Official 2013-2014 - What are my chances thread?

[shan564]

Remember, all of that was contingent on the fact that you do well on CK. If your CK score is comparable to your Step 1 score, then you might be less competitive at some places in the Midwest.

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[Rebs28]

What if I have a good CK score (I scored 253 on my last self-assessment), but have a CS failure? This is hypothetical at this point, but I took CS today and am nearly certain that I failed, especially given the higher standards. I would be able to retake and have a score before ranking, but not before interviews. Would I get ANY interviews in the Midwest?

 

[BobA]

Either repeating second year or failing CK would be a yellow flag that could be overlooked many places. The combination would be more worrisome. HOWEVER, it seems like you could challenge those thoughts a little bit - is there evidence you didn't pass? Could anxiety from the test be coloring how you view the results?

Also, there's only one way forward for now - even if you didn't pass then you would just take it again. Assuming you pass it on the second attempt that's the best you can do. You will probably still match someplace pretty good in the midwest (as an USAMG), and your home program is always your best chance. None of the places you mentioned were very competitive (even if they are solid programs).

 

[Rebs28]

There is substantial evidence that I didn't pass CS, but I will have to wait for my score report to be certain. Anxiety from the test could definitely be clouding my view of the results, so I suppose it is possible that I did pass, but I don't think it's likely.

I will just have to move forward, as you said. My only hope is that I do well on CK and the results are available as soon as my application is submitted. I hope that a good CK score might make up for the poor Step 1 score, leave of absence, and possible CS failure, but I will prepare myself to face the consequences if it does not.

Thanks so much for your reply, I appreciate your input.

 

[Rockytop00]

d

 

[notdeadyet]

My anxiety: Can I get into 1 of the 7 schools in the Philadelphia area.

Unless you come across as a real $hit in interviews, you shouldn't have any problem matching in one of the programs, likely something high on your list.

By the way, for questions about competitiveness, mentioning MD or DO instead of "U.S. Medical School" is helpful. Won't matter for what you're asking, Rocky.

 

[shan564]

My anxiety: Can I get into 1 of the 7 schools in the Philadelphia area.

Step 1: 238
Step 2 CK/ CS: (taking it on Saturday)
School: US Medical School
Class Rank: Not sure but probably 50th percentile
Grades in Clerkship: Psych = Honors, all others pass
AOA: Nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Nope, some volunteer stuff... most of my interesting things come from before medical school in my previous work experience, didn't do too much during medical school beside study.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) Definitely not
Overview of where you want to end up: Philadelphia, any and all programs in that city. Don't care which, just need to go there to be with my wife.

You'll be fine. Unless you're a terrible interviewer, you'll probably match at one of your top 2 choices. There's only one reasonably competitive program in Philly.

 

[Rockytop00]

d

 

[primadonna22274]

Chance me please:

Step 1: 212 first attempt
COMLEX 1: 583 first attempt
Step 2 CK/ CS: not yet, scheduled Sept
School: LECOM-Erie, first class of Accelerated Physician Assistant Pathway (graduate in 3 yr)
Class Rank: no idea, upper 50% maybe?
Grades in Clerkship: all 90s+ and high shelf exam scores if anybody looks at those
AOA: as if! I worked part-time during med school due to financial necessity
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 13 yr as PA-C FM/EM. 4 yr teaching PAs, 2 at an established program in the SE. National presenter on palliative care education for PAs and published in national PA education journal. Very old publication in national PA journal on dual disorders. Dedicated to teaching and patient care. Older brother with severe paranoid schizophrenia (honestly turned me off of psych for many years, felt too close to home)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) I'm almost 40 but look early 30s and healthy
Overview of where you want to end up: Geriatric psychiatry, academic inpatient. LOVE LOVE LOVE MUSC's combined IM-Psychiatry residency program with possibly a geri psych fellowship (if necessary) and possibly hospice/pall med fellowship later. SC resident but no audition rotations at MUSC I'm afraid my step 1 score may have screened me out of dual IM-psych but appreciate opinions from those wiser. Thanks!

 

[Rebs28]

So sorry to revive a dead thread and be an annoying MS4, but I wanted to check back with you kind experts about how broadly I should apply. My updated info is below. I am very excited about many programs throughout the country now that I've read more, and have 38 on my list so far in the Midwest, South, and upper West coast. I'm wondering if that's enough programs to get enough interviews to match given my Step 1 and red flag. Would you advise that I apply to more programs to get enough interviews?

Also, I saw that primadonna22274 never got any advice, so thought I'd bump to see if you could help her as well.

Step 1: 200+
Step 2 CK/ CS: 250+/Pass
School: Allopathic US School.
Class Rank: Not sure.
Grades in Clerkship: Mostly ABs, two As, two Bs. AB in Psych.
AOA: Nope.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: MFM research for one year/No publications/Coordinator of student run psych free clinic for one year, volunteer with free clinic system during all years, co-chair of Psych interest group for one semester, co-chair of women's health advocacy group for one semester
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) My mom died my first year of med school and I tried to go on to year two, but family issues got in the way. I got an A in the first class of the year, but BCs in every other class that semester. I technically never failed anything. I took a leave of absence near the end of the semester (so there are three incompletes on my record, but no incomplete-failures) and returned the next year for my second year. I petitioned to repeat the courses I earned BCs in, and finished my second attempt at second year with mostly ABs.

 

[HappyHypomanic]

Step 1: comlex 420s, no usmle
Step 2 CK/ CS: 550s
School: DO
Class Rank: middle 1/3
Grades in Clerkship: a little above average, mostly As
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: couple posters
Red Flags: 2 remediations in preclinical years
Overview of where you want to end up: California would be good, but I'm open

 

[notdeadyet]

To those of you posting worried about your Step I's around the 205-215 range, I just wanted to say that mine was in there and I ended up getting accepted to what most would consider a very competitive program.

Psychiatry is much less obsessed with metrics than most. They want to see evidence of professionalism/maturity, good LORs, and (especially) a good interview that demonstrates you'd be someone they want to work with. There are very few programs that will screen out a Step I in this range, and for the few that do, there are other programs just as good or better that don't. I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[notdeadyet]

As an aside, for all of the osteopaths who are explaining why you weren't AOA, you might want to explain what that means.

For allopaths on the forum, AOA is Alpha Omega Alpha, an honors society for the top 15% of med students at allopathic programs. Osteopathic students aren't eligible, so you're N/A.

Someone said osteopathic students have Sigma Sigma Phi (?) but I'm not sure if it's the same thing...

 

[splik]

Chance me please:

Step 1: 212 first attempt
COMLEX 1: 583 first attempt
Step 2 CK/ CS: not yet, scheduled Sept
School: LECOM-Erie, first class of Accelerated Physician Assistant Pathway (graduate in 3 yr)
Class Rank: no idea, upper 50% maybe?
Grades in Clerkship: all 90s+ and high shelf exam scores if anybody looks at those
AOA: as if! I worked part-time during med school due to financial necessity
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 13 yr as PA-C FM/EM. 4 yr teaching PAs, 2 at an established program in the SE. National presenter on palliative care education for PAs and published in national PA education journal. Very old publication in national PA journal on dual disorders. Dedicated to teaching and patient care. Older brother with severe paranoid schizophrenia (honestly turned me off of psych for many years, felt too close to home)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) I'm almost 40 but look early 30s and healthy
Overview of where you want to end up: Geriatric psychiatry, academic inpatient. LOVE LOVE LOVE MUSC's combined IM-Psychiatry residency program with possibly a geri psych fellowship (if necessary) and possibly hospice/pall med fellowship later. SC resident but no audition rotations at MUSC I'm afraid my step 1 score may have screened me out of dual IM-psych but appreciate opinions from those wiser. Thanks!

combined IM/psych programs with the exception of Duke are notoriously unpopular so I would definitely apply. dont know about the MUSC specifically but you have a good COMLEX score and one would think your extensive PA experience would be a boon to your app for combined med/psych programs. Usually there is no good reason to do these programs, but it sounds like you are interested in psychogeries and palliative medicine which both would benefit from combined expertise.

bear in mind that these combined programs shortchange you in one respect and that is psychotherapy. something has to go and that is the first thing to be cut out. technically you will have to be 'competent' in the major modalities but in reality you will get little experience in doing a combined program. another thought is if you are interested mainly in psych but want to treat medical comorbidities your previous training may mean you are already au fait with this and as long as you keep up to date in this regard there is no reason why you have to do this. although your age should not be a barrier (and your maturity will hopefully be welcomed though call will be harder) you probably want to keep your training as short as possible by now!

 

[Daedra22]

As an aside, for all of the osteopaths who are explaining why you weren't AOA, you might want to explain what that means.

For allopaths on the forum, AOA is Alpha Omega Alpha, an honors society for the top 15% of med students at allopathic programs. Osteopathic students aren't eligible, so you're N/A.

Someone said osteopathic students have Sigma Sigma Phi (?) but I'm not sure if it's the same thing...

SSP is somewhat similar but not an exact equivalent. I forget what the metric is, but I think you have to have a certain level of grades (or rank, I'm not clear because either way I wasn't eligible ) and complete a threshold number of community service hours each year.

 

[notdeadyet]

combined IM/psych programs with the exception of Duke are notoriously unpopular so I would definitely apply.

I would add that I would very carefully try to get the inside scoop on individual programs before banking on them. Several have been reducing size and closing their doors due to lack of popularity and/or perceived need.

You need to have particularly strong leadership representing you when you're in a combined residency (not really "home" in either) and I question how strong that leadership would be in a moribund program.

 

[primadonna22274]

combined IM/psych programs with the exception of Duke are notoriously unpopular so I would definitely apply. dont know about the MUSC specifically but you have a good COMLEX score and one would think your extensive PA experience would be a boon to your app for combined med/psych programs. Usually there is no good reason to do these programs, but it sounds like you are interested in psychogeries and palliative medicine which both would benefit from combined expertise.

bear in mind that these combined programs shortchange you in one respect and that is psychotherapy. something has to go and that is the first thing to be cut out. technically you will have to be 'competent' in the major modalities but in reality you will get little experience in doing a combined program. another thought is if you are interested mainly in psych but want to treat medical comorbidities your previous training may mean you are already au fait with this and as long as you keep up to date in this regard there is no reason why you have to do this. although your age should not be a barrier (and your maturity will hopefully be welcomed though call will be harder) you probably want to keep your training as short as possible by now!

Thank you for this. I agree with you. I am leaning toward IM now but will always have a soft spot for Geri psych.

 

[PistolPete]

Step 1: comlex 420s, no usmle
Step 2 CK/ CS: 550s
School: DO
Class Rank: middle 1/3
Grades in Clerkship: a little above average, mostly As
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: couple posters
Red Flags: 2 remediations in preclinical years
Overview of where you want to end up: California would be good, but I'm open

A 420's comlex will hurt, especially with no USMLE, but you can still get in somewhere if you apply broadly. Make sure to get good letters of rec, and if possible, do an away rotation at 2 places where you think you want to go and have a good chance of getting in, and rock them! UC-Irvine and UCLA are less DO friendly, you'd have a better shot at UCLA-San Fernando, UCLA-Bakersfield, Loma Linda, and UCFS-Fresno.

 

[HappyHypomanic]

A 420's comlex will hurt, especially with no USMLE, but you can still get in somewhere if you apply broadly.

Hopefully my comlex 2 will help. How many places should I apply? I don't even know where I should apply. I've been getting a lot of mixed advice.

 

[Firewood]

Step 1: 209
Step 2 CK/ CS: 256/Pass
School: Allopathic US School.
Class Rank: Not sure.
Grades in Clerkship: Mostly ABs, two As, two Bs. AB in Psych.
AOA: Nope.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: MFM research for one year/No publications/Coordinator of student run psych free clinic for one year, volunteer with free clinic system during all years, co-chair of Psych interest group for one semester, co-chair of women's health advocacy group for one semester
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) My mom died my first year of med school and I tried to go on to year two, but family issues got in the way. I got an A in the first class of the year, but BCs in every other class that semester. I technically never failed anything. I took a leave of absence near the end of the semester (so there are three incompletes on my record, but no incomplete-failures) and returned the next year for my second year. I petitioned to repeat the courses I earned BCs in, and finished my second attempt at second year with mostly ABs.

38 programs is probably too many. Your "red flag" isn't a terrible one; you have no failures (if I'm understanding your grading system right), your Step 1 was decent, and your Step 2 more than makes up for it. It looks like you have a proven interest in psych, and your interest in women's health can also be a positive if you can make the connection to an interest in women's mental health.

As for the leave of absence and repeating a year, most programs are less interested in pre-clinical years, so long as you pass the classes, than they are in clinical performance. Life happens, programs understand this. My experience is that students who have something like this come up and are self-reflective and insightful enough about it to have learned some lessons are actually looked at positively. I heard my program director say that he'd rather have a student that's had some life challenges and proved to be resilient than someone who's just plowed straight through school without any problems (and, to paraphrase, is then his problem once they hit a road bump and have no coping skills).

As to the number of programs to apply to, I applied very regionally so I can't give you an exact number. As I said, 38 sounds like too many. 15-20 may be a better number. We'll see what others who applied more nationally say. But so long as you apply to a good mix of mid- and upper- "tier" residencies, and maybe a few "safeties", I'm sure you'll get plenty of interviews.

 

[PistolPete]

HappyHypomanic, your comlex level 2 will definitely help. I'd apply to about 30 places. You can always turn down interviews later.

 

[HappyHypomanic]

HappyHypomanic, your comlex level 2 will definitely help. I'd apply to about 30 places. You can always turn down interviews later.

Thanks for advice.

 

[Rebs28]

Thank you so much for the advice Firewood, I really appreciate it! I will pare down my list of programs.

 

[Chocochipcookie]

.

 

[shan564]

Step 1: 230
Step 2 CK/ CS: 241/CS Pass on first attempt
School: Caribbean IMG, big 4, US citizen
Class Rank: 2nd quartile
Grades in Clerkship: my school does letter grades, all As--4.0 clinical GPA
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: I have three research projects that I'm involved in from undergrad to med school, but no publications yet. My research from undergrad was in psychology and my two projects in med school were in medicine. No clubs during med school.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) none
Overview of where you want to end up: Northeast, particularly NY; I'd prefer larger university programs just because I want more research opportunities. I don't mind not staying in the NE as long as it's a good/mid-tier university program. Ultimately, I'm leaning towards forensics.

I was also wondering how many programs I should apply to, right now I'm thinking 50 programs but being a Carib grad, I don't know if I should just go ahead and shell out some more money on more programs. On another note, I have 4 LORs but I'm nervous that they might not be absolutely glowing but while I have no reason to suspect that they wouldn't be, I'm just nervous about everything and a bit of a worry-wart.

Thanks in advance; I really appreciate any and all advice!

If you interview reasonably well, you'll have several options. You'll have to compromise on a program's academic strength if you want to go to NYC. St. Luke's is a good program that just started doing a research track option and you get to work with Columbia faculty, but they don't get a lot of students if you're interested in teaching. Harvard South Shore is also decent for research opportunities if you're interested in neuroimaging, but again, no students and very limited clinical experience. Maryland and Georgetown are good options, but I'm not sure if that's north enough for you. If you don't mind coming to the Midwest, you can get better academic options.

 

[SmallBird]

Harvard South Shore is also decent for research opportunities if you're interested in neuroimaging, but again, no students and very limited clinical experience.

I don't think thats a reasonable statement - they have so many training sites, I think you would have a very broad experience. The VA also provides a diverse patient population except for women.

 

[mass1]

At Harvard South Shore, we do not have many students to teach, though we have some opportunity to teach Boston University medical students on inpatient psychiatry rotations as well as Harvard medical students during our Neurology rotations. As far as the clinical experience, it is fairly diverse. As a PGY2, I will be spending about half the year in non-VA sites (rotation sites have changed this year). In addition, the VA is treating increasingly more female veterans every year.

 

[belfalas]

looking for some more opinions

Step 1: 245
Step 2 CK/ CS: 245/pass
School: Caribbean
Class Rank: not sure
Grades in Clerkship: a little above average, mostly As
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: none
Red Flags: 2 years out of medical school
Overview of where you want to end up: Ohio, but i'm open to options

thanks

 

[PistolPete]

looking for some more opinions

Step 1: 245
Step 2 CK/ CS: 245/pass
School: Caribbean
Class Rank: not sure
Grades in Clerkship: a little above average, mostly As
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: none
Red Flags: 2 years out of medical school
Overview of where you want to end up: Ohio, but i'm open to options

thanks

You have good scores, but your biggest hurdle is being out of med school 2 years. Most programs set their limit at 3 years. You need to apply very broadly this cycle, and try and rotate at a place or 2 where you want to be and think you have a shot of getting in (has taken IMG's before). I think you have a good change of matching somewhere given your great scores as long as you interview OK.

 

[shan564]

looking for some more opinions

Step 1: 245
Step 2 CK/ CS: 245/pass
School: Caribbean
Class Rank: not sure
Grades in Clerkship: a little above average, mostly As
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: none
Red Flags: 2 years out of medical school
Overview of where you want to end up: Ohio, but i'm open to options

thanks

It'll also depend on whether you have a good reason to be out of med school for 2 years, and whether you've been doing something productive/clinical in that time. If not, I'd suggest starting to do something clinical ASAP so that you can say in the interview that you're not completely out of touch.

Also, every program also sets different filters for interviewing people. Some places will filter you out because of your red flag, while others will ignore it altogether and you'll be near the top of their list because of your scores. So if you apply widely enough, you'll be fine. I'd suggest applying to every program in and near Ohio, especially Detroit.

 

[jdwillas]

I hope you don't a mind one with hypothetical (minimum passing) scores for a French medical graduate in her third year of residency in France. Intentions to take the USMLE after completing residency in 2015 and apply for U.S. residency the same year. Married to an American so no visa issues.

Step 1: minimum passing score
Step 2 CK/ CS: minimum passing score/pass
School: Lille, France
Class Rank: 50th percentile across nation
Grades in Clerkship: good marks
AOA: n/a
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Thesis related to sexual crime victims and trauma
Red Flags: one year off of medical school to study Japanese language in Japan. Not a native English speaker but nearly fluent with light accent. No clinical experience in English-speaking country.
Overview of where you want to end up: Small hospital in a rural area or "rural city" where I can work on a small, focused team. Open to any region in the U.S.

Does it help one's chances if a candidate has completed residency in their own country?

 

[splik]

minimum passing scores are not good enough for a foreign medical graduate and is not very useful to comment until your wife has completed the USMLEs (she should attempt to complete steps 1-3 and not just up to 2). She needs to do as well as she can. Yes it is helpful in some regard to have completed training, but for some people it will be a negative as it is very hard to 'unlearn' things. It may be helpful for her to spend some time in an English speaking country, and in fact, the European Federation of Psychiatric Trainees have a scheme such that she could potentially do a rotation in the UK. Whilst this is not quite the same as US experience, some programs do look at this type of experience as equivalent in some regards.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

C'mon people, this thread is really pointless. To have a "What are my chances" thread in one of the easiest fields of medicine to match into is taking ourselves too seriously and frankly quite funny. A competitive field like dermatology should have a "What are my chances" thread, but not psychiatry. If you are posting in here then it means you must have red flags somewhere or else you wouldn't wonder what your chances are.

I couldn't hold myself back any longer, so here's my satire on this thread:

"Hello, I was just wondering what you guys thought about my chances of matching into psychiatry next cycle. Here's my stats:

Step 1: 190
Step 2 CK/ CS: failed CS twice then passed after I learned to speak Enlish good / 200 on CK
School: Little Island Medical School somewhere in the South pacific
Class Rank: of 10 students I was 9th
Grades in Clerkship: three handshakes
AOA: on the islands we get extra coconuts for good work
Research/ Publications: "PTSD in marine life"
Red Flags: I was a murderer in my former country before moving to the islands. Hope this won't be a big deal.

So, what are my chances of matching to psychiatry?

OldPsychDoc: "Just apply broadly, but don't get your hopes up because the murder history is questionable"

Vistaril: "Anyone can match into psych. You'll have no problem."

For all the folks posting on this thread, these two responses will apply to you.

 

[jdwillas]

Thank you Splik. We will definitely look into a rotation in England as well as opportunities for clinical experience in the U.S.. And she's making double efforts not to murder anyone between now and 2015. Trickiest part for us will be these LORs from "world famous American psychiatrists."

 

[OldPsychDoc]

It'll also depend on whether you have a good reason to be out of med school for 2 years, and whether you've been doing something productive/clinical in that time. If not, I'd suggest starting to do something clinical ASAP so that you can say in the interview that you're not completely out of touch.

Also, every program also sets different filters for interviewing people. Some places will filter you out because of your red flag, while others will ignore it altogether and you'll be near the top of their list because of your scores. So if you apply widely enough, you'll be fine. I'd suggest applying to every program in and near Ohio, especially Detroit.

I believe belfelas has said they're currently in a path program, so the 3 years post graduation shouldn't be too big a deal.

 

[belfalas]

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies.

And yes, I am currently in a residency program, first year path. I don't think it will be practical for me to apply this year for the match as I won't be able to take time off, due to my rotation schedule, to go on many interviews (assuming I get any). So I will try for next year's match, thus I will be 2 year out of medical school.
I will use that time to try to get some more psychiatry experience and hopefully a letter of rec since I currently don't have any from a psychiatrist.

Sorry for the re-post, I saw a band-wagon and jumped on!!

 

[tobi44]

C'mon people, this thread is really pointless. To have a "What are my chances" thread in one of the easiest fields of medicine to match into is taking ourselves too seriously and frankly quite funny. A competitive field like dermatology should have a "What are my chances" thread, but not psychiatry. If you are posting in here then it means you must have red flags somewhere or else you wouldn't wonder what your chances are.

I couldn't hold myself back any longer, so here's my satire on this thread:

"Hello, I was just wondering what you guys thought about my chances of matching into psychiatry next cycle. Here's my stats:

Step 1: 190
Step 2 CK/ CS: failed CS twice then passed after I learned to speak Enlish good / 200 on CK
School: Little Island Medical School somewhere in the South pacific
Class Rank: of 10 students I was 9th
Grades in Clerkship: three handshakes
AOA: on the islands we get extra coconuts for good work
Research/ Publications: "PTSD in marine life"
Red Flags: I was a murderer in my former country before moving to the islands. Hope this won't be a big deal.

So, what are my chances of matching to psychiatry?

OldPsychDoc: "Just apply broadly, but don't get your hopes up because the murder history is questionable"

Vistaril: "Anyone can match into psych. You'll have no problem."

For all the folks posting on this thread, these two responses will apply to you.

Haha, this is perfect. Thx leo.

 

[Slikateer]

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies.

And yes, I am currently in a residency program, first year path. I don't think it will be practical for me to apply this year for the match as I won't be able to take time off, due to my rotation schedule, to go on many interviews (assuming I get any). So I will try for next year's match, thus I will be 2 year out of medical school.
I will use that time to try to get some more psychiatry experience and hopefully a letter of rec since I currently don't have any from a psychiatrist.

Sorry for the re-post, I saw a band-wagon and jumped on!!

Belfalas, if you can get anytime to do this, my recommendation is to get Step 3 out of the way, especially as an FMG/Caribbean graduate. Your Step 2 Grades are really good, so I think Step 3 is very doable for you.

Many Psych programs are looking to see if applicants have taken Step 3 or not, and it is an advantage to have this done. A lot of psychiatry residencies are moving to making USMLE Step 3 a mandatory requirement to complete the program, so if you got this done before starting psychiatry residency, that is a big plus in the eyes of the program directors.

Also, be prepared on your interviews why you switched from Pathology to Psychiatry. I know I got hit with that question a lot (I switched from Internal Medicine to Psychiatry). Expound on your experiences doing observership in psychiatry, etc., and why you feel this specialty is a better fit than Pathology.

Good luck!

 

[belfalas]

Hi Slikateer

Thanks for your input. I have signed up for Step 3 and will be taking it first week of November!! So will definitely have it ready for when I apply for the 2014-2015 match.
Right now I am just wondering how I can get letters of recommendations in Psychiatry. Did you get any specific letters Slikateer? Or did your general letters carry you through?

 

[Talk Doc]

Step 1: 240's
Step 2 CK: 220's
CS: Pass
School: US Allopathic
Class Rank: Top third.
Grades in Clerkship: High pass psychiatry and 2 others
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Lots of extracurriculars including previous work in psych. Some bench research.
Red Flags: None
Overview of where you want to end up: Either a really strong community program (san mateo or harbor-esque), or an ivy-league academic center.

What do you all think about my competitiveness for big-name schools?

 

[cooldoc23]

I was stupid and didn't apply to some programs until today. Does this greatly hinder my chances to get interviews since it's been over a week since applications went out? I honestly don't know if I'm freaking out, or not freaking out enough. Some insight would be appreciated.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

No one can guarantee you will be fine, but a week will not make a difference. I wouldn't sweat it, or at least don't sweat any more than you would if you applied a week ago.

 

[SandyWest]

I am sure most of you hate these types of posts where FMGs post their insecurities in hope of finding comfort from strangers on the internet, but I could genuinely use some help and "real world" advice.

The usual start: long time lurker, recent poster.

I am an FMG who is presently reeling from the shock of scoring way below what I expected to score on one of my steps and looking for tips to deal with the interview season. My Step 2 CK score is less than 210. I have passed CS, have a step 1 score around the national mean and have three LORs from an ivy league university, at least two of them stellar. The caveat is that they are from an observership. I am presently doing another observership in a "name-brand" university in the midwest which I have not mentioned on the ERAS application but I guess I can bring it up during the interview. I am a recent graduate and have a good personal statement (or so I am told). I am the second author in one minor paper published in a national journal. My school does not have a honor system and I have no awards.

I had earlier planned to stay in the US until January, finish my interviews and Step 3 and leave. But now I feel my chances at matching are dwindling and I should rather be laying the groundwork for a residency position at my home country (where exams are in Nov-Dec and interviews in Jan). Although I do not have a major research background, I have a lot of research ideas (that I never got to execute in medical school as all of them were related to psychiatry) and want to match to a university program at the very minimum. I would rather do my residency in my home country than at a community program here.

So, here are my questions:

1. Given my situation, can those in the know chime in on your frank appraisals of my chances of getting many interviews to mid-tier or even low-tier university programs and eventually matching into one of them? It would be very useful for me. I can then decide whether I should stay here waiting for the interviews and prepare for Step 3, or leave for options in my home country and come back just for the 2 or 3 interviews I am probably going to get in the next three months and which I can schedule them together in one 15-day period. To generalize that question, how important are Step 2 CK scores for an FMG to get an interview, and to match.

2. I have received two rejections so far (both before I received my CK score today) and both have said they have received about 100 applications for each spot on their program, and that "it is suddenly very competitive this year". Is this true, and is the NRMP match data from previous years not useful to predict the prospects anymore? If it is true, why is it so? I was under the impression that the major increase in medical school intake was in 2011 so it was next year's match that was going to be get "suddenly very competitive"?

3. What would be the best way to deal with the low scores during interviews (if I get them)? Should I actively bring it up or wait for the interviewers to do so? How do I explain the 15-point decrease in scores from Step 1 to Step 2 when the national average increases by 15 points from Step 1 to Step 2?

Sorry for the long-winded question. I really wish ECFMG had some sort of a counseling service like US medical schools have so I could have asked them all this instead.

Here's a premature thanks to everyone who is going to post below this post. Thanks!

 

[Bartelby]

Step 1: 240's
Step 2 CK: 220's
CS: Pass
School: US Allopathic
Class Rank: Top third.
Grades in Clerkship: High pass psychiatry and 2 others
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Lots of extracurriculars including previous work in psych. Some bench research.
Red Flags: None
Overview of where you want to end up: Either a really strong community program (san mateo or harbor-esque), or an ivy-league academic center.

What do you all think about my competitiveness for big-name schools?

I think you have a good shot. The clerkship grades may be mildly limiting, but if that bench research includes publications that should make up for it to a significant extent. At the most competitive few places your odds are a little lower, but if you pick a 'top ten' programs list based on whatever criteria you choose I'm pretty sure you can end up at one of them.

I would apply to 16 or so schools (with a couple local safeties included) and go to around 10 interviews. You should be in good shape!

 

[SandyWest]

Step 1: <225
Step 2 CK: <210
Step 2 CS: Pass
School: Top medical school in the country, but country is not US
Class Rank: School does not rank
Grades in Clerkship: School does not grade clerkships/internships
Publications: One minor, non-psych publication in a national journal, again not US
Red Flags: A down-sloping of score from step 1 to 2 that is contrary to the usual trend, a low step 2 score, and FMG requiring a visa?
Overview of where you want to end up: Mid-tier university programs

 

[vistaril]

first off, there aren't a lot of true community programs in psych. And there are some university programs that feel very much like a community program(even moreso in some cases)

You shouldn't automatically assume that the least competitive/worst programs are community. And if your goal is to be a psychiatrist in the US(which it sounds like it is), I'm puzzled why you would rather do a residency in your home country(which isn't going to help you with that in the least) vs doing a community psych residency here in the states.

But basically you're distinction between community and unversity programs in psych is silly. So you would be ok going to LSU-shreveport(it is a university program after all right?) over San Mateo(a community program)?

My guess is you've probably got a decent shot to match if you speak english decently and come across as fairly likable. You're best shot is probably at noncompetitive university programs in the south, texas, and the midwest. Good luck.

 

[SandyWest]

You shouldn't automatically assume that the least competitive/worst programs are community. And if your goal is to be a psychiatrist in the US(which it sounds like it is), I'm puzzled why you would rather do a residency in your home country(which isn't going to help you with that in the least) vs doing a community psych residency here in the states.

I apologize if I gave you that impression. My goal is not to be a psychiatrist in the US, but rather to be an academic psychiatrist in a country where I would have good opportunities for research. US is fantastic. My country isn't too bad. And my reason for wanting to be at a university program is to make sure my path to academic psychiatry is never obstructed, and to maybe also have a chance to fast-track into research even during residency.

But basically you're distinction between community and unversity programs in psych is silly. So you would be ok going to LSU-shreveport(it is a university program after all right?) over San Mateo(a community program)?

If my reasoning above is correct, then yes. Also, as an IMG with no SSN, Cali programs are out of my reach.

My guess is you've probably got a decent shot to match if you speak english decently and come across as fairly likable. You're best shot is probably at noncompetitive university programs in the south, texas, and the midwest. Good luck.

I know people generally make fun of your posts here, and even though it does not quite answer my first question, I thank you for this part of your post. It helped in more ways than one.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Cali programs will be tough. At my program none of our residents across all 4 years are foreign-trained. Some DOs yes, but no FMGs.

 

[notdeadyet]

Cali programs will be tough. At my program none of our residents across all 4 years are foreign-trained. Some DOs yes, but no FMGs.

OP- There is a new program opening up in Visalia, CA. It is (or was) affiliated with UCI. FMGs might have a good shot there, at least for the good couple of years. Definitely spend some time getting to know the area.

Apply early and broadly and you'll match somewhere. Limiting yourself to academic programs in major metropolitan areas will be a real roll of the dice though.

 

[notdeadyet]

Step 1: <225
Step 2 CK: <210
Step 2 CS: Pass
School: Top medical school in the country, but country is not US
Class Rank: School does not rank
Grades in Clerkship: School does not grade clerkships/internships
Publications: One minor, non-psych publication in a national journal, again not US
Red Flags: A down-sloping of score from step 1 to 2 that is contrary to the usual trend, a low step 2 score, and FMG requiring a visa?
Overview of where you want to end up: Mid-tier university programs

If you interview well, you'll likely find a place if you apply broadly and early. I wouldn't get so fixated on "mid-tier university program." Your likelihood of matching is probably going to be proportional to how open-minded you are.