New mom sues medical licensing board

[Chuckwalla]

Another woman wanting to have her cake and eat it too. She took up a Harvard MD/PhD spot and decided to have kids. That means she is half ass mom and a half ass doctor/researcher which already shows because she failed the test the first time.

She already has extra time for ADD and dyslexia, but that is not enough for her. It seems obvious that just is just a ploy so she get more of an advantage on the test.

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[MadameLULU]

women in medicine who choose to have children are not half assed moms or half-assed physicians. There are plenty of women who do do both well, and it's quite inspiring.

 

[Chuckwalla]

women in medicine who choose to have children are not half assed moms or half-assed physicians. There are plenty of women who do do both well, and it's quite inspiring.

Harvard trained MD/PhD fails the USMLE=Half-assed doctor
Mom breast feeds baby while she is taking a test=Half-assed mom

I rest my case.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Yes, I believe she has breastfed before, but has she breastfed and been required to take a 9 hour exam before?

That's a point. Since she was doing the MD/Ph.D. thing, it's possible she took step 1 before she had her first child or after she stopped breast-feeding. She's probably had to deal with lots of other things but not necessarily this.

But they're already accommodating her by splitting the test into 2 days. So has she had to deal with a half day of not nursing before? I find it hard to believe that she hasn't, but I really don't know.

 

[Coastie]

Hired people to read textbooks to her? Failed USMLE while pregnant, and now complaining of not enough time, with ADHD/Breast feeding issues? If she has to pump every , what, 1.5 hours, how does she sleep? Classic illiberalism. Pathetic. And given an MGH residency too?

Nancy Pelosi and feminists everywhere breath a collective sigh of relief with all the progressive principles at work here!

Wow, this woman sounds like such a whiner. Remind me never to get a biopsy done at MGH. And what kind of idiotic person schedules their licensing exam at 8.5 months pregnant???

More about her:
http://www.boston.com/yourlife/heal...6/26/hyperactive_adults_need_help_too?mode=PF

I can't believe she had her undergrad (MIT) hire people to *read* textbooks TO her!

You wouldn't want a firefighter who couldn't climb a burning building in time to rescue you, shouldn't there be minimal mental benchmarks (without accommodations) in medicine??

And after they allowed her to do the exam in TWO days, she wants her break extended from 45 minutes to 60 minutes? Her sense of entitlement is so infuriating... she needs to suck it up like the rest of us and be flexible. I can think of so many more deserving people for that HMS spot and MGH residency.

 

[Coastie]

Thus, pathology.

Make that academic pathology.

NOBODY should be given extra time on the USMLE. NOBODY. I could give two $hits if they have ADHD. I don't care if this woman's boobs will spontaneously combust if she doesn't pump milk out of them. It's an exam to get to be a doctor for chrissake, you don't get extra bonus time.

What the f^(# is she gonna do when her pts start coding??

"Excuse me Mr. Johnson, could you go ahead and go back into a sinus rhythm for me for a little while, I have ADHD you see, and it'll take me a while longer to figure out how to get you out of this V-tach."

 

[Coastie]

You can't separate break time from test time. Part of the reason why the test is so hard is because of the lack of breaks, the breakneck pace, etc. You ever taken the USMLE (other than in April when you failed it? )

Long-time lurker, I just had to post on this (I'm a huge breastfeeding advocate). While this woman may not be the typical medical student, I think the bigger issue here isn't whether SHE should be allowed extra time, but whether the board should make accomodations for breastfeeding moms. A lot of other places/institutions make accomodations (including no jury duty), why does the NBME think it should be anything different?

Let's not forget that
- she is asking for extra BREAK time, not test time.
- it's not a matter of having enough milk for her baby to eat, it's a matter of her pumping often enough. Her breasts will keep producing milk at the same rate!
- a typical exclusively breastfed 4-month old does nurse every 2-3 hours in the daytime (based on my experience), and she will be in serious pain and risk complications (engorgement, clogged duct, mastitis) indeed if she goes too long before pumping. Some women are very prone to that. She will also most likely start leaking, possibly considerable amounts.
- pumping takes time - at least 20-25 minutes per session (including set-up, pumping, clean up, storing) for the super fast mom with a great letdown reflex, could take much longer depending on the mom, especially in stressful conditions as she would be. A 45-minute break may only be enough for her to pump once, and that is definitely NOT enough.
- because *some* women can and have done it doesn't mean *all* women should. Some women also take no maternity leave, so should that be the standard for all? Maybe she needs to pump more often, maybe she produces more, maybe she is a slow pumper, maybe she's prone to mastitis. I don't see why the NBME would refuse to even consider giving any woman an accomodation for breastfeeding, which is not only her right, but better for her baby's health.

It's easy to focus on this woman's particular circumstances, but let's focus on the big picture too! What if she wasn't receiving other accomodations, and hadn't failed the test before? Would you think it ridiculous for her to ask for extra BREAK time (not TEST time)?

 

[Coastie]

Does the board support my right to eat 6 small meals when I'm on the south beach diet? Does the board support my right to be a nudist and take the test without clothes? All of these supposed rights are hilarious.

They support breast feeding, but that's not an issue here. The issue is that you have this lady, already getting ADHD time, and having already FAILED it one time without a baby, now complaining that a baby is requiring her extra time to take the test. She's a physician, and with that, you have to pay your dues. She can get a babysitter, give formula for a day, and super pump her breasts before the exam. Plenty of people take the exam in pain, while sick, etc, and get no breaks. The worst she'll have is minor breast discomfort, which, by the way, she can take care of on her already built in breaks (including lunch hour).

Pathetic.

I'm surprised that, as a future OB/GYN, you think it is acceptable that her choices should be
1) wean her child
2) postpone her test and most likely delay graduation
3) risk mastitis/clogged duct/extreme discomfort.

As you said, you know the benefits of breastfeeding for both mother and child, but you still recommend that she weans her child *just* so that she can take the test in acceptable conditions? That's a pretty big sacrifice. I'm aware it was her choice to have children, but this is a sad choice to have forced upon her. What next? Be a physician OR have children? Take zero maternity leave OR don't have children at all?

I personally only see extra break time as a minor accomodation (testing time would be different, of course), and as I said before, accomodations for breastfeeding are made in many other arenas (in some cases, mandated by state laws). I find it a bit hypocritical that a MEDICAL board wouldn't support breastfeeding.

 

[Coastie]

Use USMLEWORLD for prep and double up on your adderall before you take the test again. Good luck!

Again, I don't think her priorities should force her to choose between weaning or delaying graduation.

Delaying graduation because you want to take time off with your kids is great! Delaying graduation because you can't take a test in reasonable conditions unless you wean your kid is a bit extreme to me. I really cared about breastfeeding with my kids and would certainly not have weaned just so I could take a test; some people don't care about it that much and would wean without second thoughts and that's OK for them.

As for baby boomers, their moms drank and smoked the whole pregnancy too, and they turned out OK... Sure, formula is nowadays well-designed, very nutritious, and a fantastic alternative to breastmilk, but again, weaning just to take a one-day test when very simple accomodations could be made is too much to ask, but that's just me.

Alright, I'm off. Nice talking to you! Good night.

 

[BabyBop]

Judging from the rest of the facts, I doubt that breastfeeding is her real issue. In fact, I tend to think that if this is a woman who has had to pay people to read to her due to her ADHD as others pointed out, (keeping in mind other people cope with ADHD just fine by exercising, yoga, medication if worse come to worse on their own. I know because I have some very good friends in real life that have admitted to having to cope with this disease for years), and if this is a woman who has also had dyslexia and failed once before, then it is reasonable to assume that there is a good possibility she's not really doing this in the name of breastfeeding mothers and possibly wants the extra time for other reasons.

Besides, she already had a child once before and she coped so how come she can't cope now?

Well yes, I agree on all that. I wasn't defending HER in particular (I do agree that she seems to be pushing it), but breastfeeding moms in general. She's taking the test over 2 days so it's not as much of a problem with her half-days, but Step 2 CS without additional breaks, for a new mom, would be... interesting. Let's hope the standardized patients don't mind when the test-taker's boobs start shooting milk...

As for someone who asked about night feedings, your body adjusts and produces a little less at night and more in the day. It's amazing, actually. But if she is nursing her baby every 2 or 3 hours in the day, she will produce that much milk on that day, whether she pumps or not. And breasts get full and overflow. I've soaked my share of clothes back in the day...

 

[MadameLULU]

Hey guys, let's keep this thread on track and be respectful of others.

 

[BabyBop]

Hehe, that's funny Coastie. I doubt this woman has enough time to argue with people on this board. I doubt she cares, honestly... But again, I'm not defending her!!! I just have a problem with the refusal of the board to consider accomodations for ANY breastfeeding mom.

Super-pump her breasts before the test would just make matters worse, by the way. And as for "minor breast discomfort", imagine your breasts (or more properly some other paired, rounded body part - I'm assuming you're male) triple in size and get hard as rock, and make it unbearable for even clothes to touch them, and that's more what engorgement feels like.

Again, I would like to ask: imagine she is first in her class, has never taken the test before, and isn't receiving any accomodations. Would you still find it ridiculous for her to ask for extra break time? It seems many of you still would, and I'm surprised by that but I'd love to hear your opinions. By the way, I'm pretty sure one can get extra break time for breastfeeding/pumping on the MCAT.

 

[BabyBop]

Mom breast feeds baby while she is taking a test=Half-assed mom

Wow...

 

[Miami_med]

I pumped AND had mastitis three times. Just proves what I said before. Not every woman is the same, so you can't judge her based on your wife's experience.

Nobodies experience is the same. We all come from different places with different strengths, weaknesses, advantages, and disadvantages. If you make the argument that we need a standard (aka: every doctor has to take a licensing exam which is an argument for a different day), then you set a minimum standard, and everyone has to meet it. Period. If the test is necessary, the minimum should be the same. The test is supposed to weed through all this garbage and say, "competent or incompetent," Giving people special advantages completely eliminates the whole point of the test.

If someone has a back problem, should they get extra time to stretch. If I have overactive bladder, should I get extra bathroom breaks. We could take it to an extreme. What if I get hit by a car and develope full retrograde amnesia? Can I use my book during the test to answer the questions that I would have known but now forgot due to my disability. It's garbage. Period. The test has breaks, and I would recommend using them for whatever satisfies your bodies needs. This includes food, calling home to take care of whatever worries you, taking a crap, or pumping your breasts. Heck, if she has a supportive spouse I don't care if he brings the baby and she just feeds him. There's a ten minute break per section, which would be sufficient. No one is saying she can't feed the baby. She just shouldn't get special accomodations to do it.

I am firm in my belief that ALL people should have equal protection under the law. This includes men and women. Women have made great contributions as both MDs and PhDs. However, an argument for equality is exactly the reason she can't have special concessions. Having children is a choice. I promise that the struggles of getting through school with children is a "disadvantage," in the academnic sense. I know. It is still a choice. If you choose to have children, God bless. I did, and I don't regret it. This doesn't however give me or anyone else an excuse to fall below the minimum standard. Either dump the standard or apply it equally.

 

[OB1🤙]

Again, I would like to ask: imagine she is first in her class, has never taken the test before, and isn't receiving any accomodations. Would you still find it ridiculous for her to ask for extra break time? It seems many of you still would, and I'm surprised by that but I'd love to hear your opinions.

SHE ALREADY GETS EXTRA GODDAMN BREAK TIME, SHE GETS TO TAKE THE %$%@^ING TEST OVER TWO &*&(*&#ING DAYS INSTEAD OF ONE.

It's an 8 hour test. So she gets, what 4 hours per day of test time? So she gets, what, 2 hours->break->2 hours->BREAK FOR A WHOLE GODDAMN NIGHT->2 hours->break->2 hours->done.

Yeah, actually, I think that's completely fair whether she's AOA or on the fast track to family med in rural Mississippi, and that she'll somehow, someway, find a few precious minutes to pump herself somewhere in that grueling schedule.

Holy hell.

This kind of thing really grinds my gears.

 

[Yehosh]

"If we are variable in the time that's allotted to trainees, we alter the performance of the examination," board spokeswoman Dr. Ruth Hoppe said.

I think this quote says it all and makes a lot of sense. Breast feeding rights (not sure exactly what that means) are not the issue. The issue is the fact that these extra breaks affect the overall performance as stated by Dr. Hoppe.

The fact that she has already failed this exam once is all the more reason why no further exceptions should be made the second time around. I'm sure we can all agree that licensing a physician is not something to be taken lightly, despite any sympathy we might feel for her predicament.

 

[BabyBop]

SHE ALREADY GETS EXTRA GODDAMN BREAK TIME, SHE GETS TO TAKE THE %$%@^ING TEST OVER TWO &*&(*&#ING DAYS INSTEAD OF ONE.

It's an 8 hour test. So she gets, what 4 hours per day of test time? So she gets, what, 2 hours->break->2 hours->BREAK FOR A WHOLE GODDAMN NIGHT->2 hours->break->2 hours->done.

Yeah, actually, I think that's completely fair whether she's AOA or on the fast track to family med in rural Mississippi, and that she'll somehow, someway, find a few precious minutes to pump herself somewhere in that grueling schedule.

Holy hell.

This kind of thing really grinds my gears.

For the hundredth time, yes she takes it over 2 days. She can do it. SHE'S THE ONLY ONE. I agree with you, it's not fair for her to get extra break time.

For the REGULAR student, it's just not enough breaks. That's why I bring up the point of another woman. NOT FOR HER. For someone else WITHOUT ANY OTHER ACCOMODATIONS.

 

[BabyBop]

"If we are variable in the time that's allotted to trainees, we alter the performance of the examination," board spokeswoman Dr. Ruth Hoppe said.

I think this quote says it all and makes a lot of sense. Breast feeding rights (not sure exactly what that means) are not the issue. The issue is the fact that these extra breaks affect the overall performance as stated by Dr. Hoppe.

Thanks, that was a good point. I'm still not convinced, personally, that this kind of a break gives one an advantage (setting up the pump as fast as possible, pumping in a dirty bathroom, cleaning up as fast as possible, etc. is not exactly a walk outside in the fresh air), but I do get their point. Thanks again.

 

[SPTrainer]

If the test being referred to is Step 2CS, I can speak to the subject having witnessed over 2000 encounters.

I was the initial Standardized Patient Trainer at the Atlanta CS facility and will vouch for the fact ECFMG and NBME bend over backwards to accomodate special needs 'physicians.'

What I will also state is it is a ridiculous exam for US Medical students as the fail rate is so low the test isn't really valid.


Most people who fail do so where bedside manners and English come in. Though SP's are highly trained, they are still human, I can't help but think the SP's were in an uncomfortable position as soon as the 8.5 months pregnant woman walked into the room. This most certainly would have been reflected in scoring.

Was she able to properly drape patients?
What if she dropped something?
Could she assist an overweight individual up and down?
etc.

This girl is looking for excuses...period

 

[BabyBop]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyBop
I'm surprised that, as a future OB/GYN...

LeeBurnett's Law!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyBop
...I find it a bit hypocritical that a MEDICAL board wouldn't support breastfeeding.

x2 FTW!!!

I'm sorry, I don't understand that. Can someone explain? Did I say something wrong? By the way, when I said medical board I was referring to the NBME, not SDN.

 

[baylormed]

Nobodies experience is the same. We all come from different places with different strengths, weaknesses, advantages, and disadvantages. If you make the argument that we need a standard (aka: every doctor has to take a licensing exam which is an argument for a different day), then you set a minimum standard, and everyone has to meet it. Period. If the test is necessary, the minimum should be the same. The test is supposed to weed through all this garbage and say, "competent or incompetent," Giving people special advantages completely eliminates the whole point of the test.

If someone has a back problem, should they get extra time to stretch. If I have overactive bladder, should I get extra bathroom breaks. We could take it to an extreme. What if I get hit by a car and develope full retrograde amnesia? Can I use my book during the test to answer the questions that I would have known but now forgot due to my disability. It's garbage. Period. The test has breaks, and I would recommend using them for whatever satisfies your bodies needs. This includes food, calling home to take care of whatever worries you, taking a crap, or pumping your breasts. Heck, if she has a supportive spouse I don't care if he brings the baby and she just feeds him. There's a ten minute break per section, which would be sufficient. No one is saying she can't feed the baby. She just shouldn't get special accomodations to do it.

I am firm in my belief that ALL people should have equal protection under the law. This includes men and women. Women have made great contributions as both MDs and PhDs. However, an argument for equality is exactly the reason she can't have special concessions. Having children is a choice. I promise that the struggles of getting through school with children is a "disadvantage," in the academnic sense. I know. It is still a choice. If you choose to have children, God bless. I did, and I don't regret it. This doesn't however give me or anyone else an excuse to fall below the minimum standard. Either dump the standard or apply it equally.

This is debatable up to a certain extent.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Yes, I believe she has breastfed before, but has she breastfed and been required to take a 9 hour exam before?

No one is forcing her to take the exam. She can take it when she is done breastfeeding her child if it is really such a problem for her.

 

[baylormed]

No one is forcing her to take the exam. She can take it when she is done breastfeeding her child if it is really such a problem.

What is a little (okay, a lot) ridiculous is that she is taking the exam in two parts, which means she'll only be there for what...5 hours max each day?

It's hard to believe she never goes w/o pumping every 2 hours...when does the woman sleep? There are people who pump in advance for situations like this. It's the most logical thing to do.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

For the hundredth time, yes she takes it over 2 days. She can do it. SHE'S THE ONLY ONE. I agree with you, it's not fair for her to get extra break time.

For the REGULAR student, it's just not enough breaks. That's why I bring up the point of another woman. NOT FOR HER. For someone else WITHOUT ANY OTHER ACCOMODATIONS.

I think that's the problem with the details given in the article. It's not clear to me that they wouldn't have given her extra accommodations for pumping if she didn't already get the two-day deal. I'm assuming they consider each case individually, and I wouldn't be surprised if her prior accommodations are figuring into their decision. I hate to say it, but it's too bad for nursing mothers that she's the person pushing this.

 

[no-see-um]

What is a little (okay, a lot) ridiculous is that she is taking the exam in two parts, which means she'll only be there for what...5 hours max each day?

It's hard to believe she never goes w/o pumping every 2 hours...when does the woman sleep? There are people who pump in advance for situations like this. It's the most logical thing to do.

Suppose she does just that. Pump in advance, and then use the break to do what she needs.

Maybe there won't even be a problem. I am all for reasonable accommodations for those who can't perform certain life functions because of disabilities (I have advocated for persons with disabilities in the past), but it appears that she is already being accommodated for ADHD and the test is broken up into two days for her. That is quite a long break, actually.

I believe that this could be done- that she could take this test and do what she needs lactation-wise. At this point, it may be important just to take the exam and if there is a medical issue during the exam, she would - on its face- have to get that time back and deal with that issue. She could then question the validity of the test, as well, at that point. So they may need to have a third party health professional present should an issue arise- almost like as in boxing when a fighter becomes injured- to stop the fight, so to speak.

I think it should be the Board's objective to administer a fair test with reasonable accommodations for this lady, and to administer one that will be respected and valid when all is done- and one that does not embarass the test-taker should a medical issue arise.

Still, perhaps this test can be offerred at another time for her? Reasonable accommodations, even if they are granted, do NOT have to be the same as that which she requests- for instance- if they conflict with the integrity of the examination. They could offer her another day to take the exam with the original accommodations for her ADD. I'm sure her residency would review options regarding a possible maternity leave, and the Board may even consider that as well.

I just want to say that there are options...

 

[no-see-um]

I hate to say it, but it's too bad for nursing mothers that she's the person pushing this.

You can't choose your representative. But this lady is real and her issue is real. I think there really should be some sort of medical arbitration as to what accommodations she actually would need for the breast-feeding issue. The ADHD issue is already decided. They're supposed to be taken separately, but one could say that the accommodation for the ADHD (breaking the exam into 2 days) could also serve as a synchronous accommodation for the lactation, with a few modifications perhaps in the proctoring to protect her physical health.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Still, perhaps this test can be offerred at another time for her? Reasonable accommodations, even if they are granted, do NOT have to be the same as that which she requests- for instance- if they conflict with the integrity of the examination. They could offer her another day to take the exam

You *book your own test date* for the USMLE, so there is no issue with rigidity of test dates. It's a computer-based test and as long as the testing center has free consoles (there's an online calendar system) then you can take the test on that day. This woman is clearly out of her mind and I am ashamed to call her a peer. Seriously, talk about lack of planning and foresight. She's had a kid before! And to take the test 2 weeks before delivery??? And she can't sleep for more than a 4 hour stretch without developing mastitis?? I hope she fails again, even though she won't -- the whole world has and will continue to bend and accommodate her in every respect possible.

As for the whole mudphud thing, she got her PhD at Harvard before starting the MD, not staggered as some people surmised.

On a tangentially related note, this reminds me of the person at Drexel who failed Step 1 3 times and had to sue the NBME to get her extra time for it:
http://www.dyslexia-adults.com/a52.html

Preliminary googling says she's now an EM resident at Hahnemann hospital, so I guess she somehow hauled ass.

 

[no-see-um]

You *book your own test date* for the USMLE, so there is no issue with rigidity of test dates. It's a computer-based test and as long as the testing center has free consoles (there's an online calendar system) then you can take the test on that day. This woman is clearly out of her mind and I am ashamed to call her a peer. Seriously, talk about lack of planning and foresight. She's had a kid before! And to take the test 2 weeks before delivery??? And she can't sleep for more than a 4 hour stretch without developing mastitis?? I hope she fails again, even though she won't -- the whole world has and will continue to bend and accommodate her in every respect possible.

As for the whole mudphud thing, she got her PhD at Harvard before starting the MD, not staggered as some people surmised.

On a tangentially related note, this reminds me of the person at Drexel who failed Step 1 3 times and had to sue the NBME to get her extra time for it:
http://www.dyslexia-adults.com/a52.html

Preliminary googling says she's now an EM resident at Hahnemann hospital, so I guess she somehow hauled ass.

YOU BOOK YOUR OWN TEST DATE?! She could actually make her own accommodation if that is the case. (Sorry for the surprise- I'm in the Pharmacy profession, but found this topic interesting when I saw this lady being interviewed on MSNBC a few days ago)

So wait.. She could book her own test. That, in itself, is a testing accommodation!! There is a so-called family planning aspect to having children and breast-feeding, and work. I am very much for the Americans with Disabilities Act, but now I must really think she did not plan well.

If it were my decision, I'd offer her the chance to make a new testing date and plan accordingly with her residency, without any amendment whatsoever to what was already agreed on with regards to the ADHD accommodation, and alert the proctors (with her permission of course) to her lactating condition and the possible need for medical help if there is an issue (assuming that health professionals will find the timing and duration of pumping before the exam, and the split between exam days, reasonable). That is a reasonable accommodation to me, at least.

As much as it hurts me to say this... I think she's being unreasonable. There's not a program or test on earth that would not let her have her child and then take the test. THAT would be the ultimate lawsuit...

 

[Abilene85]

Again, I would like to ask: imagine she is first in her class, has never taken the test before, and isn't receiving any accomodations. Would you still find it ridiculous for her to ask for extra break time? It seems many of you still would, and I'm surprised by that but I'd love to hear your opinions.

I used to run cross-country. I have bad knees, but I can finish the race…will you knock a couple minutes off each mile to keep a level playing field?

I might get torn apart and called an insensitive whatever for this comment. This is my opinion, and I don't mean to sound ranty (though it might read that way).

I think that everyone, no matter their situation, should have the exact same test conditions. When do we stop making special accommodations for people with disabilities? The real world will come eventually, and if someone can’t keep up in school for whatever reason, what makes them think they’ll keep up in real life? America is so PC/equal opportunity these days when the fact is, life isn’t fair. Other countries seem to know this, but we don’t want to talk about it here. Everyone can’t become a doctor. This is medicine, people’s lives. We’re not talking about accounting.

Specifically regarding the breast-pumping: I don’t feel she (or any other nursing mothers – top of their class or bottom) should be given extra break time for pumping. I know this can cause problems (my breasts hurt just thinking about it…ouch!), but I still think the rules should be the same for everyone. She knows in advance that she has the potential for health problems during the exam and is trying to arrange for that not to happen. But what happens when someone wakes up on test day with some serious intestinal cramping and diarrhea? Is only one of those people entitled to a little extra bathroom time to alleviate their pain?

I know there is really no good time in our medical education to have a child. If you plan for a baby, try to plan around big events. If you don’t plan for it, just remember that life happens. Do what you need to do. Suck it up and take the test with 45 mins break like everyone else or take some time off to be a new mom and pick up later where you left off.


As for diarrhea on test day…well I don’t know what you would really do about that. Drug up and hope for the best.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

She has a whiny blog here:

http://accomodatenursing.blogspot.com/

 

[Coastie]

Wow.

 

[Coastie]

Unbelievable.

 

[Miami_med]

This is debatable up to a certain extent.

She is a Harvard MD/PhD, so I'm assuming she knows where babies come from.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Link to this thread and the Sociopolitical forum thread has been posted in the comments of her blog.

 

[gujuDoc]

Well yes, I agree on all that. I wasn't defending HER in particular (I do agree that she seems to be pushing it), but breastfeeding moms in general. She's taking the test over 2 days so it's not as much of a problem with her half-days, but Step 2 CS without additional breaks, for a new mom, would be... interesting. Let's hope the standardized patients don't mind when the test-taker's boobs start shooting milk...

As for someone who asked about night feedings, your body adjusts and produces a little less at night and more in the day. It's amazing, actually. But if she is nursing her baby every 2 or 3 hours in the day, she will produce that much milk on that day, whether she pumps or not. And breasts get full and overflow. I've soaked my share of clothes back in the day...

Well if your post is directed to people other then her who actually do have a dilemma then yes I will say you have some good points. However, my problem is this particular person. It is women like her who give men a reason to judge us women by saying we are incapable or want our cake and to be able to eat it to. But I don't think she represents all women everywhere.

 

[gujuDoc]

She has a whiny blog here:

http://accomodatenursing.blogspot.com/

haha most of the responses on there were agreeing with us too and told her to suck it up and a lot of these posts were from breastfeeding mothers some of whom were in the medical field.

 

[Blade28]

I'm torn by these kinds of issues. Part of me wants to sympathize, feel bad for her, recognize all she's been through, etc.

The other part of me just thinks she's one of those people - like many others - who dreams of going into a certain profession, but for whatever reason, can't. That's OK - there's nothing wrong with that.

I've used a similar argument when discussing Casey Martin, the pro golfer who had exemptions made to ride a cart instead of walk during tournaments (due to Klippel-Trenaunay-Weber in his left leg). I mean, yeah, I sympathize, but isn't he just another example of a great athlete who just doesn't QUITE have enough to make it to the highest level?

There are blind physicians (e.g. in Internal Medicine, Psychiatry). There are surgeons without legs (who use prostheses). There are those who are deaf, color-blind, mute, etc.

But come on, we have to draw the line somewhere - you wouldn't want a blind surgeon operating on you, would you?

 

[no-see-um]

Link to this thread and the Sociopolitical forum thread has been posted in the comments of her blog.

This thread's trajectory and dialogue is actually better, at least in my opinion, than the one I posted in the sociopolitical forum.

 

[gujuDoc]

I'm torn by these kinds of issues. Part of me wants to sympathize, feel bad for her, recognize all she's been through, etc.

The other part of me just thinks she's one of those people - like many others - who dreams of going into a certain profession, but for whatever reason, can't. That's OK - there's nothing wrong with that.

I've used a similar argument when discussing Casey Martin, the pro golfer who had exemptions made to ride a cart instead of walk during tournaments (due to Klippel-Trenaunay-Weber in his left leg). I mean, yeah, I sympathize, but isn't he just another example of a great athlete who just doesn't QUITE have enough to make it to the highest level?

There are blind physicians (e.g. in Internal Medicine, Psychiatry). There are surgeons without legs (who use prostheses). There are those who are deaf, color-blind, mute, etc.

But come on, we have to draw the line somewhere - you wouldn't want a blind surgeon operating on you, would you?

I totally hear ya. I doubt the day will come when a blind physician is able to be a surgeon. I only know of one case where a person was allowed in a US med school who was blind and that was the guy who graduated from Wisconsin. And I read about that case on here somewhere in the preallo forum at some point. He's in a psychiatry residency though.

 

[Blade28]

I totally hear ya. I doubt the day will come when a blind physician is able to be a surgeon. I only know of one case where a person was allowed in a US med school who was blind and that was the guy who graduated from Wisconsin. And I read about that case on here somewhere in the preallo forum at some point. He's in a psychiatry residency though.

Yeah. I mean, props to the person with a significant disadvantage who's able to rise above it, conquer it, and do the same job as his/her fellow physician.

But I want everything else to be equal - I'm not a fan of lowering standards or easing guidelines or changing rules to accomodate people.

But now I'm about to get into my AA rant, so don't get me started.

 

[Abilene85]

How can a blind person practice medicine? Even psychiatry. This is coming from someone who has never seen a psychiatrist in action, but I imagine there are certain visual cues that are important for treatment of some patients.

 

[Blade28]

How can a blind person practice medicine? Even psychiatry. This is coming from someone who has never seen a psychiatrist in action, but I imagine there are certain visual cues that are important for treatment of some patients.

Yeah, I don't know how this works. But apparently it happens!

 

[Yehosh]

How can a blind person practice medicine? Even psychiatry. This is coming from someone who has never seen a psychiatrist in action, but I imagine there are certain visual cues that are important for treatment of some patients.

I think that wasn't a great example, but this article says there have been 3 blind MD graduates in the US, one of them practicing psychiatry
http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/july2000/blind.htm
I was surprised to discover this fact. But it is actually a very inteteresting article that goes into detail of how the school (Wisconsin) made adjustments to accomodate the blind student.

Clearly, it is a very different situation then one this pregnant woman is in

 

[Depakote]

How can a blind person practice medicine? Even psychiatry. This is coming from someone who has never seen a psychiatrist in action, but I imagine there are certain visual cues that are important for treatment of some patients.

Histo must have been an interesting class.

 

[Blade28]

Histo must have been an interesting class.

Or the whole "inspection" part of the physical exam.

Or pathology.

Or learning about jaundice, flushing, bronze diabetes, coffee-ground emesis, melena, anemic pallor, caput medusae, and pale conjunctivae.

Or the Grey Turner sign, Cullen sign, cafe-au-lait spots, etc.

I could go on and on.

 

[gujuDoc]

Or the whole "inspection" part of the physical exam.

Or pathology.

Or learning about jaundice, flushing, bronze diabetes, coffee-ground emesis, melena, anemic pallor, caput medusae, and pale conjunctivae.

Or the Grey Turner sign, Cullen sign, cafe-au-lait spots, etc.

I could go on and on.

Yeah I know. I found it odd that that guy was admitted to med school being blind but whatever. I bet he had an assistant like this lady to do his path exams for him and the things that required sight.

 

[Abilene85]

I think that wasn't a great example, but this article says there have been 3 blind MD graduates in the US, one of them practicing psychiatry http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/july2000/blind.htm

I was surprised to discover this fact. But it is actually a very inteteresting article that goes into detail of how the school (Wisconsin) made adjustments to accomodate the blind student.

That is a very interesting article. The guy seems really nice and intelligent - a great person. He is definitely an inspiration. But at the same time, I feel like it is another example of the special accommodations that are made for people with disabilities during their education - accommodations that won't hold up in the real world. You can convert images to raised-line drawings and teach him to “see” all this stuff in his head, but can he see a discoloration on skin that suggests a person should be tested for skin cancer? If he needs to look at histology slides in the hospital, someone will need to convert it to another format or describe it to him. I just can’t imagine this to be an efficient system.

On a positive note, it seems his enrolling in medical school helped advance educational techniques for the blind. And I hope that the school learned a thing or two they could incorporate into their teaching techniques for the other students.

I don’t like being one of the “you can’t do that” people. My problem is that there are so many qualified applicants to medical school that aren’t accepted. A blind person could enter a similar field by becoming a psychologist and open a seat up for a seeing person that can perform surgery, etc. Don’t we all have to be declared “physically able to practice medicine” before we enroll? I think blindness would be a problem there.


I’m waiting for my Tim Cordes, the blind medical student made-for-TV movie. Where is it?

 

[gujuDoc]

Yeah. I mean, props to the person with a significant disadvantage who's able to rise above it, conquer it, and do the same job as his/her fellow physician.

But I want everything else to be equal - I'm not a fan of lowering standards or easing guidelines or changing rules to accomodate people.

But now I'm about to get into my AA rant, so don't get me started.

 

[gujuDoc]

Hehe, that's funny Coastie. I doubt this woman has enough time to argue with people on this board. I doubt she cares, honestly... But again, I'm not defending her!!! I just have a problem with the refusal of the board to consider accomodations for ANY breastfeeding mom.

Super-pump her breasts before the test would just make matters worse, by the way. And as for "minor breast discomfort", imagine your breasts (or more properly some other paired, rounded body part - I'm assuming you're male) triple in size and get hard as rock, and make it unbearable for even clothes to touch them, and that's more what engorgement feels like.

Again, I would like to ask: imagine she is first in her class, has never taken the test before, and isn't receiving any accomodations. Would you still find it ridiculous for her to ask for extra break time? It seems many of you still would, and I'm surprised by that but I'd love to hear your opinions. By the way, I'm pretty sure one can get extra break time for breastfeeding/pumping on the MCAT.

Why would she post a blog with activating the comments section if she doesn't want to respond to people??? Was she hoping everyone would jump on the bandwagon and tell her what she wants to hear??

 

[Medical Editor]

I understand completely about the need for extra time for tests because of AD/HD, because I live in the House of AD/HD. It seems that many here have never lived with anyone who has it. If they had, they'd understand.

When I was still breastfeeding and not yet self-employed, I attended a daylong conference. I took time to express milk, but not often enough, and good grief, were my breasts ever painfully full when I got back home. Employers and our male-oriented society have yet to truly treat parents—especially mothers, employed or not—respectfully. If there weren't any parents, there wouldn't be any future physicians and dentists and pharmacists. And most of those parents both need and want to work at satisfying careers, such as medicine.

Medical Editor