Official 2014-2015 IM WAMC Thread

[IMPD]

no offense to anyone, but this has turned into pandora's black box of "WAMC as a DO/IMG?"

If you look at the advising that's going on on Usmleforum (please don't) or worse yet, valuemd, you can see what a bastion of light and knowledge SDN is. I'm not kidding. And judging by the questions I get asked from our medical school, Dean's offices aren't doing a bang-up job either. Not sure what the reasons are for this.

Two most common questions "How do I gauge how good an applicant I am" and "How do I gauge how good a program is".

I actually had an applicant sit down and go through 50+ program's websites and create an AMG/IMG distribution spreadsheet to illustrate the differences. If you wanted to get more crazy, you could assign points to the AMG schools and start to really profile residencies. The amount of missing information is large, however, and idiosyncratic preferences are powreful. So, it would be of limited usefulness overall.

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[disorder]

If you look at the advising that's going on on Usmleforum (please don't) or worse yet, valuemd, you can see what a bastion of light and knowledge SDN is. I'm not kidding. And judging by the questions I get asked from our medical school, Dean's offices aren't doing a bang-up job either. Not sure what the reasons are for this.

Two most common questions "How do I gauge how good an applicant I am" and "How do I gauge how good a program is".

I actually had an applicant sit down and go through 50+ program's websites and create an AMG/IMG distribution spreadsheet to illustrate the differences. If you wanted to get more crazy, you could assign points to the AMG schools and start to really profile residencies. The amount of missing information is large, however, and idiosyncratic preferences are powreful. So, it would be of limited usefulness overall.

I think the Dean's offices are too far detached and the best/most accurate data comes from your peers. I e-mailed recently matched grads and asked them what their scores, grades, extra experiences, and where the applied/did they get an interview/what they thought about the programs. This was the best information I got.

 

[gutonc]

I think the Dean's offices are too far detached and the best/most accurate data comes from your peers. I e-mailed recently matched grads and asked them what their scores, grades, extra experiences, and where the applied/did they get an interview/what they thought about the programs. This was the best information I got.

Dean's offices are virtually worthless in this setting, even moreso than the typical pre-med advisor you run across. You may get a better idea by talking to the PD of your specialty at your med school (assuming you're an AMG). But yes, recent grads and somewhere like SDN (for all its obvious flaws) is about the best you're going to get.

 

[thehundredthone]

I actually had an applicant sit down and go through 50+ program's websites and create an AMG/IMG distribution spreadsheet to illustrate the differences. If you wanted to get more crazy, you could assign points to the AMG schools and start to really profile residencies. The amount of missing information is large, however, and idiosyncratic preferences are powreful. So, it would be of limited usefulness overall.

So I'm not the only crazy one. This is also why I posted in the thread, I thought I would get by on existing information but my spreadsheet, threads from the last couple of years and even information from recent graduates (given the small number that apply for residency in the US) still don't allow me to make a definitive list of programs to apply to. I've been told to apply to anywhere from 75-200 programs depending on who I ask, and there are 220+ to choose from even after eliminating ones I know for various reasons are not worth applying to, from a list of 280+. Granted it's not something anyone can really answer clearly, but I figured it was worth a shot.

 

[Trogghunter]

Dean's offices are virtually worthless in this setting, even moreso than the typical pre-med advisor you run across. You may get a better idea by talking to the PD of your specialty at your med school (assuming you're an AMG). But yes, recent grads and somewhere like SDN (for all its obvious flaws) is about the best you're going to get.

Second that. I went to my dean's office with my app and scores in hand and all that he said was that I was competitive to match.

 

[danvasta]

More info required.

Where did you go? There is a vast difference in "overseas" schools.

Where was your undergrad?

Your statement about "wanting a really good uni program" and "shooting for a lower tier community" program shows too much black/white thinking. Really good uni programs do take IMGs, but as I just demonstrated, the term "IMG" encompasses a huge variety of applicants. Your lack of research probably means that you're not a stellar IMG. Your scores are good. Your school's reputation counts for A LOT. The rest of your pedigree counts.

There are many decent uni-affiliated programs that take IMGs and some straight up uni programs that take the occasional IMG. If you are wiling to provide more info, I can give you a bit more in reply.

Sorry for the late response.
I went to med school in one of the top 10 med schools in India and I did fairly decent in med school. I have research experience in terms of working at a lab at Tufts but no publications yet and I do have strong letters from US university based physicians. People from my school have matched into the top tier programs and to the mid tier programs (I'm not sure if that makes a difference). But there are graduates from my school who matched into Uconn, Tufts, UCSF etc. But yes I know my lack of publications and the fact that I am an IMG may do me some harm, and I also need a visa. Either way I could use some advise as to which programs I should be applying to considering my long term goals (Hemonc fellowship etc)

 

[drk]

IMG YoG 2013 - Good school in India but probably not that well known.
Step 1 240+
Step 2 250+
Step 2 CS Pass
All first attempts.
5 months observership in a teaching hospital/private practice
1 month observership in patient at a teaching hospital
5-6months(and will be ongoing) research in cardiology at a well known university hospital which led to a poster presentation at a national conference and abstract publication. Before the end of the year will have that abstract turned into a full article and submitted, another invited review, and possibly two more articles from animal research we are doing.
A 2 month internship I recently did at a well known agency that led to my name being published in one of their reports as well as a systematic review that I co-first authored but its publication date wont be till next year.

What level of programs should I be looking at? I know ill probably get an interview from the place I did my research but they don't usually end up matching many IMGs. I have no geographic limitations, though I am partial to the D.C. area. Anyone know what my chances are in that area? Thanks.

 

[lymphohystiocytosis]

Alright, my application isn't as complete as some of you other guys, but I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Med school: NOT top 25 US allo in the midwest
Step 1: 255
Step 2: Taking soon
Grades: H in IM, Peds, Psych, Family. HP in Surg, Neuro, ObGyn
AOA: Maybe? Not sure, I'm probably a borderline candidate. We only do senior and the results aren't in yet, so wish me luck.
Letters: 2 good ones from junior attendings, one from a fellowship director.
Research: A lot of sweat and effort with little to show for it. Some abstracts published, poster presentation at a national conference, working on a manuscript.

I'll attach a list of programs I'm interested in. I'm sure someone will complain about how coast-centric it is, but it's a mixture of places I want to live for personal reasons (read: my significant other told me she'd be ok living there and would be able to get a job). In general, it's pretty easy to pick reach schools because everybody knows what they are. But I'm hoping for some input in picking safeties. For example, I know in Chicago I'll be applying to the University of Chicago and Northwestern. But for safety programs in the region, how on earth do I decide between UIC, Rush, and Loyola? Do I have to apply to each and see how I feel about each? The travel costs will add up quickly. Or in North Carolina, I know UNC and Duke are awesome programs. But is my best second line option there Wake Forest? I've heard it's a sleeper program, with less of a reputation but still good training, but it's kind of far from the more exciting parts of the state.

University of Michigan
MGH
BIDMC
Tufts
Brigham
Boston Medical Center
Georgetown
George Washington
Hopkins
University of Chicago
Northwestern
Loyola
UIC
Rush
UNC
Duke
Wake Forest
Montefiore
Jacobi
Beth Israel NY
Columbia
Mount Sinai (Icahn SOM)
Cornell
NYU
UPenn
Thomas Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
University of Washington
OHSU
UCSF
Stanford

 

[235009]

Alright, my application isn't as complete as some of you other guys, but I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Med school: NOT top 25 US allo in the midwest
Step 1: 255
Step 2: Taking soon
Grades: H in IM, Peds, Psych, Family. HP in Surg, Neuro, ObGyn
AOA: Maybe? Not sure, I'm probably a borderline candidate. We only do senior and the results aren't in yet, so wish me luck.
Letters: 2 good ones from junior attendings, one from a fellowship director.
Research: A lot of sweat and effort with little to show for it. Some abstracts published, poster presentation at a national conference, working on a manuscript.

I'll attach a list of programs I'm interested in. I'm sure someone will complain about how coast-centric it is, but it's a mixture of places I want to live for personal reasons (read: my significant other told me she'd be ok living there and would be able to get a job). In general, it's pretty easy to pick reach schools because everybody knows what they are. But I'm hoping for some input in picking safeties. For example, I know in Chicago I'll be applying to the University of Chicago and Northwestern. But for safety programs in the region, how on earth do I decide between UIC, Rush, and Loyola? Do I have to apply to each and see how I feel about each? The travel costs will add up quickly. Or in North Carolina, I know UNC and Duke are awesome programs. But is my best second line option there Wake Forest? I've heard it's a sleeper program, with less of a reputation but still good training, but it's kind of far from the more exciting parts of the state.

University of Michigan
MGH
BIDMC
Tufts
Brigham
Boston Medical Center
Georgetown
George Washington
Hopkins
University of Chicago
Northwestern
Loyola
UIC
Rush
UNC
Duke
Wake Forest
Montefiore
Jacobi
Beth Israel NY
Columbia
Mount Sinai (Icahn SOM)
Cornell
NYU
UPenn
Thomas Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
University of Washington
OHSU
UCSF
Stanford

Your list looks very reasonable. If you are looking to cut down you can start with Drexel, BI NY, Jacobi. Then maybe GW and Wake Forest. Applying is cheap though and you can always cancel interviews if you get too many.

 

[danvasta]

Sorry I had to bump this up cause of no response!!
I graduated med school overseas (top 10 in India.. not sure if its known but people from my school have matched into mid-high tier programs) last year. My scores are as follows
Step 1 :234
Step 2: 255
I have about 4 months of USCE in the form of electives at an Ivy league university. 1 month of observership at a university school
Lab research - same well known hospital (~3-4 months ) + 1 case report (yet to be submitted)
I want to do hem/onc or Endocrine eventually as a fellowship so I want to match into a really good university based program. I know needing a visa and the fact that I am an IMG may play against me. All my letters are from US physicians again from these top universities and I know they are strong.
What are my chances of matching into a really good university program?
My dream programs would be : Tufts, BU, Brown, Emory, Baylor, Mt Sinai (NY), Drexel, etc

 

[jdh71]

no offense to anyone, but this has turned into pandora's black box of "WAMC as a DO/IMG?"

To be fair these are the people that ACTUALLY need advice. For the AMG it is formulaic. And it's been repeated again and again and again in here. Year after year.

 

[235009]

To be fair these are the people that ACTUALLY need advice. For the AMG it is formulaic. And it's been repeated again and again and again in here. Year after year.

It's too bad the FMGs and IMGs don't come back and share their experiences and offer advice. I think it's very noble of the people here to refrain from commenting on situations they are unfamiliar with.

 

[jdh71]

It's too bad the FMGs and IMGs don't come back and share their experiences and offer advice. I think it's very noble of the people here to refrain from commenting on situations they are unfamiliar with.

I do agree on this point for sure.

 

[qwaszx69]

deleted

 

[Kchen22]

Just wondering if anyone knows about the Hopkins Bayview and Yale Primary Care Tract programs? Anyone know the caliber of these programs compared to their categorical counterparts and competitiveness to get in?

 

[WilburSK]

I am a 4th year, interested in ophtho as a specialty. I did well on STEP: 246. Decent research, nothing amazing. Really good letters from faculty. Middling med school. No AOA.

Here's the worst part though. I got all pass during my 3rd year. We have HP and H, but I didn't manage to snag any of those grades. (70-75% get pass for any given rotation)

In any case, my dean suggested I apply for internal as a back up. I just wanted to gauge your thoughts on my chances for a spot at one of the following places:

UNC, Wake Forrest, Duke (long shot I know), Vandy, UVA, UW, Colorado, U Kansas, UMKC, VCU, SC in Charlestown

Any other options for me in these areas of the country?

 

[footballyus]

why double apply? If you really want to do optho, who dont you put your all into that and if it doesn't work out do a research year and try again?

 

[WilburSK]

Good question. But mostly cause I like heme-onc a lot as well. So I'm kinda just letting the cards fall as they may. I just want to know if I am overshooting for internal, as I don't want to miss matching in it too.

As you can see, I am pretty interested in matching in NC, SC, Colorado, Nashville, Northwest, KC area, and Virginia. Essentially I'm wondering which programs I should apply to

 

[FOLFOX6]

The pass in medicine will really hurt you at some of the more competitive programs more than anything else. Do you have research in heme onc? I know you will have optho aways but a strong letter/ honors from a medicine SubI would really really help your application.

 

[WilburSK]

Thanks for your input. Do you think any particular programs in these areas would be in reach for me?

 

[Stedari]

You have a strong application other than the 3rd year grades. I think you would have an excellent chance at the KC area programs.

 

[WilburSK]

Cool thanks. Any chance in the other areas?

 

[johndoe3344]

UNC -
Wake Forrest +
Duke -
Vandy -
UVA -/=
UW -
Colorado =
U Kansas +
UMKC +
VCU +
SC +

 

[hawksfan]

Step 1: 225 (sighhhh, such a bummer--the biggest thing stressing me out)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 250/pass
School: Midwest, usually ranked ~28-30
Class Rank: We don't rank, but top 50%
Grades in Clekship: Honors in Family Medicine, Psych, and Sub-I (hopefully); High pass in Surgery, inpatient IM (3rd year), outpatient IM, Derm, Neurology, and ENT
AOA: Definitely not
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Undergrad research with a poster in med school, submitting two papers this semester but after applications will be out
Overview of where you want to end up: probably just Midwest, but definitely an academic center. My main thing is that i'm applying to a lot of places for fun/just to see what happens since I likely won't get an interview because of my very low step 1, but i'm also really afraid that my list isn't big enough to get enough safety interview as well. would really appreciate feedback/if people think i'll be okay interview-wise.

Midwest: U Colorado, Iowa, Loyola, NW, Rush, U of Chicago, Indiana, U Michigan, Mayo, U Minnesota, Wash U, U Nebraska, Case Western, Ohio State, MCW, and U Wisconsin
East: Emory, Beth Israel Deaconess, UNC, Wake Forest, Darmouth, NYU, Thomas Jefferson, U Penn, Vanderbilt
West: UCSD, Legacy Emmanuel, U Utah, U Wash
South: UT Southwestern

 

[reslife]

Step 1: 225 (sighhhh, such a bummer--the biggest thing stressing me out)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 250/pass
School: Midwest, usually ranked ~28-30
Class Rank: We don't rank, but top 50%
Grades in Clekship: Honors in Family Medicine, Psych, and Sub-I (hopefully); High pass in Surgery, inpatient IM (3rd year), outpatient IM, Derm, Neurology, and ENT
AOA: Definitely not
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Undergrad research with a poster in med school, submitting two papers this semester but after applications will be out
Overview of where you want to end up: probably just Midwest, but definitely an academic center. My main thing is that i'm applying to a lot of places for fun/just to see what happens since I likely won't get an interview because of my very low step 1, but i'm also really afraid that my list isn't big enough to get enough safety interview as well. would really appreciate feedback/if people think i'll be okay interview-wise.

Midwest: U Colorado, Iowa, Loyola, NW, Rush, U of Chicago, Indiana, U Michigan, Mayo, U Minnesota, Wash U, U Nebraska, Case Western, Ohio State, MCW, and U Wisconsin
East: Emory, Beth Israel Deaconess, UNC, Wake Forest, Darmouth, NYU, Thomas Jefferson, U Penn, Vanderbilt
West: UCSD, Legacy Emmanuel, U Utah, U Wash
South: UT Southwestern

wow, this is me; similar scores, grades and regional preference (will likely add more community programs than you have tho)
major difference being that instead of attending a Midwest md school, I attend a Midwest DO school.
WAMC?

 

[disorder]

Step 1: 225 (sighhhh, such a bummer--the biggest thing stressing me out)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 250/pass
School: Midwest, usually ranked ~28-30
Class Rank: We don't rank, but top 50%
Grades in Clekship: Honors in Family Medicine, Psych, and Sub-I (hopefully); High pass in Surgery, inpatient IM (3rd year), outpatient IM, Derm, Neurology, and ENT
AOA: Definitely not
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Undergrad research with a poster in med school, submitting two papers this semester but after applications will be out
Overview of where you want to end up: probably just Midwest, but definitely an academic center. My main thing is that i'm applying to a lot of places for fun/just to see what happens since I likely won't get an interview because of my very low step 1, but i'm also really afraid that my list isn't big enough to get enough safety interview as well. would really appreciate feedback/if people think i'll be okay interview-wise.

Midwest: U Colorado, Iowa, Loyola, NW, Rush, U of Chicago, Indiana, U Michigan, Mayo, U Minnesota, Wash U, U Nebraska, Case Western, Ohio State, MCW, and U Wisconsin
East: Emory, Beth Israel Deaconess, UNC, Wake Forest, Darmouth, NYU, Thomas Jefferson, U Penn, Vanderbilt
West: UCSD, Legacy Emmanuel, U Utah, U Wash
South: UT Southwestern

Midwest: U Colorado (= -), Iowa (+), Loyola (+), NW(-), Rush (+), U of Chicago (-), Indiana (+), U Michigan (= -), Mayo (-), U Minnesota (+), Wash U (-), U Nebraska (+), Case Western (+), Ohio State (+), MCW (+), and U Wisconsin (+)
East: Emory (-), Beth Israel Deaconess (-), UNC (-), Wake Forest (+), Darmouth (= -), NYU (-), Thomas Jefferson (+), U Penn (-), Vanderbilt (-)
West: UCSD (-), Legacy Emmanuel (+), U Utah (+), U Wash (-)
South: UT Southwestern (-)

You should be fine. Couple of random programs... like why Legacy Emmanual? I can think of other good community programs you may be competitive for like Scripps Green or CPMC in CA. or Virginia Mason in WA. All three are "better" than Legacy. You could have your try at OHSU (= -). Why not dump BID and add BU (= +). Dump NYU and add Mt Sinai (= -).

 

[hawksfan]

Midwest: U Colorado (= -), Iowa (+), Loyola (+), NW(-), Rush (+), U of Chicago (-), Indiana (+), U Michigan (= -), Mayo (-), U Minnesota (+), Wash U (-), U Nebraska (+), Case Western (+), Ohio State (+), MCW (+), and U Wisconsin (+)
East: Emory (-), Beth Israel Deaconess (-), UNC (-), Wake Forest (+), Darmouth (= -), NYU (-), Thomas Jefferson (+), U Penn (-), Vanderbilt (-)
West: UCSD (-), Legacy Emmanuel (+), U Utah (+), U Wash (-)
South: UT Southwestern (-)

You should be fine. Couple of random programs... like why Legacy Emmanual? I can think of other good community programs you may be competitive for like Scripps Green or CPMC in CA. or Virginia Mason in WA. All three are "better" than Legacy. You could have your try at OHSU (= -). Why not dump BID and add BU (= +). Dump NYU and add Mt Sinai (= -).

Thanks for your advice! Honestly my random programs were just coming from residents at my school who were suggesting programs. I wasn't quite sure how to come up with places outside of the Midwest so I kind of just went with some of the places they liked on their own interview trail. Thanks again! I will likely take your suggestions so I really appreciate it.

 

[Beacopp665]

I know I'm new here, but I have often come here over the years for advice and found it very worth my time so just wanted to see y'alls thoughts. Any input is appreciated

Med school: Unranked in MD school in Midwest
Step 1: 260
Step 2: Taking soon
Grades: H in IM, Peds, Psych, OB/Gyn. HP in Surg, Family
AOA: Maybe - I have a shot, but results won't come in until after we send apps so treating myself as though I don't have it
Good LORs, decent ECs, biggest issue is that I don't really have any research to speak of. This and coming from an unranked school are my biggest problems. I am attaching programs I am interested in, no particular order - I realize there are quite a few reaches but just want to see what you all think

Hopkins
Northwestern
Rush
U Chicago
Loyola
U Iowa
U Kansas
BID
Brigham
MGH
U Michigan
Wash U
Columbia
Cornell
NYU
Wake Forest
UNC
Duke
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic
U Penn
UTSW
Baylor COM
From Texas originally so applying in Texas pretty broadly too

 

[gutonc]

Sure.

 

[235009]

I know I'm here, but I have often come here over the years for advice and found it very worth my time so just wanted to see y'alls thoughts. Any input is appreciated

Med school: Unranked in MD school in Midwest
Step 1: 260
Step 2: Taking soon
Grades: H in IM, Peds, Psych, OB/Gyn. HP in Surg, Family
AOA: Maybe - I have a shot, but results won't come in until after we send apps so treating myself as though I don't have it
Good LORs, decent ECs, biggest issue is that I don't really have any research to speak of. This and coming from an unranked school are my biggest problems. I am attaching programs I am interested in, no particular order - I realize there are quite a few reaches but just want to see what you all think

Hopkins
Northwestern
Rush
U Chicago
Loyola
U Iowa
U Kansas
BID
Brigham
MGH
U Michigan
Wash U
Columbia
Cornell
NYU
Wake Forest
UNC
Duke
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic
U Penn
UTSW
Baylor COM
From Texas originally so applying in Texas pretty broadly too

I always find these lists so puzzling! Why on earth do you have U Kansas and U Iowa there but at the same time you're applying to Hopkins, Penn, and the Harvard programs but have completely disregarded UMD, BU, Tufts, Jefferson. And where's Mt. Sinai and Monte? Yet you have Cleveland clinic. Are you just looking for names that will impress your grandmother and don't actually have an interest in the northeast?

Your complete lack of research might be an issue at the elite programs. You have a good enough mix of programs there that you'll definitely match (especially if you have additional texas programs) but you may want to think a little more about what you want so you're not just randomly carpet-bombing.

 

[Beacopp665]

I always find these lists so puzzling! Why on earth do you have U Kansas and U Iowa there but at the same time you're applying to Hopkins, Penn, and the Harvard programs but have completely disregarded UMD, BU, Tufts, Jefferson. And where's Mt. Sinai and Monte? Yet you have Cleveland clinic. Are you just looking for names that will impress your grandmother and don't actually have an interest in the northeast?

Your complete lack of research might be an issue at the elite programs. You have a good enough mix of programs there that you'll definitely match (especially if you have additional texas programs) but you may want to think a little more about what you want so you're not just randomly carpet-bombing.

Fair enough, my list does need some explaining. The random midwest programs (Iowa and Kansas) are because though I know they aren't elite I am familiar with them and we have sent people there in the past. I disregarded the other places in Boston, Philly, and many New York programs because I do prefer the midwest and the South, so if I were to move to those other cities, I wouldn't want to go for Tufts or BU (nothing against those places). I am applying to Mt Sinai, I forgot to add it on the list. My SO is a year younger than me so I excluded any places that only have one major academic program in the area so she wouldn't be pigeonholed to applying to one place and not having other options around in those cities. That's why I don't plan on going to Emory, U Washington, UCSF, Mayo, etc

I suppose the question I am really asking is if I am competitive for the top tier schools I named, without research or coming from a "name brand" med school.

 

[IMPD]

Fair enough, my list does need some explaining. The random midwest programs (Iowa and Kansas) are because though I know they aren't elite I am familiar with them and we have sent people there in the past. I disregarded the other places in Boston, Philly, and many New York programs because I do prefer the midwest and the South, so if I were to move to those other cities, I wouldn't want to go for Tufts or BU (nothing against those places). I am applying to Mt Sinai, I forgot to add it on the list. My SO is a year younger than me so I excluded any places that only have one major academic program in the area so she wouldn't be pigeonholed to applying to one place and not having other options around in those cities. That's why I don't plan on going to Emory, U Washington, UCSF, Mayo, etc

I suppose the question I am really asking is if I am competitive for the top tier schools I named, without research or coming from a "name brand" med school.

Proof is in the pudding. Apply. As you get interviews, you'll know how competitive you are. Many interviews = competitive, few interviews = not so much.

I recommend that people applying to top tier schools also have 3-5 mid tiers that they would consider if they end up with fewer than (7-9) top tier interviews. If you get 12+ top tier interviews, you are going to match at one of them.

 

[reslife]

wow, this is me; similar scores, grades and regional preference (will likely add more community programs than you have tho)
major difference being that instead of attending a Midwest md school, I attend a Midwest DO school.
WAMC?

any takers?

 

[johndoe3344]

any takers?

Unfortunately, being a DO puts you out of the running for many of the stronger university programs in the area. Your approach should be to look at the roster of a program you're interested in and see if historically they take DO's.

 

[kdhmed]

any takers?

I'll try and help you out with the Midwest/East programs, although I am more familiar with East.

Midwest: U Colorado(?), Iowa(?), Loyola (Unlikely), NW (no), Rush (no), U of Chicago (no), Indiana(?), U Michigan(?), Mayo(?), U Minnesota (?), Wash U (no), U Nebraska (?), Case Western (no), Ohio State(maybe-unlikely), MCW(?), and U Wisconsin(?)
East: Emory(no), Beth Israel Deaconess(no), UNC(no), Wake Forest(maybe), Darmouth(maybe-unlikely), NYU(no), Thomas Jefferson(unlikely), U Penn(no), Vanderbilt(no)

Midwest to add: UIC, CCF, Cincinatti, the Advocate programs, UC Northshore
East to add: Carolinas, MUSC, Gtown, VCU, UF, USF Tampa, Albert Einstein - Philly, Temple, Drexel, Christiana Care, St. Elizabeths (boston), UMass, UPMC Mercy ans Shadyside, Rutgers RWJ, UMDNJ, Abington Memorial

 

[Beetles]

1234567

 

[IMPD]

Step 1: 190 (briefly mentioning in personal statement, loss of close family member)
Step 2: Preparing for
Med School: Top 15
Clerkship Grades: Honors in Sub-I; All Pass on 3rd year Clerkships
AOA: No
Extracurriculars/Research: Very strong. Took two years off during medical school to do a prestigious research fellowship in the United Kingdom. 2 first author publications.

I want to stay in the Midwest and would like to stay at an academic program. This may be too hopeful, however I am wondering if the honors in my Sub-I and a (hopefully) good Step 2 score might help. I am also wondering if I should take my time taking Step II this year and apply for the Match next year with some IM away rotations. I am applying broadly. For programs where I am below the cutoff (most!), I am considering emailing the PD to ask if I can have the opportunity to update them later in the season with my Step 2 to be considered for an interview. I would appreciate any and all advice, I'm concerned!

Crush Step 2, apply this year. Agree with emailing the PD.

 

[disorder]

Step 1: 190 (briefly mentioning in personal statement, loss of close family member)
Step 2: Preparing for
Med School: Top 15
Clerkship Grades: Honors in Sub-I; All Pass on 3rd year Clerkships
AOA: No
Extracurriculars/Research: Very strong. Took two years off during medical school to do a prestigious research fellowship in the United Kingdom. 2 first author publications.

I want to stay in the Midwest and would like to stay at an academic program. This may be too hopeful, however I am wondering if the honors in my Sub-I and a (hopefully) good Step 2 score might help. I am also wondering if I should take my time taking Step II this year and apply for the Match next year with some IM away rotations. I am applying broadly. For programs where I am below the cutoff (most!), I am considering emailing the PD to ask if I can have the opportunity to update them later in the season with my Step 2 to be considered for an interview. I would appreciate any and all advice, I'm concerned!

Take Step 2 ASAP.

 

[beakermuppet]

Hi everyone. Here to talk shop. Thank you to GutOnc and the few who are still giving a second of their time to speak common sense, practical wisdom (Greek word is "Phronesis"), and wit into this otherwise generally neurotic and anxious charade.

I'm not here to ask if I will match in general. I would like to get some of people's wisdom and experience here about a few specific programs. See below.

Good ole AMG here ('Mericuh), MD program, Midwest school. I think we're ranked in the 60's? Not high, to my knowledge.

Step 1: 224
Step 2: 241
Figured out how to study more disciplined and more maturely, hoping the almost 20 pt. jump from Step 1 → 2 helps visibly strengthen my app.

Grades: our school is pass/fail. MS1/MS2 grades were closely above and below middle. My overall Clerkship grades were mid to high B's. 75% percentile in Medicine, (but I don't think it gets reported if not over 80th). Likely ranked in middle of class.

Accepted for an away Sub-I at a top 10'er on the east coast.

Research: diverse listing from medical school and undergrad- Schizophrenia, Psychology, Ethics, even 2 Surgery cases. Med School: First author peer reviewed pub in well known American Journal of ___, 2 Poster presentations at national conferences, 3 not-yet-published research projects (also listed in ERAS under research experiences). 1 submitted to NEJM with several clinical faculty but we'll see. At least it's listed on ERAS for now. 2 Q.I. projects as well, I know some medicine nerds love that stuff.

Awards/Honors: Invited by the faculty to teach the classes behind me in Biennium 1 courses. Invited to sit on hospital ethics committee.

LOR: Not sure how these matter too much... Mine will be pretty good from my conversations with them. 1 from Dept., 1 good clinical, 1 from clinical mentor and co-publisher (that one will be really personal, probably the most useful).

Extra Curric's: very well rounded. Simultaneously doing an M.A. program during Medical school (no years off- not that I recommend that, but I am still alive), active in several nationally known medical societies. Hoping those will help turn some heads.

Here's my working list. What I'm more interested in is any experience with East coast and Virginia? I reached out to a few SDN'ers from previous years but haven't heard back (probably swamped in their residency/fellowships at this point). Reached out to an alumnus we have there right now but haven't heard back yet. Primarily interested in UVA, after that, eastward schools.

Do any of you reading this have some advice or interviewing-experience from UVA? More interested in hearing from the well-rounded applicants who got some pleasant interview surprises rather than the regular killer score crowd. Sorry, but I am a lowly mortal human.

Reaches List?

Boston U
Yale NHMC
U Maryland
JH-Bayview
Duke
UNC
Wake
UVA
VCU
Vanderbilt
MUSC

(mid west more of my safety zone list although Case is up there in competitiveness)

Ohio State
Case Western
U Cincinnati
Wright State
UK
U Louisville
Indiana U
Iowa
St Louis U
Wash U in St. Louis
UPMC

Possibly throw some out to Colorado, U Utah, for adventure's sake.

Thanks for your time. And wit!!!

 

[lymphohystiocytosis]

Alright, my application isn't as complete as some of you other guys, but I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Med school: NOT top 25 US allo in the midwest
Step 1: 255
Step 2: Taking soon
Grades: H in IM, Peds, Psych, Family. HP in Surg, Neuro, ObGyn
AOA: Maybe? Not sure, I'm probably a borderline candidate. We only do senior and the results aren't in yet, so wish me luck.
Letters: 2 good ones from junior attendings, one from a fellowship director.
Research: A lot of sweat and effort with little to show for it. Some abstracts published, poster presentation at a national conference, working on a manuscript.

I'll attach a list of programs I'm interested in. I'm sure someone will complain about how coast-centric it is, but it's a mixture of places I want to live for personal reasons (read: my significant other told me she'd be ok living there and would be able to get a job). In general, it's pretty easy to pick reach schools because everybody knows what they are. But I'm hoping for some input in picking safeties. For example, I know in Chicago I'll be applying to the University of Chicago and Northwestern. But for safety programs in the region, how on earth do I decide between UIC, Rush, and Loyola? Do I have to apply to each and see how I feel about each? The travel costs will add up quickly. Or in North Carolina, I know UNC and Duke are awesome programs. But is my best second line option there Wake Forest? I've heard it's a sleeper program, with less of a reputation but still good training, but it's kind of far from the more exciting parts of the state.

University of Michigan
MGH
BIDMC
Tufts
Brigham
Boston Medical Center
Georgetown
George Washington
Hopkins
University of Chicago
Northwestern
Loyola
UIC
Rush
UNC
Duke
Wake Forest
Montefiore
Jacobi
Beth Israel NY
Columbia
Mount Sinai (Icahn SOM)
Cornell
NYU
UPenn
Thomas Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
University of Washington
OHSU
UCSF
Stanford

Update to this: got the H in my medicine subi. Did NOT get AOA, pretty gutted about it. How badly will my non-AOA status hurt me? I'm probably still to 20-25%, I just missed the AOA cutoff.

 

[235009]

Hi everyone. Here to talk shop. Thank you to GutOnc and the few who are still giving a second of their time to speak common sense, practical wisdom (Greek word is "Phronesis"), and wit into this otherwise generally neurotic and anxious charade.

I'm not here to ask if I will match in general. I would like to get some of people's wisdom and experience here about a few specific programs. See below.

Good ole AMG here ('Mericuh), MD program, Midwest school. I think we're ranked in the 60's? Not high, to my knowledge.

Step 1: 224
Step 2: 241
Figured out how to study more disciplined and more maturely, hoping the almost 20 pt. jump from Step 1 → 2 helps visibly strengthen my app.

Grades: our school is pass/fail. MS1/MS2 grades were closely above and below middle. My overall Clerkship grades were mid to high B's. 75% percentile in Medicine, (but I don't think it gets reported if not over 80th). Likely ranked in middle of class.

Accepted for an away Sub-I at a top 10'er on the east coast.

Research: diverse listing from medical school and undergrad- Schizophrenia, Psychology, Ethics, even 2 Surgery cases. Med School: First author peer reviewed pub in well known American Journal of ___, 2 Poster presentations at national conferences, 3 not-yet-published research projects (also listed in ERAS under research experiences). 1 submitted to NEJM with several clinical faculty but we'll see. At least it's listed on ERAS for now. 2 Q.I. projects as well, I know some medicine nerds love that stuff.

Awards/Honors: Invited by the faculty to teach the classes behind me in Biennium 1 courses. Invited to sit on hospital ethics committee.

LOR: Not sure how these matter too much... Mine will be pretty good from my conversations with them. 1 from Dept., 1 good clinical, 1 from clinical mentor and co-publisher (that one will be really personal, probably the most useful).

Extra Curric's: very well rounded. Simultaneously doing an M.A. program during Medical school (no years off- not that I recommend that, but I am still alive), active in several nationally known medical societies. Hoping those will help turn some heads.

Here's my working list. What I'm more interested in is any experience with East coast and Virginia? I reached out to a few SDN'ers from previous years but haven't heard back (probably swamped in their residency/fellowships at this point). Reached out to an alumnus we have there right now but haven't heard back yet. Primarily interested in UVA, after that, eastward schools.

Do any of you reading this have some advice or interviewing-experience from UVA? More interested in hearing from the well-rounded applicants who got some pleasant interview surprises rather than the regular killer score crowd. Sorry, but I am a lowly mortal human.

Reaches List?

Boston U
Yale NHMC
U Maryland
JH-Bayview
Duke
UNC
Wake
UVA
VCU
Vanderbilt
MUSC

(mid west more of my safety zone list although Case is up there in competitiveness)

Ohio State
Case Western
U Cincinnati
Wright State
UK
U Louisville
Indiana U
Iowa
St Louis U
Wash U in St. Louis
UPMC

Possibly throw some out to Colorado, U Utah, for adventure's sake.

Thanks for your time. And wit!!!

Solid ECs. Assuming you got a B in medicine (wasn't terribly clear) I would say your academic record is average across the board. Your step 2 score though psychologically more appealing is only a few points above avg. I can't speak for the Midwest programs but if you want a shot at the northeast i'd recommend expanding that list a bit like adding places in the Tufts/Brown/Dartmouth category. You certainly have enough as it is for a strong match.

 

[chahn85]

Coming from top 5 med school.
Step 1/2: 237/249
3rd year: Only honored Neurology, passed the rest (H/P/F system. 20% get H)
4th year so far: Honored Medicine Sub-I, Honored GI
No stellar research/extracurricular activities.

I am really hoping for UCLA or Stanford. Would I have a chance of getting in, or at least being invited for interviews?

 

[brujerizmo]

ucla has a step 1 cut off of 240

 

[johndoe3344]

Reaches List?

Boston U
Yale NHMC
U Maryland
JH-Bayview
Duke
UNC
Wake
UVA
VCU
Vanderbilt
MUSC

(mid west more of my safety zone list although Case is up there in competitiveness)

Ohio State
Case Western
U Cincinnati
Wright State
UK
U Louisville
Indiana U
Iowa
St Louis U
Wash U in St. Louis
UPMC

Possibly throw some out to Colorado, U Utah, for adventure's sake.

Thanks for your time. And wit!!!

Your ECs and pubs are pretty decent from what I can tell. Grades, med school and step 1/2 are all average. Unfortunately doing an away at a top x program won't help you that much. Almost anyone can get accepted for an away at any program, depending on how early you apply, and how the stars are aligned. Just because you got accepted for an away at a top x program doesn't mean you are competitive to get interviews at top x tiered programs.

Boston U =
Yale NHMC -
U Maryland =
JH-Bayview -/=
Duke -
UNC -
Wake +
UVA -/=
VCU +
Vanderbilt -
MUSC +

Ohio State +
Case Western =
U Cincinnati +
Wright State +
UK +
U Louisville +
Indiana U +
Iowa =
St Louis U +
Wash U in St. Louis -
UPMC -

 

[johndoe3344]

Update to this: got the H in my medicine subi. Did NOT get AOA, pretty gutted about it. How badly will my non-AOA status hurt me? I'm probably still to 20-25%, I just missed the AOA cutoff.

Your application is still strong, but without AOA coming from a non-top 25 med school, I think it would exclude you from most of the top 10. Regardless, you have nothing to lose from applying anyways. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

 

[beakermuppet]

Solid ECs. Assuming you got a B in medicine (wasn't terribly clear) I would say your academic record is average across the board. Your step 2 score though psychologically more appealing is only a few points above avg. I can't speak for the Midwest programs but if you want a shot at the northeast i'd recommend expanding that list a bit like adding places in the Tufts/Brown/Dartmouth category. You certainly have enough as it is for a strong match.

Thanks MT for taking a sec to respond. Yeah high B in IM and Surgery, I think by a fraction of percent (89.xx%). Otherwise yeah pretty mid range B's as you surmised. Wondering if the EC's and well-roundedness picture can open some doors where otherwise mere mortals like myself might get discouraged. However- not sure about shot at UVA in terms of competitiveness and ranking compared to the obviously higher ups. Any idea / experience with UVA by chance?

 

[beakermuppet]

Your ECs and pubs are pretty decent from what I can tell. Grades, med school and step 1/2 are all average. Unfortunately doing an away at a top x program won't help you that much. Almost anyone can get accepted for an away at any program, depending on how early you apply, and how the stars are aligned. Just because you got accepted for an away at a top x program doesn't mean you are competitive to get interviews at top x tiered programs.

Boston U =
Yale NHMC -
U Maryland =
JH-Bayview -/=
Duke -
UNC -
Wake +
UVA -/=
VCU +
Vanderbilt -
MUSC +

Ohio State +
Case Western =
U Cincinnati +
Wright State +
UK +
U Louisville +
Indiana U +
Iowa =
St Louis U +
Wash U in St. Louis -
UPMC -

JD thanks for the guesstimates. By the "=" are you meaning a 'double-negative' or 'equivalent/avg.' shot. (Trying to get a feel for UVA more specifically). Any reason for this perception of UVA? I am searching back through previous IM Match threads last night and today for UVA, although things still seem to fluctuate from year to year. In part, has to do with what pool of applicants applies there each cycle I suppose.

I didn't expect a sub-I at a big name to count for much in and of itself, it won't even be listed on ERAS at the time of 9-15 (or ever for that matter- does anyone attempt to list these on eras?) however a letter of recommendation from that IM program might count for something, perhaps? Ultimately we'll see what happens, as I'm applying regardless to this list and a few more as suggested above. The general gestalt from the wiser ones here being, 'just apply', so that's what I'll do and not worry about it! Appreciate your time, thanks.

 

[johndoe3344]

JD thanks for the guesstimates. By the "=" are you meaning a 'double-negative' or 'equivalent/avg.' shot. (Trying to get a feel for UVA more specifically). Any reason for this perception of UVA? I am searching back through previous IM Match threads last night and today for UVA, although things still seem to fluctuate from year to year. In part, has to do with what pool of applicants applies there each cycle I suppose.

I didn't expect a sub-I at a big name to count for much in and of itself, it won't even be listed on ERAS at the time of 9-15 (or ever for that matter- does anyone attempt to list these on eras?) however a letter of recommendation from that IM program might count for something, perhaps? Ultimately we'll see what happens, as I'm applying regardless to this list and a few more as suggested above. The general gestalt from the wiser ones here being, 'just apply', so that's what I'll do and not worry about it! Appreciate your time, thanks.

As an AMG, a great letter of rec from a big name place will help you about as much as a great letter of rec from your own institution, unless you happen to get a letter from someone that the PD/APD personally know, or someone that is truly very famous in their field. In either case, this doesn't happen often. What is more likely, though, is that you'll get an average or lukewarm letter from that faculty member, which may actually come back to hurt you. IMO, the only time that you should do an away as an AMG is if you actually, really, want to go to a particular institution (and it is a slight reach for you), and if you work your ass off, you'll impress the PD/APD/faculty at *that* particular institution. Maybe the other posters have different opinions about this, though.

"+" ~ you should be invited by most of these
"=" ~ you should be invited by more than half of these
"-" ~ i'd be surprised if you got more than 1-2 invites by these

UVA is somewhat competitive. Not the most competitive program you have on there, but it's a pretty solid bottom top tier/top mid tier program. You have nothing to lose. Just apply.

 

[JOULEZ]

My story: I'm an AMG at a SE med school. On HemOnc now and I absolutely love it. Received AOA (woohooo!) and Step 2 went well- my Clerkship Director, with his encouraging hope and confidence in me, insists I apply to many more Reach schools than I had anticipated. I am not nearly as knowledgable about top tiers and schools, thus seeking advice on this. Thanks in advance for any input/ wisdom, though I get that the sentiment is "just apply".

Step 1: 254
Step 2 CK/ CS: 266/ CS score not back
School: Top 100 (?) in SE
Grades in Clerkship: H all except Family, H in IM SubI
AOA: Yes
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 published first author, 2 posters at natl conferences, a few power points / Strong ECs / Strong LORs in terms of content- not sure about titles
Overview of where you want to end up: I like the SE and its gorgeous weather, but also like the idea change of scenery/society. I added Reach schools that were known to have great HemOnc fellowships thinking "Why not?!" (The obvious answer being- because few/noone from your school has gotten in there for IM) (& your research is not as strong as these places would like) (& other unknown incompetencies). Lastly, I am not thrilled about the cold, but will bundle myself in layers if I get into any of the Reaches listed. (Assuming I like them).

REACH
1. John Hopkins-- Baltimore, MD
2. John Hopkins @ Bayview-- Baltimore, MD
3. Mass Gen-- Boston, MA
4. Brigham and Women's Hospital Program-- Boston, MA
5. Stanford-- Stanford, CA
6. UCSD-- San Diego, CA
7. UCLA-- Los Angeles, CA
8. Duke-- Durham, NC
9. Vanderbilt-- Nashville, TN

MAYBE A GOOD CHANCE?
1. UAB-- Birmingham, AL
2. Emory-- Atlanta, GA
3. Tulane-- New Orleans, LA
4. UNC-- Chapel Hill, NC
5. Wake Forest-- Winston-Salem, NC
6. UTSW-- Austin, TX
7. UTSW-- Dallas, TX
8. Baylor-- Dallas, TX
9. UT Health-- Houston, TX
10. Virginia Commonwealth-- Richmond, VA
11. UVA-- Charlottesville, VA
12. Georgetown-- DC
13. Georgetown- Washington Hospital-- DC
14. George Washington-- DC
15. Univ of Maryland-- Baltimore, MD

SAFER?
1. UF-- Gainesville, FL
2. UF Jax- Jacksonville, FL
3. Mayo-- Jacksonville, FL
4. USF-- Tampa, FL
5. UTenn-- Nashville, TN
6. Medical University of SC-- Charleston, SC
7. Carolinas-- Charlotte, NC

 

[disorder]

My story: I'm an AMG at a SE med school. On HemOnc now and I absolutely love it. Received AOA (woohooo!) and Step 2 went well- my Clerkship Director, with his encouraging hope and confidence in me, insists I apply to many more Reach schools than I had anticipated. I am not nearly as knowledgable about top tiers and schools, thus seeking advice on this. Thanks in advance for any input/ wisdom, though I get that the sentiment is "just apply".

Step 1: 254
Step 2 CK/ CS: 266/ CS score not back
School: Top 100 (?) in SE
Grades in Clerkship: H all except Family, H in IM SubI
AOA: Yes
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 published first author, 2 posters at natl conferences, a few power points / Strong ECs / Strong LORs in terms of content- not sure about titles
Overview of where you want to end up: I like the SE and its gorgeous weather, but also like the idea change of scenery/society. I added Reach schools that were known to have great HemOnc fellowships thinking "Why not?!" (The obvious answer being- because few/noone from your school has gotten in there for IM) (& your research is not as strong as these places would like) (& other unknown incompetencies). Lastly, I am not thrilled about the cold, but will bundle myself in layers if I get into any of the Reaches listed. (Assuming I like them).

REACH
1. John Hopkins-- Baltimore, MD
2. John Hopkins @ Bayview-- Baltimore, MD
3. Mass Gen-- Boston, MA
4. Brigham and Women's Hospital Program-- Boston, MA
5. Stanford-- Stanford, CA
6. UCSD-- San Diego, CA
7. UCLA-- Los Angeles, CA
8. Duke-- Durham, NC
9. Vanderbilt-- Nashville, TN

MAYBE A GOOD CHANCE?
1. UAB-- Birmingham, AL
2. Emory-- Atlanta, GA
3. Tulane-- New Orleans, LA
4. UNC-- Chapel Hill, NC
5. Wake Forest-- Winston-Salem, NC
6. UTSW-- Austin, TX
7. UTSW-- Dallas, TX
8. Baylor-- Dallas, TX
9. UT Health-- Houston, TX
10. Virginia Commonwealth-- Richmond, VA
11. UVA-- Charlottesville, VA
12. Georgetown-- DC
13. Georgetown- Washington Hospital-- DC
14. George Washington-- DC
15. Univ of Maryland-- Baltimore, MD

SAFER?
1. UF-- Gainesville, FL
2. UF Jax- Jacksonville, FL
3. Mayo-- Jacksonville, FL
4. USF-- Tampa, FL
5. UTenn-- Nashville, TN
6. Medical University of SC-- Charleston, SC
7. Carolinas-- Charlotte, NC

You'll get invites from most, if not, all places. The only thing "hurting" you is pedigree.

BTW your list looks odd. You're missing some great programs like UW and UCSF.