Now, even the *chaplains* are dressing up as doctors

[ZincFingers]

(see attachment)

First, it was the NPs who decided to dress up as doctors and not correct patients when addressed as "doctor." Well, they are kind-of doctors (especially these days with the DNP) so at least that kind of made sense.

Then, it was all the nurse "specialists" such as care coordinators, care managers and nurse educators who started doing the same... i.e. every nurse except the poor regular R.N.s who still deign to actually take care of patients.

And now, the freakin' chaplains?? You have got to be kidding me! What gives?

It doesn't even make sense. If I want someone to give last rites to my grandma, I want to see someone in a black shirt and clerical collar, not yet another doctor-wannabe in the white coat and pager. I mean, come ON.

The only people who don't have white coats with an alphabet soup of letters after their names these days -- are attending physicians... (fwiw, i never wear my own short white coat of shame unless someone gets in my face and requires it)

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[johnsmith777]

at my med school, you can tell who the attending doctors are because they are the only ones NOT wearing white coats.

everybody knows that nurses, pa's etc... are all wanna-be doctors that couldn't get into med school but aren't fooling anyone.

just don't wear your white coat, wear a nice custom-made dress shirt and tie and everyone will know that you are the HNIC.

 

[bjackrian]

An administrator at one of my hospitals asked me why I wasn't wearing a white coat. I told him I didn't like it and that it seemed unnecessary. He asked me if I was going to wear one when I'm a real doctor "or how will everyone know that you're their doctor?" Me: "I'll walk into the room and say, 'Hi, I'm Dr. Bjackrian. I'm your doctor." He wasn't quite sure what to do with that.

 

[Man In White]

My intern carried the code pager for our team today and when we responded, we found a man in a white coat doing chest compressions. We assumed it was the code team attending or the CCU attending. But as we stood there and watched as nothing really happened as it should have we realized he was an NP. No one had bothered to ask - sigh.

 

[tacrum43]

(fwiw, i never wear my own short white coat of shame unless someone gets in my face and requires it)

The other day I had a pulmonology fellow ask me in the elevator where the resident conference was. But as he was doing this, he quite blantantly looked at my coat length (or else my butt), and was like "Oh, are you a med student? Never mind."

 

[souljah1]

I can assure you that when you actually become a real doctor you won't care about trivial crap like this anymore.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

The other day I had a pulmonology fellow ask me in the elevator where the resident conference was. But as he was doing this, he quite blantantly looked at my coat length (or else my butt), and was like "Oh, are you a med student? Never mind."

We had a patient a while ago, and this pt's nurse was hammer paging my intern. I went down to check on the pt and check in with said nurse and see what was going on. I was in the patient's room and the nurse came in - "are you the resident, it's about time!!". When he realized I was a student he said "oh...you're a med student" then ignored me, walked into the hall, and paged my intern again.

Patient was totally fine by the way. Nurse wanted permission to hold a lasix dose b/c the BP was "down" (at about 110 systolic).

 

[justtesting]

We had a patient a while ago, and this pt's nurse was hammer paging my intern. I went down to check on the pt and check in with said nurse and see what was going on. I was in the patient's room and the nurse came in - "are you the resident, it's about time!!". When he realized I was a student he said "oh...you're a med student" then ignored me, walked into the hall, and paged my intern again.

Patient was totally fine by the way. Nurse wanted permission to hold a lasix dose b/c the BP was "down" (at about 110 systolic).

At my hospital there is a guy who goes around to take meal orders from the patients and he wears a full length white lab coat. Now that's disturbing.

 

[basupran]

At my hospital, we have a program for high school students looking to become nurses/doctors/respiratory therapists/physical therapists. They are given LONG white-coats and a stethoscope to wear around their neck. I love being a med student.

 

[Its_MurDAH]

ive seen a guy in air force ones, a doo-rag, a pager, and a long white coat.
he was a patient transporter.

f*ck med school.

and btw the "oh you are just a med student" line has been drilled into me several times over the past year. I get furious every time I hear it. I'm paying something like 300 dollars a day to get treated like ****, I love it. But i guess that's how it goes...

 

[johnsmith777]

take comfort in knowing that pretty soon you will be the boss and can **** on all the posers trying to pretend they are doctors.

i am going to be the kind of doctor that says to people in rounds, "if you're not an MD i don't care what you have to say."

yes i will be a huge ass and do not care. my time is coming soon

 

[stefanlukic]

i am going to be the kind of doctor that says to people in rounds, "if you're not an MD i don't care what you have to say."

Aren't you forgetting about medical students, they are not MDs.
And I am quite sure you'll want to hear what lawyers want to say...

 

[indo]

Body language is usually what I notice between the long coat-wearers.

At our main hospital the food service staff has the same white coats as the medical students. The differences are that the med students have dirty pockets and the food service staff have tattoos on their necks.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

I can assure you that when you actually become a real doctor you won't care about trivial crap like this anymore.

+1

I imagine scientists were livid when physicians started wearing lab coats when they rounded, presumably implying to their patients that they held a more esteemed place in the hierarchy than just a doc.

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

take comfort in knowing that pretty soon you will be the boss and can **** on all the posers trying to pretend they are doctors.

i am going to be the kind of doctor that says to people in rounds, "if you're not an MD i don't care what you have to say."

yes i will be a huge ass and do not care. my time is coming soon

I would rethink this approach...

 

[Squiggy]

Have you guys ever read Dr. Seuss' (oops he's not a real doctor either ) story "The Sneetches"? Everyone wants to be like the star-belly Sneetches.

If you want to distinguish yourself from other people again you should change your uniform/symbol. Everyone can wear a white coat these days. If you don't want others to be able to look like you, you've got to get something other's can get. Maybe wear lots of bling or something that the midlevels and other hospital workers can't afford.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Have you guys ever read Dr. Seuss' (oops he's not a real doctor either ) story "The Sneetches"? Everyone wants to be like the star-belly Sneetches.

If you want to distinguish yourself from other people again you should change your uniform/symbol. Everyone can wear a white coat these days. If you don't want others to be able to look like you, you've got to get something other's can get. Maybe wear lots of bling or something that the midlevels and other hospital workers can't afford.

Why do you think attendings have started wearing gray or blue coats? It's not because they're pretty.

I also find this trend reprehensible. What the hell man? Where are the "white coats carry bacteria" nazis when you need them?

 

[group_theory]

You guys haven't been inside a department store lately, have you?

The cosmetic/perfume salesmen/saleswomen are also wearing loan white coats

 

[JeffLebowski]

You guys haven't been inside a department store lately, have you?

The cosmetic/perfume salesmen/saleswomen are also wearing loan white coats

Oh come on, we're not saying no one can wear anything like what we wear in any setting. No one's going to confuse a perfume salesman or a butcher for a doctor stop muddying the waters. It's about being less confusing for the patients (especially when there's really no good reason beyond self-esteem for nurses and physical therapists and chaplains and whoever else to be wearing them) and yeah, part of the "uniform" of a physician.

 

[jake2]

Oh come on, we're not saying no one can wear anything like what we wear in any setting. No one's going to confuse a perfume salesman or a butcher for a doctor stop muddying the waters. It's about being less confusing for the patients (especially when there's really no good reason beyond self-esteem for nurses and physical therapists and chaplains and whoever else to be wearing them) and yeah, part of the "uniform" of a physician.

Wow. That's really well put. Agreed (no sarcasm intended).

I didn't care much until one day I confused a nursing student in a long white coat for an ID fellow. The story of the NP inadvertently running a code also scares me. The point of a uniform is to be able to separate groups of people at a glance. With everyone and their mom wearing a white coat, there is really no point in physicians wearing one at all... except of course for surgery intern scut monkeys who need the pockets.

 

[stefanlukic]

Hospitals are like army bases.
Everyone needs to know his/her own place in the hierarchy.
What would happen if a private wore a general's or a colonel's uniform.
He would get court-martialed.
And what if you had a private dress up as a colonel or some other high ranking officer in the middle of a war and start giving out orders which are contrary to the battle plan.
Everyone would get killed.
And the Hospitals and Medicine are battlefields with great battle plans so when you have a private (nurse, orderly, chaplain) dressed like a commanding officer (white coat i.e. doctor) you are only confusing people and confusion isn't a good thing in the heat of the battle (code) so someone will really get hurt.

 

[ZincFingers]

I know that it's politically incorrect for a doctor or doctor-to-be to want his or her identifying uniform, and I know it is easy to feel morally superior by lecturing others how dressing up as a doctor doesn't matter.

But the thing is, it does matter. How do I know? Because everybody else wants to look like a doctor too. That's the whole point. They want the respect from patients that looking like a doctor garners, without actually earning it.

So now, the only people who do NOT wear white coats in the hospital are the people who serve useful roles in patient care, at least at my place. 1) Attendings 2) Real, bedside nurses 3) Social workers 4) Janitors. Yes, one good janitor is more useful than 10 "nurse clinical coordinators"!

Everybody else dresses in the white coats. Residents, because they're forced to. Everybody else, because they want to be mistaken for a doctor.

One department has a new policy where the attendings now dress in business suits. How long before the useless mouths start wearing three-piece suits to work too?

 

[JeffLebowski]

I know that it's politically incorrect for a doctor or doctor-to-be to want his or her identifying uniform, and I know it is easy to feel morally superior by lecturing others how dressing up as a doctor doesn't matter.

But the thing is, it does matter. How do I know? Because everybody else wants to look like a doctor too. That's the whole point. They want the respect from patients that looking like a doctor garners, without actually earning it.

So now, the only people who do NOT wear white coats in the hospital are the people who serve useful roles in patient care, at least at my place. 1) Attendings 2) Real, bedside nurses 3) Social workers 4) Janitors. Yes, one good janitor is more useful than 10 "nurse clinical coordinators"!

Everybody else dresses in the white coats. Residents, because they're forced to. Everybody else, because they want to be mistaken for a doctor.

One department has a new policy where the attendings now dress in business suits. How long before the useless mouths start wearing three-piece suits to work too?

They won't. They'd be equally likely to be confused for a lowly drug rep, which would defeat the purpose for them. The white coat has long been established = doctor, they'll ride out that confusion as long as possible (while claiming "what's the big deal why are you so elitist") until finally they've ruined its connotation as = doctor. After that, it's possible they're jump on the blue or gray coats that many attendings have started to wear, but who knows.

On the silver lining side of things, let me just say that stuff like this really makes me appreciate good nurses. You know the ones I mean. The ones who seem on the ball, are honest and normal people, speak friendly to you, help you without a fuss and who you'd be happy to help without a fuss. The ones whose opinions you value because you know they're good at their job and they give good care and they have a sharp eye. The ones who don't waddle around the ward b**ching about patients and doctors and the cafeteria and everyone else in the hospital, only to bustle up to the nursing station with their white coat swishing around them and plop their plump asses on a chair for an hour "charting" and squatting on 3 patient charts and taking up computers and gabbing away drinking their diet soda cramming pizza down their gullet complaining about how stupid & insensitive doctors are. The problem is that the really good nurses are probably a minority, and the ones described above probably think they're "good". Either that, or they have the whole "I've been around for YEARS and I know hospitals and I know how to take care of patients so I don't give a crap what anyone thinks" attitude. God bless the truly good nurses....if only because the alternative is so appalling.

 

[zenman]

I can assure you that when you actually become a real doctor you won't care about trivial crap like this anymore.

Back in the late 60s during high school I worked behind the meat counter at a local grocery store. The butcher wore a white coat. Was he a surgeon? I never heard anyone complain about him wearing a white coat.

 

[jake2]

I know that it's politically incorrect for a doctor or doctor-to-be to want his or her identifying uniform, and I know it is easy to feel morally superior by lecturing others how dressing up as a doctor doesn't matter.

But the thing is, it does matter. How do I know? Because everybody else wants to look like a doctor too. That's the whole point. They want the respect from patients that looking like a doctor garners, without actually earning it.

So now, the only people who do NOT wear white coats in the hospital are the people who serve useful roles in patient care, at least at my place. 1) Attendings 2) Real, bedside nurses 3) Social workers 4) Janitors. Yes, one good janitor is more useful than 10 "nurse clinical coordinators"!

Everybody else dresses in the white coats. Residents, because they're forced to. Everybody else, because they want to be mistaken for a doctor.

One department has a new policy where the attendings now dress in business suits. How long before the useless mouths start wearing three-piece suits to work too?

Right there with you. On the one hand, I feel like a superficial dick who should be studying or doing something else productive for complaining about it, but come on. It's a uniform for the job I do and it's annoying to see other people who aren't doing that job wearing it.

Hell, I think being a firefighter or soldier would be badass. You don't see me walking around in fatigues around the VA to feel cooler hoping people will mistake me for an army ranger though, but that does give me an idea...

PS. O, and I don't bet that butcher didn't walk around a hospital hoping anyone would confuse him for a surgeon when he put on that coat.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Back in the late 60s during high school I worked behind the meat counter at a local grocery store. The butcher wore a white coat. Was he a surgeon? I never heard anyone complain about him wearing a white coat.

If he wore it in a hospital and participated in the care of patients, you would. That's confusing.

Likewise, I don't wear my white coat in the grocery store and hang around the meat section. Why would I? Isn't it a totally unnecessary invitation for trouble and confusion?

And I notice you didn't add that you yourself wore a white coat, even though you worked in a meat department behind the counter. You want to know why you didn't? Because frankly, it was unnecessary for your job, it would have suggested to patrons that you were the butcher, and you probably had no insecurity about your position relative to the butcher's.

 

[TrapperJohnMD]

The quick way for me to ID the different white coat wearers (at least at my institution is, like someone mentioned, the alphabet soup on their coat & if its perfectly pressed, glowing white and pristine (non-MD) or worn in and dingy (MD)

The alphabet soup and verbiage on the coat cracks my ***** up though.

EXAMPLE:

Jane/Joe Smith, RN, MS, MPH, CCCN, CRNA
Certified Advance Practice
Clincal Coordinating Nurse
Anesthesia Critical Care Specialist,
Licensed & Registered

If its over 2 letters (MD), maybe Ph.D too, or more than 2 lines on the coat aka:

Jane Smith, MD
Dept of Surgery

then I just assume they are not physicians --but as others have said, patients dont.

 

[zenman]

If he wore it in a hospital and participated in the care of patients, you would. That's confusing.

Likewise, I don't wear my white coat in the grocery store and hang around the meat section. Why would I? Isn't it a totally unnecessary invitation for trouble and confusion?

And I notice you didn't add that you yourself wore a white coat, even though you worked in a meat department behind the counter. You want to know why you didn't? Because frankly, it was unnecessary for your job, it would have suggested to patrons that you were the butcher, and you probably had no insecurity about your position relative to the butcher's.

No white coat, even to this day. He cut the meat, I wrapped it. Oh, I also cooked the best bar-b-que chicken, ribs and hotlinks.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

The quick way for me to ID the different white coat wearers (at least at my institution is, like someone mentioned, the alphabet soup on their coat & if its perfectly pressed, glowing white and pristine (non-MD) or worn in and dingy (MD)

The alphabet soup and verbiage on the coat cracks my ***** up though.

EXAMPLE:

Jane/Joe Smith, RN, MS, MPH, CCCN, CRNA
Certified Advance Practice
Clincal Coordinating Nurse
Anesthesia Critical Care Specialist,
Licensed & Registered

If its over 2 letters (MD), maybe Ph.D too, or more than 2 lines on the coat aka:

Jane Smith, MD
Dept of Surgery

then I just assume they are not physicians --but as others have said, patients dont.

I love that - my favorite is when they even put "BSN" on their label. You don't see me putting "B.A." next to my name

 

[JeffLebowski]

No white coat, even to this day. He cut the meat, I wrapped it. Oh, I also cooked the best bar-b-que chicken, ribs and hotlinks.

Cool. So we agree that the point you tried to make in your post was ridiculous.

 

[Trismegistus4]

I know that it's politically incorrect for a doctor or doctor-to-be to want his or her identifying uniform, and I know it is easy to feel morally superior by lecturing others how dressing up as a doctor doesn't matter.

But the thing is, it does matter. How do I know? Because everybody else wants to look like a doctor too. That's the whole point. They want the respect from patients that looking like a doctor garners, without actually earning it.

I agree with you, and I hate the fact that so many attendings no longer wear the white coat. Doctors are the only profession out there who just roll over and take it from everyone else. It's like they're saying "oh, we AGREE with you, nurses, PTs, OTs, RTs, ultrasound techs, lawyers, the media... doctors aren't special and don't deserve respect! Here, let us get out of your way!"

I certainly plan to wear my white coat when I am an attending.

They won't. They'd be equally likely to be confused for a lowly drug rep, which would defeat the purpose for them. The white coat has long been established = doctor, they'll ride out that confusion as long as possible (while claiming "what's the big deal why are you so elitist") until finally they've ruined its connotation as = doctor. After that, it's possible they're jump on the blue or gray coats that many attendings have started to wear, but who knows.

This reminds me of a point MacGyver once made around here: imagine that a hospital instituted a policy that physicians MUST wear blue coats, and everyone else in the hospital could wear whatever color coat they wanted. How long do you think it would be before nurses started wearing blue coats?

 

[rockit]

On the silver lining side of things, let me just say that stuff like this really makes me appreciate good nurses. You know the ones I mean. The ones who seem on the ball, are honest and normal people, speak friendly to you, help you without a fuss and who you'd be happy to help without a fuss. The ones whose opinions you value because you know they're good at their job and they give good care and they have a sharp eye. The ones who don't waddle around the ward b**ching about patients and doctors and the cafeteria and everyone else in the hospital, only to bustle up to the nursing station with their white coat swishing around them and plop their plump asses on a chair for an hour "charting" and squatting on 3 patient charts and taking up computers and gabbing away drinking their diet soda cramming pizza down their gullet complaining about how stupid & insensitive doctors are. The problem is that the really good nurses are probably a minority, and the ones described above probably think they're "good". Either that, or they have the whole "I've been around for YEARS and I know hospitals and I know how to take care of patients so I don't give a crap what anyone thinks" attitude. God bless the truly good nurses....if only because the alternative is so appalling.

I've been told by a private attending, "You can never overpay a great nurse and you can never pay enough to get rid of a bad one."

 

[zenman]

Cool. So we agree that the point you tried to make in your post was ridiculous.

No, I was being a smarta**. Everyone under the sun, since time began, has been wearing a white coat. Who really cares since you can't tell who anyone else is in the hospital anyway.

I liked Hawaii. The docs and hospital admin wore the most expensive Hawaiian shirts while everyone else wore scrubs or some type of uniform.

 

[JeffLebowski]

No, I was being a smarta**. Everyone under the sun, since time began, has been wearing a white coat. Who really cares since you can't tell who anyone else is in the hospital anyway.

I liked Hawaii. The docs and hospital admin wore the most expensive Hawaiian shirts while everyone else wore scrubs or some type of uniform.

We used to be able to tell. You know how? Doctors wore a white coat, no one else involved in patient care did. You know how I know that? Because everyone in the public equated "white coat = doctor". And now that other healthcare professionals have taken advantage of the esteem it provides by virtue of that public perception, it has been perverted so that yes, you're right, "you can't tell who anyone else is in the hospital anyway." But historically, doctors were known for their white coats. I can't believe I have to tell people this, when everyone and their mother knows it, stop playing stupid. If you were to go ask some joe shmoe on the street 15 years ago, "hey who works in a hospital and wears a white coat" they'd say "doctor" every time. Nowadays, you're going to get a wide range of answers because now everyone's started to catch on that gosh that guy who came in to clean my bedpan was wearing a white coat, gosh that nurse who helped me fill out my dialysis paperwork wore a white coat, gosh that janitor who came to collect the garbage was wearing a white coat so now that recognition that "oh, this person is a doctor and is directing my care" is gone, all because some insecure people felt entitled to do something selfish to elevate themselves.

 

[smq123]

I agree with you, and I hate the fact that so many attendings no longer wear the white coat. Doctors are the only profession out there who just roll over and take it from everyone else. It's like they're saying "oh, we AGREE with you, nurses, PTs, OTs, RTs, ultrasound techs, lawyers, the media... doctors aren't special and don't deserve respect! Here, let us get out of your way!"

I certainly plan to wear my white coat when I am an attending.

Really? You LIKE the white coat?

I hate wearing a white coat. It's like wearing a petri dish that happens to cover most of your body surface - it's like a MRSA magnet. The sleeves drag down into everything. The edges get kind of grey-ish. The pockets snag on constantly. And it's heavy. As a third year, your pockets get loaded up with everything, and it makes your neck hurt at the end of the day.

I love the rotations that I can ditch my white coat.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Really? You LIKE the white coat?

I hate wearing a white coat. It's like wearing a petri dish that happens to cover most of your body surface - it's like a MRSA magnet. The sleeves drag down into everything. The edges get kind of grey-ish. The pockets snag on constantly. And it's heavy. As a third year, your pockets get loaded up with everything, and it makes your neck hurt at the end of the day.

I love the rotations that I can ditch my white coat.

Yeah, but as a guy, we wear neckties, and a buttoned white coat helps keep it out of patients' faces. And it has a lot of pockets for all the stuff we need to carry. Personally, I don't know how people manage without those pockets.

 

[smq123]

Yeah, but as a guy, we wear neckties, and a buttoned white coat helps keep it out of patients' faces. And it has a lot of pockets for all the stuff we need to carry. Personally, I don't know how people manage without those pockets.

Don't tie clips do the same thing? Or, you could always go REAL old school and wear a bowtie.

And as for the pockets - to be honest, I would do away with the stuff that weighs me down the most. Right now I have a cell phone AND a PDA, which is a pain...if I could upgrade to a smart phone, then I would just carry a cell phone on my waistband. That would also help me get rid of Sanford, too. I don't carry Tarascon. Most of the stuff in Maxwell's can be found in a PDA friendly format online (or you can make your own if you're reasonably technologically savvy), although Maxwell's certainly doesn't take up that much room either.

The only time that I really found the white coat to be REALLY useful was during pre-rounding on surgery, just so I could carry bandage scissors, 4x4s, and tape with me. Even then, though, I probably could have figured out a way to get by without a white coat if I really had to.

 

[jake2]

The white coat serves two real functions. 1) Uniform. 2) It has a lot of pockets. The latter is really only important for some fields. So, for the vast majority of docs, it's really just a uniform worn by convention.

Due to the prevalence of white coats amongst nurses, phlebotimists, techs, janitors, and now apparently chaplains, the uniform is now essentially useless. Thus, many if not most attendings now forgo it.

Why the irritation at the loss of a uniform? Well, first, uniforms are useful in a place with a lot of emergencies where telling people apart quickly can be important. And, perhaps more honestly, it's just plain annoying when people screw with a system that's worked well for a long time and with tradition because it helps their ego.

Personally, I'll keep wearing a white coat because of reason #2. I like wearing scrubs rather than shirt and tie, and without real pants, need the pockets. But yeah, if I worked in a place where scrubs weren't appropriate (outpatient clinic let's say) and had some control over my own attire, I'd probably just wear a comfortable shirt with no tie and khaki pants, no white coat. I would wear a white if I knew it would let other people know I was a doc easily, but since it doesn't, why bother?

And yeah, I encourage those who do wear a white coat, to keep several to minimize MRSA contamination between laundry days. I have 6. Perhaps excessive, but I get a bit neurotic about nosocomial infection stuff.

 

[Trismegistus4]

I hate wearing a white coat. It's like wearing a petri dish that happens to cover most of your body surface - it's like a MRSA magnet.

That's just an excuse used by medical students and lazy slobs who no longer have any respect for the profession who just want to dress in casual clothes because they're more comfortable.

Due to the prevalence of white coats amongst nurses, phlebotimists, techs, janitors, and now apparently chaplains, the uniform is now essentially useless. Thus, many if not most attendings now forgo it.

They when are the nurses, phlebotomists, et al still wearing it? Because it still has the doctor connotation. As JeffLebowski said earlier, they're still riding out the confusion. The public still thinks "white coat = doctor" enough that it's worth it to non-doctors to wear it. So why aren't attendings wearing it? Not, as you say, because it's become meaningless, but because they're limp-wristed liberal pushovers who don't think doctors deserve any respect and think it's haughty and arrogant, and hearkens back to the bad old days when medicine was patriarchal and paternalistic, for them to wear white coats.

 

[smq123]

That's just an excuse used by medical students and lazy slobs who no longer have any respect for the profession who just want to dress in casual clothes because they're more comfortable.

Not, as you say, because it's become meaningless, but because they're limp-wristed liberal pushovers who don't think doctors deserve any respect and think it's haughty and arrogant, and hearkens back to the bad old days when medicine was patriarchal and paternalistic, for them to wear white coats.

Your loud-mouthed assertions that all doctors ditch the white coat because they're "limp-wristed liberal pushovers" is pretty grandiose talk, especially for someone who has yet to survive a 16 hour work day while lugging that thing around.

I would hardly consider dress clothes to be any more "comfortable" without the white coat than with it. Scrubs have utility, but aren't particularly comfortable for me (particularly the tops).

And I would think that working hard to cement a good knowledge base, and actually learning things that would be useful in good patient care (as opposed to being so obsessed with symbols and "prestige") would demonstrate MORE respect for the profession than a dirty white coat ever could.

 

[DannMann99]

For everyone who thinks this is a stupid argument, marketing goes a long way...

Personally the arguement doesn't bother me too much, as long as their a productive member of the team I say let them wear whatever they want if it will shut them up/make them feel warm inside.

People will know I'm the doctor when I walk in the room and check them out.

 

[78222]

I think it's sad that the most important symbol of a physician has been hijacked by every Joe GED who works in the hospital. I can't even tell who is a physician and who is a "Diabetic Counselor" or "Doctor of Sanitation Engineering". Most of the time the part of the coat with someones credentials is obscured by a name tag.
Physicians as a group have done a piss poor job of protecting the profession of medicine. Everyone calls themselves a doctor these days and everyone wears a white coat. While it might not matter much to us, the patient is left completely clueless and we end up being tarnished by things non-MDs do in the clinical settings.

 

[smq123]

I think it's sad that the most important symbol of a physician has been hijacked by every Joe GED who works in the hospital. I can't even tell who is a physician and who is a "Diabetic Counselor" or "Doctor of Sanitation Engineering". Most of the time the part of the coat with someones credentials is obscured by a name tag.
Physicians as a group have done a piss poor job of protecting the profession of medicine. Everyone calls themselves a doctor these days and everyone wears a white coat. While it might not matter much to us, the patient is left completely clueless and we end up being tarnished by things non-MDs do in the clinical settings.

But why is the white coat the "most important symbol of a physician"?

What makes physicians different from other members of the healthcare team is a) the knowledge base, b) the skill set, and c) the level of responsibility that we have towards the patient. That's something that isn't represented by a white coat, a headlamp, or a stethoscope.

And what exactly do you mean "tarnished" by things non-MDs do in clinical settings?

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Personally, I think we should all walk around with staffs, like Gandalf, to identify ourselves as doctors. Or Wizard hats...they're much cooler than white coats.

 

[smq123]

Or Wizard hats...they're much cooler than white coats.

Nahhh....too hard to keep clean. They'd probably need to be dry-cleaned, which, on a resident's salary, is just asking too much.

Tiaras...now THAT'S an idea.

 

[87138]

Back in the late 60s during high school I worked behind the meat counter at a local grocery store. The butcher wore a white coat. Was he a surgeon? I never heard anyone complain about him wearing a white coat.

Was this grocery store in the hospital?

What part of this don't you get?

 

[FutureInternist]

Personally, I think we should all walk around with staffs, like Gandalf, to identify ourselves as doctors.

Sorry Dr. Smith, I can't come in today......I'm waxing my staff

 

[78222]

But why is the white coat the "most important symbol of a physician"?

What makes physicians different from other members of the healthcare team is a) the knowledge base, b) the skill set, and c) the level of responsibility that we have towards the patient. That's something that isn't represented by a white coat, a headlamp, or a stethoscope.

And what exactly do you mean "tarnished" by things non-MDs do in clinical settings?

It's the most important because it's what the public has identified with "Doctor" for over 100 years. Symbolism is important to people, it's why the pope still wears the pointy hat. The white coat is meant to show the patient that person telling them about their health has been trained to do so and isn't just some quack. Of course, to us, the white coat isn't what defines a physicians abilities or the differences between the physician and mid levels. However, to the pt who doesn't know what DPN, PA, or the plethora or acronyms we use in the hospital setting means, White Coat = Doctor.

What I meant is that because to most people equate white coat with doctor, anytime some low/mid level practitioner wearing a white coat does something stupid, a good deal of people with think "oh that stupid doctor".

 

[smq123]

It's the most important because it's what the public has identified with "Doctor" for over 100 years.

So doctors have traditionally worn white coats. Doctors were also traditionally white males. Maybe some traditions aren't bulletproof.

The white coat is meant to show the patient that person telling them about their health has been trained to do so and isn't just some quack.

If the white coat is meant to indicate "expertise," then why do interns wear long white coats? Do you really think that an intern in June knows THAT MUCH MORE than a CRNP with 25 years of experience does?

If the white coat is truly meant to indicate that that person is a "trained professional," then we'd have gradations of white coats, reserving the long white coat for attendings only.

However, to the pt who doesn't know what DPN, PA, or the plethora or acronyms we use in the hospital setting means, White Coat = Doctor.

Oh, psssh. That's a bunch of bull.

I wear a white coat. I've had people ask me how I like nursing school.

My older sister is an attending, and wears a long white coat. She has patients every week who call the male nurse "doctor," and call her "nurse."

One of the residents at my hospital is a black male. I remember once when he was standing in the room, wearing a white coat, alongside a (Caucasian) male nurse, who was wearing only scrubs. The patient kept referring to the nurse as the "doctor," until the nurse pointed out that "the black guy" was actually the MD in the room.

Whether or not you wear a white coat, people will have their own ideas of what doctors are. The white coat often doesn't make a difference in how people perceive you, so why attach that much importance to it?

What I meant is that because to most people equate white coat with doctor, anytime some low/mid level practitioner wearing a white coat does something stupid, a good deal of people with think "oh that stupid doctor".

Yeah, because med students never do something idiotic, and interns always have great bedside manners.

And couldn't the reverse be true as well? What if a mid-level practitioner, wearing a white coat, does something GREAT for the patient - comforts them, explains their treatment plan to them clearly, notices an alarming change in the patient's mental status?

 

[fahimaz7]

I work in a hospital at the moment and I wear a white coat every single day. Why? We are reqiured to dress well (Khaki, dress shoes, and a dress shirt) and I don't want to get blood, urine, or anything else on me that I might run in to.

What do I do? I'm the lab coordinator for a phase 1/2 clinical cancer research unit. On a daily basis, I deal with 100's of blood filled tubes that have to be processed and aliquoted to be sent off for PK's and PD's.

Does it take away from the profession? Hell no! Doctors are very well recognized in our hospital.. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think any of them care what other people in the hospital are wearing. The only people that have these conversations are the people on SDN.



MD'2013.

PS. Where I am working, the "mid-level practitioners" are the ones that are explaining what the doctor just said. We all need a slice of humble pie.