Official 2013-2014 - What are my chances thread?

[jstdvyne24]

Hello everyone,

I applied to over 80 psych programs in late Sep (waited on CK score before submitting), but have only gotten 4 interviews thus far. I have heard that the best chances for matching occur when a candidate has 10+ interviews and thus can rank at least 10 programs...initially, interviews were coming in like everyday but lately it seems I have reached a plateau....should I consider sending out back up applications at this point?

Stats
Step 1: 228
Step 2: 222 (I was really upset about this, but I guess it could have been worse :/)
CK: pass; all steps passed on 1st attempt
US-FMG (top 4 carib med school)
Class rank: 83% avg yet I am in the bottom quartile...I guess we were all smart? I am considering having them check to see if this is correct
1 publication, Honors in all core clerkships
Decent extracurricular activities....WHERE ARE MY INTERVIEWS???

Thanks in advance for any tips, dearest reader.

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[Firewood]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my question. I was actually referring to 'ranked to match' emails, which I thought were different than 'we like you' emails, as I thought the former actually meant that the program was going to put you at the top of their list (i.e. if they had 6 positions total, then you would be ranked 1-6). I presumed 'ranked to match' mean that you were in their top positions, not just somewhere on their rank list. So I was curious to know how often if was that programs did that, as I feel that 'ranked to match' carries a lot more weight than 'we like you' (presuming that I'm interpreting the meaning of 'ranked to match' correctly).

But yes, you are very correct that applicants should not put too much stock into those 'we like you' emails. We even got some warning emails from ERAS telling us not to be swayed by any emails from PD telling us that they liked us. I don't know why ERAS felt the need to warn applicants... but I suppose this may have caused some kind of issue with applicants in the past having unfulfilled expectations.

From my perspective, your basically asking an unanswerable question. No one but the person who sends the e-mail knows what "ranked to match" means; there's no conventions or coded statements. I never actually got the phrase "ranked to match", but heard things like "top-ranked" and "favorite" from a few programs, but again, there's no way to infer a rank # out of this process. While I believe a program could volunteer how exactly they ranked you, I can't see a reason for them to do so.

As for the timing of such e-mails, they would be sent in Jan or Feb when rank ordering is open.

Anyway, there'll be plenty of time to stress over such things later. Right now you should enjoy being wined and dined and getting a feel for the programs you like on interview day! Best of luck on the interview trail!

 

[Firewood]

From my perspective, your basically asking an unanswerable question. No one but the person who sends the e-mail knows what "ranked to match" means; there's no conventions or coded statements. I never actually got the phrase "ranked to match", but heard things like "top-ranked" and "favorite" from a few programs, but again, there's no way to infer a rank # out of this process. While I believe a program could volunteer how exactly they ranked you, I can't see a reason for them to do so.

As for the timing of such e-mails, they would be sent in Jan or Feb when rank ordering is open.

Anyway, there'll be plenty of time to stress over such things later. Right now you should enjoy being wined and dined and getting a feel for the programs you like on interview day! Best of luck on the interview trail!

I think I made this less than clear. I got some sort of recruitment letter from half the programs I interviewed at. They were all worded differently, and they never implied any guarrantees. I think psych especially seldom uses the term "ranked to match" and there are examples from years past where recipients of such statements did not in fact match at the program that supposedly ranked them "to match."

Bottom line: How common is a "ranked to match" letter? Rare in my limited experience. How common is a recruitment letter? Depends on the program and applicant.

 

[psychogenic]

Did you apply UCLA-SFV, UCSF-Fresno, Kern, USC, Loma Linda, and Visalia? Those are the top bets that come to mind off the top of my head.

Yep, I applied to all of these, but I've only gotten an interview invite from one. I assumed that I would not be anyone's first draft pick, but I'm starting to get a little worried now.

 

[Lokhtar]

(APPLYING NEXT YEAR)

US-MD
Step 1: ~210
Honors: Psych, Family Medicine. High Pass: Medicine. Haven't taken the rest yet.

I want to get into an academic hospital. I am not looking for the top ten obviously but I want to go to a good program that will prepare me to have a career in a teaching university/hospital (I really want to do a lot of teaching in my career). Any good programs in the midwest I can do? (NOTE: while I prefer the midwest, I am willing to go anywhere in the country if it means it'll give me a better chance in the future in academics). I have a list of about 60 programs but people tell me I don't need to apply to so many..so I'm trying to narrow it down to about 40.

EDIT: Reason I ask now is that I'd like to do a couple of aways at some of those places which are within my ballpark but may be slightly 'reach', so hopefully I can work hard and impress them.

 

[gynosquad]

Hi everyone, so I got an interview! (You may have seen my desperate title earlier). Well it's only one, so for most people's standards I am still desperate. I know that many programs will be wary of taking someone with two attempts because they are afraid I may not pass step 3. I know that my strategy for next year will be to pass step 3 before applying....if I don't match this year. A few questions:
1. Would it be silly or helpful of me to mention that this is my only interview if in fact it still is at the time of my interview next month?
2. What are your thoughts on SOAP? Do many students get a spot during this process?

Thanks so much

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

1. No., I can not think of how that would help.
2. Not sure how many, but why not try.

Good luck, it may only take one and one is a lot more than none.

 

[Nasrudin]

(APPLYING NEXT YEAR)

US-MD
Step 1: ~210
Honors: Psych, Family Medicine. High Pass: Medicine. Haven't taken the rest yet.

I want to get into an academic hospital. I am not looking for the top ten obviously but I want to go to a good program that will prepare me to have a career in a teaching university/hospital (I really want to do a lot of teaching in my career). Any good programs in the midwest I can do? (NOTE: while I prefer the midwest, I am willing to go anywhere in the country if it means it'll give me a better chance in the future in academics). I have a list of about 60 programs but people tell me I don't need to apply to so many..so I'm trying to narrow it down to about 40.

EDIT: Reason I ask now is that I'd like to do a couple of aways at some of those places which are within my ballpark but may be slightly 'reach', so hopefully I can work hard and impress them.

Your geographic focus and also it's flexibility is a tremendous advantage in seeking an academic career. If you finish everything else without any snags, you'll be in fine shape.

Apply wherever the heck you want to. You'll be declining interviews before this time next year.

 

[cooldoc23]

Is it too late to add additional programs? Is it even worth it, since places are already starting interviews and everything? I just realized I missed applying to some FMG friendly programs and now I feel really stupid.

 

[Fenster]

Is it too late to add additional programs? Is it even worth it, since places are already starting interviews and everything? I just realized I missed applying to some FMG friendly programs and now I feel really stupid.

Email those programs with your credentials and ask?

 

[Yousarrian]

Yep, I applied to all of these, but I've only gotten an interview invite from one. I assumed that I would not be anyone's first draft pick, but I'm starting to get a little worried now.

Please consider applying to another 20 or 30 then. Exclude the elite ones. Some places are still sending out invites. Good luck!

 

[PaliStudent]

Step 1: 210 (1st attempt)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 215/Pass (1st attempt)
School: Top 4 Carib (US-IMG)
Class Rank: 50%
Grades in Clerkship:C- in Internal Medicine, B in Psychiatry, The rest rotations are Bs
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars:None
Red Flags: C- in Internal Medicine
Overview of where you want to end up:
I don't care which psychiatry program. I just want to get matched to any.

 

[jd1031]

(Applying next year)
Like Lokhtar, I might do some away rotations at locations that I feel I have a good shot at. Also, I am currently deciding between neurology and psychiatry.

Step 1: USMLE = 238, COMLEX = 619
School: US DO
Class Rank: around top 1/3
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in surgery, High pass in everything else (currently on psych rotation, haven't taken internal med or neuro yet)
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Neuropharmacology research while in med school - published, Neuroscience research as an undergrad, VP of neuropsych club plus more
Overview of where you want to end up:
I want to attend residency somewhere in the western part of the US, preferably California. Arizona is a close second. I'm also really cool with Oregon, Colorado, Washington, and Nevada. If I'm not being too picky, I'll include the northeastern seaboard and Chicago

 

[Armadillos]

Is there any any consensus on whats the best or most typical month to take off for psych interviews if your medschool gives that option?

 

[notdeadyet]

Not really. Some programs have few October interviews, some have few January interviews, so November/December seem to be the safest. December slows down dramatically with the holiday (before and after Christmas), so if I had to choose one month, I'd pick November.

 

[Psychotic]

Is there any any consensus on whats the best or most typical month to take off for psych interviews if your medschool gives that option?

If I only had one month off, I would say November.

If I had 2 months off, I would say November and January, followed by November and December. December is a funny month - especially this year - the first week began over the Thanksgiving weekend and scheduling travel for an interview in the first part of the week was a problem for air travel, and then there were only 2 and a half weeks left before the XMAS week - in other words, December only had about 2.5 weeks of useful interview time this year.

October is the least useful month for interviews; it seems to be a regional thing - programs in the South are more likely to have some October dates than the rest of the country, of course with exceptions. In any case, if you are taking off blocks of time and need to schedule in October, the second half of the month is better than the first half.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Looks like it might be time to start a WAMC 2014-2015 thread...that's a scary thought

 

[IamPsychiatrist]

.

 

[IamPsychiatrist]

Any ideas?

 

[notdeadyet]

You'll get within a few hours drive of the Pacific if you apply widely enough...

 

[psychgar]

Step 1: 192
Step 2 CK/ CS: Anticipate to take in late July
School: MD, decent state school
Class Rank: Unknown, average M1/M2 grades, a few honors
Grades in Clerkship: Advanced (high pass) in OB/Gyn, Peds; Pass in Surgery
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: PhD in neuroscience with several publications; president of two student orgs
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): Very low step 1 score (taken in 2009 if that matters with score inflation?)
Overview of where you want to end up: A strong research focused program in a big city, preferably warm climate.

I think aside from the step 1 score, I'd be a strong candidate. The plan is to rock step 2, but I'm unsure if that 192 will really ruin things, especially if I reach for top 10 research programs?

 

[Nasrudin]

Step 1: 192
Step 2 CK/ CS: Anticipate to take in late July
School: MD, decent state school
Class Rank: Unknown, average M1/M2 grades, a few honors
Grades in Clerkship: Advanced (high pass) in OB/Gyn, Peds; Pass in Surgery
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: PhD in neuroscience with several publications; president of two student orgs
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): Very low step 1 score (taken in 2009 if that matters with score inflation?)
Overview of where you want to end up: A strong research focused program in a big city, preferably warm climate.

I think aside from the step 1 score, I'd be a strong candidate. The plan is to rock step 2, but I'm unsure if that 192 will really ruin things, especially if I reach for top 10 research programs?

If any type of resume could conquer the obstacle of a low step 1 to get into a research program it's a phd with pubs. If you score well on step 2, get good LOR's, and such you make it easier for yourself to do want you want to do. But I would also apply to some programs that you might think will be supportive of your research goals despite not being well heeled or tops. There some programs like this. That will offer you the elective time to get research done that aren't in the big time. Push hard until the app season. Good luck!

 

[shan564]

I can't speak for other programs, but I think you'd have a good shot at my progra mif you did well on Step 2 to make up for your Step 1 score. I think most people would consider this place to be a "top 10 research program" unless you're interested in psychodynamics.

 

[BeastInfection]

Current M3
Step 1: 219
Step 2 CK/ CS: Haven't taken yet
School: US MD
Class Rank: Unranked (P/F M1-M2)
Grades in Clerkship: Only three so far: H (psych), HP, P. Going to assume (hope) the rest will be HP (one more H if really lucky)
AOA: Not awarded yet, but...no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Pretty uninspiring/weak extracurriculars, no research during med school, 2+ years biochem research UG (no pubs)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): None
Overview of where you want to end up: stealing psych gar's goal here: "A strong research focused program in a big city", prefer NYC, but limited to NYC/Chicago/SF/LA/Seattle

I'm pretty confident that I'll have strong LORs (several attendings have volunteered on their own, good clerkship evals).
I'm also wondering if getting some clinical research under my belt would help much? I'm considering taking a year off to do so for multiple reasons...

Thanks!

 

[shan564]

Research may help, but not massively. You should definitely consider UIC and UW. Seattle isn't really a "big city" in the same vein as Chicago/SF/LA though. NYU is pretty research-focused, but NY generally isn't the best place to be a resident, and NYU has the reputation for being a bit of a workhorse program. If you don't mind a Seattle-sized city, then you should also consider WashU, Miami, Cleveland Clinic, Baylor, Penn, UTSW, Emory, UCSD, Colorado, Indiana, and Hopkins.

 

[prittypistol]

Current M3
Step 1: 219
Step 2 CK/ CS: Haven't taken yet
School: US MD
Class Rank: Unranked (P/F M1-M2)
Grades in Clerkship: Only three so far: H (psych), HP, P. Going to assume (hope) the rest will be HP (one more H if really lucky)
AOA: Not awarded yet, but...no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Pretty uninspiring/weak extracurriculars, no research during med school, 2+ years biochem research UG (no pubs)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): None
Overview of where you want to end up: stealing psych gar's goal here: "A strong research focused program in a big city", prefer NYC, but limited to NYC/Chicago/SF/LA/Seattle

I'm pretty confident that I'll have strong LORs (several attendings have volunteered on their own, good clerkship evals).
I'm also wondering if getting some clinical research under my belt would help much? I'm considering taking a year off to do so for multiple reasons...

Thanks!

Sound pretty similar to what I had before step 2
218 step 1
No red flags
Avg med student 3.something
A in psych and B in others
2 awesome letters, one medium awesome
Then I got 239 on step 2 which may or may not have helped
Extracurricular- a lot of volunteer day events and def psychsign and apa,ama

In summary- all those cities will be fine and you'll def get interviews!!! I did get rejected from UW but heard back from everywhere else I applied (except a few random New York programs- but they have like 15 and I interviewed at 5!)

Good luck you'll be great!

 

[BeastInfection]

Thanks shan and prittypistol, appreciate the advice and will keep those schools in mind.

Shan - why do you say NY isn't great for being a resident?

prittypistol - mind if I ask which NYC programs you heard back from? Can PM (or not respond at all) if prefer

 

[shan564]

Shan - why do you say NY isn't great for being a resident?

I'm not completely certain about this, but my understanding is that New York requires doctors to do a lot of stuff that would otherwise be done by nurses. Also, NYC is expensive, which creates a lot of extra stresses during residency.

 

[vistaril]

I'm not completely certain about this, but my understanding is that New York requires doctors to do a lot of stuff that would otherwise be done by nurses. Also, NYC is expensive, which creates a lot of extra stresses during residency.

how many nyc hospitals have you worked at? I've never worked at one, but I know several residents(in different areas) who have, and not once have they ever done a nursing task. The img/carrib med student factory mill hospitals are a good but different than many others in nyc. Perhaps your 'understanding' is not very much.

 

[happygilmore]

Interviews...

So if we only can interview in November and December would that be a disadvantage.

My school limits the time off for interviews and I may not be able to get anytime in January. In this case, should I rather chose November/January or November/December?

 

[Nasrudin]

Interviews...

So if we only can interview in November and December would that be a disadvantage.

My school limits the time off for interviews and I may not be able to get anytime in January. In this case, should I rather chose November/January or November/December?

Tough call. I had my top 2 schools this month. I didn't get the interviews until later. Idk what to say. Many people were done or could've been by December I suppose. But as other elsewhere have said December is significantly shortened by the holidays. Based on that if I had to choose I'd go with November/January. But that's a big guess. Maybe it depends on how attractive you are as an applicant.

 

[Psychotic]

Tough call. I had my top 2 schools this month. I didn't get the interviews until later. Idk what to say. Many people were done or could've been by December I suppose. But as other elsewhere have said December is significantly shortened by the holidays. Based on that if I had to choose I'd go with November/January. But that's a big guess. Maybe it depends on how attractive you are as an applicant.

I agree that the perfect set-up for someone who can only take off 2 months might be Nov/Jan. The problem with January, this winter especially, is that there have been more travel disruptions due to bad weather, especially in the east. November was my biggest month, with 6 interviews. I only got 3 scheduled in December, and I had to do 3 more in January during a light elective.

And the single most important month for interviews is November.

December ended up being kind of a waste of a vacation month for me, with respect to interviews at least. Because of the late Thanksgiving, there were only 3 interview weeks in December this year.

 

[Nasrudin]

I agree that the perfect set-up for someone who can only take off 2 months might be Nov/Jan. The problem with January, this winter especially, is that there have been more travel disruptions due to bad weather, especially in the east. November was my biggest month, with 6 interviews. I only got 3 scheduled in December, and I had to do 3 more in January during a light elective.

And the single most important month for interviews is November.

December ended up being kind of a waste of a vacation month for me, with respect to interviews at least. Because of the late Thanksgiving, there were only 3 interview weeks in December this year.

Good point about the weather. I've been so grateful to have gotten mine done by being lucky around the storms. Could've been otherwise. It's definitely hard with serious rotations. I'm AI medicine now and my attending didn't want to hear it. Every day not traveling/interviewing I've been working long days.

So to f/u psychotics point: if you have the option schedule you're best interviews earlier. I could see having this flexibility if you're in the upper eschelon of the applicant pool. For those that aren't though another sidebar is that you should try to hustle an interview if they don't offer you one. I did this at a few of my favorite places and it worked. Well...I hope it works for real, let's say, come match time.

 

[rkaz]

I think it also helped me to submit my apps early ( submitted the day it opened up). As such, I was offered many November dates as they were still open when my app was reviewed. (Of course this doesn't always work as I continued to get interview offers through late November, for January interviews). So having November off was great, and having chill attendings who were cool with me taking off multiple days to interview in Dec and Jan without penalty really helped. I worked over Christmas break to make up days off for Dec interviews, but my January attending was very empathetic and told me I didn't need to make up anything, which was nice. For those in 3rd year, I'd suggest asking 4th year students about suggested rotations for interview season, as other 4th year students can point you to rotations that will be flexible for interviews.

I left my remaining few weeks off for May, to ensure that I graduate on time, as I wasn't sure if I'd have to make up days for interviews or other unforseen circumstances. Finishing rotations a few days before graduation seemed like too much of a risk, so I left a few weeks cushion. (My school gives comparatively less vacation time than other medical schools.) Now that interview season is ending, and I've successfully navigated it, I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I just have to get through 3.5 more months of rotations (2 intensive months and 1.5 easy months) and one more school administered exam and then I'm done.

I find it really unfortunate when I read the Eras forum and see that some students are at risk of not graduating on time and being pulled out of the match because they didn't communicate about days off to interview with their attendings. Then they failed rotations. I am thankful that I communicated with 4th years last year, and communicated with attendings prior to rotations about the interview situation, as it has made my life so much easier right now.

I am completing interview season with 16 interviews, all the while getting very positive comments from my attendings and not being docked for a single day off. My point is not to sound self congratulatory in any way, but simply to point out to 3rd years that you can really minimize the stress of interview season by appropriate planning ahead.

 

[Capote25]

What are my chances (specifically as DO student who has not taken the USMLE) in matching in the Allopathic match? Any advice would be much appreciated as I spend a lot of time wracked with self-doubt and anxiety about going unmatched.

Step 1: COMLEX 1 only - 437 **passed on 1st attempt.
Step 2 CK/ CS: COMLEX 2 - (not yet taken, will be taking it in July)
School: US - Osteopathic School (one of the better known ones)
Class Rank: no idea but I'm assuming in the bottom half (although my GPA is not terrible)
Grades in Clerkship: all high pass except *honors in Family Med
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: (this is where I shine!)
- executive board of IM Club, - UNICEF, - Habitat for Humanity, - Spanish Club,
- Research at UC Davis Radiation/Oncology department,
- tons of clinical work experience in clinics and mental health care facilities,
- honors (Volunteer Grant Award to work at a clinic in Peru, med school Service Scholarship)
Red Flags: failed 2 classes my first quarter of first year - (since then all my grades have been mostly Bs and As - my GPA is a 3.0)
Overview of where you want to end up: I would like to stay in the Midwest, preferably MO or IL. Ultimately, I know that I need to be flexible, so I'd be happy to match into any program in the country as long as it's one that's located within a relatively large city (somewhere close to a large airport).

 

[Capote25]

any thoughts? should I even bother applying to the allopathic match or is this a lost cause?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

any thoughts? should I even bother applying to the allopathic match or is this a lost cause?

You should be able to find some interviews in the Midwest. Try to improve with the COMLEX2 if you can, get some really great LORs from psychiatrists.

 

[Euthymia]

any thoughts? should I even bother applying to the allopathic match or is this a lost cause?

I have similar stats and applied to ~50 and received ~20 interviews, including some in California and a few other well-respected programs. One of my roommates applied to maybe 30-35 and got 8 interviews with slightly worse grades. Just apply broadly and you should be fine.

 

[Capote25]

Thanks for the advice! that makes me feel better. I have a list of 45 schools right now to apply to so I'll stay optimistic. Hopefully there will be some programs that look past just the numbers.

 

[viinfiin]

Applying this coming cycle. Please help, currently on the east coast and hoping for a chance at a California Residency

Step 1: 207
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking it in July
School: US MD
Class Rank: Assuming I'm at the bottom
Grades in Clerkship: Just Passing
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 publication (2 others half a year before medical school but I'm assuming they don't count?)
Red Flags: Had to retake a final exam for a 2nd year class and also retaking one of my shelf exams at the end of this year
Overview of where you want to end up: California (hopefully)

 

[pyknotic]

Applying this coming cycle. Please help, currently on the east coast and hoping for a chance at a California Residency

Step 1: 207
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking it in July
School: US MD
Class Rank: Assuming I'm at the bottom
Grades in Clerkship: Just Passing
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 publication (2 others half a year before medical school but I'm assuming they don't count?)
Red Flags: Had to retake a final exam for a 2nd year class and also retaking one of my shelf exams at the end of this year
Overview of where you want to end up: California (hopefully)

Assuming that you're not too picky about where you want to end up in California, I'd say your chances are still good. Roughly speaking, California's psych programs can be split up into the highly competitive (UCLA-Semel, UCSF, Stanford, UCSD, San Mateo), the moderately competitive (UC Davis, UC Irvine, UCLA-Harbor, UCLA-SFV, USC, CPMC), and the less competitive (UCSF-Fresno, UCLA-Kern, Loma Linda, Kaiser Fontana, Kaweah Delta). If you're set on going to San Francisco or Los Angeles, your chances go way down, but if you're okay with going anywhere in California, there are enough programs that you will have a good shot. It would be wrong to assume that you would get an inferior training at the less competitive programs -- many are excellent programs but get the short end of the stick mostly due to location (Central California's not the nicest place to be). I would check out this thread for more info on some of the programs.

 

[IamPsychiatrist]

Assuming that you're not too picky about where you want to end up in California, I'd say your chances are still good. Roughly speaking, California's psych programs can be split up into the highly competitive (UCLA-Semel, UCSF, Stanford, UCSD, San Mateo), the moderately competitive (UC Davis, UC Irvine, UCLA-Harbor, UCLA-SFV, USC, CPMC), and the less competitive (UCSF-Fresno, UCLA-Kern, Loma Linda, Kaiser Fontana, Kaweah Delta). If you're set on going to San Francisco or Los Angeles, your chances go way down, but if you're okay with going anywhere in California, there are enough programs that you will have a good shot. It would be wrong to assume that you would get an inferior training at the less competitive programs -- many are excellent programs but get the short end of the stick mostly due to location (Central California's not the nicest place to be). I would check out this thread for more info on some of the programs.

I just wanted to ask about this quote specifically:

It would be wrong to assume that you would get an inferior training at the less competitive programs -- many are excellent programs but get the short end of the stick mostly due to location (Central California's not the nicest place to be).

Extending beyond California, how would one know if a program is good or not? I plan on asking residents and faculty but I'm also applying further away from our region to the west coast. If one had to guess, are 80% of programs good (as far as training), 90%? 70%?

I guess I'm not sure how I would know beyond asking faculty and going on the website.

 

[pyknotic]

Extending beyond California, how would one know if a program is good or not? I plan on asking residents and faculty but I'm also applying further away from our region to the west coast. If one had to guess, are 80% of programs good (as far as training), 90%? 70%?

I guess I'm not sure how I would know beyond asking faculty and going on the website.

I don't know if you can really peg a program as "good" or "bad," mostly because what is a good program to one person may be a bad program for another. All I can really say is that I have met with graduates of several of the less competitive programs, and all of them were quite satisfied with the training and education that they got. A good resource for you would be the interview review threads, although unfortunately reviews of the more competitive programs seem to outnumber the less competitive ones.

 

[viinfiin]

Assuming that you're not too picky about where you want to end up in California, I'd say your chances are still good. Roughly speaking, California's psych programs can be split up into the highly competitive (UCLA-Semel, UCSF, Stanford, UCSD, San Mateo), the moderately competitive (UC Davis, UC Irvine, UCLA-Harbor, UCLA-SFV, USC, CPMC), and the less competitive (UCSF-Fresno, UCLA-Kern, Loma Linda, Kaiser Fontana, Kaweah Delta). If you're set on going to San Francisco or Los Angeles, your chances go way down, but if you're okay with going anywhere in California, there are enough programs that you will have a good shot. It would be wrong to assume that you would get an inferior training at the less competitive programs -- many are excellent programs but get the short end of the stick mostly due to location (Central California's not the nicest place to be). I would check out this thread for more info on some of the programs.

Thanks for the information! It's encouraging to hear that I still have a chance.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Assuming that you're not too picky about where you want to end up in California, I'd say your chances are still good. Roughly speaking, California's psych programs can be split up into the highly competitive (UCLA-Semel, UCSF, Stanford, UCSD, San Mateo), the moderately competitive (UC Davis, UC Irvine, UCLA-Harbor, UCLA-SFV, USC, CPMC), and the less competitive (UCSF-Fresno, UCLA-Kern, Loma Linda, Kaiser Fontana, Kaweah Delta). If you're set on going to San Francisco or Los Angeles, your chances go way down, but if you're okay with going anywhere in California, there are enough programs that you will have a good shot. It would be wrong to assume that you would get an inferior training at the less competitive programs -- many are excellent programs but get the short end of the stick mostly due to location (Central California's not the nicest place to be). I would check out this thread for more info on some of the programs.

I want to dissuade med students from thinking in terms of hierarchy of competitiveness.

The top programs in California in my opinion are UCSF, UCLA-NPI, UCLA-Harbor, Stanford, UC Davis and UCSD. Forget about whats the "most competitive". Go where you'll get great training from high volume, broad exposure, strong attendings, and a stellar reputation. I did your homework for you and listed them. These top 6 are very competitive because they each look for a certain kind of applicant. If you get in at one of these programs you should be very proud. (This equates to 69 spots for the 2,300 psych applications in the match every year.)

Are you a top applicant from a strong med school with a good resume? Apply to these programs. How you rank them should be based on features of the programs, not on competitiveness.

 

[pyknotic]

I disagree with this hierarchy of competitiveness.

The top programs in California in my opinion are UCSF, UCLA-NPI, UCLA-Harbor, Stanford, UC Davis and UCSD. Forget about whats the "most competitive". Go where you'll get great training from high volume, broad exposure, strong attendings, and a stellar reputation. I did your homework for you and listed them. These top 6 are very competitive because they each look for a certain kind of applicant. If you get in at one of these programs you should be very proud.

Are you a top applicant from a strong med school with a good resume? Apply to these programs. How you rank them should be based on features of the programs, not on competitiveness.

I completely agree with you that people should apply based on features of the programs themselves rather than how competitive they are. However, the original question was, essentially, "Can I get into a California program with an average application and a few minor red flags?" so I thought it was appropriate to answer in terms of competitiveness (i.e., likeliness of getting an interview and subsequently matching) rather than the quality of the programs, with a link to your thread for more info on the latter.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

No worries. I always appreciate your input on things and was just trying to dissuade applicants from thinking too much like a med student... you know, the whole competitive mentality. I'm guilty of it too sometimes.

Good luck to everyone who submitted lists. I can't wait to see who will join my California program.

 

[wingandprayer]

Apply for match 2015
Step 1:192
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking in summer
School:US MD school
Class Rank: middle of the pack
Grades in Clerkship:High pass-Psych+FM, pass everything else (thus far)
AOA:no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 papers and 4 posters (none in psych)
Red Flags: 2 step 1 failures (losts of outside distractions that ultimately had me take time off school, but now in the past and ultimately the reason why I found a passion for Psych)
Overview of where you want to end up: anywhere in Florida

I know the step is going to hurt but I want to know how much, and NO it wont happen again on step 2, but do I have any chance anywhere in Florida?

 

[rkaz]

The top programs in California in my opinion are UCSF, UCLA-NPI, UCLA-Harbor, Stanford, UC Davis and UCSD. Forget about whats the "most competitive". Go where you'll get great training from high volume, broad exposure, strong attendings, and a stellar reputation. I did your homework for you and listed them. These top 6 are very competitive because they each look for a certain kind of applicant. If you get in at one of these programs you should be very proud. (This equates to 69 spots for the 2,300 psych applications in the match every year.)

Out of curiosity, would you say the same for fellowship at these programs? I am a DO student with some red flags (though they were in the earlier part of med school, and I did really well in 3rd/4th year). I did not get interviews at any of these California programs, though got many interviews at solid university programs in other states. Just curious if I might still have a shot at applying to any of these 6 programs for fellowship in the future, coming out of a decent residency program. Or would being a DO with a few red flags in school be permanently held against me. I am not sure also if fellowship programs consider our medical school transcripts and level 1/2 board scores. Thanks!

 

[notdeadyet]

Out of curiosity, would you say the same for fellowship at these programs? I am a DO student with some red flags (though they were in the earlier part of med school, and I did really well in 3rd/4th year). I did not get interviews at any of these California programs, though got many interviews at solid university programs in other states. Just curious if I might still have a shot at applying to any of these 6 programs for fellowship in the future, coming out of a decent residency program. Or would being a DO with a few red flags in school be permanently held against me. I am not sure also if fellowship programs consider our medical school transcripts and level 1/2 board scores. Thanks!

Depends on the fellowship and the program. UCSF, UCLA-NPI, and (to a only slightly lesser extent) Stanford tend to be tougher than the rest for residency and fellowship. But fellowship is funny. While these three programs may be harder, they all scramble to fill the uncompetitive fellowships (Geri comes to mind).

And each of the California programs can be extremely competitive in individual fellowships that does not necessarily correspond to their general psych reputation or competitiveness. Ucsf and UC Davis' forensic fellowship are extremely competitive, but UC Davis is actually one of the hardest to get into in the country. UCLA, ucsf, and Stanford all have competitive child programs, but Stanford is far and away the most.

A DO who does well in an allopathic psych residency will have no problem matching into a California psych fellowship, it just depends on where and what fellowship. Keep in mind that in general, professionally in almost any field, no one much cares about your background beyond your last experience. If you do well in residency, how you did in med school or where you went doesn't matter much. If you're a rock star resident, your medical school troubles will likely bother you more than anyone you interview with.