Army New Consolidated Pays - Army folk specifically.

[Neogenesis]

Have any of you Army folk signed for the new pay plan yet? With the old one, I would always sign early April for Jul 1 effective date. I know things are changing and haven't heard anything from the pay people at my current gig. So does anyone know when we sign or has anyone done it yet? And have they explained exactly how they are going to deal with the last 3 months of ASP that we already received back in October?

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[Homunculus]

I think they recoup it when everything resets to the new plan. I'm in the same boat as you-- will navigate this mess in the upcoming months for my july pay. good news is that I think it eliminates the old green weenie sneak attack of having to opt out of the oct bonus if you wanted to get out the following july. or, if you wanted that bonus, having to work until the following oct (who wants to ETS in October?)

I was going to wait until may to contact my special pays office. if you find out any details let us know.

--your friendly neighborhood procrastinating caveman

 

[SeminoleFan3]

I think they recoup it when everything resets to the new plan. I'm in the same boat as you-- will navigate this mess in the upcoming months for my july pay. good news is that I think it eliminates the old green weenie sneak attack of having to opt out of the oct bonus if you wanted to get out the following july. or, if you wanted that bonus, having to work until the following oct (who wants to ETS in October?)

I was going to wait until may to contact my special pays office. if you find out any details let us know.

--your friendly neighborhood procrastinating caveman

Does eliminate that loophole, but the first year you sign you have to sign a one year commitment (at least in Navy land); after that first year it's on autopilot. A colleague of mine was getting out this summer and couldn't sign because it would have obligated him until October instead of his July date.

 

[Homunculus]

this was sent out today. may be helpful to people.

--your friendly neighborhood FAQ posting caveman

 

[Mace1370]

Tangentially related, does anyone know what will happen to newly graduating residents? Right now we get the resident IP, but attending level IP doesn't start until October. This results in a period from July through September where we will not get any bonus at all, correct?

 

[turkish]

$8000 a year pay cut for me.

 

[Mace1370]

$8000 a year pay cut for me.

Why, are you not eligible for the new IP?

 

[turkish]

I'm an O4 at 11 years.

Currently, 916.96 monthly VSP is 11,000 annual. 20,000 annual ISP. 15,000 annual MASP. Total 51,000 in current "bonus pay".

New IP for my specialty is 43,000 annual, paid monthly.

Correct me if I'm missing something, please, because this is a slap in the face.

*Made a correction- ISP is 20,000 annually, not 25,000. Taxes make it difficult to remember the actual numbers.

Still, a $3,000 a year pay cut, even as DOD budget increases fairly dramatically. A bigger pie of which we get an even smaller slice.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I'm confused as to why they would slash special pay for med corps when the DoD budget just went up?

 

[turkish]

I'm confused as to why they would slash special pay for med corps when the DoD budget just went up?

To thin the herd.

 

[CitizenQ]

The new pay requires a year of "retainability." The year of retainability is only required at the initial eligibility determination, it seems.

Most people will start it in July when their first contract expires. The October contract money will be subject to recoupment through October.

Most people should be receiving similar pay, but mileage may vary. For people getting out in the next few years, it'll be a bump because bonus pay will be continued until separation without forfeiting the October bonus.

 

[backrow]

Tangentially related, does anyone know what will happen to newly graduating residents? Right now we get the resident IP, but attending level IP doesn't start until October. This results in a period from July through September where we will not get any bonus at all, correct?

My understanding is you will continue at your current rate, whatever that is, until eligible for the change 3 months after graduation.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm an O4 at 11 years.

Currently, 916.96 monthly VSP is 11,000 annual. 20,000 annual ISP. 15,000 annual MASP. Total 51,000 in current "bonus pay".

New IP for my specialty is 43,000 annual, paid monthly.

Correct me if I'm missing something, please, because this is a slap in the face.

*Made a correction- ISP is 20,000 annually, not 25,000. Taxes make it difficult to remember the actual numbers.

Still, a $3,000 a year pay cut, even as DOD budget increases fairly dramatically. A bigger pie of which we get an even smaller slice.

What is your new board certification pay? It should be much higher than your old BCP and make up for most of the gap.

 

[BlackFrancis33]

I found the attached very helpful. Sent by COL Murray today.

 

[BlackFrancis33]

I will say my favorite part is having to pay interest on the money I am being forced to pay back if I choose to pay over 12 months instead of as a lump sum. Cutting the gov't a check for 4-5K is going to really, really hurt.

 

[turkish]

I will say my favorite part is having to pay interest on the money I am being forced to pay back if I choose to pay over 12 months instead of as a lump sum. Cutting the gov't a check for 4-5K is going to really, really hurt.

Worth it to get the money without having to stay until Oct 1 my year of separation. Mostly worth it.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

I'm an O4 at 11 years.

Currently, 916.96 monthly VSP is 11,000 annual. 20,000 annual ISP. 15,000 annual MASP. Total 51,000 in current "bonus pay".

New IP for my specialty is 43,000 annual, paid monthly.

Correct me if I'm missing something, please, because this is a slap in the face.

*Made a correction- ISP is 20,000 annually, not 25,000. Taxes make it difficult to remember the actual numbers.

Still, a $3,000 a year pay cut, even as DOD budget increases fairly dramatically. A bigger pie of which we get an even smaller slice.

Not meant to be querulous, but your math is off:

2016:
VSP: 916.96 x 12 = 11,000
BCP: 291.66 x 12 = 3,500
MASP and ISP: 35,000
Total: $49,500

2017:
HPO-IP: 43,000
BCP: 6,000
Total: $49,000

The total deficit is $500. In the grand scheme of things its not much money, but I agree a slap in the face to have pay involuntarily reduced by any amount due to a new pay system that none of us asked for. It will be beneficial for most of us to make everything align with July, so I guess I'll look at the $500 deduction as the price for realigning so I don't get too mad.

Of note, once you hit 12 years service, reductions in the legacy VSP cause the legacy system and the new system to even out at $49,000 each. So at least it holds true to military form--senior officers make out ok, junior officers get the shaft.

I will say my favorite part is having to pay interest on the money I am being forced to pay back if I choose to pay over 12 months instead of as a lump sum. Cutting the gov't a check for 4-5K is going to really, really hurt.

I love that the Army decides to play Las Vegas loan shark and demands a 2.5% APR on a 12 month loan, which is more than twice the rate our own government gives out on a 12 month T-bill (which as of today was 1.02%). Looks like I'll be ponying up a 4 figure sum in early July as well.

 

[turkish]

Not meant to be querulous, but your math is off.

No, you're right. I didn't see the BCP changes when I made the first post, didn't realize it was changing for the better.

 

[Neogenesis]

I will say my favorite part is having to pay interest on the money I am being forced to pay back if I choose to pay over 12 months instead of as a lump sum. Cutting the gov't a check for 4-5K is going to really, really hurt.

This. I got the email the other day (haven't had a chance to get back and post), but the fact that we have to pay back with interest REALLY irritates me. Like someone else said, I'm just looking at it (and the minor $400/yr reduction in overall pay) as an acceptable price to pay to realign Oct bonus to July and not have to forfeit it in my last year.

 

[goodstuff33]

Having reviewed the document attached above it has become clear that following implementation of the new pay system, the onus is on the HPO to dictate when certain pays need to stopped or otherwise face recoupment. For example, take fellows who will be graduating now and will be entering into a higher ISP than their current one. Given the time requirements as stated, a new ISP cannot be initiated until at least three months has passed since graduation, assuming HPO is credentialed at MTF in the appropriate AOC at that time. Once the new ISP is initiated, the previous board certification essentially becomes invalid as it does not match and a stop payment for that pay will need to be implemented until board certified in the field for which new ISP was negotiated. For some, these specialty boards don't come back for some time (December in my case). The only benefit is this comes with one year obligation essentially which is payed concurrently with remaining ADSO so the staying till October thing becomes mute.

The bigger question for me pertains to current fellows who are not credentialed in their initial field at the hospital which they are training. The document emphasizes being credentialed. Does this mean years down the road I will be asked to pay back these costs?

Lastly, what about HPO pulled for operational billet? Will they need to put a stop payment during this time if they are not practicing (document states 40 or more hours a week) and credentialed at an MTF in their AOC. This certainly would be counter to retention which the document states is a reason for the change.

Let me know if I'm wrong in what I interpreted, but this new system I feel has the potential to cause some damage.

 

[Mace1370]

Having reviewed the document attached above it has become clear that following implementation of the new pay system, the onus is on the HPO to dictate when certain pays need to stopped or otherwise face recoupment. For example, take fellows who will be graduating now and will be entering into a higher ISP than their current one. Given the time requirements as stated, a new ISP cannot be initiated until at least three months has passed since graduation, assuming HPO is credentialed at MTF in the appropriate AOC at that time. Once the new ISP is initiated, the previous board certification essentially becomes invalid as it does not match and a stop payment for that pay will need to be implemented until board certified in the field for which new ISP was negotiated. For some, these specialty boards don't come back for some time (December in my case). The only benefit is this comes with one year obligation essentially which is payed concurrently with remaining ADSO so the staying till October thing becomes mute.

The bigger question for me pertains to current fellows who are not credentialed in their initial field at the hospital which they are training. The document emphasizes being credentialed. Does this mean years down the road I will be asked to pay back these costs?

Lastly, what about HPO pulled for operational billet? Will they need to put a stop payment during this time if they are not practicing (document states 40 or more hours a week) and credentialed at an MTF in their AOC. This certainly would be counter to retention which the document states is a reason for the change.

Let me know if I'm wrong in what I interpreted, but this new system I feel has the potential to cause some damage.

I think we are waiting to see how this will play out. I am currently a resident and will be a civilian fellow next year. My current special pay person assures me that I will get the bonuses 3 months after I graduate.

Furthermore, the current wording for the resident IP contract states that you must be a resident to receive it. Well, I'll be a fellow for those 3 months prior to the higher IP kicking in. Does that mean I won't get my resident pay for those 3 months? The same special pay person assures me that I will get resident pay during that time.

Seems like we have to take a lot on faith and will have no recourse if they turn around and say "well, the contract you signed says so and so..."

 

[Homunculus]

Having reviewed the document attached above it has become clear that following implementation of the new pay system, the onus is on the HPO to dictate when certain pays need to stopped or otherwise face recoupment. For example, take fellows who will be graduating now and will be entering into a higher ISP than their current one. Given the time requirements as stated, a new ISP cannot be initiated until at least three months has passed since graduation, assuming HPO is credentialed at MTF in the appropriate AOC at that time. Once the new ISP is initiated, the previous board certification essentially becomes invalid as it does not match and a stop payment for that pay will need to be implemented until board certified in the field for which new ISP was negotiated. For some, these specialty boards don't come back for some time (December in my case). The only benefit is this comes with one year obligation essentially which is payed concurrently with remaining ADSO so the staying till October thing becomes mute.

The bigger question for me pertains to current fellows who are not credentialed in their initial field at the hospital which they are training. The document emphasizes being credentialed. Does this mean years down the road I will be asked to pay back these costs?

Lastly, what about HPO pulled for operational billet? Will they need to put a stop payment during this time if they are not practicing (document states 40 or more hours a week) and credentialed at an MTF in their AOC. This certainly would be counter to retention which the document states is a reason for the change.

Let me know if I'm wrong in what I interpreted, but this new system I feel has the potential to cause some damage.

as a fellow you should be credentialed in your initial residency specialty. when you transition to the new system from the old year to year system you pay a prorated amount to sync your obligation years. in your case when you are board certified in your new specialty when you sign up for the "new" bonus you should not have to turn off your old one-- they special pays person should do that for you.

the 40 day thing is not going to fly. this would kill BDE surgeons and the operational/admin muckety mucks at admin jobs at region/OTSG/FORSCOM/etc. this is either not going to be enforced or there will be a caveat to operational/deployed physicians.

--your friendly neighborhood enjoying his income tax exclusion and SDP caveman