) What is the caliber of schools that I realistically should be applying to? I would really appreciate it, if you could list some good example schools.
4) Otherwise, what would be strong programs that I should look into that are in a little smaller, yet still big city.

Make sure to check out Baylor and UT Houston too! I think you have a pretty good shot at matching to one of those programs if you so desire. I know a 2nd year resident at BCM who matched there with similar stats to yours, so definitely apply! And UT Houston is a great program that would definitely give you a look/interview (especially if you give the PD a call/email). Both have pretty stellar fellowship matches esp in Cards and Heme/Onc (THI and MD Anderson have strong connections with both, and I know that both reserve a few spots for BCM and UTH every year).

 

[qwertyytrewq]

Strongly Considering Switching from a Surgical Sub-specialty into Internal Medicine.
School Top 30-40 Midwest.
Step 1:266
AOA: Yes
Grades: Clinical grades are Mix of H's, NH's,P, Inpatient Internal Medicine is a P.
Pubs: 4 Posters, None In Medicine, 1 in Derm, 3 in the surgical subspecialty, will prob have a 1-2 pubs submitted by the time I apply, and 1 Book chapter (on renal physiology)
Extracurriculars: A bunch. IMIG presentation would be most relevant, also lots of teaching/tutoring experience.
What are my chances at a top tier IM program. I wonder how many places will screen me out with the P in IM clerkship.

Update: I was able to get an internal medicine sub-I and advanced elective in gi

3rd year grades: got bumped up in a few but, Hs- surg, ob/gym,oto, Fam med. NH- outpatient internal med,orthopedic surg P-Inpatient internal, peds (might bump up)
Preclinical- all h's
I know on paper I look like a surgeon, but everyone who knows me (including myself) knows I'm better in medicine, my schedule just fell in away that I had ally surgical rotations up front ( when I was Fresh and had the most energy) and medicine rotations on the back end (when there was an element of burnout) I still performed well clinically in medicine in peds with strong evals and had people
Offer to write me letters.

 

[US_MD_Applicant]

Thank You

 

[SilverCat]

I know this is too soon (starting third year), but I need some advice:
Unranked med school
Step 1:241
Will have no AOA
Preclinical-all honors, except 1 HP in our clinical reasoning course
Research: 1 abstract as co-author, 2 papers (one with 4th author, and one with 2nd author), 1 presentation (at med school for summer research program)
My question is, do I still have a shot at an academic IM program? My dream program is UPitt--I really enjoy research, and was hoping to make it into a program where I could pursue that, but I'm wondering if my Step 1, unranked med school, and no AOA will keep me out. I spoke with my advisor and he suggested pursuing a year of research with the PI at my med school (with whom I have the current pubs). I would like to do this, but I worry that if I get no new pubs out of it, I would increase my debt load, and it may look worse on my application.

Thanks in advance.

 

[gutonc]

I know this is too soon (starting third year), but I need some advice:
Unranked med school
Step 1:241
Will have no AOA
Preclinical-all honors, except 1 HP in our clinical reasoning course
Research: 1 abstract as co-author, 2 papers (one with 4th author, and one with 2nd author), 1 presentation (at med school for summer research program)
My question is, do I still have a shot at an academic IM program? My dream program is UPitt--I really enjoy research, and was hoping to make it into a program where I could pursue that, but I'm wondering if my Step 1, unranked med school, and no AOA will keep me out. I spoke with my advisor and he suggested pursuing a year of research with the PI at my med school (with whom I have the current pubs). I would like to do this, but I worry that if I get no new pubs out of it, I would increase my debt load, and it may look worse on my application.

Thanks in advance.

Get honors in your clinicals. Come back in a year.

 

[medstudent7860]

Is UPitt a top-tier or mid-tier program?

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Is UPitt a top-tier or mid-tier program?

The "tier" of a program is something arbitrary and completely made up on SDN.

There are no tiers outside of the WAMC threads on here, and its entirely subjective

 

[ChessMaster3000]

The "tier" of a program is something arbitrary and completely made up on SDN.

There are no tiers outside of the WAMC threads on here, and its entirely subjective

that's not true. while there are no official tiers, anyone who is faculty at any academic medical center views their institution in relation to other institutions, often in terms of "a tier below" or "a tier above". tiers exist, for better or worse. an argument can be made for better--they inspire people to work harder

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

that's not true. while there are no official tiers, anyone who is faculty at any academic medical center views their institution in relation to other institutions, often in terms of "a tier below" or "a tier above". tiers exist, for better or worse. an argument can be made for better--they inspire people to work harder

got it.

 

[mrheisenberg]

Thank you!! Does anyone else have any input? Anyone familiar with UPMC and able to tell me how competitive I am for that program? And what programs in general (throughout the US) would be realistic for me and which ones would be reaches? Also, does it make a difference that IM is hard to Honors at my school (which should be reflected on the MSPE) and that it was my first core rotation?

Pitt is getting pretty competitive, if you take a look at their website, almost everyone come from top 20 med schools with a few exceptions that are majorly residents who came from the recently integrated Shadyside program that was a decent but much less competitive program. Hence, med school is a huge factor that you can't change, but if you write a touchy-feely email to the PD explaining your preference, who knows?

 

[pancrease]

*

 

[MCB]

Hi all, I'm an M4 at a solid top 50 northeast school. Decided on IM in 3rd year. Before med school I did a year of clinical research at one of the 'big 4' in an unrelated specialty. I'm interested in a competitive fellowship and wondering what my chances are at top tier residency programs in the northeast (eg BWH, MGH, Penn, BIDMC).

Step 1: 257
Step 2 CK/CS: haven't taken yet
AOA: find out this fall, think I have a good chance based on how it's scored at my school
Grades: honors in all 3rd year clerkships
Research: year of clinical research in non-IM specialty. 3 papers listed on pubmed, 1 solid 1st author. Several poster presentations and intra-departmental talks during research year. Also have poster presentation and an pub from research in M1 summer. Case report in review.
Extracurriculars: led a volunteer organization in med school
LOR: solid, no bigwigs.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

You have a solid chance at getting an interview at all of the top programs. However, there are no guarantees for interviews, especially at the very top. Be sure to apply broadly.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Is UPitt a top-tier or mid-tier program?

upper mid-tier

 

[obiwan]

Is UPitt a top-tier or mid-tier program?

how about this, if you said that pitt is a "top tier" medicine training program, I don't think many people on this site would disagree with you

 

[Instatewaiter]

The "tier" of a program is something arbitrary and completely made up on SDN.

There are no tiers outside of the WAMC threads on here, and its entirely subjective

You're wrong. This stuff is very scientifical.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Hi all, I would love some advice.

Med School: US MD, lower-tier (South)
Step 1: 218
Step 2 CK: Signed up for August. Will receive scores by 9/15/15
Class Rank: N/A
AOA: Negative
Rotations: Great comments from attendings/residents for Dean's Letter. All Pass (We only have P/F. No High Pass or Honors options).
Research:
8 PubMed Publications with Good Journals; six 1st Author; one 3rd author; one 4th author
3 Poster Presentations at National Conferences (GI): one 1st author; two 2nd author
1 Poster Presentation at local ACP
2 Manuscripts submitted to prestigious journal
LOR: Rec from Chair and PD (Been in contact with them all year long and they said they will write a strong letter). 3rd/4th recs from attendings that supervised my rotation (They said it would be strong)
EC: VP of Class, multiple research experiences; 1-year work experience as gap year; Volunteer Medical Mission Trip in Undergrad.
Awards: 2nd Place: Best Clinical Research at Local ACP

My step 1 and regional bias is my biggest weakness. I want to apply to IM programs in all major metropolitan cities: NYC, Atlanta, Miami, Philly, Chicago, SF, Boston, Houston, Seattle, Portland, etc.

1) I have no preference to which specific city. I just want to get into the best university program possible in a metropolitan city.
2) Do I have a chance at a strong university program in a major metropolitan city?
3) What is the caliber of schools that I realistically should be applying to? I would really appreciate it, if you could list some good example schools.
4) Otherwise, what would be strong programs that I should look into that are in a little smaller, yet still big city.

Because your school doesnt rank, that mediocre step 1 score is really going to hurt you. The research is a nice addiion but I still think this is going to be an uphill battle for a very strong program especialy since you listed most of the popular US cities. That said, still apply.

You have a chance but the major programs in the major cities are going to be more competitive than just their sheer prestige/quality. Because your step 1 score is below national average, you really need to maximize everything else on the app (LORs, step 2 etc)

You should be looking at a mid-tier programs with a few not midtier (above and below) thrown in there.

 

[scurvysailor]

Med school rank: DO School
USMLE Step 1: 228
USMLE Step 2: 256
Class rank: top 20%
AOA: nope
Honors: All Honors except for HP in Family and OB, should be getting honors and a letter from my sub i at a large academic center this month.
Research: a couple poster presentations and a summer research fellowship

Programs I'm interested in applying to:
Reaches:
UWash, UTSW, Mayo, UVa, Dartmouth, OHSU, Wisconsin, Colorado, Emory, Baylor, Iowa, Utah, VCU, Tulane, UF-Gainesville, Brown, Wake Forest, UCDavis, UConn

Hopefully competitive for:
UVM, Rush, UIC, MCW, UT-Houston, UT-San Antonio, USC, Georgetown, UMiami, MUSC, New Mexico, Kentucky, CCF, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Arizona, LSU,
Kansas, MCG, UMKC, St. Louis, Texas Tech, Mississippi, Missouri, Louisville, UTMB, Nebraska, Creighton

I also plan on applying to some less competitive community programs in areas that I am interested in for safeties.

Regionally I would like to stay in the south/southwest/midwest but ultimately I am open to going wherever. Would love suggestions on places I should add/remove from my list
Thanks!

 

[Stedari]

I am gonna shoot you straight here as a fellow DO. UW, UTSW, UVA, Emory are off limits to just about all DO applicants. With a mediocre step 1 and no pubs, Dartmouth, Wisconsin, Iowa, Utah, Brown, Tulane, and the aforementioned list are almost certainly out of reach for you. Of your reaches, UF, VCU, Wake Forest, OHSU, Baylor and Colorado are your best chances in descending order of likelihood (I dont know much about UCD and UConn). You should get interviews at over half of your "hopefully competitive" group. I would throw in Minnesota, Arkansas, Indiana, and the Tennessee programs for solid IM programs in your seemingly preferred geographical area.

Take everyone's advice with a grain of salt. If one of those reaches is your dream program, then apply to it. You have worked hard and will match somewhere. Good luck!

Med school rank: DO School
USMLE Step 1: 228
USMLE Step 2: 256
Class rank: top 20%
AOA: nope
Honors: All Honors except for HP in Family and OB, should be getting honors and a letter from my sub i at a large academic center this month.
Research: a couple poster presentations and a summer research fellowship

Programs I'm interested in applying to:
Reaches:
UWash, UTSW, Mayo, UVa, Dartmouth, OHSU, Wisconsin, Colorado, Emory, Baylor, Iowa, Utah, VCU, Tulane, UF-Gainesville, Brown, Wake Forest, UCDavis, UConn

Hopefully competitive for:
UVM, Rush, UIC, MCW, UT-Houston, UT-San Antonio, USC, Georgetown, UMiami, MUSC, New Mexico, Kentucky, CCF, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Arizona, LSU,
Kansas, MCG, UMKC, St. Louis, Texas Tech, Mississippi, Missouri, Louisville, UTMB, Nebraska, Creighton

I also plan on applying to some less competitive community programs in areas that I am interested in for safeties.

Regionally I would like to stay in the south/southwest/midwest but ultimately I am open to going wherever. Would love suggestions on places I should add/remove from my list
Thanks!

 

[scurvysailor]

I am gonna shoot you straight here as a fellow DO. UW, UTSW, UVA, Emory are off limits to just about all DO applicants. With a mediocre step 1 and no pubs, Dartmouth, Wisconsin, Iowa, Utah, Brown, Tulane, and the aforementioned list are almost certainly out of reach for you. Of your reaches, UF, VCU, Wake Forest, OHSU, Baylor and Colorado are your best chances in descending order of likelihood (I dont know much about UCD and UConn). You should get interviews at over half of your "hopefully competitive" group. I would throw in Minnesota, Arkansas, Indiana, and the Tennessee programs for solid IM programs in your seemingly preferred geographical area.

Take everyone's advice with a grain of salt. If one of those reaches is your dream program, then apply to it. You have worked hard and will match somewhere. Good luck!

Appreciate the response. That's pretty much the perspective I was looking to get. I'm not dead set on any particular program just trying to flesh out a good list of programs that will at least look at my application so that I'm not just throwing money out the window.

What's your opinion on a good number of applications?

 

[mndfrker]

Med school rank: Lower State School (MD)
Step 1: 220
Step 2: Haven't taken yet - scheduled for mid Sept
AOA: Nope
Year 1/2: Middle
Year 3: H - Peds, HP - medicine, surg (all great evals), Pass on all others, 1 red flag: bombed the psych shelf cuz of my thesis deadline (I kick myself everyday)
Research: Have a PhD so a lot (15+ publications incl 4 1st authors incl a nature journal and co-authors in PNAS, etc, 20+ posters and talks)
Recs: Good ones from family med preceptor, internal med people, and researchers.
Extracurriculars: volunteer/leadership positions at free clinic

Looking to match into an IM university program in the NE, not super picky. Aiming for places like UMass, Temple, RWJ, etc. Taking a lot of time to study for Step 2 cuz I've always been a nervous test taker and kill it. Sound reasonable or delusional?

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

Med school rank: Lower State School (MD)
Step 1: 220
Step 2: Haven't taken yet - scheduled for mid Sept
AOA: Nope
Year 1/2: Middle
Year 3: H - Peds, HP - medicine, surg (all great evals), Pass on all others, 1 red flag: bombed the psych shelf cuz of my thesis deadline (I kick myself everyday)
Research: Have a PhD so a lot (15+ publications incl 4 1st authors incl a nature journal and co-authors in PNAS, etc, 20+ posters and talks)
Recs: Good ones from family med preceptor, internal med people, and researchers.
Extracurriculars: volunteer/leadership positions at free clinic

Looking to match into an IM university program in the NE, not super picky. Aiming for places like UMass, Temple, RWJ, etc. Taking a lot of time to study for Step 2 cuz I've always been a nervous test taker and kill it. Sound reasonable or delusional?

very reasonable, perhaps lowballing yourself. you will be fine

 

[gutonc]

Med school rank: Lower State School (MD)
Step 1: 220
Step 2: Haven't taken yet - scheduled for mid Sept
AOA: Nope
Year 1/2: Middle
Year 3: H - Peds, HP - medicine, surg (all great evals), Pass on all others, 1 red flag: bombed the psych shelf cuz of my thesis deadline (I kick myself everyday)
Research: Have a PhD so a lot (15+ publications incl 4 1st authors incl a nature journal and co-authors in PNAS, etc, 20+ posters and talks)
Recs: Good ones from family med preceptor, internal med people, and researchers.
Extracurriculars: volunteer/leadership positions at free clinic

Looking to match into an IM university program in the NE, not super picky. Aiming for places like UMass, Temple, RWJ, etc. Taking a lot of time to study for Step 2 cuz I've always been a nervous test taker and kill it. Sound reasonable or delusional?

Are you applying PSTP/research track? Because you'd be a shoe in for that at places that might not otherwise look closely at your app.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Med school rank: Lower State School (MD)
Step 1: 220
Step 2: Haven't taken yet - scheduled for mid Sept
AOA: Nope
Year 1/2: Middle
Year 3: H - Peds, HP - medicine, surg (all great evals), Pass on all others, 1 red flag: bombed the psych shelf cuz of my thesis deadline (I kick myself everyday)
Research: Have a PhD so a lot (15+ publications incl 4 1st authors incl a nature journal and co-authors in PNAS, etc, 20+ posters and talks)
Recs: Good ones from family med preceptor, internal med people, and researchers.
Extracurriculars: volunteer/leadership positions at free clinic

Looking to match into an IM university program in the NE, not super picky. Aiming for places like UMass, Temple, RWJ, etc. Taking a lot of time to study for Step 2 cuz I've always been a nervous test taker and kill it. Sound reasonable or delusional?

Haha, I read the first part of your stats thinking "wow, this guy is like a normal person and not a neurotic SDN-er", right until I got to the part where you've published with a PhD under your belt. But in all seriousness -

You'll probably be fine with UMass, Temple, or RWJ. All are good programs, but I would still send it to the Harvard/Hopkins/Penn tier of schools because, well, frankly, all you have to lose is money, and someone might like your application because of your incredibly good academic resume. Other mid tiers I would consider include Jefferson, University of MD, Georgetown, VCU, GWU, in addition to those you listed.

 

[mndfrker]

very reasonable, perhaps lowballing yourself. you will be fine

Thanks for the reply. I've been psyching myself out a bit

Are you applying PSTP/research track? Because you'd be a shoe in for that at places that might not otherwise look closely at your app.

I was planning to try some more competitive places as a PSTP just to see what would happen. Like I said, I'm not looking for Hopkins or MGH, just a place where I could get trained well and move on for fellowship and do research work. Thanks for the advice.

Haha, I read the first part of your stats thinking "wow, this guy is like a normal person and not a neurotic SDN-er", right until I got to the part where you've published with a PhD under your belt. But in all seriousness -

You'll probably be fine with UMass, Temple, or RWJ. All are good programs, but I would still send it to the Harvard/Hopkins/Penn tier of schools because, well, frankly, all you have to lose is money, and someone might like your application because of your incredibly good academic resume. Other mid tiers I would consider include Jefferson, University of MD, Georgetown, VCU, GWU, in addition to those you listed.

Haha, thanks I guess. Granted my scores are from a few years ago, but for the most part I was always a pretty average med student. I really just enjoyed research a lot and I just happened to have a really good mentor and did well during my time there. I think I'm just nervous figuring out where I actually fall since all the scales are a bit distorted since time has past. I appreciate your suggestions, they were definitely places I was looking at as more competitive options. I'm just applying broadly and seeing what happens. Like you said, it's just money, but it's nice to at least hear that I'm not completely out of line about where I'm aiming.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Haha, thanks I guess. Granted my scores are from a few years ago, but for the most part I was always a pretty average med student. I really just enjoyed research a lot and I just happened to have a really good mentor and did well during my time there. I think I'm just nervous figuring out where I actually fall since all the scales are a bit distorted since time has past. I appreciate your suggestions, they were definitely places I was looking at as more competitive options. I'm just applying broadly and seeing what happens. Like you said, it's just money, but it's nice to at least hear that I'm not completely out of line about where I'm aiming.

Yeah, and like I said, people tend to use SDN as a metric too much. I know folks with much more mediocre stats than yours who got their top university residency choices (meaning, AMGs from a state university med school). So I guess what I'm saying is, you're better than you thought you were Best of luck!

 

[poxatonyphil]

I guess I'll try.
Med School: non-US (US-IMG, not a Caribbean school)
Step 1: 244
Step 2 CK: 255
CS: pass (all exams were passed on first attempt)
Class Rank: 1st quartile
AOA: No AOA chapter in my school
Rotations: Great comments from attending/residents for MSPE. All Pass with honors (Realize this isn't very looked at since it's a non-US school)
Research:
PhD (partly done in US, but degree from country outside US)
13 PubMed Publications in reputable peer-reviewed journals (5 1st Author)
1 Oral and 2 Poster Presentations at International Conferences (GI): all 1st author / many poster presentations as co-author (will not include in app)
1 Manuscript recently submitted to prestigious journal

LOR: 3 to 4 strong letters from hands-on externships in 2 top 30 US med programs (Assistant Professors that know me very well) / 1 research letter from reputable program
EC: P of Class, multiple research experiences; many volunteer experiences in poor regions of countries in South America; Volunteer Medical Mission Trip in med school, tutoring during med school
Awards: Young Investigator Award (1st place) from a US Specialty Association, Finalist in Best Research Competition in National Congress outside US, Travel Grant to International Conference outside US

I realize I'm still an IMG and that I don't have letters from high-profile/big-wig persons. What are possible reputable programs that might be in reach (I know big 4 are a definite no-no)?

 

[sk8ngli]

Hello SDN World,

I am an American MS4 interested in Primary Care IM. I am planning on applying to programs with separate Primary Care IM Residencies if they have them and categorical if they do not. I am also relatively geographically bound by my significant other and that area happens to be the Boston area.
I am historically TERRIBLE at standardized tests.

I got a 201 on Step 1. Across the board on my clinical clerkships, I got an Outstanding from my evals, then struggled on the shelf, and ended up with an "Above Average" (A + C = B average). Except in Psych where I did alright on my shelf and got an Outstanding. I obviously wanted to rock my CK, but then...I struggled again.
I was planning on taking my CK last week, but then bombed an NBME Form exam and panicked.

So here is where I am at...
Step 1: 201
Form 4 Practice CK: 206
Form 6 Practice CK: 193
Form 7 Practice CK: 206
UWorld Practice CK: 221 (my advisor tells me that UWorld overestimates)
Form 3 Practice CK: 193
Today is July 29.
ERAS opens on Sept 15.

Unfortunately because of the lottery, I got my Sub-I from Aug 24-Sept 17. I don't think it's reasonable to take CK during my Sub-I.

So, the question is when should I take CK?
Option 1) I am on a moderately busy consult service this block, but I could theoretically take CK Aug 22/23. But I certainly will not magically pull a 250 on CK if I take it in a couple weeks.
Option 2) I could take it at the end of Sept, after ERAS opens and submit my application without a CK score, but my score won't be out until end of October. This will be after my Sub-I where I hopefully will learn a lot! (but maybe also tired).
Option 3) I could take October off to study. Take CK mid-October. Rock CK (?) I hope. Scores not out til mid-Sept. Applying to IM programs in New England and ideally more academic primary care programs with just a Step 1 that says 201 and a CK that says ???

Thoughts?
Thanks so much!

 

[235009]

Hello SDN World,

I am an American MS4 interested in Primary Care IM. I am planning on applying to programs with separate Primary Care IM Residencies if they have them and categorical if they do not. I am also relatively geographically bound by my significant other and that area happens to be the Boston area.
I am historically TERRIBLE at standardized tests.

I got a 201 on Step 1. Across the board on my clinical clerkships, I got an Outstanding from my evals, then struggled on the shelf, and ended up with an "Above Average" (A + C = B average). Except in Psych where I did alright on my shelf and got an Outstanding. I obviously wanted to rock my CK, but then...I struggled again.
I was planning on taking my CK last week, but then bombed an NBME Form exam and panicked.

So here is where I am at...
Step 1: 201
Form 4 Practice CK: 206
Form 6 Practice CK: 193
Form 7 Practice CK: 206
UWorld Practice CK: 221 (my advisor tells me that UWorld overestimates)
Form 3 Practice CK: 193
Today is July 29.
ERAS opens on Sept 15.

Unfortunately because of the lottery, I got my Sub-I from Aug 24-Sept 17. I don't think it's reasonable to take CK during my Sub-I.

So, the question is when should I take CK?
Option 1) I am on a moderately busy consult service this block, but I could theoretically take CK Aug 22/23. But I certainly will not magically pull a 250 on CK if I take it in a couple weeks.
Option 2) I could take it at the end of Sept, after ERAS opens and submit my application without a CK score, but my score won't be out until end of October. This will be after my Sub-I where I hopefully will learn a lot! (but maybe also tired).
Option 3) I could take October off to study. Take CK mid-October. Rock CK (?) I hope. Scores not out til mid-Sept. Applying to IM programs in New England and ideally more academic primary care programs with just a Step 1 that says 201 and a CK that says ???

Thoughts?
Thanks so much!

This is a real tough one. The absolute WORST thing you can do is to fail CK and with the current passing score set at 209 you've essentially not passed any of the (real) practice tests you've taken. If you had posted this without the practice test scores everyone would've suggested you take CK early and "rock" it but t this point there is significant concern that you wouldn't even pass it. With those practice exam scores I would say you can't risk taking CK in August and having no choice but to report it on your application. You need to take it late enough that you retain the option of whether to release the score later on (essentially make sure you submit ERAS before the score comes out). Also doing your sub-I will help you with CK so taking it after SubI will be beneficial.

The second problem is your geographic restriction. The only redeeming factor is that you want to do primary care. In MA your target will essentially be community programs: lahey, baystate, cambridge health alliance, etc. No shot at MGH, BI, Brigham. BU may give you an interview with an app to the primary care track but highly unlikely as they'll have less risky candidates. You wouldn't be in the running for a categorical spot at BU or Tufts. Not sure whether UMass would give you a shot. Other than that you'll have to apply very broadly in new england to both university and community programs and hope for the best with a Step 1 score that's barely passing.

Finally, which school do you go to? Is it in NE? Is the IM program competitive? It may be your best bet and if it's not particularly competitive (matches DOs and/or IMGs) you may be able to convince them to take you by showing strong vocal interest in staying.

 

[MedEdCards]

Med school rank: Top 5
USMLE Step 1: 258, Step 2 CK: 272, Step 2 CK: Pass
AOA: Yes
Honors: Honors in all clerkships, honors in Sub I and Cardiology elective
Research: Year out in non-basic science, and non-clinical research with 3-4 publications, also poster presentation from first year, and poster presentation from before medical school
Recommendations: From research mentor and Sub I attendings
Extracurriculars: Leader of cards interest group, cultural affinity group, tutoring at 10-12 hours per week during year out in Step 1 and 2

I am interested in Cardiology and Medical Education. I have a strong interest in ending up at MGH, Brigham or Penn due to family reasons. Will obviously be applying more broadly, but am dedicated to doing whatever I can to make my application attractive for those programs. What are my gaps? What can I do (or could I have done) to beef up my app?
(I will also be couples matching with my spouse. They are less interested in academic medicine, and just want to match at a program where they will be happy. Interested to hear how you think this may affect my application)

 

[gutonc]

Med school rank: Top 5
USMLE Step 1: 258, Step 2 CK: 272, Step 2 CK: Pass
AOA: Yes
Honors: Honors in all clerkships, honors in Sub I and Cardiology elective
Research: Year out in non-basic science, and non-clinical research with 3-4 publications, also poster presentation from first year, and poster presentation from before medical school
Recommendations: From research mentor and Sub I attendings
Extracurriculars: Leader of cards interest group, cultural affinity group, tutoring at 10-12 hours per week during year out in Step 1 and 2

I am interested in Cardiology and Medical Education. I have a strong interest in ending up at MGH, Brigham or Penn due to family reasons. Will obviously be applying more broadly, but am dedicated to doing whatever I can to make my application attractive for those programs. What are my gaps? What can I do (or could I have done) to beef up my app?
(I will also be couples matching with my spouse. They are less interested in academic medicine, and just want to match at a program where they will be happy. Interested to hear how you think this may affect my application)

I don't think there's much you can, or need, do to beef up your app at this point, it looks pretty good.

To the couple's match issue, if you guys are looking strictly in the NE, you're probably going to be just fine. If she's not a Penn/MGH candidate (or just doesn't want to be in that kind of a program), I hear there might be a couple of other IM programs in the area for her to consider.

 

[MedEdCards]

I don't think there's much you can, or need, do to beef up your app at this point, it looks pretty good.

To the couple's match issue, if you guys are looking strictly in the NE, you're probably going to be just fine. If she's not a Penn/MGH candidate (or just doesn't want to be in that kind of a program), I hear there might be a couple of other IM programs in the area for her to consider.

Yes of course. I wasn't super specific with that. She's applying in OB GYN and will likely not be a Penn/MGH candidate. I'm more interested about how couples matching in general may affect our ability to be picky about location. I've heard of many couples falling 20-40 spots down on their list and as I mentioned, I'm invested in maximizing my chances at a few choice programs. If she is happy matching at a program she will be happy at in Boston or Philly (which can be one of many) and I'm more narrow, what level of control can we reasonably expect to have over where we land?

 

[sk8ngli]

This is a real tough one. The absolute WORST thing you can do is to fail CK and with the current passing score set at 209 you've essentially not passed any of the (real) practice tests you've taken. If you had posted this without the practice test scores everyone would've suggested you take CK early and "rock" it but t this point there is significant concern that you wouldn't even pass it. With those practice exam scores I would say you can't risk taking CK in August and having no choice but to report it on your application. You need to take it late enough that you retain the option of whether to release the score later on (essentially make sure you submit ERAS before the score comes out). Also doing your sub-I will help you with CK so taking it after SubI will be beneficial.

The second problem is your geographic restriction. The only redeeming factor is that you want to do primary care. In MA your target will essentially be community programs: lahey, baystate, cambridge health alliance, etc. No shot at MGH, BI, Brigham. BU may give you an interview with an app to the primary care track but highly unlikely as they'll have less risky candidates. You wouldn't be in the running for a categorical spot at BU or Tufts. Not sure whether UMass would give you a shot. Other than that you'll have to apply very broadly in new england to both university and community programs and hope for the best with a Step 1 score that's barely passing.

Finally, which school do you go to? Is it in NE? Is the IM program competitive? It may be your best bet and if it's not particularly competitive (matches DOs and/or IMGs) you may be able to convince them to take you by showing strong vocal interest in staying.

Thanks for your response. I know I'm in a pickle.

I go to a state school that I hope would overlook my Steps so that I could stay, but I won't make the mistake of thinking that anything is a guarantee in this game. My SO and I have discussed that I could/should stay here if necessary, but obviously I'd prefer that we don't have to go long distance. I also just want to get an idea of what places I should be looking at given my situation.

You mentioned "You need to take it late enough that you retain the option of whether to release the score later on (essentially make sure you submit ERAS before the score comes out)." What does that mean exactly? I think you agree that taking CK in Aug might not be pretty. Does it make a difference if I take it at the end of Sept (after submitting ERAS) or sometime in October (also after submitting ERAS)?
Also, you mentioned CHA as an option. I thought it was a relatively competitive Harvard related program just based on their website their residents come from some great programs.

Thanks!

 

[THH]

.

 

[poxatonyphil]

Is this an AMG-only thread by any chance?
Can someone give his/her two cents on my chances?

Do I stand a chance with programs like Yale, Mayo, Cornell, Hopkins, Duke, CC? Too much of a reach?

What about Emory, Baylor, UWash, UT Southwestern, BU, Mt Sinai, UPitt? Still too much of a reach?

 

[Chaokoh]

Hi everyone
Pretty new here had this account but pretty much been lurking. Could really use a little advice and my school doesn't give much

Med School: Ross (Carrib IMG - US citizen)
Step 1: 230
CS: Pass
Step 2 CK: Failed (today) - Retaking in 2 months

Had NBMEs >230 - not quite sure what happened, probably panic​

Class Rank: NA
Rotations: Good comments from attendings for MSPE.
Research: 1 case-study pending - major EU journal, few undergrad ones
LOR: 3 strong letters from US hospitals (2 IM specialties, 1FM), 2 chiefs.

Just curious is it worth trying for IM/FM (applying ~100 programs each), should I go FM only, or reconsider my life?

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Hi everyone
Pretty new here had this account but pretty much been lurking. Could really use a little advice and my school doesn't give much

Med School: Ross (Carrib IMG - US citizen)
Step 1: 230
CS: Pass
Step 2 CK: Failed (today) - Retaking in 2 months

Had NBMEs >230 - not quite sure what happened, probably panic​

Class Rank: NA
Rotations: Good comments from attendings for MSPE.
Research: 1 case-study pending - major EU journal, few undergrad ones
LOR: 3 strong letters from US hospitals (2 IM specialties, 1FM), 2 chiefs.

Just curious is it worth trying for IM/FM (applying ~100 programs each), should I go FM only, or reconsider my life?

If you apply to 200 community programs split between IM and FM, I would assume you will be OK. Spots go unfilled every year.

 

[scudiera]

redacted