NP education

[thenursingstudent]

I really didn’t know where to put this topic, so I chose this forum.

Backstory: I am a RN and have completed a year of nurse practitioner school. I have changed gears and am now pursuing an MD/DO. I am completing prerequisites.

So I’ve just been finishing up my year of NP school. There’s a lot of things about my education that I consider scary. I am in a school that is ranked in the top 5 in the USA for NP programs.

First, I didn’t need any RN experience to apply and be accepted to my program, which is acute and primary care pediatric nurse practitioner. I didn’t even need any work in pediatrics, nor any shadowing required.

Second, my course books are undergraduate nursing level. The information I am reading is geared for the scope and practice of a registered nurse, not an NP.

Third, everything I do gets a 100. I write an essay-100. I take an exam- curved or earned a 100. I do a physical exam via zoom ( in contrast to in person before covid) -100. There are nurses in my program who don’t work. There are nurses who have 0 years experience to 10+ but it’s the same education for all, and geared toward the experienced nurse.

Ok I’m putting this here not to insult NPs but I have to say I’m shocked at this. And I’m in a program considered to be good! There are programs out there that take you in without any letters of Rec, essays, Gpa, nothing matters just taking them in and churning them out...

For example one of my friends is in a 2 year primary adult-geriatric NP program. She buys the test bank and is dating an NP she said will just sign off her clinical hours whether she goes or not. There is no challenge in NP schools. There is no drive to motivate one to excel like I see with premed and medical schools. This isn’t the main problem, but it’s not helping.

NP education is a real problem! One that I don’t know how one would go about to try to change. I am passionate about nursing and medicine. I am passionate about people having the best health care available to them.

What can be done about this? NPs can fill so many gaps in heath care but their education is horrible. Is it really all learning on the job?

When anyone asks me why I’ve changed my mind from NP, I don’t say this nor do I plan on saying this in any of my medical school interviews and Personal statement essays. But this issue does concern me.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted480308]

Nothing you can do but run for congress. It’s a money grab by the nursing lobby

 

[amestramgram]

We would love to see you on the facebook Group Physicians for Patient Protection. It is the nursing lobby and corporate interests that made it the way it is - it will take sustained lobbying and sustained pressure on the AANP to change things.

 

[Sn00pygrrl]

I really didn’t know where to put this topic, so I chose this forum.

Backstory: I am a RN and have completed a year of nurse practitioner school. I have changed gears and am now pursuing an MD/DO. I am completing prerequisites.

So I’ve just been finishing up my year of NP school. There’s a lot of things about my education that I consider scary. I am in a school that is ranked in the top 5 in the USA for NP programs.

First, I didn’t need any RN experience to apply and be accepted to my program, which is acute and primary care pediatric nurse practitioner. I didn’t even need any work in pediatrics, nor any shadowing required.

Second, my course books are undergraduate nursing level. The information I am reading is geared for the scope and practice of a registered nurse, not an NP.

Third, everything I do gets a 100. I write an essay-100. I take an exam- curved or earned a 100. I do a physical exam via zoom ( in contrast to in person before covid) -100. There are nurses in my program who don’t work. There are nurses who have 0 years experience to 10+ but it’s the same education for all, and geared toward the experienced nurse.

Ok I’m putting this here not to insult NPs but I have to say I’m shocked at this. And I’m in a program considered to be good! There are programs out there that take you in without any letters of Rec, essays, Gpa, nothing matters just taking them in and churning them out...

For example one of my friends is in a 2 year primary adult-geriatric NP program. She buys the test bank and is dating an NP she said will just sign off her clinical hours whether she goes or not. There is no challenge in NP schools. There is no drive to motivate one to excel like I see with premed and medical schools. This isn’t the main problem, but it’s not helping.

As an NP with 7 years experience, this is truly terrifying and unfortunately will only hurt the profession. The inconsistencies/inadequacies of NP education are not why I am trying to leave the profession, but they are a huge concern to those of us who understand the clinical environment and how incredibly unprepared new NPs will be when they graduate from programs like this.

The biggest problem as I see it is $$. Schools of nursing get little federal funding but are expected to supply the largest segment of the healthcare workforce, registered nurses. RNs don't become wealthy donors, usually. Schools of nursing have determined that the best way to ensure their long-term survival is to enroll mass numbers of under-qualified/underprepared individuals to become advanced practice nurses.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yes, the gaps in their knowledge are truly terrifying. I have seen NPs thrive and be extremely helpful and great. Pretty much universally, they have been NPs in subspecialty areas like heme/onc or the NICU where they have a narrow scope and a lot of backup.

Even as an MS2, I have seen general NPs make treatment plans for common conditions that were totally wrong and could have caused real harm. It’s scary.

 

[FutureInternist]

I refuse to “supervise” the NP/PA led teams at my job since your name gets on the chart but its still on them to call you if they need help, yet like Donald Rumsfeld said, there are unknown unknowns and that’s what get you in trouble.

 

[YeOleBoneWiz]

I refuse to “supervise” the NP/PA led teams at my job since your name gets on the chart but its still on them to call you if they need help, yet like Donald Rumsfeld said, there are unknown unknowns and that’s what get you in trouble.

The government you so support is supporting NP autonomy, cognitive dissonance I presume.

 

[FutureInternist]

The government you so support is supporting NP autonomy, cognitive dissonance I presume.

I don’t agree with every policy... you’re thinking of a cult.
I can however choose the lesser of two evils (unfortunately the only choice we have), and take the good with the bad.

 

[YeOleBoneWiz]

I don’t agree with every policy... you’re thinking of a cult.
I can however choose the lesser of two evils (unfortunately the only choice we have), and take the good with the bad.

reasonable response. hopefully more will see the flaws of more government

 

[FutureInternist]

reasonable response. hopefully more will see the flaws of more government

Depends on where it’s acting
Safety and well being of people, by implementing safety standards, limiting discrimination, workers rights, keeping companies accountable etc, I’m good with that.

Pawning off a substandard product as “just as good”, not so much.

 

[YeOleBoneWiz]

Depends on where it’s acting
Safety and well being of people, by implementing safety standards, limiting discrimination, workers rights, keeping companies accountable etc, I’m good with that.

Pawning off a substandard product as “just as good”, not so much.

let us not forget personal responsibility. I think people themselves are more danger to themselves than any company can be.

 

[deleted480308]

Depends on where it’s acting
Safety and well being of people, by implementing safety standards, limiting discrimination, workers rights, keeping companies accountable etc, I’m good with that.

Pawning off a substandard product as “just as good”, not so much.

A number of those are manipulated cliches and slogans

 

[FutureInternist]

let us not forget personal responsibility. I think people themselves are more danger to themselves than any company can be.

No denying that personal responsibility plays a huge role, but companies can (and do) cause massive damage to many many people, at the same time, and mostly get away with it (either completely or with a nominal fine that is worked into their “cost of doing business”).

The need for OSHA came about due to companies putting workers health at risk, while chasing the great white whale of bigger profits.

Ford (ignition switches), Amazon (lack of PPE in COVID), PG&E (fires in California), oil companies and the pollution they cause, etc etc etc

 

[YeOleBoneWiz]

No denying that personal responsibility plays a huge role, but companies can (and do) cause massive damage to many many people, at the same time, and mostly get away with it (either completely or with a nominal fine that is worked into their “cost of doing business”).

The need for OSHA came about due to companies putting workers health at risk, while chasing the great white whale of bigger profits.

Ford (ignition switches), Amazon (lack of PPE in COVID), PG&E (fires in California), oil companies and the pollution they cause, etc etc etc

Yeah, ever one needs accountability. There seems to be much lacking in this in the field of personal responsibility now in 2020 though. If i remember correctly the top causes of death for most age ranges are either genetic or things more likely to be caused by individual idiocracy

 

[FutureInternist]

 

[Splenda88]

Finish your NP... I know it's scary but you are going to make 6-figure salary while playing doctor with your long white coat... On top of that, you won't have 300k+ in student loan.

 

[Splenda88]

I really didn’t know where to put this topic, so I chose this forum.

Backstory: I am a RN and have completed a year of nurse practitioner school. I have changed gears and am now pursuing an MD/DO. I am completing prerequisites.

So I’ve just been finishing up my year of NP school. There’s a lot of things about my education that I consider scary. I am in a school that is ranked in the top 5 in the USA for NP programs.

First, I didn’t need any RN experience to apply and be accepted to my program, which is acute and primary care pediatric nurse practitioner. I didn’t even need any work in pediatrics, nor any shadowing required.

Second, my course books are undergraduate nursing level. The information I am reading is geared for the scope and practice of a registered nurse, not an NP.

Third, everything I do gets a 100. I write an essay-100. I take an exam- curved or earned a 100. I do a physical exam via zoom ( in contrast to in person before covid) -100. There are nurses in my program who don’t work. There are nurses who have 0 years experience to 10+ but it’s the same education for all, and geared toward the experienced nurse.

Ok I’m putting this here not to insult NPs but I have to say I’m shocked at this. And I’m in a program considered to be good! There are programs out there that take you in without any letters of Rec, essays, Gpa, nothing matters just taking them in and churning them out...

For example one of my friends is in a 2 year primary adult-geriatric NP program. She buys the test bank and is dating an NP she said will just sign off her clinical hours whether she goes or not. There is no challenge in NP schools. There is no drive to motivate one to excel like I see with premed and medical schools. This isn’t the main problem, but it’s not helping.

NP education is a real problem! One that I don’t know how one would go about to try to change. I am passionate about nursing and medicine. I am passionate about people having the best health care available to them.

What can be done about this? NPs can fill so many gaps in heath care but their education is horrible. Is it really all learning on the job?

When anyone asks me why I’ve changed my mind from NP, I don’t say this nor do I plan on saying this in any of my medical school interviews and Personal statement essays. But this issue does concern me.

Welcome to the world of corporate medicine!