Obama=socialism

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Jeff05 said:
wait a second. you made almost 80k without graduate education working 70 hours a week. sweet. how would you like to make 100k with a graduate education and residency and patients lives in your hand. not that great of a deal, right?

you mention denmark. ok. in denmark has a relatively homogenous (socioeconomically speaking) population who all pay taxes and live at about the same level. they have excellent free public schools and excellent free college and grad school. so their taxes go to that. the 400 billion to be raised over the next 10 years from increasing taxes on the "rich" (couple makes more than 250k) will go directly to lowering taxes on the "poor"(couple makes less than 150k). in fact the cost of the proposed tax breaks for a portion of the population that only already pays a huge minority of taxes is about 800 billion.

so my federal taxes go back to 39.5%. sweet. but guess what. this administration is going one step further. it's decreasing my deductions in addition to that. that's a new addition. if you looked at your w2 for long enough, you would realize that there are lots of other taxes we pay. like state and SS (money i will NEVER see). as a resident, making much less than 75k/yr, i pay over 40% in taxes. the "rich" who are making over 250 (as a family) are paying 45-50%. with this additional tax burden does not raise their taxes by 4%. it raises them by up to 10% or more. do those people get better public services for that? no. they get nothing. do they get help with putting their kids through school? no. because they don't qualify for any help.

the families that make 250+ are the highly educated professionals of this country. the small businesses.

but, the administration must decrease entitlement spending, ie medicare and medicaid. they are proposing cuts to all across the board. likely a 25% decrease in the next year or two. private insurers will follow suit. salaries are a fraction of what they used to be.

all of a sudden, after working really really hard (no government handouts helped me), working my way through college, borrowing 250k for medical school, working crazy stressful hours for years of residency (and doing research and teaching), i am emerging into a market that is cutting my salary by 25% and increasing (my already 50% taxes) even higher. you could get an engineering job for 120k/yr (i don't think so)? that's really great. because with the current proposals a family doctor or an internist working long hours is going to be making less.

as a final note. you seem really sure about how the world works and really excellent at counting (tax) money that's not yours. maybe, just maybe you could be somewhat wrong and have a bit to learn. that's all i'm saying. you're a new medical student and no offense, but you have NO IDEA the $hitpie you're about to eat in med school and residency (and now far beyond).
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Denmark have a influx of immigration, from North african, eastern european and asian countries. Read up before making such comments about homogeneity and socioeconomics. People like you go on forums and say: minorities don't contribute to taxes and therefore my life is f**ked up.
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don't know where you got anything about minorities and contribution to taxes.

i specifically mentioned socioeconomically homogenous. not racially or culturally.


since you bring it up, here are the facts:

The U.S. population's distribution by race and ethnicity in 2006 was as follows:[32][33]
Total population: 299 million
White alone: 74% or 221.3 million
Not including the 23.2 million White Hispanic and Latino Americans: 66% or 198.1 million
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, of any race: 14.8% or about 44.3 million
Black or African American alone: 13.4% or 40.9 million
Some other race alone: 6.5% or 19 million
Asian alone: 4.4% or 13.1 million

In 2008, Denmark received refugees from around 70 countries in the world. The biggest population groups are from the former Republic of Yugoslavia, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Vietnam, Iran and the stateless Lebanese from Palestine. In total, 8.4% of the Danish population have a foreign background; this amounts to 452 095 people - 39% of whom are Danish citizens - of a total population of 5 million.

so a country of 6 million with 92% of population socially homogenous (all danes) vs. a country of 300 million where only 66% are RACIALLY "white" (but from very different backgrounds/countries of origin) homogenous.

relative to america denmark is VERY RACIALLY, SOCIOECONOMICALLY, AND CULTURALLY HOMOGENOUS.
 
Haven't read this entire thread, only about the first page or two so far.

I would just like to say that I saw the Atlas Shrugged recommendation on the first page and I decided to check it out. I ended up buying it for 30 or 40 bucks from Barnes and Noble. I've been reading it for a while now, about halfway through it at this point.

Probably the single best book I've ever read in my life, no scratch that, definitely the best. I used to be somewhat liberal, mostly due to household pressure, but I've become more conservative over the past few months, this book no doubt being part of that reason. It has changed my perspective on things and my philosophy in life in so many ways. There is a reason it was ranked 2nd most influential book of all time by the Library of Congress; I definitely recommend anyone with an inquisitive and introspective (this is critical to actually taking anything from it) mind to read it. A long, but infinitely worthwhile read.

Gern, you have my thanks. I doubt I ever would have considered it had I not stumbled upon this thread and your post.
 
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igottaquestion said:
that's great, but how many other doctors share this type of background? my family also wasn't well-off or highly educated, but like you i was blessed with parents who also instilled values of hard work and responsibility. i know i wouldn't be where i am if i had been born into many other families with the same SES. we're *lucky.*
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I guess you could say you're "lucky", but what about those who weren't instilled with the values of hard work/responsibility? What about those who learned those values on their own, and through hard work became somebody? Why is it their liability, and yours, to pay for the faults of other men who did not believe in the values of hard work, or were late in maturing to develop those values? Is it through any fault of theirs that other men did not want to work hard to earn a future, and thus they should pay the price?

Hell, why strive to become a doctor and sacrifice a good portion of my youth if I can just party and have a good time then live off of the welfare that the future docs will be paying for me? Damn, I could keep having a good time off of that too.

That's why I no longer believe in taxing the rich inordinately. Sure, some of the rich became rich through corrupt means. But most of the upper middle class got there through hard work, whether it was with a silver spoon or not. The lower class doesn't strive for that hard work, for whatever reason, and yet they seek to live off of the hard work of that upper class. That upper class, at least in the case of physicians, made great sacrifices to get to where they were. This lower class likely just had a good time and didn't worry about their future, then when **** hits the fan they realize they messed up. Suddenly they think everyone should be "equal", and call the upper tier "greedy". They don't realize that they are being completely hypocritical when they say that, because they want everyone to be "equal" so they can fulfill their financial greed and be socially level with that upper class; and on top of that, with no personal sacrifice or labor, the ultimate form of greed.

There are exceptions to the rule, yes, people that have absolutely no hope and are homeless. But there are also exceptions to those exceptions. Look at Andrew Carnegie. He wasn't privileged when he came to America, and see where he ended up. I'm a personal believer that anyone can become just about anything in this country if they try hard enough, it's just a matter of having that drive; and if they don't have that drive, why do I have to pay for it?

As an aside, those who argue that not everyone is that intelligent, not everyone is that competent, not everyone is smart enough to go to college; is that our fault? Is it our duty in life to pay for other men's fallacies?

The simple fact is, we probably can't give everyone a house; not in this reality anyway. That's an ideal world, and most people who tout socialism believe in this ideal world where everything works perfect and human nature is perfectly serene. This is the real world, and there will always be someone on top. There will always be competition. Always.

Besides, not everyone can be doctors, lawyers, and social workers. There has to be a class that fills factory and production jobs (unless we outsource all of them.. :rolleyes:).
 
Crazyday said:
As an aside, those who argue that not everyone is that intelligent, not everyone is that competent, not everyone is smart enough to go to college; is that our fault? Is it our duty in life to pay for other men's fallacies?

The simple fact is, we probably can't give everyone a house; not in this reality anyway. That's an ideal world, and most people who tout socialism believe in this ideal world where everything works perfect and human nature is perfectly serene. This is the real world, and there will always be someone on top. There will always be competition. Always.

Besides, not everyone can be doctors, lawyers, and social workers. There has to be a class that fills factory and production jobs (unless we outsource all of them.. :rolleyes:).
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You almost got the Obama debate technique right. In all of his speeches he criticizes by saying, "There are those who say[we should kill kittens], I say [they are heartless and will want to kill puppies next. We must unite together to stop kitten and puppy killings]." He is never called on this by the media. Weird.
 
Impromptu said:
You almost got the Obama debate technique right. In all of his speeches he criticizes by saying, "There are those who say[we should kill kittens], I say [they are heartless and will want to kill puppies next. We must unite together to stop kitten and puppy killings]." He is never called on this by the media. Weird.
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What? The media is in the tank for BHO and they are not objectively reporting the news?

I would have never guessed. :oops:
 
urge said:
Isn't it funny that the only person endorsing obamacare is Fidel Castro?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032501309.html

If it quacks and has feathers... you don't need DNA testing to know it is a duck.
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Only a blind will ignore it...
So Cuba healthcare:
"State Sponsored Health Care
As previously discussed, while the Cuban government is world-renowned for its free health delivery, the system often does not work the way it was origi- nally designed. This is not due to lack of competent and dedicated practitio- ners, but due to the effects of scarcity, such as electrical outages, outdated equipment, contaminated water and supply shortages. Many supplies “disap- pear” into the black market and mysteriously reappear in time for state inspections. Not only do many health professionals earn more money selling socks or renting rooms to tourists, but there are also individuals who make use of their access to medical supplies to augment their income.
Nevertheless, scientists and public health employees are constantly adapt- ing to their circumstances and coming up with new ways to overcome these problems. On a day-to-day basis, doctors must turn to stop gap solutions, such as substituting sewing thread for suturing thread or prescribing Benadryl instead of Valium. Meanwhile, public health officials search for more long- term approaches."

So who's gonna sell socks???:laugh:
 
2win said:
Dems admit ObamaCare = Socialism
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Oh, absolutely. And he's never tried to disguise that fact. If you read any of Barry's manifestos, aka "memoirs" (I've read neither but been in heated debates with people who have read and been heavily influenced by his political and social philosophy ) , he explicitly endorses a socialist state, a welfare society and the redistribution of wealth.

His mission is to reverse the growing income disparities between the wealthy and the poor, which he believes Reagan created by instituting pro-business and pro-corporation tax policies. He makes no bones about that and this is precisely what the support for his campaign was based on.

Unfortunately, the likes of Limbaugh and Beck solidified Obama's lead in the polls in 2008 by morphing the discussion into a racially-driven one. That unified the minority vote and it became an "us vs. them" battle instead of a debate about whose policies would (particularly in a recession) positively affect the future of the country. And of course the non-minority liberal vote will always go with the intellectual, whether or not his agenda ends up hurting them.

Of course Sarah Barracuda (much as I love her personally) didn't help win the independents either.

Request for 2012: Dear Republicans, can you produce a more centrist CONSERVATIVE candidate with a running mate who at least has some minimum knowledge about government and governance?
 
What gets me is that the economy of the USA was basically destroyed by greedy Wall Street corporations who spat in the face of basic economic principles. Instead of major penalties for the perpetrators, they get 800 billion dollars.

On the other side of the fence are physicians: people who devote their lives to keeping people they barely know alive and healthy. Apparently this profession is nowhere near as valuable as deep-sixing the entire economy, so we therefore deserve a pay-cut.

That dissonance just does not sit well with me. The Merill-Lynches of the world ruined everything, yet we, the healers, are paying for it. This is ******ed.
 
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Substance said:
What gets me is that the economy of the USA was basically destroyed by greedy Wall Street corporations who spat in the face of basic economic principles.
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Wall street just danced to the tune they were played.

It was the government (politicians) that destroyed the economy with The Fed, Fannie, Freddie, bailouts, Keynesianism...

The government gave the banksters the tools so they could take it all.

Politicians screwed the economy. Now they want to screw healthcare.
 
barbosa said:
Denmark have a influx of immigration, from North african, eastern european and asian countries. Read up before making such comments about homogeneity and socioeconomics. People like you go on forums and say: minorities don't contribute to taxes and therefore my life is f**ked up.
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"9 in 10 Danes are full blooded Danes". Also, note how (and this is a fact) homogeneous societies are more willing to tolerate higher taxes and more generous social programs.

See below;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwOkfVerhBU


Also, someone mentioned mass immigration to Denmark. Looks like it's really going well for the Danes.........

http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article638124.ece
 
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Eta Carinae said:
Oh, absolutely. And he's never tried to disguise that fact. If you read any of Barry's manifestos, aka "memoirs" (I've read neither but been in heated debates with people who have read and been heavily influenced by his political and social philosophy ) , he explicitly endorses a socialist state, a welfare society and the redistribution of wealth.

His mission is to reverse the growing income disparities between the wealthy and the poor, which he believes Reagan created by instituting pro-business and pro-corporation tax policies. He makes no bones about that and this is precisely what the support for his campaign was based on.

Unfortunately, the likes of Limbaugh and Beck solidified Obama's lead in the polls in 2008 by morphing the discussion into a racially-driven one. That unified the minority vote and it became an "us vs. them" battle instead of a debate about whose policies would (particularly in a recession) positively affect the future of the country. And of course the non-minority liberal vote will always go with the intellectual, whether or not his agenda ends up hurting them.

Of course Sarah Barracuda (much as I love her personally) didn't help win the independents either.

Request for 2012: Dear Republicans, can you produce a more centrist CONSERVATIVE candidate with a running mate who at least has some minimum knowledge about government and governance?
Click to expand...

Closing income disparities is a great idea. But, you do that by creating opportunities for the masses. Bring lowe income people UP. Don't just redistribute wealth.
 
Narcotized said:
The economy was a debt ridden bubble that had no more chance of surviving than Madoff's ponzi. The real crime is economically ignorant politicians bankrupting the country in a foolhardy attempt to reinflate a bubble (and of course keep their job).

Basic economic principles tried to wipe out greedy Wall Street corporations that were instead rewarded by government with trillions of dollars that we had to print or borrow from foreign nations. This horrendous act of fiscal irresponsibility was sold to the gullible public as brave and courageous to prevent the next Great Depression. From an economical and mathematical point of view Obama is about as stupid (and/or corrupt) as anyone that has ever walked the planet.
Click to expand...

The key to investing is to try and recognize the NEXT bubble. To me, it's not clear yet, what that is (there could be more than one at a time). Then, ride the wave, and sell high, with discipline, well before you get the "feeling" that it's gonna burst.
 
Narcotized said:
From an economical and mathematical point of view Obama is about as stupid (and/or corrupt) as anyone that has ever walked the planet.
Click to expand...

I concur.

Harvard has lost its reputation with Obama.
 
Narcotized said:
The economy was a debt ridden bubble that had no more chance of surviving than Madoff's ponzi. The real crime is economically ignorant politicians bankrupting the country in a foolhardy attempt to reinflate a bubble (and of course keep their job).

Basic economic principles tried to wipe out greedy Wall Street corporations that were instead rewarded by government with trillions of dollars that we had to print or borrow from foreign nations. This horrendous act of fiscal irresponsibility was sold to the gullible public as brave and courageous to prevent the next Great Depression. From an economical and mathematical point of view Obama is about as stupid (and/or corrupt) as anyone that has ever walked the planet.
Click to expand...

I cannot agree that the Wall Street tycoons are absolved of any responsibility for the crash of 2008. A tycoon is not a force of nature that automatically must accumulate money to which we have to create laws and regulations to prevent it from happening. No. Tycoons are human beings, and all human beings have the choice of doing the right thing, or doing the wrong thing. They did the wrong thing, and it was clear as glass how wrong it was from the very beginning. Government let them do this to everyone. Both parties are culpable. Instead, the government is still corrupt, and is rewarding the tycoons by penalizing the useful members of society.

The Obama administration is corrupt. The Bush administration was corrupt. The American public are fools.
 
Substance said:
I cannot agree that the Wall Street tycoons are absolved of any responsibility for the crash of 2008.
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I never said this. What I am saying is the crash was inevitable. Bubbles don't last forever, and without the governments help these Wall Street fatcats couldn't have built such a house of cards. Yes, the public are fools. They think a bubble euphoria is a good thing so they back government efforts to extend the house of cards, such as ridiculously low interest rates and government backed mortgages for people who can't afford them.

Regulation caused a lot of problems. And now people want more regulations to correct the faults of previous regulations. Simple economic principles would have had lenders turning away bad applicants. Who wants to lose money loaning to a deadbeat? Government regulation distorted simple economics to where stupid moves were encouraged. Simple economic principles would let bad companies fail and good ones succeed. Government efforts have completely screwed that up as well.
 
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Narcotized said:
I never said this. What I am saying is the crash was inevitable. Bubbles don't last forever, and without the governments help these Wall Street fatcats couldn't have built such a house of cards. Yes, the public are fools. They think a bubble euphoria is a good thing so they back government efforts to extend the house of cards, such as ridiculously low interest rates and government backed mortgages for people who can't afford them.

Regulation caused a lot of problems. And now people want more regulations to correct the faults of previous regulations. Simple economic principles would have had lenders turning away bad applicants. Who wants to lose money loaning to a deadbeat? Government regulation distorted simple economics to where stupid moves were encouraged. Simple economic principles would let bad companies fail and good ones succeed. Government efforts have completely screwed that up as well.
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Your post is right on. The guy is almost finished.
2win

PS : don't blame to bring up an old thread. This is more actual than I would like to be.
 
Thought I would bump an old thread that was really contentious a couple years back. I re-read some of it and I wonder if any of the pro Obama people have changed their minds or if the anti Obama crowd has changed their opinions.
There were a couple of pre-meds back on pages 3-5 who had pretty strong socialistic opinions. I wonder what they are up to now.
 
If you know the right people you'll never pay the full tax amount. Stop complaining and work around the system like everyone else does. Why do you think the GOP never passed a flat tax when Bush was in office? Because there are so many holes in the tax code that nobody pays the true tax rate, unless you just want to give government money. Also move to Texas, that'll also lower your tax bill.
 
To the Bumper:

I was Obama voter back in the day. To be honest, it was the entry of Sarah Palin that swayed me towards obama rather than me being swept up by his ideas. However, I did think that his focus on insurance reform would be different than what it is today. When he ran he seemed to suggest that he would have focused much more on reforming the system so that physcians were empowered and received money on time for their work at a fair wage. I seem to remember him speaking about how insurances were raising their fees and decreasing compensation.

So as it turns out I'm disapointed and wont be voting for him in the next election. I cant say that i'm very happy about who is running on the GOP; but, I feel like in the end he's passing laws that dont empower physicians.
 
2win said:
i am so pissed off - obama and his suporters will increase our taxes, will decrease our revenue....what can we do about??? I left a former socialist country for the freedom of usa - the greatest country in the world and now i have to face again the same demagogy like - "we are equal" and so on. We are equal in the front of god but here, on this planet we're not! I cannot stop to notice the satisfaction of some hospital personnel when they hear us (the md-s) expressing the concern with the "new era". They feel "equal" and ready to enjoy our tax increase. Really sad! And all this empty talk about norway and other countries is just "opium for the masses". I could go on and on about this subject...i will cut my work hours to stay bellow 250k. The same will do the surgeons. The hospital will have decreased revenue. We'll try to avoid medicare (like they "paid"well before...) but know they'll cut the payments again. A shame!
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bump!!!
It is true now????????
 
Kind of fun to read these really old threads.

pgg in 2009 said:
I'm as thoroughly disgusted by the incompetence of the right as I am by the elected leadership of the left. For the love of god, Palin's still getting press and this Jindal clown is the new annoited one for the GOP. The Democrats are going to sweep the midterm elections too.
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Boy was I wrong about that. :)


Palin's being ignored, Jindal faded, and the Republicans swept the midterms.
 
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