NEW cush/easy transitional year list!

[melonaid]

So I have been searching this site for some of the more "cush" transitional years...meaning ones that don't have terrible schedules. The lists I find are 3 - 7 years old. I am wondering if you all could help me update this list by letting me know which transitional year programs out there are schedule friendly? The only one I really know of is Spokane, Washington. Thanks so much!

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[eyesupply]

This is a problem with ophthalmology residents. Many of them are so lazy. They are looking for the cushiest internship, not the most academically beneficial to them. Once in residency, some try their utmost to do as little work as possible. Some will see a glaucoma patient and try to get the resident seeing them in a few months to do the refraction or gonio. Some residents just want to do cataract surgery and . Ophthalmology is far more than a cushy internship and phaco. Optometrists should not laugh in reading this. They are lazy (or afraid or too timid) and didn't want to go to medical school and know everything there is to know about eyes.

The internships that one should seek are the most academically challenging, the ones with many patients and a variety of patients, and the ones that work you to death. After all, residencies are supposed to limit hours so the 100 hour per week residency and the every other night call is the thing of the past. In the late 90's, according to younger surgery faculty members who trained then, there were surgery residencies where there were 2 busy trauma services, even and odd nights, so up every other night. Those people know the fine details of trauma unlike the cushier program graduates on programs who have no trauma but think they know it.

 

[OMD]

I'm not sure if that last post was a joke or not, but if not, pray you aren't in residency with him. You should seek an intern year where they work you to death? Alternatively, one could elect to enjoy your last year of relative freedom until retirement, learn what you can, and know that you will use very little of your medicine year as far as the nuts and bolts of caring for really sick patients in the hospital. We work in a largely outpatient field. In general, unless you are going into plastics or retina, you will see little of an actual hospital. Comprehensive, cornea, peds, vast majority of glaucoma? Wait until the patient is well enough for their usually elective surgery. You may fancy yourself able to take care of your patients' medical problems but the longer you are out, the more you will rely on the PCP to take care of these problems so you can focus on your area of expertise. Do you really need that many more pneumonia patients, DKA, and the like to practice ophtho? Not bloody likely. It's not like you aren't going to get any exposure at some "easier" programs. That being said, enjoy your elective months. Take a vacation someplace fun. Do your intern year someplace fun. Work your ***** off in residency. That is when you need to work and you need to have the inner motivation to do so, and not just because you go to a program that demands it. If you require someone else to work you to death in the field you choose, you have your own set of issues.
So, without further ado,
Presbyterian in Denver. Gotta be near your top. Great city, great, great program.
Carillion in Roanoke, VA if you don't mind a small city
Birmingham, AL Baptist Hospital

Also, a fun city can make up for a completely cush year.

http://www.internyear.com/page.php?id=10

 

[speyeder]

This is a problem with ophthalmology residents. Many of them are so lazy. They are looking for the cushiest internship, not the most academically beneficial to them. Once in residency, some try their utmost to do as little work as possible. Some will see a glaucoma patient and try to get the resident seeing them in a few months to do the refraction or gonio. Some residents just want to do cataract surgery and . Ophthalmology is far more than a cushy internship and phaco. Optometrists should not laugh in reading this. They are lazy (or afraid or too timid) and didn't want to go to medical school and know everything there is to know about eyes.

The internships that one should seek are the most academically challenging, the ones with many patients and a variety of patients, and the ones that work you to death. After all, residencies are supposed to limit hours so the 100 hour per week residency and the every other night call is the thing of the past. In the late 90's, according to younger surgery faculty members who trained then, there were surgery residencies where there were 2 busy trauma services, even and odd nights, so up every other night. Those people know the fine details of trauma unlike the cushier program graduates on programs who have no trauma but think they know it.

Ophthalmology residents shouldn't be singled out as being lazy. Seeking cushy internships is a phenomenon seen in other competitive fields like dermatology, rad onc, & radiology. Perhaps it is a sign of our times that medical students today place a higher value on work/life balance.

 

[junkemail86]

Easy:
Carney transitional
Carney prelim
Tufts Brockton transitional
Tufts Shattuck transitional

Slightly less easy:
Cambridge transitional
Metrowest transitional (lots of peds)

 

[Frumps]

I would agree with a lot of what OMD has said, but, I also did a lot of work in the hospital as a ophtho resident. I had a difficult internship and it actually came in quite handy when admitting postop patients to the hospital, prescribing meds, seeing trauma in the ER, consults, etc. It's not necessary for ophtho residency, but I was actually glad for the experience.

 

[MastahRiz]

If you're looking for an easy internship, chances are you're just plain lazy and you'll probably be lazy in your ophtho residency too.

I just hope you're never my doctor.

 

[odieoh]

I can see both sides of this argument. I did the private transitional year in Tucson, and it had several months of hellaciously long, intense interning. Most notable was the trauma surgery month in which we pretty much went over the 80 hour limit every week, including one week in which I was on for 106 hours.

On the other hand we had a few nice elective months, including an interventional radiology month in which I probably spent a total of 20 hours all month in the actual clinic/hosptal (incidentally during my brief few hours of observation I saw someone have a brain aneurysm ruptured during an elective coiling procedure. . .yow).

The rest of the months were pretty standard, putting in 60-70 hours.

So, given that spectrum, would I recommend a busy or cush year? Well, first of all lets be serious, what is an "academically challenging" intern year? Generally there is little academics involved, you are doing scutwork for the most part and that is it. It definitely helps you learn the flow of admitting patients and working within the system of any given hospital, but you don't need to work 100 hour weeks to learn that.

So as far as being prepared to be an ophthalmologist, I don't see a whole lot of added value in doing a super intense intern year. I do look back fondly on the month of trauma surgery, it was a great experience to just be completely involved in the rotation and kind of get a feel for what medicine was like "back in the day" with no hours restrictions. It was great....for a month. I would not have wanted to do a whole year of that. I also look back fondly on the month of IR and having a great time relaxing.

Bottom line, I can see why people are concerned that ophtho residents are seeking out the easiest possible intern year. it gives an impression of poor work ethic. On the other hand I don't think that by doing so those residents are missing out on any true education that will make much of a difference as ophthalmologists.

 

[Neuronix]

The haughty attitude of this thread has compelled me to post.

I interviewed at the Spokane program and it was so sweet I ranked it #1.

My opinions of places now that my rank list is in:
Akron General -- Super cushy, cushiest place I interviewed at I think. The chief was like "you should come here, this will be the cushiest program ever next year."
Reading Hospital -- Really cush, $80/mo dorm room, free meals, ridiculously awesome!

Also I thought seemed really cush:
Aurora St. Luke's (Milwaukee)
St. Joseph's Chicago (Not as cush but SWEET location)
University of North Dakota, Fargo... I mean if you will live anywhere for a cush TY this is the place.

Thought Harbor-UCLA is overrated on cushness. They have this weird system where they seem to force you into not cush electives.
Albert Einstein in north Philly seems decent with an ok location assuming you're ok with subway commuting. Inpatient months are busy though.

and if you really want to check out a cush prelim med program try Lankenau in Philly. 5 months of electives in a prelim med program?! Really?! That's cushier than a lot of TYs!

 

[RedEyez]

I can see both sides of this argument. I did the private transitional year in Tucson, and it had several months of hellaciously long, intense interning. Most notable was the trauma surgery month in which we pretty much went over the 80 hour limit every week, including one week in which I was on for 106 hours.

On the other hand we had a few nice elective months, including an interventional radiology month in which I probably spent a total of 20 hours all month in the actual clinic/hosptal (incidentally during my brief few hours of observation I saw someone have a brain aneurysm ruptured during an elective coiling procedure. . .yow).

The rest of the months were pretty standard, putting in 60-70 hours.

So, given that spectrum, would I recommend a busy or cush year? Well, first of all lets be serious, what is an "academically challenging" intern year? Generally there is little academics involved, you are doing scutwork for the most part and that is it. It definitely helps you learn the flow of admitting patients and working within the system of any given hospital, but you don't need to work 100 hour weeks to learn that.

So as far as being prepared to be an ophthalmologist, I don't see a whole lot of added value in doing a super intense intern year. I do look back fondly on the month of trauma surgery, it was a great experience to just be completely involved in the rotation and kind of get a feel for what medicine was like "back in the day" with no hours restrictions. It was great....for a month. I would not have wanted to do a whole year of that. I also look back fondly on the month of IR and having a great time relaxing.

Bottom line, I can see why people are concerned that ophtho residents are seeking out the easiest possible intern year. it gives an impression of poor work ethic. On the other hand I don't think that by doing so those residents are missing out on any true education that will make much of a difference as ophthalmologists.

Agreed! I am currently doing a TY and start ophtho in July. My program is more on the cush side (2 easy medicine months, 3 elective months, family month etc....... but has 2 months of hell on earth q4 noncapping level I trauma!) Although I get angry with working 30+ on call and going over 100 hours each week on these 2 months, I have to say that it has made me think on my feet and deal with stressful situations. This may help me next year on stressful ophtho call nights . I had the great experience of doing a lateral canthotomy with cantholysis! (ophtho was 45 min away). So, pick a program that is mostly cush, no need to kill yourself before ophtho.

 

[sidehatch]

Not a big poster on this site, but some of the replies to this thread having me saying . . . .Really?

Cush Year equals lazy? 9 out of 10 pre-lim med/surg residents doing anesthesia, rads, ophtho, rad-onc etc working 80hrs/wk doing 2-3 extra months of night float, an extra month of ICU, q4 call and all the other nuances that come along with being dumped on for being a pre-lim would trade their "academic" learning for an easier year. I personally can't say I have met one that wouldn't. And I have a feeling about the type of person that would. Admitting your 10th CHF pt at 4 am won't make you a more qualified doc to read an MRI or perform PRP I promise you that. However, a "cushier" year may just let you enjoy life and leave you fresher in preparation for the next step in training for your chosen career path.

Anyway, other suggestions for the list in Chicago. . .hard to beat
Resurrection Medical Center
Macneal Hospital

Solid TYs with good amount of elective months

 

[liquidforce138]

John peter smith in Ft. Worth, TX. That place is AWESOME. i ranked it #1 and got my #2. The program director told me during my interview there that someone applying there got a 280 on step 1 though, and they take a lot of UTSW ophtho and rads etc, so it is not that easy to get in.

The program has season tickets to the rangers, they take applicants out to eat for lunch 3 x week and have a budget of 45 bucks per person for lunch. I had filet mignon, the residents ordered 3 appetizers and 3 desserts!

The program director is great. The interns were awesome - the year I interviewed they were all really normal and had a fantasy football league together.

The schedule was awesome and the interns told me they often were out of there on non call days by 12 or 1. When you are on it is busy, but when you are not it sounded awesome.

Anyway that was a good one.

I disagree with tufts lemuel shattuck above. I would not recommend applying or interviewing there unless you HAVE to be in Boston. That place was like an insane asylum when i interviewed there and you have to commute to another hospital in rush hour traffic a few of the months as well.

Grand rapids michigan is a nice, chill program if you don't mind the weather. Sacred heart in spokane is awesome, if you don't mind being in spokane. Travel to my interview was $800! They treat you well, though.

 

[RedEyez]

John peter smith in Ft. Worth, TX. That place is AWESOME. i ranked it #1 and got my #2. The program director told me during my interview there that someone applying there got a 280 on step 1 though, and they take a lot of UTSW ophtho and rads etc, so it is not that easy to get in.

The program has season tickets to the rangers, they take applicants out to eat for lunch 3 x week and have a budget of 45 bucks per person for lunch. I had filet mignon, the residents ordered 3 appetizers and 3 desserts!

The program director is great. The interns were awesome - the year I interviewed they were all really normal and had a fantasy football league together.

The schedule was awesome and the interns told me they often were out of there on non call days by 12 or 1. When you are on it is busy, but when you are not it sounded awesome.

Anyway that was a good one.

I disagree with tufts lemuel shattuck above. I would not recommend applying or interviewing there unless you HAVE to be in Boston. That place was like an insane asylum when i interviewed there and you have to commute to another hospital in rush hour traffic a few of the months as well.

Grand rapids michigan is a nice, chill program if you don't mind the weather. Sacred heart in spokane is awesome, if you don't mind being in spokane. Travel to my interview was $800! They treat you well, though.

I'm an intern at JPS TY now.... I have 17 days off in a row on my ER month .... but like I stated in aprevious post, the 2 months of q4 trauma call can be busy! Overall, a nice program

 

[hoagiedogy]

Anyone know anything about the Transitional Program at St. Joseph's Hospital in Syracuse, NY?

i.e. cush/not-so-cush?

Thanks!

 

[eyeMD6299]

Bassett Hosp in rural Cooperstown, NY was my great TY program. Not cush but fun and humane with great attendings and fellow interns and residents. You're 75 mins from Albany Mall/amenities and long/cold winter but great memories...

 

[FenderB2004]

Would like to add Arrowhead Regional medical center in colton, CA for transitional year. The program director is amazing and really listens and cares about you, 4 months of unrestricted electives (2 can be research, 2 can be away). Basically you have 4 hard months (2 months of medicine and 2 months of surgery). You also have great co-residents and great support staff (especially for a county hospital) with minimal scut work.

 

[ronron15]

Would like to add Arrowhead Regional medical center in colton, CA for transitional year. The program director is amazing and really listens and cares about you, 4 months of unrestricted electives (2 can be research, 2 can be away). Basically you have 4 hard months (2 months of medicine and 2 months of surgery). You also have great co-residents and great support staff (especially for a county hospital) with minimal scut work.

How's Arrowhead's ortho department? I want to make sure if I break my arm in some freak snowboarding accident that I'll be taken care of.

 

[azzarah]

I did a really easy internship. As a result, I was very rested when I started residency and had a ton of energy to work very hard my first year as an ophthalmology resident. In addition, as an intern, I had hours each day to study ophthalmology before I start. I also had a lot of electives which I used on specialities relevant to ophthalmology (such as neuro-radiology, general surgery, and peds).
For those who are bashing the OP, doing a easy internship has nothing to do with laziness or competence. It just has to do with what your priorities are. I have no interest in doing a "tough" internship with lots of call so I can keep getting paged to go put in a central line, order cardiac enzymes, or go check out someone's toe fungus in the middle of the night. I'm going to become an ophthalmologist, not a toe fungus/heart attack/constipation specialist.

 

[niveknat]

Did my internship at Scripps Mercy Hospital in San Diego, CA, which I thought was an excellent TY program. 4-5 months of electives, q10 call on ward months (all were medicine), and no ICU requirement. Electives were as cushy as it gets...average of 3-4 days (sometimes half-days) per week of "duty". Attendings are fabulous, and the teaching is actually great. Ended up matching in SD for both internship and residency, so it was ideal.

I believe this program has been on the "cush lists" before, but just wanted to give it another shoutout.

 

[Oculator]

There could conceivably be some advantages to a tough year too though. I had to do one because my wife was finishing med school in the area and there are no TYs within commuting distance. I ended up in my old stumping ground. q4 call almost every other month. Just for me, q3 call over christmas holiday. One night I got paged over 200 times, while of course having to admit 5 patients, complete their H&Ps, draw ABGs on folks crashing and going to the ICU, etc. Then 27 hrs later you still have to complete daily notes on your 6 old patients, enter orders for the day, and perhaps call a couple of consults too before you leave the building.

There may be one or two schools in the country with tougher programs. One attending once said. "Yes. We make you do the impossible. And that was how xxxxxx xxxxx designed it." Will I do it over again for 1 million dollars. Aw hell no. But looking back, I have to admit I've got some stories. Do I know anything about ophthalmology other than we each have 2 e.d.b.d "i"s ? No. Will I ever catch up. Possibly not. Surviving the process, though. Priceless. For everything else there's mastercard.

 

[Neuronix]

I believe this program has been on the "cush lists" before, but just wanted to give it another shoutout.

Disclaimer: TYs are competitive. Cush TY + cool location = insane levels of competition. I couldn't get one of these, and didn't even get invites for most of these highly desired programs. I thought I was pretty competitive. My guess is that program probably matches mostly AOA, mostly 260+ step 1 kids.

 

[satyaki]

if anybody is thinking about going to Virginia Mason for their PGY1 year especially transitional year (4 outpatient months but otherwise busy) or prelim medicine you can contact me

 

[The Doctor]

I was thinking of just doing my preliminary year at the same place where I matched in order to make friends among the medicine residents, get familiar with the hospital system, not have to move cities twice, really get a firm grasp of inpatient medicine and to start setting down roots in the community. However, a friend of mine doing a preliminary year now at my home institution has been working so hard she is unhappy and says I definitely shouldn't choose the prelim. I do have interviews at cushier transitionals - for those of you who have done either, do you think it would be a dumb choice to choose the preliminary year instead?

 

[ArtfulDodger]

I was thinking of just doing my preliminary year at the same place where I matched in order to make friends among the medicine residents, get familiar with the hospital system, not have to move cities twice, really get a firm grasp of inpatient medicine and to start setting down roots in the community. However, a friend of mine doing a preliminary year now at my home institution has been working so hard she is unhappy and says I definitely shouldn't choose the prelim. I do have interviews at cushier transitionals - for those of you who have done either, do you think it would be a dumb choice to choose the preliminary year instead?

I have heard so many residents, and even attendings, say that the medicine they learned during internship has so little relevance to what they do as ophthalmologists that I personally could not rank ANY medicine program over ANY transitional program, but that's just me. And that's not necessarily being lazy either--there's a difference between laziness and a preference for avoiding unnecessary headaches.

 

[junkemail86]

I have heard so many residents, and even attendings, say that the medicine they learned during internship has so little relevance to what they do as ophthalmologists that I personally could not rank ANY medicine program over ANY transitional program, but that's just me. And that's not necessarily being lazy either--there's a difference between laziness and a preference for avoiding unnecessary headaches.

Agreed. I'm not terribly lazy, but I don't like wasting my time either. People assume that a cush year equates to not learning anything, which is BS. Usually that's a lie propagated by bitter people that did "hardcore" years. I know lots of surgical interns at academic centers that don't get the surgical exposure I do at my cush community transitional year where I work 7-3. And there are much higher Step 3 failure rates at some academic medicine programs than where I am. You will have the time to do whatever you want at an easier program, whether it's attending didactics, studying medicine, studying ophtho, or research. I've mainly done research, which will lead to ~10 journal articles submitted while I'm an intern. I've also read quite a bit of the BCSC and other ophtho texts. At the end of the day it's a personal decision for everybody, but I would do a cush transitional again in a minute.

 

[BPEIpathology]

Agreed. I'm not terribly lazy, but I don't like wasting my time either. People assume that a cush year equates to not learning anything, which is BS. Usually that's a lie propagated by bitter people that did "hardcore" years. I know lots of surgical interns at academic centers that don't get the surgical exposure I do at my cush community transitional year where I work 7-3. And there are much higher Step 3 failure rates at some academic medicine programs than where I am. You will have the time to do whatever you want at an easier program, whether it's attending didactics, studying medicine, studying ophtho, or research. I've mainly done research, which will lead to ~10 journal articles submitted while I'm an intern. I've also read quite a bit of the BCSC and other ophtho texts. At the end of the day it's a personal decision for everybody, but I would do a cush transitional again in a minute.

Sounds like you've had a fantastic experience!

 

[90 diopter]

I've commented on this topic before, and my position remains the same: pick the easiest, nicest transitional year program you can get yourself into, and enjoy a year of freedom before having to hit the grind for another 3+ years. In retrospect, doing a nice intern program was one of the best decisions I have ever made, and that year was the best year of my adult life. Unless you plan on treating hypertension and pneumonia in your eye clinic, it won't make any difference what you do your intern year.

Keep in mind that one of the reasons why some of these prelim years are so difficult is not that you're learning more; it's because you are the errand boy who everyone can dump on because you won't be on that service the next year. Some of my friends who did medicine internships consistently got stuck with the worst ER shifts because the department heads knew they would be gone in a few months.

 

[TheLesPaul]

I've commented on this topic before, and my position remains the same: pick the easiest, nicest transitional year program you can get yourself into, and enjoy a year of freedom before having to hit the grind for another 3+ years. In retrospect, doing a nice intern program was one of the best decisions I have ever made, and that year was the best year of my adult life. Unless you plan on treating hypertension and pneumonia in your eye clinic, it won't make any difference what you do your intern year.

Keep in mind that one of the reasons why some of these prelim years are so difficult is not that you're learning more; it's because you are the errand boy who everyone can dump on because you won't be on that service the next year. Some of my friends who did medicine internships consistently got stuck with the worst ER shifts because the department heads knew they would be gone in a few months.

One reason I'd want to (and plan on) doing a more rigorous intern year is because I want to do global health work in the future. I feel like the more I see, the easier it will be to recognize when it hits me 30 years from now in rural XYZ country. Is this sensical, or am I way off base?

 

[Slide]

Ophtho intern here too. I have a combined prelim year where it's half medicine and half ophthalmology, and I only have to take call on one of those ophtho months. I also thought that having a tough intern year would be helpful in being a good ophthalmologist overall, but now I don't think that's the case anymore. Once you learn the basics of medicine and have a stronger clinical sense of how to judge a patient, you've gotten everything you need from your internship. All the stuff I've learned on my medicine months does make it handier to think about pathophysiology in general, but I don't see how titrating the CVP of a patient or evaluating the Centor criteria are will help me in managing an ophthalmology patient. It's more useful to use that internship time for getting other things done, like research (3 years is not that much time to get a good amount of research done) or getting Step 3 out of the way. When PGY-2 year rolls around, you'll be working just as hard as medicine interns anyway.

Also, if you're a prelim, you'll likely be scutted out, so your "learning" will be answering all the consults and writing all the H&Ps. When the attending finds out you're a prelim, you'll either be ignored most of the time when it comes to teaching or management, given a ton of paperwork to fill out, or be forced to do all the work no one else wants to do (like DREs, pulling out lines, wound checks, vitals gathering, etc.). Plus, if you're a medicine prelim, you'll likely be sent to services where the teams just need extra manpower so the shifts/call can be spread out. I've seen this phenomenon not only at my school, but at other programs my colleagues are at.

I'm not saying an internship is useless; in fact, I think that an internship is vital in being an ophthalmologist. However, most of the "hard work" and "learning" is scutwork that an attending needs done so he can sign and bill.

 

[Slide]

One reason I'd want to (and plan on) doing a more rigorous intern year is because I want to do global health work in the future. I feel like the more I see, the easier it will be to recognize when it hits me 30 years from now in rural XYZ country. Is this sensical, or am I way off base?

Meh, I think getting this experience is more of a matter of luck. You can't control what patients come into the hospital with the rare and exotic conditions. Being on a rigorous service may increase your chances slightly of having such patients, but you'll likely be consulted as an ophthalmology resident later on such patients if there are eye conditions associated with it anyway.

 

[golfman]

I'm somewhat leaning towards doing a tough TY year. My reasoning behind not being scared away from a tough TY year is that I want to know as much "general doctor" stuff as I can. I honestly feel like it will help me be a better overall physician. I'll be more comfortable when family/friends ask my opinion on medical topics not related to the eye, and I'll be better able to relate to my patients in my Ophthalmology clinic when I go over there past medical history and medications. I'll also be able to better handle emergencies I come across in daily life. That being said, this TY year doesn't have a lot of scut work. You see a lot of patients, but you just do the important stuff.

However, another reason I may try to do this tough TY year is for family/financial reasons. So maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into a tough year because it would save me some $$$. Honestly, I'm having a tougher time making my TY rank list than my Ophtho rank list.

 

[junkemail86]

If you have a reason to do a tough intern year, go for it. However, inpatient medicine is not really what you are asked about when family/friends hit you up for advice. They typically do not ask about antibiotic recommendations for a pneumonia or UTI, or how to treat their DKA or small bowel obstruction, etc. They ask about non-urgent matters that they are unsure if they should go to their doctor about. So, if you want to learn about those types of complaints, I recommend doing an ambulatory and/or ED rotation so you know the basic workup and treatment of headache, vomiting/diarrhea, atypical chest pain, shortness of breath, generalized malaise, joint/back pain, etc. that usually doesn't get admitted.

 

[Member 3331313]

So I have been searching this site for some of the more "cush" transitional years...meaning ones that don't have terrible schedules. The lists I find are 3 - 7 years old. I am wondering if you all could help me update this list by letting me know which transitional year programs out there are schedule friendly? The only one I really know of is Spokane, Washington. Thanks so much!

Seems like we got away from the original task at hand. The purpose was to help others find programs they might be interested in, not discuss the pros and cons of an easy year. That being said - anyone have contributions to make to the list?

 

[ILikeEyeballs]

The radiology forums at auntminnie.com have some good cush TY lists

 

[dos palomas]

Deleted.

 

[eyecutter]

.

 

[Gryphes]

A quick question out of curiosity - when people say some of these TYs are competitive, at what level are we talking about? I mean, some people say 260+ AOA, but honestly that's top program competitiveness for actual specialty like optho, rads, or other surgical subspecialties. Is there any good break down or stats that I can refer to? Just trying to figure out what is the reasonable number of programs I should apply to, if I am not restricted by location.

Also, did you guys see any TYs that require Chairman's letter (like Prelim med progrmas)? I saw one here and there, but mostly were Prelim Med in disguise of TY (at least my opinion) and I didn't feel I wanted to apply to those programs. I am simply sending my letters that I am sending to my own specialties. Any thoughts?

 

[Reaganite]

A quick question out of curiosity - when people say some of these TYs are competitive, at what level are we talking about? I mean, some people say 260+ AOA, but honestly that's top program competitiveness for actual specialty like optho, rads, or other surgical subspecialties. Is there any good break down or stats that I can refer to? Just trying to figure out what is the reasonable number of programs I should apply to, if I am not restricted by location.

Also, did you guys see any TYs that require Chairman's letter (like Prelim med progrmas)? I saw one here and there, but mostly were Prelim Med in disguise of TY (at least my opinion) and I didn't feel I wanted to apply to those programs. I am simply sending my letters that I am sending to my own specialties. Any thoughts?

The competitive TYs get so many applications that they cannot possibly review them all. There is definitely a step 1 cut off, and it's definitely high. I know where I did my TY, the PD said he received such a ridiculous number of apps that it was impossible to do much more than rank by Step 1 score and AOA status.

To the other issues addressed in this thread, I'm out of residency now and I did a cush TY...and there wasn't a single day I regretted it. Hell, my TY was the best year of my life bar none. Most of my fellow TY interns had the same mindset I did...that this was our last chance before real life begins. So we did what we had to do in the hospital, and then used all of our free time partying. I was definitely one of those "lazy" interns too. I did just what I had to do and nothing more. Never attended any conferences; fell asleep during lectures for the categoricals. And you know what? It didn't affect me in the least. When I got to my real residency, I tore it up...studied my ass off, worked as hard as I possibly could. The same work ethic that got me into the field I matched into stayed with me when the "real thing" came. And not once did I feel unprepared for my residency because I did a cush TY. Hell, if anything I was more energized to study my field than some of the other residents who were still recovering from the hell of prelim medicine. A few ward months is more than enough to prepare you for the little medicine you'll do in most specialties. In fact, now that I'm an attending, my favorite phrase is "you'll have to ask your PCP."

 

[RestoreSight]

A quick question out of curiosity - when people say some of these TYs are competitive, at what level are we talking about? I mean, some people say 260+ AOA, but honestly that's top program competitiveness for actual specialty like optho, rads, or other surgical subspecialties. Is there any good break down or stats that I can refer to? Just trying to figure out what is the reasonable number of programs I should apply to, if I am not restricted by location.

Also, did you guys see any TYs that require Chairman's letter (like Prelim med progrmas)? I saw one here and there, but mostly were Prelim Med in disguise of TY (at least my opinion) and I didn't feel I wanted to apply to those programs. I am simply sending my letters that I am sending to my own specialties. Any thoughts?

The difference between the competitiveness of a TY vs a ROAD specialty is in the mindset of the program director. When you apply to derm, ophtho, rads, etc the person you interview with wants to know if your a good fit for the long term because he or she will have to work with you for a number of years and maybe longer. The vetting process is greater. For TYs, you're just there one year so basically you're just a body filling in. It's much easier to just rank applicants "by the numbers" and let the process take care of itself. After all, why would a program director of a TY program care if your research is in rads, ophtho or derm? All he cares about is not leaving any slots unfilled and minimizing the interview season.

Expect more ambivolence from TYs. This is reflected in a more artificial ranking of applicants according to STEP scores and AOA

 

[airplanes]

The competitive TYs get so many applications that they cannot possibly review them all. There is definitely a step 1 cut off, and it's definitely high. I know where I did my TY, the PD said he received such a ridiculous number of apps that it was impossible to do much more than rank by Step 1 score and AOA status.

The difference between the competitiveness of a TY vs a ROAD specialty is in the mindset of the program director. When you apply to derm, ophtho, rads, etc the person you interview with wants to know if your a good fit for the long term because he or she will have to work with you for a number of years and maybe longer. The vetting process is greater. For TYs, you're just there one year so basically you're just a body filling in. It's much easier to just rank applicants "by the numbers" and let the process take care of itself. After all, why would a program director of a TY program care if your research is in rads, ophtho or derm? All he cares about is not leaving any slots unfilled and minimizing the interview season.

Expect more ambivolence from TYs. This is reflected in a more artificial ranking of applicants according to STEP scores and AOA

Probably not your intentions, but both of these replies are now stressing me out. Now applying to closer to 20 TYs.

 

[ophthope]

Probably not your intentions, but both of these replies are now stressing me out. Now applying to closer to 20 TYs.

Is that a reasonable number to 'guarantee' you match somewhere? I'd hate to match Ophtho and be scrambling for a TY or Prelim Medicine year somewhere because I didn't apply broadly enough.... and I really don't know what the safe number of programs to apply to is!

 

[doctortom]

I interviewed at 3 prelims and 2 TYs. A lot of ophtho programs will offer you interviews at the TY/prelim programs in the area retrospectively if you match to their program. I was offered interviews at the 3 programs in the city I matched for ophtho even though I didn't apply to them because ophtho dept had an understanding with them. If you can provide a concrete reason for wanting to be at a particular TY (spouse/family/home/advanced program in the area/trained in the area) you have a great shot at securing a TY spot without much effort.

 

[RestoreSight]

Is that a reasonable number to 'guarantee' you match somewhere? I'd hate to match Ophtho and be scrambling for a TY or Prelim Medicine year somewhere because I didn't apply broadly enough.... and I really don't know what the safe number of programs to apply to is!

There is no guaranteed number, but 10-20 is reasonable. It depends where you are in the country too. There are cush TYs in the midwest that are less competitive then in Mass, Cali or Philly. Also, not all TYs are cush! You may be more satisfied with an easy prelim. You have to do research on the subject and there aren't that many good sources other than opinions and the program website. Here are a few things to look for:

(1) the volume of patients has to be low - community hospitals with 100 beds are way easier than big academic centers.

(2) the 'culture' of the hospital is low key - getting pimped all the time sucks. Free time is better spent on research and rest *

(3) the patient population is nice - it's overlooked, but a middle class demographic is easier to work with than an inner city or urban one*

(4) electives - this is not such a big deal it turns out. Most programs offer a few electives, but many 'require' certain electives to be in medical subspecialties so are they even electives?

(5) Nightfloat - it sucks. Any program that requires a full month on nightfloat I say avoid.*

 

[triniman]

John peter smith in Ft. Worth, TX. That place is AWESOME. i ranked it #1 and got my #2. The program director told me during my interview there that someone applying there got a 280 on step 1 though, and they take a lot of UTSW ophtho and rads etc, so it is not that easy to get in.

The program has season tickets to the rangers, they take applicants out to eat for lunch 3 x week and have a budget of 45 bucks per person for lunch. I had filet mignon, the residents ordered 3 appetizers and 3 desserts!

The program director is great. The interns were awesome - the year I interviewed they were all really normal and had a fantasy football league together.

The schedule was awesome and the interns told me they often were out of there on non call days by 12 or 1. When you are on it is busy, but when you are not it sounded awesome.

Anyway that was a good one.

I disagree with tufts lemuel shattuck above. I would not recommend applying or interviewing there unless you HAVE to be in Boston. That place was like an insane asylum when i interviewed there and you have to commute to another hospital in rush hour traffic a few of the months as well.

Grand rapids michigan is a nice, chill program if you don't mind the weather. Sacred heart in spokane is awesome, if you don't mind being in spokane. Travel to my interview was $800! They treat you well, though.

Anyone have anymore info on Lemuel Shattuck Hospital?

 

[PCC108050]

Any changes or new thoughts over the past year?

 

[RestoreSight]

Any changes or new thoughts over the past year?

Still pretty accurate. If you have a region you want commented on that may focus the discussion. This thread probably belongs in the intern forum

 

[airplanes]

Ones I dont think ive seen mentioned in this thread are:

Legacy TY in Portland

Reading hospital TY, Reading, PA

Baptist TY or Prelim Med in Birmingham, AL. Essentially the same. Trade one wards for surgery, weekends off on everything but wards.

Virginia mason TY or Prelim Med in Seattle, WA. Medicine may be even cushier than the TY because of no surgery and easy wards.

 

[PCC108050]

Thanks for the reply guys. I'm looking at sytaying in the South-South East regions.

 

[tco]

Sorry for the bump, but what can you guys say about programs in the Midwest and Midsouth? I'm looking for low cost of living areas, if possible.

Thanks.

 

[qwerty89]

St Joes in Milwaukee. Q4 call on ward months. Admissions capped at 5 per call day. No admissions on non-call days. Therefore you can have days where you pre-round on only 2-3 or less pts.

St Lukes in Milwaukee as mentioned before. Even cushier