New mom sues medical licensing board

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On a philosophical level I totally oppose giving people special accomodations for these tests. I think I have more of an issue w/ the special accomodations for ADD than her breast feeding. Honestly if you cant control your ADD w/ medication for an exam, how the hell are you going to control it on the wards?

Did anyone else notice that she called her significant other on her blog her 'partner.' So I am assuming that she is gay. That means her pregnancies had to be very planned out and couldnt have just been an accident. Perhaps better foresight should have been in order or maybe her partner could have carried the baby since she would be nursing during school.

(Of course this last part could be way off: it could be that her boyfriend is just too ashamed of her to let her call him her boyfriend)

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Did anyone else notice that she called her significant other on her blog her 'partner.' So I am assuming that she is gay.
(Of course this last part could be way off: it could be that her boyfriend is just too ashamed of her to let her call him her boyfriend)

Gay. Boyfriend and she thought "partner" sounded better since they were having kids. Essentially a husband without the marriage part. I knew some people who lived together for something like 15 years before they finally tied the knot. And another guy I know refers to his "partner" - a woman that he lives with and sleeps with and does all the married things with, but isn't officially his wife.
 
In reference to Medical Editor's post: No one is asking Ms. Currier to go all day without pumping (no one reasonable, that is). She has misrepresented the structure of the test and her story in an effort to curry favor, IMHO.

The NBME is asking her to take the exam in 4 hr blocks (plus breaks) over a period of two days. To accuse the NBME of not being sensitive to parents or people with ADHD is ridiculous...she has already been given this concession which others have not.

This is about a physician who poorly planned the date of her first attempt at the exam, failed the exam (which is infrequently done) and is faced with not being able to start her residency unless she passes. She appears to me and many others (if you read the responses on her blog those that disagree with her outweigh the supporters) to be using her disability and her current CHOICE to deliver a child and breastfeed during this period as excuses why she should get extra time.

Life isn't fair...I'd love to be a fashion model or professional athlete but I don't possess the requirements (ie, extreme thinnness, tallness or exceptional athletic ability) to be able to do those things.

Being a physician also comes with its own set of requirements. Every physician is supposed to be able to complete their training despite any physical ailments...its great that Harvard and MIT bent over backwards to make this so, but she declared that her disabilities would not get in the way of becoming a physician and practicing her craft. Now that they have she seems to be back-pedaling and wanting more concessions.
 
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Did anyone else notice that she called her significant other on her blog her 'partner.' So I am assuming that she is gay. That means her pregnancies had to be very planned out and couldnt have just been an accident. Perhaps better foresight should have been in order or maybe her partner could have carried the baby since she would be nursing during school.

(Of course this last part could be way off: it could be that her boyfriend is just too ashamed of her to let her call him her boyfriend)

Partner's name is Jeremie...I suppose it could be a female, but that is a more traditional male's name (if not the spelling).
 
I am surprised that she still has a residency spot at MGH. I think suing the NBME after she failed the first time says more about her personality and moral fiber than personal statements and letters of rec ever could. If I were a residency director I would drop her like a hot potato not because I dont believe in breast feeding or women's rights but because anyone who feels they have to sue when they dont get their way is a liability especially after concessions were made.
 
That is a very interesting article. The guy seems really nice and intelligent - a great person. He is definitely an inspiration. But at the same time, I feel like it is another example of the special accommodations that are made for people with disabilities during their education - accommodations that won't hold up in the real world. You can convert images to raised-line drawings and teach him to "see" all this stuff in his head, but can he see a discoloration on skin that suggests a person should be tested for skin cancer? If he needs to look at histology slides in the hospital, someone will need to convert it to another format or describe it to him. I just can't imagine this to be an efficient system.

On a positive note, it seems his enrolling in medical school helped advance educational techniques for the blind. And I hope that the school learned a thing or two they could incorporate into their teaching techniques for the other students.

I don't like being one of the "you can't do that" people. My problem is that there are so many qualified applicants to medical school that aren't accepted. A blind person could enter a similar field by becoming a psychologist and open a seat up for a seeing person that can perform surgery, etc. Don't we all have to be declared "physically able to practice medicine" before we enroll? I think blindness would be a problem there.

Hey, I totally agree with every comment you made. I just though it was a cool story about special accomodations (they really went the distance on that one).

just my last comment on this subject, I feel like this woman is really hurting females in medicine. Women who have worked hard and fought and uphill battle throughout most of their careers. Today we had our clinical tutorials and my relatively young instructor (who specialized in a competitive field) showed us pics of of her 2 year old daughter and 9 month old twins (very cute). I don't think it's appropriate to go into more detail, but clearly this stong woman planned things well and is able to enjoy both a career in medicine and a growing family. I'm also quite sure she never took any 9 hour tests while being 8.5 months pregnant.
 
I understand completely about the need for extra time for tests because of AD/HD, because I live in the House of AD/HD. It seems that many here have never lived with anyone who has it. If they had, they'd understand.

When I was still breastfeeding and not yet self-employed, I attended a daylong conference. I took time to express milk, but not often enough, and good grief, were my breasts ever painfully full when I got back home. Employers and our male-oriented society have yet to truly treat parents—especially mothers, employed or not—respectfully. If there weren't any parents, there wouldn't be any future physicians and dentists and pharmacists. And most of those parents both need and want to work at satisfying careers, such as medicine.

Medical Editor

Quite contrary I have lived with someone who was diagnosed with ADD but she controlled it through doing things like yoga and ther such things. I also know several others who can keep it under control either through the use of exercise and other such mental activities or through medication or a combo of both.
 
Was she hoping everyone would jump on the bandwagon and tell her what she wants to hear??

Well, to be fair, that's what a lot of Pre-Allo is - people asking:

(1) My GPA is (something low) and my MCAT is (something low) but I still have a shot at a top-5 med school, right?

(2) I haven't improved my app since my first time applying and this is my 4th chance, do I still have a shot?

(3) It's January and I just submitted my AMCAS, it's not too late is it?

;)
 
Where is her blog that everyone is referencing? I can't find hers among all the others discussing it on google.
 
I understand completely about the need for extra time for tests because of AD/HD, because I live in the House of AD/HD. It seems that many here have never lived with anyone who has it. If they had, they'd understand.

When I was still breastfeeding and not yet self-employed, I attended a daylong conference. I took time to express milk, but not often enough, and good grief, were my breasts ever painfully full when I got back home. Employers and our male-oriented society have yet to truly treat parents—especially mothers, employed or not—respectfully. If there weren't any parents, there wouldn't be any future physicians and dentists and pharmacists. And most of those parents both need and want to work at satisfying careers, such as medicine.

Medical Editor


Well, I have ADHD. I was diagnosed as a kid. My mom refused to medicate me, and I slowly adapted. I don't want any special concessions. This has nothing to do with male or female oriented. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a job is and what a licensing exam is supposed to be.

A job is supposed to be a mutually beneficial exchange between two individuals or an individual and a company. The employer receives the benefit of the worker and the worker receives the benefit of being paid. There are no requirements in this basic premise that involve gender. My wife has had numerous accomodation from her private employer due to constraints regarding children. We never demanded any of them or threatened to sue. They just want to keep her happy because she's good at what she does and is hard to replace. It's mutually beneficial.

A licensing exam, while practically driving up the price of a commodity or service by limiting competition, is supposed to show a minimum level of competence. By changing the structure of the exam in any way, you alter this minimum level.

Your view is one-sided. This isn't about her. Her USMLE exists to protect THE PATIENTS. Many other people are affected when she is given concessions. ALL concessions indirectly hurt other people who don't compete with the same rules. As far as Harvard goes, they're a private institution, and they can hire whoever they want (whiny and maladapted or not), but receiving a license is different. I hope that this shows what a patient who comes to MGH expecting the world's best medical care might get.

Would you want a doctor who needed special accomodations to pass Step II, because I certainly wouldn't. I want a doctor who is capable of successfully dealing with the results of his/her choices. I don't care whether the doctor is male, female, white, black, martian, or otherwise. People who tie special accomadations to some kind of sexist argument have gotten so PC that it's scary. You're angry because I want women to be treated THE SAME as men.

The original argument for women entering the workplace en masse was that they were capable of doing the same work as men. Many women have since proven that it is true. You can't turn around and make the opposite argument now. "The poor women can't do the same work as a man and requires special concessions." That's an insult to all of the other women who made it happen.
 
Well, I have ADHD. I was diagnosed as a kid. My mom refused to medicate me, and I slowly adapted. I don't want any special concessions. This has nothing to do with male or female oriented. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a job is and what a licensing exam is supposed to be.

A job is supposed to be a mutually beneficial exchange between two individuals or an individual and a company. The employer receives the benefit of the worker and the worker receives the benefit of being paid. There are no requirements in this basic premise that involve gender. My wife has had numerous accomodation from her private employer due to constraints regarding children. We never demanded any of them or threatened to sue. They just want to keep her happy because she's good at what she does and is hard to replace. It's mutually beneficial.

A licensing exam, while practically driving up the price of a commodity or service by limiting competition, is supposed to show a minimum level of competence. By changing the structure of the exam in any way, you alter this minimum level.

Your view is one-sided. This isn't about her. Her USMLE exists to protect THE PATIENTS. Many other people are affected when she is given concessions. ALL concessions indirectly hurt other people who don't compete with the same rules. As far as Harvard goes, they're a private institution, and they can hire whoever they want (whiny and maladapted or not), but receiving a license is different. I hope that this shows what a patient who comes to MGH expecting the world's best medical care might get.

Would you want a doctor who needed special accomodations to pass Step II, because I certainly wouldn't. I want a doctor who is capable of successfully dealing with the results of his/her choices. I don't care whether the doctor is male, female, white, black, martian, or otherwise. People who tie special accomadations to some kind of sexist argument have gotten so PC that it's scary. You're angry because I want women to be treated THE SAME as men.

The original argument for women entering the workplace en masse was that they were capable of doing the same work as men. Many women have since proven that it is true. You can't turn around and make the opposite argument now. "The poor women can't do the same work as a man and requires special concessions." That's an insult to all of the other women who made it happen.

BRAVO!!!
 
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I understand completely about the need for extra time for tests because of AD/HD, because I live in the House of AD/HD. It seems that many here have never lived with anyone who has it. If they had, they'd understand.

When I was still breastfeeding and not yet self-employed, I attended a daylong conference. I took time to express milk, but not often enough, and good grief, were my breasts ever painfully full when I got back home. Employers and our male-oriented society have yet to truly treat parents—especially mothers, employed or not—respectfully. If there weren't any parents, there wouldn't be any future physicians and dentists and pharmacists. And most of those parents both need and want to work at satisfying careers, such as medicine.

Medical Editor

I don't know whether you're actively supporting the person-of-debate's view with your experiences, but it really doesn't address the issue. No one is arguing about the right for her to breastfeed her child or that parents of young children can't be doctors, or that AD/HD-afflicted people need more time for what normal people can do in a set amount of time. I probably will never understand the pain breast-feeding women will experience or how AD/HD affects people at a deep-down personal level, but that really has no meaning in the debate. The points here are that she already received a lot of concessions from the NBME, and that more concessions (breaks) will alter the test experience for both her and other test participants.

What she is asking here is a flagrant, almost offensive, breach of the minimum requirements for this test. The reason why we medical students have more national tests past Step 1 is to make sure we become and remain competent doctors in the current US health care environment. A certain minimum standard has to be set for all test-takers to separate out those who cannot make it in the real rigors of the medical field, whether research or academic. There is no excuse in a modern country like ours to produce physicians that cannot meet to the basic standards of accreditation in order to practice. Would you be comfortable with the fact that the surgeon doing your heart transplant failed his STEP2 and needed twice the amount of time of a normal medical student to barely pass on the second try because he had a chronic disease affecting his ability to memorize?

I agree that sometimes exceptions need to be made for people who are disadvantaged yet show the promise of being great doctors. However, the minimum has to be enforced at a certain point to make sure that the disadvantaged don't gain advantages over others that follow the guidelines and that the person truly has the abilities to become a physician. This person is also a student at Harvard and has a MGH residency lined up for her. To me, that either means that she's very bright and dedicated, or has the right connections. If it's the former, then she'll find a way for it to work out with the generous accomodations given to her. If it's the latter, then she's getting what she deserves.
 
Well, to be fair, that's what a lot of Pre-Allo is - people asking:

(1) My GPA is (something low) and my MCAT is (something low) but I still have a shot at a top-5 med school, right?

(2) I haven't improved my app since my first time applying and this is my 4th chance, do I still have a shot?

(3) It's January and I just submitted my AMCAS, it's not too late is it?

;)

:laugh: :laugh:
 
Where is her blog that everyone is referencing? I can't find hers among all the others discussing it on google.

Look in this thread for anon-y-mouses's post.. Maybe on the previous page.

I love how the people who are supporting her are people not in the medical profession.
 
Gay. Boyfriend and she thought "partner" sounded better since they were having kids. Essentially a husband without the marriage part. I knew some people who lived together for something like 15 years before they finally tied the knot. And another guy I know refers to his "partner" - a woman that he lives with and sleeps with and does all the married things with, but isn't officially his wife.

I occasionally refer to my husband as my partner or significant other just because I hate the word husband. We also did live together for years before marrying and really just formally did the marriage thing for insurance/legal reasons. So yeah, use of partner isn't a giveaway for gay. It appears that the pregnancies were planned, though, based on her blog. To me, that's neither here nor there because there's no really convenient time for a medical student or resident to have a baby, especially if you breastfeed for a year. You're going to hit something.

Getting back to the topic, I'm with the post above in that it's troubling that she's misleading her audience by acting like the USMLE people are making her sit for a full day exam without adequate breaks. But I might be with her if that were the case.
 
When I was still breastfeeding and not yet self-employed, I attended a daylong conference. I took time to express milk, but not often enough, and good grief, were my breasts ever painfully full when I got back home. Employers and our male-oriented society have yet to truly treat parents—especially mothers, employed or not—respectfully.
You attended one day long conference:eek:-Oh $hit.

If there weren't any parents, there wouldn't be any future physicians and dentists and pharmacists. And most of those parents both need and want to work at satisfying careers, such as medicine.
That's your argument?
Please do not advocate for women. Through your illogical arguments you are doing them a great disservice.
 
Found this here http://www.thatsfit.com/2007/09/10/...student-asks-for-more-time-on-tests/#comments. Don't know if it's real, but I don't know why it wouldn't be.

Hi! My name is Jeremie Gallien, and I am Sophie Currier's partner. Thank you for your thoughts about Sophie's situation. Obviously I am very affected by it myself and thus hardly neutral, but I still thought I'd share a couple of comments. The first is a factual correction: the fact that Sophie will be taking her exam over two days of _testing time_ instead of one was granted to her long ago on the basis of extensively documented and duly diagnosed severe learning disabilities, is unrelated to her request for additional _break time_ for expressing milk, and constitutes even less a compromise proposed by the USMLE following that request. It only compounds her breast-feeding problem, because she needs to worry about it for two consecutive 9h long exams instead of one. In case you're wondering (legimitately) whether people with this type of learning disabilities should be put in charge of patients' care I'll just point out that her disability primarily has to do with rapid reading and writing abilities, and that she got many A's and A+'s in her clinical rotations involving patient care at Harvard Medical School. Another comment I have relative to Dr. J's suggestion is that invidividuals interested and gifted for clinical research such as Sophie (she has a PhD in neuroscience from Harvard and many publications) must go through long studies for their training. Given residency programs last several years, postponing having children to after their entire training is completed may commonly push women in her case to age-related pregnancy problems. This was part of our thinking anyway, and we're prepared as a family to support Sophie through her residency (you can imagine this has many implications for me as the father of her children). But we never thought (and to this day still don't understand why) a simple request for some break time would face so much resistance from the Board!

So now I'm confused about the accommodations for her disability. Is she getting twice the test time? I really don't believe this could be the case.

But back to pumping...I have read all these breast-feeding activists say it takes a good 30 minutes or more every time you pump. And Dr. Currier claims to be able to go about 3 hours without pumping or feeding. Now, assuming she gets 9 hours of testing time to split over 2 days, she has 4.5 hours a day. Can't she do a good pump before the test, a mini pump during a break, and a full pump afterwards? I imagine it is possible to only partially empty the breasts. Then again I know nothing about pumping. Can anyone clue me in?
 
Having children is a choice.
This is debatable up to a certain extent.

How is it not a choice? Unless you have an immaculate conception like Mary or have been the victim of rape etc. Regardless, there are only a tiny number of scenarios I can think of where it is not a choice. Why do I get the drift from some women that society forces them to both work and have children. In all honesty, isn't the process of becoming a doctor hard enough without trying to have a baby? Not saying that there is anything wrong with it, (many females do it and pull it off nicely) but if you do then it is your responsibility to deal with it, nobody else's. I may have my preconceived notions or shortcomings but I am willing to listen-so enlighten me.
 
Now, assuming she gets 9 hours of testing time to split over 2 days, she has 4.5 hours a day. Can't she do a good pump before the test, a mini pump during a break, and a full pump afterwards? I imagine it is possible to only partially empty the breasts. Then again I know nothing about pumping. Can anyone clue me in?

Yes, women can pump only partially to get some relief. I have done that many times when I had no choice. The problem is that what takes the longest in the pumping session is not the actual pumping, it's everything around it: getting to the bathroom, assembling the pump, getting undressed and "plugged", getting the flow going (the letdown reflex takes several minutes for some women), then disassembling and cleaning the pump. Shortening actual pumping time wouldn't be THAT much of a time gain, but it's always something if you have no choice. The alternative (without being too technical) is the handpump, which is less effective but possibly quicker (less assembly/disassembly/cleaning).

If this woman is only there 4.5 hours a day, then your scenario is perfect. I don't know how long she actually is. For the rest of us, 9 hours test = pumping right before and right after + at least 2 breaks with FULL pumping (more if baby is younger).
 
Couldn't she...
- Have a female friend or relative (or her partner if there was a way to avoid man in the ladies' room) meet her in the bathroom around the time she would plan to use some breaktime for pumping.
- Disrobe, hook up, pump.
- Go back to the test room and leave her friend to clean the pump.

Everyone wins. She gets to pump without being allowed extra break time.
 
I understand completely about the need for extra time for tests because of AD/HD, because I live in the House of AD/HD. It seems that many here have never lived with anyone who has it. If they had, they'd understand.

When I was still breastfeeding and not yet self-employed, I attended a daylong conference. I took time to express milk, but not often enough, and good grief, were my breasts ever painfully full when I got back home. Employers and our male-oriented society have yet to truly treat parents—especially mothers, employed or not—respectfully. If there weren't any parents, there wouldn't be any future physicians and dentists and pharmacists. And most of those parents both need and want to work at satisfying careers, such as medicine.

Medical Editor

This is NOT about adhd. Seeing as you're brand new to SDN, you missed the huge thread about ADHD in medical school, which has over 300 responses to it. All stops were pulled out for this woman, and she has the ability to schedule her own examination. Concessions were made, and yet this lawsuit happens?? No doubt there are many doctors with ADHD, but they passed their steps just like everyone else. She's already being allowed to take her exam over 2 days, and yet she wants more? I vote ignorant troll on this post... if only there were such an icon to do so!
 
Found this here http://www.thatsfit.com/2007/09/10/...student-asks-for-more-time-on-tests/#comments. Don't know if it's real, but I don't know why it wouldn't be.


So now I'm confused about the accommodations for her disability. Is she getting twice the test time? I really don't believe this could be the case.

YES!!!

I went back to her blog to see if there were any updates on the comments and Sophie herself has written a response in which she admits she is taking the exam over two days and is allowed 8 hrs the first day plus 45 minutes in breaks and 15 minutes for a tutorial (which can be added to break time if you skip it and believe me, no one who's ever used a computer AND taken the exam before needs the tutorial) and 8 hrs the next day with another 45 minutes in breaks. She apparently has some data that shows she reads twice as slow as the "average American" (her quotes, not mine).

So, SHE IS NOT ONLY GETTING TO SPLIT THE EXAM OVER TWO DAYS BUT SHE IS GETTING TWICE AS LONG AS EVERYONE ELSE TO TAKE IT!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I am so angry I could spit...and if you know me, you'll know I don't get angry very often. I wanted to respond to her post in which she claims we don't understand her problems and the test and how smart she is (she mentions that several times), but couldn't bring myself to do it (at least tonight) in a measured fashion.

Can someone who has taken Step 2 CK recently tell me whether or not if you finish the sections before the hour is up, if you can add the extra time to your break time? This is the case with the Surgery Board exam, but I didn't want to raise that issue there without having some facts (which I couldn't find on the NBME page) and without trusting myself to say that even if you read twice as slow, you should still finish the exam early and be able to pump, eat, urinate, etc.

Finally, a big thank you to Miami Med for saying so eloquently what I wanted to. Extra concessions invalidates the exam and makes the whole process a farce. Furthermore, it denigrates all the work women have done to show they don't need special favors to do the same job as men do.
 
There certainly are a lot of people here who exhibit a good deal of anger and very little empathy, and the snarkiness of some strikes me as rather immature. I wouldn't want people with those qualities as my health care practitioners. It is possible to disagree without rudeness; only a few people seem to have managed that regarding this thread. I would think that civility and understanding would be better qualities to have for those who plan to serve humankind.
 
There certainly are a lot of people here who exhibit a good deal of anger and very little empathy, and the snarkiness of some strikes me as rather immature. I wouldn't want people with those qualities as my health care practitioners. It is possible to disagree without rudeness; only a few people seem to have managed that regarding this thread. I would think that civility and understanding would be better qualities to have for those who plan to serve humankind.

Who would you want treating you in a life or death situation? In any case, empathy is given where it is due, but this is one of those situations where people, including you, are being taken for a ride.
 
OK, snarky comment but she did make a ton of grammatical and spelling mistakes in her post, which is making me not doubt that she has a learning disability. I'm a little more cynical about the dean of Harvard supporting her because of course he's going to support her -- they want all their students to pass. Also does it mean much to get high passes and honors on all your rotations at Harvard? I know rotation grading can vary a lot based on the school. For example, my school follows ABCDF grading, and apparently getting a B is actually considered a bad grade.

But, yes, she's the person who's going to bring this issue up who's going to bug most of us for valid and not so valid reasons.
 
She is allowed to stretch the exam over two days. Does this mean an 8 hour exam is split into two 4 hour sessions over two days? Or is 8 hours for one day and then 8 hours the next?
 
She is allowed to stretch the exam over two days. Does this mean an 8 hour exam is split into two 4 hour sessions over two days? Or is 8 hours for one day and then 8 hours the next?

It sounds like they're giving her double the time because of the ADHD/dyslexia, so it's 2 days at 9 hours (8 hours + break?).
 
She is allowed to stretch the exam over two days. Does this mean an 8 hour exam is split into two 4 hour sessions over two days? Or is 8 hours for one day and then 8 hours the next?

Go up and read the post by Kimberli Cox. Apparently it is 8 hours one day and 8 hours the next day. This bothers me and i'm not even in med school yet. Why aren't more people outraged over this?
 
It sounds like they're giving her double the time because of the ADHD/dyslexia, so it's 2 days at 9 hours (8 hours + break?).

Gotcha. Thanks.

It seems to me the board has been very accommodating. She's really pushing it. If it is so essential that she pump, I'd suggest she bite into her test time to do it. It seems that her residency is all lined and all she needs is a passing score. Therefore there would be no real need for her to worry about getting a high score.
 
While I cannot speak for everyone here regarding their level of empathy, I have plenty of the same for people with disabilities. However, Dr. Currier consistently distorts the facts and offers up red herrings in an effort to sway favor in her direction:

To Wit (bold quotes are from Dr. Currier's blog):

"Fifty years ago women were not physicians."

A grossly false statement, but since it doesn't have anything to do with the argument at hand, I'll let it go.

"I am not exaggerating the details. Perhaps the truth is you do not have all of the information."

"...during the 9 to 10 hour period in which I would be taking USMLE step 2,..."


It appears to me that Dr. Currier is exaggerating the details. The test is NOT 9-10 hours in length. The test is 8 (1) hour blocks for which she gets a 15 minute tutorial and 45 minutes in breaks. If you complete the tutorial before 15 minutes is up (and I would imagine anyone who has already taken the exam and knows how to use the mouse to point and click, doesn't need the tutorial) you can add it to your break time.

And guess what? She didn't admit she was being given TWICE as much time to take the exam until she found a lot of people striking out at her. Makes her argument even less compelling.

"Unfortunately we ran into some barriers I had never anticipated. I had never realized that nursing a child would interfere with completing my medical school requirement; namely taking the United States Medical Licensing Exam (Step 2, CK)."

She has already taken the test once. Therefore, she is clearly familiar with the structure of the test and the highly rigid parameters which are necessary to validate the test. In addition, one could also state that since she knew she would be nursing at the time of her second attempt, she would have investigated this earlier.

"Combined degree students in general face a serious problem of being in their mid thirties and thus wanting to have children before they have completed medical school or residency."

This is her choice and the NBME should not be making special accomodations for what amounts to a choice.

"Knowing that you can reduce the risk of serious infection and chronic disease like cancer in both the mom and the baby, women no longer have the choice. "

There are no randomized clinical trials which show these results. As a matter of fact, the NCI only reports that estrogen *may* be lower during breast feeding and this *may* reduce the risk of future breast cancer in women. They do not include breast feeding as a factor which can reduce breast cancer for the simple fact that there is no Level 1 evidence.

While it (breast feeding) may reduce the risk of infection in neonates via the early production of colostrum, there is no long term evidence in RCT that breast feeding produces children and adults with lower rates of infection and cancer.

"We HAVE to nurse our babies."

We CHOOSE to nurse our babies.

"That means pumping or feeding an infant every 2 to 3 hours for over 12 months."

Most women who breast feed for prolonged periods do not need to pump or feed every 2-3 hours as only neonates need to feed that often. Current standards for older children recommend longer periods between feeding and given the fact that Dr. Currier's youngest child will be 4-5 months of age during her exam, it is extremely likely that he/she will be able to go at least 4 hours without a feed.

"Even the National Medical Licensing Examiners are not willing to make accommodations for women to nurse their children during the USMLE."

The NBME is not in charge of the non-testing facilities at the testing centers. They only require certain standards for the actual computer room where the test will be administered. Breast Feeding is not an ADA problem, therefore the testing centers are not required to provide private (non-restroom) facilities for a breast feeding mother.

As the NBME notes, "breast feeding is not a permanent condition" and therefore, does not warrant special consideration. Why should breast feeding, a "condition" which is a choice receive concessions when the test taker with the flu, a migraine, a broken leg, UC flare, etc. do not? These individuals only have the option of rescheduling the exam...they do not have the option either of getting extra time to take the test because they may need to rest, use the bathroom, or take medications. Why should she?

"My exam is over two days, but each day will be 9 hours long. That is because of my slow reading I need 60 minutes to do 23 (other can read 46 questions in 60 minutes). "

She admits that the NBME has given her accomodations for her ADHD. While she provides numbers about the average reading speed, these are irrelevant for the board exam because we do not know the average for the physician taking the exam...it may be slower or faster than the average American.

This angers me less than the request for extra break time because if she has a documented disability (which it appears she does) that requires extra test time, then it is up to the NBME to decide whether this invalidates the results. I would venture that it may in fact do so, but am willing to give her concessions for extra testing time. It would appear that there are precedents for the same.

"Of course women can go with only pumping once in 9 hours, but it is in no way medically advisable."

Red herring...no one was suggesting that she go 9 hours without pumping. Rather we are suggesting she pump in the break time she has available. The risks of mastitis and milk duct stasis are real, but happen in the minority of women. For those that do experience it, the most vulnerable period is in the first 3 months post-partum. This does not preclude Dr. Currier from having another bout of mastitis and her risk is increased, but NOT "high" as she claims. I'm not sure what she means by "high" as it is not a medically defined term, but it certainly is not 50% nor is it even likely 25%. If she pumps every 4 hours her chances of developing mastitis, are extremely low, probably less than 10%. Milk duct stasis is a self-resolving issue, one that resolves with continued breast feeding and is generally over in 24-48 hrs and does not result in any long-term damage to the breats, so this should not be an issue.

"By the way- as far as failing the exam the first time, I would like to see you take 3 years off between 2 and 3rd year of medical school, complete a PhD, then come back, struggle with pregnancy/ nursing and doing medical school rotations, take another 1.5 years after your core rotations and then try to pass the exam at 8 months pregnant and so ill that you had to be hospitalized.

Lastly, as far as family planning goes, as an MD PhD I have been in school without any break since I was 2 years old. I am now 33. Residency is a very poor time to have children-- for many reasons. The only good time for MD PhDs to have children is either in 4th year of medical school or after residency (when you are >37). "

None of this has anything to do with her concerns. Her PhD was completed before she started her clinical rotations and it was her decision to register for the test when she was 8 months pregnant. I'm sorry she had to be hospitalized during her pregnancy but this emotional appeal does not change the issue at hand; it was her decision to get pregnant when she did and to register for the exam when she did. Like all other decisions in life, there are potential consequences which we deal with.

I don't disagree that residency is a bad time to have children, but her argument above trivializes the everyday actions of many other women who have completed the EXACT same route as she, but without the concessions she is asking for.

"I haven't slept more than 8 hours in 2 years."

Welcome to the real world of medicine. Besides, HER choice to have two children in two years.

Despite an Md-PhD (from Harvard and MIT we are reminded multiple times throughout her blog) she fails to recognize the concept of standardization of tests. Part of the struggle with the medical licensing exams is the stress and fatigue...for someone else to be offered an easier test schedule may result in higher scores or an unfair advantage. Finally, her claim that those of us posting don't know what she is talking about, there are plenty of licensed physicians posting here and in her blog comments who have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

I'm sorry but I am angry and I'm trying to be empathic but its hard when someone seems so unable to understand the complexities of what she is asking for.

Not for myself...I've taken the exams, passed them and like most people, had plenty of time to do so. However, if the NBME is going to allow such accomodations what is to stop them from allowing unfair advantages to people with other conditions? How will we standardize the exam if some are allowed to take twice as long to complete it? Good thing they are thinking of restructuring the exam because it will become a farce at this rate.

Furthermore her actions (ie, complaints that she needs extra time, suing the board, etc.) belittle the accomplishments of women AND men who have gotten through medical school, residency and work a full-time job while being parents, all without asking for extra concessions. Parents and especially women, will continue to be thought of as less hard-working when they continue to ask for favors that others do not get.

Believe me, as a surgeon I am extremely familiar with the common belief that females work less hard, ask for more time off, and generally shirk their duties. I and my colleagues had to work extra hard to make sure that those with these attitudes were chastened. If that meant coming into work post-op hour 36 or working until lab contractions set in, it was what we did. We didn't expect thank yous or extra concessions and we appreciated the work that the generation before us did that allowed us to be accepted in the medical field and in the operating room. It angers me to see some women like Dr. Currier attempt to use their biology and choices to curry favors and by doing so, recapitulate the belief that women aren't as good or as strong or as capable as men.
 
:lol: This is really ridiculous!!! I have four kids and breastfed them all. By four months old, babies are starting to sleep for longer periods of time. When they are first born, they will eat every two or three hours, but by four months old they are starting to sleep for five or six hour stretches. Many babies are actually sleeping through the night then. There is no way that this woman has not gone past three hours before pumping or feeding. Somehow I doubt that she sets her alarm for every two to three hours so that she can wake up just to pump. :rolleyes:

I went through undergraduate while having my children and had long stretches of time where I was in class and couldn't nurse or pump. I just put a few extra pads in my bra and dealt with it. Yes, my boobs hurt like h*ll, but I wanted to go to school while I had my children and so I had to make certain accomodations.

I completely agree with everyone who said that this has nothing to do with breastfeeding and that the licensing exam should be held to certain standards. I also think it is pathetic that she is using breastfeeding as an excuse to make things easier on herself. I think that the arrangements that were already made were quite fair in trying to accomodate her disability.

I am a huge supporter of breastfeeding, women's and mother's rights, and providing for those of us with disabilities, but I call :bullcrap: on this one.
 
Well, I have ADHD. I was diagnosed as a kid. My mom refused to medicate me, and I slowly adapted. I don't want any special concessions. This has nothing to do with male or female oriented. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a job is and what a licensing exam is supposed to be.

A job is supposed to be a mutually beneficial exchange between two individuals or an individual and a company. The employer receives the benefit of the worker and the worker receives the benefit of being paid. There are no requirements in this basic premise that involve gender. My wife has had numerous accomodation from her private employer due to constraints regarding children. We never demanded any of them or threatened to sue. They just want to keep her happy because she's good at what she does and is hard to replace. It's mutually beneficial.

A licensing exam, while practically driving up the price of a commodity or service by limiting competition, is supposed to show a minimum level of competence. By changing the structure of the exam in any way, you alter this minimum level.

Your view is one-sided. This isn't about her. Her USMLE exists to protect THE PATIENTS. Many other people are affected when she is given concessions. ALL concessions indirectly hurt other people who don't compete with the same rules. As far as Harvard goes, they're a private institution, and they can hire whoever they want (whiny and maladapted or not), but receiving a license is different. I hope that this shows what a patient who comes to MGH expecting the world's best medical care might get.

Would you want a doctor who needed special accomodations to pass Step II, because I certainly wouldn't. I want a doctor who is capable of successfully dealing with the results of his/her choices. I don't care whether the doctor is male, female, white, black, martian, or otherwise. People who tie special accomadations to some kind of sexist argument have gotten so PC that it's scary. You're angry because I want women to be treated THE SAME as men.

The original argument for women entering the workplace en masse was that they were capable of doing the same work as men. Many women have since proven that it is true. You can't turn around and make the opposite argument now. "The poor women can't do the same work as a man and requires special concessions." That's an insult to all of the other women who made it happen.

Excellent post! :thumbup: :clap:
 
Kimberli Cox said:
While I cannot speak for everyone here regarding their level of empathy, I have plenty of the same for people with disabilities. However, Dr. Currier consistently distorts the facts and offers up red herrings in an effort to sway favor in her direction:

To Wit (bold quotes are from Dr. Currier's blog):

"Fifty years ago women were not physicians."

A grossly false statement, but since it doesn't have anything to do with the argument at hand, I'll let it go.

"I am not exaggerating the details. Perhaps the truth is you do not have all of the information."

"...during the 9 to 10 hour period in which I would be taking USMLE step 2,..."


It appears to me that Dr. Currier is exaggerating the details. The test is NOT 9-10 hours in length. The test is 8 (1) hour blocks for which she gets a 15 minute tutorial and 45 minutes in breaks. If you complete the tutorial before 15 minutes is up (and I would imagine anyone who has already taken the exam and knows how to use the mouse to point and click, doesn't need the tutorial) you can add it to your break time.

And guess what? She didn't admit she was being given TWICE as much time to take the exam until she found a lot of people striking out at her. Makes her argument even less compelling.

"Unfortunately we ran into some barriers I had never anticipated. I had never realized that nursing a child would interfere with completing my medical school requirement; namely taking the United States Medical Licensing Exam (Step 2, CK)."

She has already taken the test once. Therefore, she is clearly familiar with the structure of the test and the highly rigid parameters which are necessary to validate the test. In addition, one could also state that since she knew she would be nursing at the time of her second attempt, she would have investigated this earlier.

"Combined degree students in general face a serious problem of being in their mid thirties and thus wanting to have children before they have completed medical school or residency."

This is her choice and the NBME should not be making special accomodations for what amounts to a choice.

"Knowing that you can reduce the risk of serious infection and chronic disease like cancer in both the mom and the baby, women no longer have the choice. "

There are no randomized clinical trials which show these results. As a matter of fact, the NCI only reports that estrogen *may* be lower during breast feeding and this *may* reduce the risk of future breast cancer in women. They do not include breast feeding as a factor which can reduce breast cancer for the simple fact that there is no Level 1 evidence.

While it (breast feeding) may reduce the risk of infection in neonates via the early production of colostrum, there is no long term evidence in RCT that breast feeding produces children and adults with lower rates of infection and cancer.

"We HAVE to nurse our babies."

We CHOOSE to nurse our babies.

"That means pumping or feeding an infant every 2 to 3 hours for over 12 months."

Most women who breast feed for prolonged periods do not need to pump or feed every 2-3 hours as only neonates need to feed that often. Current standards for older children recommend longer periods between feeding and given the fact that Dr. Currier's youngest child will be 4-5 months of age during her exam, it is extremely likely that he/she will be able to go at least 4 hours without a feed.

"Even the National Medical Licensing Examiners are not willing to make accommodations for women to nurse their children during the USMLE."

The NBME is not in charge of the non-testing facilities at the testing centers. They only require certain standards for the actual computer room where the test will be administered. Breast Feeding is not an ADA problem, therefore the testing centers are not required to provide private (non-restroom) facilities for a breast feeding mother.

As the NBME notes, "breast feeding is not a permanent condition" and therefore, does not warrant special consideration. Why should breast feeding, a "condition" which is a choice receive concessions when the test taker with the flu, a migraine, a broken leg, UC flare, etc. do not? These individuals only have the option of rescheduling the exam...they do not have the option either of getting extra time to take the test because they may need to rest, use the bathroom, or take medications. Why should she?

"My exam is over two days, but each day will be 9 hours long. That is because of my slow reading I need 60 minutes to do 23 (other can read 46 questions in 60 minutes). "

She admits that the NBME has given her accomodations for her ADHD. While she provides numbers about the average reading speed, these are irrelevant for the board exam because we do not know the average for the physician taking the exam...it may be slower or faster than the average American.

This angers me less than the request for extra break time because if she has a documented disability (which it appears she does) that requires extra test time, then it is up to the NBME to decide whether this invalidates the results. I would venture that it may in fact do so, but am willing to give her concessions for extra testing time. It would appear that there are precedents for the same.

"Of course women can go with only pumping once in 9 hours, but it is in no way medically advisable."

Red herring...no one was suggesting that she go 9 hours without pumping. Rather we are suggesting she pump in the break time she has available. The risks of mastitis and milk duct stasis are real, but happen in the minority of women. For those that do experience it, the most vulnerable period is in the first 3 months post-partum. This does not preclude Dr. Currier from having another bout of mastitis and her risk is increased, but NOT "high" as she claims. I'm not sure what she means by "high" as it is not a medically defined term, but it certainly is not 50% nor is it even likely 25%. If she pumps every 4 hours her chances of developing mastitis, are extremely low, probably less than 10%. Milk duct stasis is a self-resolving issue, one that resolves with continued breast feeding and is generally over in 24-48 hrs and does not result in any long-term damage to the breats, so this should not be an issue.

"By the way- as far as failing the exam the first time, I would like to see you take 3 years off between 2 and 3rd year of medical school, complete a PhD, then come back, struggle with pregnancy/ nursing and doing medical school rotations, take another 1.5 years after your core rotations and then try to pass the exam at 8 months pregnant and so ill that you had to be hospitalized.

Lastly, as far as family planning goes, as an MD PhD I have been in school without any break since I was 2 years old. I am now 33. Residency is a very poor time to have children-- for many reasons. The only good time for MD PhDs to have children is either in 4th year of medical school or after residency (when you are >37). "

None of this has anything to do with her concerns. Her PhD was completed before she started her clinical rotations and it was her decision to register for the test when she was 8 months pregnant. I'm sorry she had to be hospitalized during her pregnancy but this emotional appeal does not change the issue at hand; it was her decision to get pregnant when she did and to register for the exam when she did. Like all other decisions in life, there are potential consequences which we deal with.

I don't disagree that residency is a bad time to have children, but her argument above trivializes the everyday actions of many other women who have completed the EXACT same route as she, but without the concessions she is asking for.

"I haven't slept more than 8 hours in 2 years."

Welcome to the real world of medicine. Besides, HER choice to have two children in two years.

Despite an Md-PhD (from Harvard and MIT we are reminded multiple times throughout her blog) she fails to recognize the concept of standardization of tests. Part of the struggle with the medical licensing exams is the stress and fatigue...for someone else to be offered an easier test schedule may result in higher scores or an unfair advantage. Finally, her claim that those of us posting don't know what she is talking about, there are plenty of licensed physicians posting here and in her blog comments who have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

I'm sorry but I am angry and I'm trying to be empathic but its hard when someone seems so unable to understand the complexities of what she is asking for.

Not for myself...I've taken the exams, passed them and like most people, had plenty of time to do so. However, if the NBME is going to allow such accomodations what is to stop them from allowing unfair advantages to people with other conditions? How will we standardize the exam if some are allowed to take twice as long to complete it? Good thing they are thinking of restructuring the exam because it will become a farce at this rate.

Furthermore her actions (ie, complaints that she needs extra time, suing the board, etc.) belittle the accomplishments of women AND men who have gotten through medical school, residency and work a full-time job while being parents, all without asking for extra concessions. Parents and especially women, will continue to be thought of as less hard-working when they continue to ask for favors that others do not get.

Believe me, as a surgeon I am extremely familiar with the common belief that females work less hard, ask for more time off, and generally shirk their duties. I and my colleagues had to work extra hard to make sure that those with these attitudes were chastened. If that meant coming into work post-op hour 36 or working until lab contractions set in, it was what we did. We didn't expect thank yous or extra concessions and we appreciated the work that the generation before us did that allowed us to be accepted in the medical field and in the operating room. It angers me to see some women like Dr. Currier attempt to use their biology and choices to curry favors and by doing so, recapitulate the belief that women aren't as good or as strong or as capable as men.

I've come to the conclusion that trying to post another post on her blog is a waste of time. She's an idiot and a first class idiot at that. I still show her no sympathy and think this is a good rebuttal to her idiotic post. She's an idiot plain and simple. She thinks we were born yesterday and don't have the facts. she didn't tell us anything we didn't already know as we didn't use her blog as the main source of our info but a much better article which stated the facts unlike those ignorant ones out there who were talking about her in defense yet no idea of how it really works.
 
You know, if she passes this examination, she is going to freaking crash and burn in "real life" medicine.

So she wants to do Pathology, eh?

"Dr. Currier, what is your assessment of this tumor section?"

"I'm sorry, my dyslexia is preventing me from finding the correct slide to put on the stand, my ADHD would keep me from being able to focus on the histology anyway, and I shouldn't even have to be here right now because I've got to take my son to a mother/child swimming class at the gym."

"Uh...but you're required to be here until..."

"HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO BE A MOTHER!?! I WILL SUE YOU INTO THE STONE AGE!!!!"
 
:lol: This is really ridiculous!!! I have four kids and breastfed them all. By four months old, babies are starting to sleep for longer periods of time. When they are first born, they will eat every two or three hours, but by four months old they are starting to sleep for five or six hour stretches. Many babies are actually sleeping through the night then. There is no way that this woman has not gone past three hours before pumping or feeding. Somehow I doubt that she sets her alarm for every two to three hours so that she can wake up just to pump. :rolleyes:

I went through undergraduate while having my children and had long stretches of time where I was in class and couldn't nurse or pump. I just put a few extra pads in my bra and dealt with it. Yes, my boobs hurt like h*ll, but I wanted to go to school while I had my children and so I had to make certain accomodations.

I completely agree with everyone who said that this has nothing to do with breastfeeding and that the licensing exam should be held to certain standards. I also think it is pathetic that she is using breastfeeding as an excuse to make things easier on herself. I think that the arrangements that were already made were quite fair in trying to accomodate her disability.

I am a huge supporter of breastfeeding, women's and mother's rights, and providing for those of us with disabilities, but I call :bullcrap: on this one.

Well stated. I agree with the points you bring up here. She takes us all for fools like we don't have any clue to reality. That's what irks me. I don't think she's going to get that support that she's looking for except from people outside of medicine who have no idea how things work and hang on to her every word without doing the research for themselves.
 
I am Dr. Cox, hear me roar. Remind me to never make up stupid excuses and whiny arguments in Dr. Cox's presence!

Good post Kim. When you have a FEMALE BREAST SURGEON shooting you down regarding a BREAST FEEDING issue, it's best to shut your step 2 :)laugh:) failing, MD/PhD :)laugh: How?), whiny, over-litigating, obviously liberal (where is MoveOn.Org?) mouth up. Being a physician isn't for everyone. Perhaps she can be a Doula instead, helping other women cope with the "discrimination" of breast feeding. Or, get a JD from NYU, and join the ACLU illiberals in forcing nanny state (wet nurse state?) concepts down the public's throat.

While I cannot speak for everyone here regarding their level of empathy, I have plenty of the same for people with disabilities. However, Ms. Currier consistently distorts the facts and offers up red herrings in an effort to sway favor in her direction:

To Wit (bold quotes are from Ms. Currier's blog):

"Fifty years ago women were not physicians."

A grossly false statement, but since it doesn't have anything to do with the argument at hand, I'll let it go.

"I am not exaggerating the details. Perhaps the truth is you do not have all of the information."

"...during the 9 to 10 hour period in which I would be taking USMLE step 2,..."


It appears to me that Ms. Currier is exaggerating the details. The test is NOT 9-10 hours in length. The test is 8 (1) hour blocks for which she gets a 15 minute tutorial and 45 minutes in breaks. If you complete the tutorial before 15 minutes is up (and I would imagine anyone who has already taken the exam and knows how to use the mouse to point and click, doesn't need the tutorial) you can add it to your break time.

And guess, what? She didn't admit she was being given TWICE as much time to take the exam until she found a lot of people striking out at her. Makes her argument even less compelling.

"Unfortunately we ran into some barriers I had never anticipated. I had never realized that nursing a child would interfere with completing my medical school requirement; namely taking the United States Medical Licensing Exam (Step 2, CK)."

She has already taken the test once. Therefore, she is clearly familiar with the structure of the test and its highly rigid parameters which are necessary to validate the test. In addition, one could also state that since she knew she would be nursing at the time of her second attempt, she would have investigated this earlier.

"Combined degree students in general face a serious problem of being in their mid thirties and thus wanting to have children before they have completed medical school or residency."

This is her choice and the NBME should not be making special accomodations for what amounts to a choice.

"Knowing that you can reduce the risk of serious infection and chronic disease like cancer in both the mom and the baby, women no longer have the choice. "

There are no randomized clinical trials which show these results. As a matter of fact, the NCI only reports that estrogen *may* be lower during breast feeding and this *may* reduce the risk of future breast cancer in women. While it may reduce the risk of infection via the early production of colostrum, there is no long term evidence in RCT that breast feeding produces children and adults with lower rates of infection and cancer.

"We HAVE to nurse our babies."

We CHOOSE to nurse our babies.

"That means pumping or feeding an infant every 2 to 3 hours for over 12 months."

Most women who breast feed for prolonged periods do not need to pump or feed every 2-3 hours as only neonates need to feed that often. Current standards for older children recommend longer periods between feeding.

"Even the National Medical Licensing Examiners are not willing to make accommodations for women to nurse their children during the USMLE."

The NBME is not in charge of the non-testing facilities at the testing centers. They only require certain standards for the actual computer room where the test will be administered. Breast Feeding is not an ADA problem, therefore the testing centers are not required to provide private (non-restroom) facilities for a breast feeding mother.

"My exam is over two days, but each day will be 9 hours long. That is because of my slow reading I need 60 minutes to do 23 (other can read 46 questions in 60 minutes). "

She admits that the NBME has given her accomodations for her ADHD. While she provides numbers about the average reading speed, these are irrelevant for the board exam because we do not know the average for the physician taking the exam...it may be slower or faster than the average American.

"Of course women can go with only pumping once in 9 hours, but it is in no way medically advisable."

Red herring...no one was suggesting that she go 9 hours without pumping. Rather we are suggesting she pump in the break time she has available. The risks of mastitis and milk duct stasis are real, but happen in the minority of women. For those that do experience it, the most vulnerable period is in the first 3 months post-partum. This does not preclude Ms. Currier from having another bout of mastitis and her risk is increased, but NOT high.

"By the way- as far as failing the exam the first time, I would like to see you take 3 years off between 2 and 3rd year of medical school, complete a PhD, then come back, struggle with pregnancy/ nursing and doing medical school rotations, take another 1.5 years after your core rotations and then try to pass the exam at 8 months pregnant and so ill that you had to be hospitalized.

Lastly, as far as family planning goes, as an MD PhD I have been in school without any break since I was 2 years old. I am now 33. Residency is a very poor time to have children-- for many reasons. The only good time for MD PhDs to have children is either in 4th year of medical school or after residency (when you are >37). "

None of this has anything to do with her concerns. Her PhD was completed before she started her clinical rotations and it was her decision to register for the test when she was 8 months pregnant.

I don't disagree that residency is a bad time to have children, but her argument above trivializes the everyday actions of many other women who have completed the EXACT same route as she, but without the concessions she is asking for.

"I haven't slept more than 8 hours in 2 years."

Welcome to the real world of medicine. Besides, HER choice to have two children in two years.

Despite an Md-PhD (from Harvard and MIT we are reminded multiple times throughout her blog) she fails to recognize the concept of standardization of standardized tests. Part of the struggle with the medical licensing exams is the stress and fatigue...for someone else to be offered an easier test schedule may result in higher scores or an unfair advantage. Finally, her claim that those of us posting don't know what she is talking about, there are plenty of licensed physicians posting here and in her blog comments who have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

I'm sorry but I am angry and I'm trying to be empathic but its hard when someone seems so unable to understand the complexities of what she is asking for.

Not for myself...I've taken the exams, passed them and like most people, had plenty of time to do so. However, if the NBME is going to allow such accomodations what is to stop them from allowing unfair advantages to people with other conditions? How will we standardize the exam if some are allowed to take twice as long to complete it? Good thing they are thinking of restructuring the exam because it will become a farce at this rate.

Furthermore her actions (ie, complaints that she needs extra time, suing the board, etc.) belittle the accomplishments of women AND men who have gotten through medical school, residency and work a full-time job while being parents, all without asking for extra concessions. Parents and especially women, will continue to be thought of as less hard-working when they continue to ask for favors that others do not get.

Believe me, as a surgeon I am extremely familiar with the common belief that females work less hard, ask for more time off, and generally shirk their duties. I and my colleagues had to work extra hard to make sure that those with these attitudes were chastened. If that meant coming into work post-op hour 36 or working until lab contractions set in, it was what we did. We didn't expect thank yous or extra concessions and we appreciated the work that the generation before us did that allowed us to be accepted in the medical field and in the operating room. It angers me to see some women like Dr. Currier attempt to use their biology and choices to curry favors and by doing so, recapitulate the belief that women aren't as good or as strong or as capable as men.
 
What bothers me the most is that there really are some legitimate discrimination issues involving breastfeeding women, and by trying to put herself in the same lot as them, she really screws over women who really have a right to be upset.
 
What bothers me the most is that there really are some legitimate discrimination issues involving breastfeeding women, and by trying to put herself in the same lot as them, she really screws over women who really have a right to be upset.

Yeah that's the thing that disturbed most of the females including myself on here. The fact that many of us are women and we all are not on her side is something that should send a message to the public.
 
YES!!!
She apparently has some data that shows she reads twice as slow as the "average American" (her quotes, not mine).

wait a minute. So how did she get into Harvard? how the hell did she smoke the MCAT? did AAMC give her extra time for each section?
 
wait a minute. So how did she get into Harvard? how the hell did she smoke the MCAT? did AAMC give her extra time for each section?

Yeah -I'm pretty sure an article somewhere said she got double the time for MCAT just like she's getting for USMLE. The fact that she gets twice the time for the test itself makes this sooo much worse.

They have bent over backwards for her, she should learn to do SOMETHING FOR HERSELF!
 
She is right. :thumbup: Having children is not simply a choice - it is MORE important that women have babies than society having MDs or PhDs. What would these MDs be good for if there were NO BABIES??? Moms should have a 5% per child raise on there test result accomodating for the lost study time.
 
She is right. :thumbup: Having children is not simply a choice - it is MORE important that women have babies than society having MDs or PhDs. What would these MDs be good for if there were NO BABIES??? Moms should have a 5% per child raise on there test result accomodating for the lost study time.

So I keep looking for the hint of sarcasm you MUST be trying to display here but I can't find it... can ya help me out??
 
She is right. :thumbup: Having children is not simply a choice - it is MORE important that women have babies than society having MDs or PhDs. What would these MDs be good for if there were NO BABIES??? Moms should have a 5% per child raise on there test result accomodating for the lost study time.

Please say you're not serious, I'm begging you.

Of course, your idea is interesting in that it could usher in a whole new era of "welfare moms"!! Young girls getting pregnant and having 10 babies by the age of 24 so they can get a 50% MCAT score raise. Afterall, the admissions process is pretty competitive.

By the way, I work full time, go to school 15 credit hours/semester, and am raising two young children (but am male). Should I get a score increase also?
 
She is right. :thumbup: Having children is not simply a choice - it is MORE important that women have babies than society having MDs or PhDs. What would these MDs be good for if there were NO BABIES??? Moms should have a 5% per child raise on there test result accomodating for the lost study time.

This is why men think we are incompetent and shouldn't be in the work force. This is the kind of argument that gives these eastern and middle eastern fundamentalists and even christian fundamentalists in the west support to their argument against working women.

This lady has more then enough accomodations and I don't buy any of the BS she wrote on her blog response to all of us.
 
Couldn't she...
- Have a female friend or relative (or her partner if there was a way to avoid man in the ladies' room) meet her in the bathroom around the time she would plan to use some breaktime for pumping.
- Disrobe, hook up, pump.
- Go back to the test room and leave her friend to clean the pump.

Everyone wins. She gets to pump without being allowed extra break time.

OMG that's the best idea EVER!!! I have to take boards next year (my youngest should be around 3 months old by then, if all goes well) and I'll definitely do that! Thank you thank you thank you. How did I not think about that?
 
OMG that's the best idea EVER!!! I have to take boards next year (my youngest should be around 3 months old by then, if all goes well) and I'll definitely do that! Thank you thank you thank you. How did I not think about that?

Before you plan on doing that, please make sure that this is not a violation of the exam, allowing an "outside" individual onto testing premises.

Since you are allowed to leave during your breaks, its likely not, but they are pretty rigid about whom they let in. I remember during my Step 3 there was a husband of a test taker who wanted to wait in the lobby for her and they made him leave.
 
She is right. :thumbup: Having children is not simply a choice - it is MORE important that women have babies than society having MDs or PhDs. What would these MDs be good for if there were NO BABIES??? Moms should have a 5% per child raise on there test result accomodating for the lost study time.

I did NOT mean that it is MORE important for women to have babies than MDs or PhDs.

What I mean is that it is not simply a matter of choice in terms of our human nature. That is why I said "debatable to an extent." Having babies is an individual choice. However, collectively, as a society, having babies is NOT a choice. We have to reproduce, it is important. Russia has started giving incentives to people to have more children, because their country was becoming a nation of old people. Just an example.

I guess what rubs me the wrong way is that it has to be an EITHER/OR choice. While I don't think you can be 100% stay-at-home mother and 100% workaholic physician, I do believe that you can do both and do them well.
 
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