Net Worth at age 55

[emergentmd]

I never thought I would spend so much on my kids, but it just turned out this way. If you have young kids or do not have kids, this is a factor you need to account for.

I have 3 kids all in private schools (relatively cheap given the options) - 40K/yr for all 3
All 3 in club sports - 30k/yr.

This is not accounting for all of the other stuff they buy. I am guessing all in, its 100k/yr before even calculating the cost of just feeding them.

My goal has always been never to touch my retirement. Let my IRAs grow and back door into Roth so I do not have to do any withdraws.

Get my RE income get to 300+K which would keep my lifestyle where it is today when kids are out of college which will be when I hit 60. This way everything including my RE appreciates. That 300K/yr will account for inflation as rental prices will go up.

Once they all are out of HS, I can really think about retiring as no more parent duties other than visits/phone calls.

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[triggermaster]

I never thought I would spend so much on my kids, but it just turned out this way. If you have young kids or do not have kids, this is a factor you need to account for.

I have 3 kids all in private schools (relatively cheap given the options) - 40K/yr for all 3
All 3 in club sports - 30k/yr.

This is not accounting for all of the other stuff they buy. I am guessing all in, its 100k/yr before even calculating the cost of just feeding them.

My goal has always been never to touch my retirement. Let my IRAs grow and back door into Roth so I do not have to do any withdraws.

Get my RE income get to 300+K which would keep my lifestyle where it is today when kids are out of college which will be when I hit 60. This way everything including my RE appreciates. That 300K/yr will account for inflation as rental prices will go up.

Once they all are out of HS, I can really think about retiring as no more parent duties other than visits/phone calls.

I spend even more because my kids’ school is more than twice that price. It’s kind of a bummer to not save or spend more, but it’s the choice I made. I spend less than I otherwise might on cars/housing/trips and I’ll have to work an extra couple of years if I want to have the same amount of savings at my retirement age plus 2. It’s fine with me. Hopefully they make use of their educational opportunities. Who knows?

 

[pgg]

I had kids relatively early (when I was age 22-26) so their peak costs in high school and college came earlier in my career, compared to those who have kids later.

In the big picture, $500K in expenses when I was age 40-50 had a greater impact on my lifetime savings, than $500K in expenses when I was in my 50s or 60s would have.

Of course, turning 50 with all kids grown and through college, is a nice place to be. All downhill from here.

 

[LowWafer8]

This poll seems to contradict the common statistic that physicians don't even make the top 5 of careers with high frequency of millionaires. Are anesthesiologists outliers among docs?

 

[sevo00]

This poll seems to contradict the common statistic that physicians don't even make the top 5 of careers with high frequency of millionaires. Are anesthesiologists outliers among docs?

Those polls are ******ed

 

[GassYous]

This poll seems to contradict the common statistic that physicians don't even make the top 5 of careers with high frequency of millionaires. Are anesthesiologists outliers among docs?

Many of the physicians I know make over a million a year

 

[Bryan O’Blivion]

This poll seems to contradict the common statistic that physicians don't even make the top 5 of careers with high frequency of millionaires. Are anesthesiologists outliers among docs?

I suspect that people posting in response represent only those who are happy disclosing their financial situation in an open forum. You probably aren’t going to see too many people writing about pulling from their retirement to make their car payment, being upside down on their mortgage, and hoping the $312 in their checking account will cover their cc minimum payment and gasoline.

 

[LowWafer8]

Many of the physicians I know make over a million a year

I meant NW, not income. You can make $1M and be worth less than nothing. Isn't this poll for NW?

 

[sloh]

This poll seems to contradict the common statistic that physicians don't even make the top 5 of careers with high frequency of millionaires. Are anesthesiologists outliers among docs?

The perk of anesthesia is you guys get to actually read and educate yourselves about finance behind the drapes. Lots of this financial education goes in one ear and out the other when you hear about it as a premed and trainee. It’s not until the rubber hits the road (making attending money and all the financial obligations truly come to bear), and you immerse yourself in the information does it start to stick very well. Anesthesiology also self-selects for physicians who are more practical, don’t care much to be in the spotlight and be the “hero.” Make hay while the sun shines, when you’re off you’re off, financial independence.

 

[LowWafer8]

The perk of anesthesia is you guys get to actually read and educate yourselves about finance behind the drapes. Lots of this financial education goes in one ear and out the other when you hear about it as a premed and trainee. It’s not until the rubber hits the road (making attending money and all the financial obligations truly come to bear), and you immerse yourself in the information does it start to stick very well. Anesthesiology also self-selects for physicians who are more practical, don’t care much to be in the spotlight and be the “hero.” Make hay while the sun shines, when you’re off you’re off, financial independence.

The statistics also seem to indicate financial education doesn't help much to modify behaviour; some people love to save and others love to spend.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Many of the physicians I know make over a million a year

It's what you keep and save that counts

 

[GassYous]

I suspect that people posting in response represent only those who are happy disclosing their financial situation in an open forum. You probably aren’t going to see too many people writing about pulling from their retirement to make their car payment, being upside down on their mortgage, and hoping the $312 in their checking account will cover their cc minimum payment and gasoline.

Was not happy about disclosing. I debated a lot before posting my info as it's pretty easy to figure out who someone is. I would definitely prefer it to be in the private section. But I've gained a lot of knowledge from this forum and so that's why.

 

[neutro]

This thread gives me unnecessary anxiety

 

[pgg]

This thread gives me unnecessary anxiety

As you said, it's unnecessary

 

[BLADEMDA]

This thread gives me unnecessary anxiety

Why? If you simply work 2 days per week until age 65 the amount of money needed for retirement is a lot less. A low paying day time job will pay $2,000 per day x 2 days or $4,000 per week. 40 weeks x $4,000=$160,000 per year. As long as you have any decent level of savings/nest egg you should be able to semi-retire well before age 65.

 

[aneftp]

Why? If you simply work 2 days per week until age 65 the amount of money needed for retirement is a lot less. A low paying day time job will pay $2,000 per day x 2 days or $4,000 per week. 40 weeks x $4,000=$160,000 per year. As long as you have any decent level of savings/nest egg you should be able to semi-retire well before age 65.

Agree. There are so many places that need bodies especially 7-3 hours

My collegue is in his late 50s/early 60s. Still surfing has multiple beach condos and still works. Not ready to retire and he has second income with younger wife who makes like another 200k herself.

The other college also same/similar age has spent the last 3 months skiing in the the Rockies but the spouse wanted new 150k windows so he picks up extra shifts here and there. No kids to suppose they are finished with school.

It’s easy money. (If u are healthy) and both do them are healthy

57-62 is still too young to “retire” unless it’s causing u a lot of stress in ur life.

 

[emergentmd]

I have always worked and never missed a day of work in my life starting in HS. Unless I am not able to work, I will always be semi retired eventhough I am Fire now.

 

[kidthor]

My collegue is in his late 50s/early 60s. Still surfing has multiple beach condos and still works. Not ready to retire and he has second income with younger wife who makes like another 200k herself.

I'm in.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[finalpsychyear]

So happy to see people are doing well and on the right track. As i near 40, time is the most significant asset to me. Find that balance of maximizing income and investing without compromising the present moment and experiences. Most docs and esp gas docs with even some basic financial literacy will get to where they need to.

Being able to spend double what my wife and I do now and have a SWR of 3% would signal I have won the game but time is equally as important in my goals. I hope to be there by end of 2030 but the market will have to stay pretty good and the 2 future kids, house in the next 12 mo, wedding, may also make it more challenging but I'll cut from 50-60 hrs/wk to 20-25 at that point and 5 more years at PT should ensure I am past that sequence of return wrench.

 

[BLADEMDA]

FYI, the same guy who says SWR of 2.7% actually recommends 2.26% based on world wide stock/bond returns. He says the USA got "lucky" and is unlikely to see the same level of returns for the next 2 decades. Perhaps the huge national debt and sticky inflation of 2.8-3.0% will diminish returns? Personally, I will use up to a 2.5% SWR with initial years being less than 2.0. But, I think 2.5%-3.0% is likely perfectly safe for 30 years of retirement. As PGG will note, the USA is exceptional and comparing us to Argentina or Italy doesn't make sense. Please take into account that BEN FELIX is Canadian so views the USA returns going forward in a skeptical light. He thinks returns of 8%-10% on USA equities is unlikely going forward.

The 2% (!?) Rule for Retirement Spending | Rational Reminder 229​

 

[finalpsychyear]

FYI, the same guy who says SWR of 2.7% actually recommends 2.26% based on world wide stock/bond returns. He says the USA got "lucky" and is unlikely to see the same level of returns for the next 2 decades. Perhaps the huge national debt and sticky inflation of 2.8-3.0% will diminish returns? Personally, I will use up to a 2.5% SWR with initial years being less than 2.0. But, I think 2.5%-3.0% is likely perfectly safe for 30 years of retirement. As PGG will note, the USA is exceptional and comparing us to Argentina or Italy doesn't make sense. Please take into account that BEN FELIX is Canadian so views the USA returns going forward in a skeptical light. He thinks returns of 8%-10% on USA equities is unlikely going forward.

The 2% (!?) Rule for Retirement Spending | Rational Reminder 229​

Frankly i think we r getting ridiculous in ever decreasing swr rate. You may as well have a fixed dollar amount you withdraw till u run out of money. So for younger docs say 50 yo at retirement just build a nest egg of 4m and withdraw 130k plus social security at 62.

 

[Dr. Rude]

At current real TIPs yields, a 30 year inflation adjusted SWR of 3.5ish % is attainable with ZERO risk

 

[finalpsychyear]

At current real TIPs yields, a 30 year inflation adjusted SWR of 3.5ish % is attainable with ZERO risk

Yes exactly. So reach fire based on that swr and maybe part time for 5 years after to negate sequence of return risk and 99% ull day with multiples of ur principal

 

[Dr. Rude]

Yes exactly. So reach fire based on that swr and maybe part time for 5 years after to negate sequence of return risk and 99% ull day with multiples of ur principal

Except right NOW TIPs yields are the most attractive that they have been for about 15 years. When you want to set up your ladder, they might not be as appealing.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Except right NOW TIPs yields are the most attractive that they have been for about 15 years. When you want to set up your ladder, they might not be as appealing.

Agreed. Nothing is set in stone. In my dream scenario I'd like to be withdrawing 3-4% of half my liquid NW at least the first decade and it will be variable depending on market returns as well. Once i go part time I'll also track how much of a cushion i have over my principal in year 1 being PT and after 5 years say I'm at 500k over principal then if i were to retire in year 6 of that scenario I'll always try to keep that cushion more or less plus a few years of expenses somewhere else as backup. I also don't think i'd actually pull the plug from PT work unless no mortgage or car payments in reality.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Are you guys looking at just living off of interest alone and leaving the principal mostly intact or do you anticipate spending down the principal over time?
It would be nice to be able to live off the interest but I suspect that would make your goal number much higher.
If you have kids and you have plans to leave them a nice inheritance, is there an age where you begin gifting the max amount allowed without tax implications per year so as to lessen the inheritance tax impact? I am a complete novice about that issue and don’t know the rules, but I believe there is some big advantage to that. Can anyone give a brief summary of what is best?

 

[nimbus]

Are you guys looking at just living off of interest alone and leaving the principal mostly intact or do you anticipate spending down the principal over time?
It would be nice to be able to live off the interest but I suspect that would make your goal number much higher.
If you have kids and you have plans to leave them a nice inheritance, is there an age where you begin gifting the max amount allowed without tax implications per year so as to lessen the inheritance tax impact? I am a complete novice about that issue and don’t know the rules, but I believe there is some big advantage to that. Can anyone give a brief summary of what is best?

Frequently asked questions on estate taxes | Internal Revenue Service

Find common questions and answers about estate taxes, including requirements for filing, selling inherited property and taxable gifts.

www.irs.gov

​

 

[caligas]

I think if you’re so conservative that you want to keep your draw under 3% you really should be considering an annuity for a chunk of your portfolio so you can feel free to spend more. Someone in their 60’s should be able to get around 4-5% with a SPIA.

The downsides are no inheritance and no inflation adjustment (for basic SPIA).

 

[finalpsychyear]

Younger motivated docs can easily pull 1 million on their income doing locums 80k a month is pretty reasonable with 8-10 weeks off.

So a young doc can hit 5 million in today’s market with net worth by age 40 if they do locums longer term. I don’t think the market is dying down.

So go grab the money. Make the money. Than let the money make more money for u (passive income). Than go spend the money is my motto.

Bro 55% of the poll doesn't think they'll have 5m by age 55 and your betting on gen z/alpha to do it by age 40.....

Gen Z for the most part is all about lifestyle. Most 30-32 yo newbie gas docs ain't working their tails off extra let alone for several years. This is a little bit of gen x/baby boomer mentality put into the current salaries going on. They don't think like that as a majority. Great in theory but only a minority will be doing this. My sibling who graduates this year keeps getting insta updates from her newly minted locums upper classman buying rolexes and porshe's for him and parents then realizing oh **** gotta pay taxes on that 1099 locums money... oops

Here's a more realistic scenario. Gas doc making 500-600k at age 30-32 who is socking away 200k including everything per year. That's also going to be a rare person doing that much but assume that's the case. Let's not forget loans and housing sucks for newer docs last few years so even more impressive doing 200k into the market. 10 years of 200k getting 7% is no guarantee and that puts that person at about 2.7m around 40 yo this is not inflation adjusted dollars.

 

[Splenda88]

Looked more closely at my numbers and I was a little off:
35y single at the the moment
~500k salary past few years doing academics
Across accounts approx:
600K in brokerage
250K in Roth
300K in 403B/457B (some Roth, some not)
So 1.15M with just these accounts.

I also have ~450K in a Defined Contribution pension plan (if I stay at this job for the rest of my career I won’t get SS); but a good chunk of it should be made available to me if I leave my job.

Have a house with a mortgage at 2.75%
School loans are paid off (had some help from parents with this).

Have an itch to buy a new car at the moment, still driving a 2013 Honda. Something about a Lexus IS500/LC500 stirs my old spirit.

You can pretty much semi retire (aka work part time) after 5 yrs if you live in MCOL/LCOL area.

 

[Splenda88]

If you’ve got nothing saved for retirement, you’re not alone.

Nearly 30% of Americans have $0 saved for retirement, per recent data from personal finance website GOBankingRates. Another 33% have less than $50,000 saved.

66% of Americans have less than $50,000 saved.

That is scary.

 

[hiltxan]

I've always thought physicians are too risk-adverse. Maybe it's innate and that's why we chose medicine as a safe career. Financially I've always taken risks. I'm mid 30s so have been out of fellowship for about 4 years now. I do have to admit I probably had a more fortunate start. No debt after schooling (parent's help). Wife worked in a decent paying job 60-200k/yr over 15 years. Also had the stock market run and low interest rates on my side.

Bought an investment property during medical school with wife's income. Bought a house for residency and rented the extra rooms out so basically covered our mortgage and expenses. I was then able to invest all residency, fellowship and wife's salary during an incredible stock market run. We lived paycheck to paycheck and invested everything. Always thought the idea of an emergency fund was unnecessary since we always had income either from rentals or salary. Plus if we ever needed it we could sell our stocks or take a loan from the house.

Finally bought our home in a VHCOL and again took advantage of the equity from our rentals for down payment and the low interest rate. We bought at the top of our budget in 2020 with a 2.75% mortgage and now living comfortably since the mortgage locked in not only the rate but was essentially a hedge against inflation as our salaries increased but monthly housing expenses did not. Still living paycheck to paycheck after maxing out retirement contributions since we invest everything extra from salaries and rentals. The emergency fund now is our brokerage account which can cover much more than had I just set aside a set amount of cash 10 years ago.

The truly wealthy are those who utilize leverage and borrow heavily. Why pay for a new car in full when instead I got a loan at 2%. There's no reason for me to ever pay off my mortgage early. The other rental mortgages were all refinanced to 2.75%. Never sold any stocks or mutual funds but our cash flow is such that we would just decrease our contributions if we had a large purchase or vacation coming up. When interest rates were low we just borrowed HELOCs and loans for solar panels and home improvements.

Now we have around 2m+ in property equity (after factoring mortgages) and 2m+ in brokerage/retirement accounts. I'm not sure if those graduating now are able to replicate to this success but my advice still stands: take smart risks and debt early on in your career. I always cringe when people want to be debt free especially early on in your careers. Make your money work for you, compounding growth is key and time in the market beats timing the market.

 

[anaesthetic]

I've always thought physicians are too risk-adverse. Maybe it's innate and that's why we chose medicine as a safe career. Financially I've always taken risks. I'm mid 30s so have been out of fellowship for about 4 years now. I do have to admit I probably had a more fortunate start. No debt after schooling (parent's help). Wife worked in a decent paying job 60-200k/yr over 15 years. Also had the stock market run and low interest rates on my side.

Bought an investment property during medical school with wife's income. Bought a house for residency and rented the extra rooms out so basically covered our mortgage and expenses. I was then able to invest all residency, fellowship and wife's salary during an incredible stock market run. We lived paycheck to paycheck and invested everything. Always thought the idea of an emergency fund was unnecessary since we always had income either from rentals or salary. Plus if we ever needed it we could sell our stocks or take a loan from the house.

Finally bought our home in a VHCOL and again took advantage of the equity from our rentals for down payment and the low interest rate. We bought at the top of our budget in 2020 with a 2.75% mortgage and now living comfortably since the mortgage locked in not only the rate but was essentially a hedge against inflation as our salaries increased but monthly housing expenses did not. Still living paycheck to paycheck after maxing out retirement contributions since we invest everything extra from salaries and rentals. The emergency fund now is our brokerage account which can cover much more than had I just set aside a set amount of cash 10 years ago.

The truly wealthy are those who utilize leverage and borrow heavily. Why pay for a new car in full when instead I got a loan at 2%. There's no reason for me to ever pay off my mortgage early. The other rental mortgages were all refinanced to 2.75%. Never sold any stocks or mutual funds but our cash flow is such that we would just decrease our contributions if we had a large purchase or vacation coming up. When interest rates were low we just borrowed HELOCs and loans for solar panels and home improvements.

Now we have around 2m+ in property equity (after factoring mortgages) and 2m+ in brokerage/retirement accounts. I'm not sure if those graduating now are able to replicate to this success but my advice still stands: take smart risks and debt early on in your career. I always cringe when people want to be debt free especially early on in your careers. Make your money work for you, compounding growth is key and time in the market beats timing the market.

The Romney Plan for College Affordability

Born on third base, doling out financial advice, unsure if new grads can replicate. Classic.

Hate to break it to you, but you “probably” having “a more fortunate” start is like Bezos saying his parents injected a small loan of a million dollars to “help him a bit” with his business.

“Financially, I’ve always taken risks.” Lol.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The Romney Plan for College Affordability

Born on third base, doling out financial advice, unsure if new grads can replicate. Classic.

Hate to break it to you, but you “probably” having “a more fortunate” start is like Bezos saying his parents injected a small loan of a million dollars to “help him a bit” with his business.

“Financially, I’ve always taken risks.” Lol.

Let me give you some real advice: the key to being able to retire by age 55 or 50 is to work hard during your 30's. That means saving money early on in your career by really hustling as an Anesthesiologist. "Time in the market" means don't take that low paying AMC job when there are better offers. Your time working needs to be compensated at a fair level. I think AMCs really hurt your chances of an early retirement; the combination of a low salary with tiny 401k contributions are detrimental to FIRE. You want maximum salary early on your career with maximum contributions to retirement plans.

You should seek out those jobs in areas where the compensation is high even if that first job isn't going to be your last job. By putting in 5-10 years in that less desirable area you are setting yourself up for a comfortable retirement.

 

[GoBeers]

I've always thought physicians are too risk-adverse. Maybe it's innate and that's why we chose medicine as a safe career. Financially I've always taken risks. I'm mid 30s so have been out of fellowship for about 4 years now. I do have to admit I probably had a more fortunate start. No debt after schooling (parent's help). Wife worked in a decent paying job 60-200k/yr over 15 years. Also had the stock market run and low interest rates on my side.

Bought an investment property during medical school with wife's income. Bought a house for residency and rented the extra rooms out so basically covered our mortgage and expenses. I was then able to invest all residency, fellowship and wife's salary during an incredible stock market run. We lived paycheck to paycheck and invested everything. Always thought the idea of an emergency fund was unnecessary since we always had income either from rentals or salary. Plus if we ever needed it we could sell our stocks or take a loan from the house.

Finally bought our home in a VHCOL and again took advantage of the equity from our rentals for down payment and the low interest rate. We bought at the top of our budget in 2020 with a 2.75% mortgage and now living comfortably since the mortgage locked in not only the rate but was essentially a hedge against inflation as our salaries increased but monthly housing expenses did not. Still living paycheck to paycheck after maxing out retirement contributions since we invest everything extra from salaries and rentals. The emergency fund now is our brokerage account which can cover much more than had I just set aside a set amount of cash 10 years ago.

The truly wealthy are those who utilize leverage and borrow heavily. Why pay for a new car in full when instead I got a loan at 2%. There's no reason for me to ever pay off my mortgage early. The other rental mortgages were all refinanced to 2.75%. Never sold any stocks or mutual funds but our cash flow is such that we would just decrease our contributions if we had a large purchase or vacation coming up. When interest rates were low we just borrowed HELOCs and loans for solar panels and home improvements.

Now we have around 2m+ in property equity (after factoring mortgages) and 2m+ in brokerage/retirement accounts. I'm not sure if those graduating now are able to replicate to this success but my advice still stands: take smart risks and debt early on in your career. I always cringe when people want to be debt free especially early on in your careers. Make your money work for you, compounding growth is key and time in the market beats timing the market.

Any doctor who received help in having no student loans and two real estate assets coming right out of training will do very well in life.

 

[GassYous]

I cringe when people want to be debt free when they could simply invest their parents and wife's money

 

[Splenda88]

Any doctor who received help in having no student loans and two real estate assets coming right out of training will do very well in life.

Not necessarily true. He/she could have started buying Rolex (es), Porsche 911 and flying 1st class to Europe/Asia 3-4x a year. As Dave Ramsey says, personal finance is 80%+ behavior

 

[anonperson]

I've always thought physicians are too risk-adverse. Maybe it's innate and that's why we chose medicine as a safe career. Financially I've always taken risks. I'm mid 30s so have been out of fellowship for about 4 years now. I do have to admit I probably had a more fortunate start. No debt after schooling (parent's help). Wife worked in a decent paying job 60-200k/yr over 15 years. Also had the stock market run and low interest rates on my side.

Bought an investment property during medical school with wife's income. Bought a house for residency and rented the extra rooms out so basically covered our mortgage and expenses. I was then able to invest all residency, fellowship and wife's salary during an incredible stock market run. We lived paycheck to paycheck and invested everything. Always thought the idea of an emergency fund was unnecessary since we always had income either from rentals or salary. Plus if we ever needed it we could sell our stocks or take a loan from the house.

Finally bought our home in a VHCOL and again took advantage of the equity from our rentals for down payment and the low interest rate. We bought at the top of our budget in 2020 with a 2.75% mortgage and now living comfortably since the mortgage locked in not only the rate but was essentially a hedge against inflation as our salaries increased but monthly housing expenses did not. Still living paycheck to paycheck after maxing out retirement contributions since we invest everything extra from salaries and rentals. The emergency fund now is our brokerage account which can cover much more than had I just set aside a set amount of cash 10 years ago.

The truly wealthy are those who utilize leverage and borrow heavily. Why pay for a new car in full when instead I got a loan at 2%. There's no reason for me to ever pay off my mortgage early. The other rental mortgages were all refinanced to 2.75%. Never sold any stocks or mutual funds but our cash flow is such that we would just decrease our contributions if we had a large purchase or vacation coming up. When interest rates were low we just borrowed HELOCs and loans for solar panels and home improvements.

Now we have around 2m+ in property equity (after factoring mortgages) and 2m+ in brokerage/retirement accounts. I'm not sure if those graduating now are able to replicate to this success but my advice still stands: take smart risks and debt early on in your career. I always cringe when people want to be debt free especially early on in your careers. Make your money work for you, compounding growth is key and time in the market beats timing the market.

Physicians may be a bit more risk averse but reading through this thread most seem to be doing pretty well.

You're in a great situation but you have a couple of huge advantages that are not applicable to everyone:

1. Having a working spouse who looks like they were earning six figures for a significant period of time. Just contributing to the max 401k without a match over 15 years would probably give $500k if invested in a total market fund. Even more with a match.

2. Being debt free from school. That is a huge albatross without any of the tax benefits like with a mortgage.

3. Rental income is good but not risk free. What happens with a non paying tenant especially during COVID rules with not evictions. You could be stuck for months before an eviction and then deal with the aftermath of a trashed unit.

 

[GoBeers]

Not necessarily true. He/she could have started buying Rolex (es), Porsche 911 and flying 1st class to Europe/Asia 3-4x a year. As Dave Ramsey says, personal finance is 80%+ behavior

He doesnt even need to work to be doing better than half of society.

His wife has been making 6 figure income in her 20s. And she already bought them two rental properties before he turned 30.

He is extremely fortunate and doing well.
Many of us say becoming a doctor isn't worth it financially but if you can do it with zero student loans, then it absolutely still is.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I've always thought physicians are too risk-adverse. Maybe it's innate and that's why we chose medicine as a safe career. Financially I've always taken risks. I'm mid 30s so have been out of fellowship for about 4 years now. I do have to admit I probably had a more fortunate start. No debt after schooling (parent's help). Wife worked in a decent paying job 60-200k/yr over 15 years. Also had the stock market run and low interest rates on my side.

Bought an investment property during medical school with wife's income. Bought a house for residency and rented the extra rooms out so basically covered our mortgage and expenses. I was then able to invest all residency, fellowship and wife's salary during an incredible stock market run. We lived paycheck to paycheck and invested everything. Always thought the idea of an emergency fund was unnecessary since we always had income either from rentals or salary. Plus if we ever needed it we could sell our stocks or take a loan from the house.

Finally bought our home in a VHCOL and again took advantage of the equity from our rentals for down payment and the low interest rate. We bought at the top of our budget in 2020 with a 2.75% mortgage and now living comfortably since the mortgage locked in not only the rate but was essentially a hedge against inflation as our salaries increased but monthly housing expenses did not. Still living paycheck to paycheck after maxing out retirement contributions since we invest everything extra from salaries and rentals. The emergency fund now is our brokerage account which can cover much more than had I just set aside a set amount of cash 10 years ago.

The truly wealthy are those who utilize leverage and borrow heavily. Why pay for a new car in full when instead I got a loan at 2%. There's no reason for me to ever pay off my mortgage early. The other rental mortgages were all refinanced to 2.75%. Never sold any stocks or mutual funds but our cash flow is such that we would just decrease our contributions if we had a large purchase or vacation coming up. When interest rates were low we just borrowed HELOCs and loans for solar panels and home improvements.

Now we have around 2m+ in property equity (after factoring mortgages) and 2m+ in brokerage/retirement accounts. I'm not sure if those graduating now are able to replicate to this success but my advice still stands: take smart risks and debt early on in your career. I always cringe when people want to be debt free especially early on in your careers. Make your money work for you, compounding growth is key and time in the market beats timing the market.

Half the poll won't be in the 4-6m range until 55 and your there at 35 yo with 4m NW.

Not trying to crud on your success but it's mainly due to your wife and parents that your at this position at 35 yo.

I would guess your NW would only be 1-1.5m at best if you've only been an attending for 4 years which is in line with others even if your were a supersaver putting away 250k/yr post tax investing and getting 7 percent returns only breaks 1m barely.

Either way happy for your success I just don't think it applies to most cases.

 

[Splenda88]

He doesnt even need to work to be doing better than half of society.

His wife has been making 6 figure income in her 20s. And she already bought them two rental properties before he turned 30.

He is extremely fortunate and doing well.
Many of us say becoming a doctor isn't worth it financially but if you can do it with zero student loans, then it absolutely still is.

Indeed he is, but could have also squandered his "fortune". I have seen it.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Let me give you some real advice: the key to being able to retire by age 55 or 50 is to work hard during your 30's. That means saving money early on in your career by really hustling as an Anesthesiologist. "Time in the market" means don't take that low paying AMC job when there are better offers. Your time working needs to be compensated at a fair level. I think AMCs really hurt your chances of an early retirement; the combination of a low salary with tiny 401k contributions are detrimental to FIRE. You want maximum salary early on your career with maximum contributions to retirement plans.

You should seek out those jobs in areas where the compensation is high even if that first job isn't going to be your last job. By putting in 5-10 years in that less desirable area you are setting yourself up for a comfortable retirement.

For a young 30-32 yo putting away 100k mostly tax deferred utilizing 401k, hsa, roths sounds enormous which it is. Your not going to be finding super savers in this age range esp with the generation change that even do that when the money isn't accessible for what feels like forever (59 ish).

A rare bird will add more in taxable accounts after maximizing tax deferred but most will be ready to reward themselves which is normal and they quickly acclimate to the new 500k+ salary. Housing at crazy rates, loans, cars for the vast majority eat away at the what could have been with that potential capital.

We had some attendings my last year of residency try and convince us to try the live like a resident for 3-5 years adjusted a bit to your debt amounts. I think I ended up being the only one to do it for that long so its just not common in this society people are naturally spenders first.

 

[BLADEMDA]

SPENDERS rarely FIRE prior to age 55. SAVERS can FIRE if he/she wants to by age 55.

How does FIRE work?​

Followers of the movement typically save around 50% to 75% of their annual income until they’ve amassed enough money to let them retire early.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[finalpsychyear]

SPENDERS rarely FIRE prior to age 55. SAVERS can FIRE if he/she wants to by age 55.

How does FIRE work?​

Followers of the movement typically save around 50% to 75% of their annual income until they’ve amassed enough money to let them retire early.

I think just shooting for 100k inclusive of all retirement accounts and matches should be the bare minimum. Just getting 7 percent returns in 20 years your already at 4m and somewhere between 50-55 yo. On a 500k gas doc salary its not even a question. Maybe people just don't know these 101 basic things and i really feel bad that they don't. Maybe people don't want us to know and work till we break.

 

[triggermaster]

I think just shooting for 100k inclusive of all retirement accounts and matches should be the bare minimum. Just getting 7 percent returns in 20 years your already at 4m and somewhere between 50-55 yo. On a 500k gas doc salary it’s not even a question. Maybe people just don't know these 101 basic things and i really feel bad that they don't. Maybe people don't want us to know and work till we break.

I guess the SDN average income is like $700k, but what’s the actual average, $450?

 

[finalpsychyear]

I guess the SDN average income is like $700k, but what’s the actual average, $450?

Since this is being posted in the gas forums I am basing it on 500k newbie offers. I'm sure vets make more. My sibling is going academic and in the 450s range cause they want experience and slower pace. Plenty in her class getting 600k+. No reason to lie or inflate.

 

[bigfootisreal]

For the more seasoned folks here, what has been your sweet spot in terms of percentage of income saved every month or year to allow for FIRE?